Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Brightfame52]

You and Don Fortner are both reading your conclusion into Galatians 2:16.

The verse says, "we have believed... that we might be justified." It does not say, "we believed because we were already justified."

Christ alone is the ground of justification. Faith adds no merit. But Paul still presents faith as the means by which justification is received, not merely the moment it is discovered.

Its received when discovered, yet it was there and accomplished before received and discovered. It was a established fact at Christ death which was testified to by His resurrection. All who are Justified will be given Faith to believe it

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52

A word of caution: Scripture repeatedly warns teachers not to add to, subtract from, or distort God's Word to support a doctrine.

If we find ourselves changing the plain meaning of a text rather than submitting our doctrine to the text, we should be afraid. "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation" (James 3:1).

Paul warned against those who "corrupt the word of God" (2 Cor. 2:17), and Peter warned that some "wrest" the Scriptures "unto their own destruction" (2 Pet. 3:16).

Every teacher will stand before God and give an account for how he handled His Word. That should cause all of us to approach Scripture with humility, care, and fear.

If anyone is guilty of corrupting the word of God its you , so be ye warned

 

[KingJ]

.Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Such are justified by Christ, whose iniquities he bore; that is, suffered and satisfied for in his death: to this harmonize those writings of the apostle Paul , "He was delivered for our offences, and raised again for our justification," Rom. 4: 25

This is a legal fact while ungodly ! 34

Isaiah 53:11 says the Servant will “justify many,” but it does not define the timing or manner apart from the rest of Scripture.

Paul is clear elsewhere: “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God” (Romans 5:1) and “a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28).

You are reading Isaiah 53:11 in isolation and importing a completed justification before faith framework into it. But Isaiah does not say people are justified while remaining unbelieving. That conclusion is being added to the text, not drawn from it.

Christ’s bearing of iniquity is the ground of justification, agreed. The question is whether Scripture ever separates that accomplishment from faith in its application, and Paul consistently does not.

 

[KingJ]

Of course its the elect, thats an unlearned comment

Calling something “unlearned” is not an argument. Ephesians 2:2 to 3 describes “you” as those who were dead in sins and following the world. Paul does not say “you were elect therefore exempt from that condition.” You are importing Ephesians 1:4 into Ephesians 2 in a way the text itself does not state.

It says both, you deny the blood Justification

No one denies justification is by Christ’s blood. The issue is your exclusive reading of Romans 5:9 as if it excludes faith, when Paul also says “being justified by faith” in Romans 5:1. You are creating a contradiction Paul never makes.

Christs resurrection testifies that the ones He Christ was delivered up for their trespasses are Justified.

You are again assuming what you are trying to prove. The resurrection confirms Christ’s work was accepted, but Scripture does not say people are personally justified while still unbelieving. You keep asserting “therefore” without a verse that actually states that conclusion.

Its received when discovered, yet it was there and accomplished before received and discovered. It was a established fact at Christ death which was testified to by His resurrection. All who are Justified will be given Faith to believe it

You are redefining justification into a timeless fact that exists prior to faith, then inserting that definition back into every text. Paul never says justification is “accomplished and merely discovered later.” He says “being justified by faith” (Romans 5:1) and “justified by faith without works” (Romans 3:28). Your system changes the meaning of those statements rather than submitting to them.

 

[KingJ]

If anyone is guilty of corrupting the word of God its you , so be ye warned

I take accusations about teaching falsely seriously, as all of us should. Scripture warns teachers to handle the Word carefully, and that should make every one of us cautious before God.

With that in mind, here are some concerns regarding the way you are handling certain texts, specifically where your conclusions appear to be driving the interpretation rather than arising from the text itself.

You are guilty of:

1. Importing conclusions into the text

You often read theological conclusions like “justified before faith” or “elect only” into passages where those ideas are not stated.

2. Inserting “elect” into texts that do not specify it

You repeatedly assume “the elect” as the subject of passages where the text simply says “man,” “world,” or “you,” without any limitation in the immediate context.

3. Isolating verses from the wider context

Texts like Romans 5:9 or Isaiah 53 are treated as standalone definitions while ignoring nearby or parallel statements such as Romans 5:1 and Galatians 2:16.

4. Redefining key biblical terms

“Justified by faith” is repeatedly redefined as “made aware of justification,” even though the text never defines it that way.

5. Creating false contradictions

Paul’s statements about justification by faith and Christ’s blood are treated as competing ideas, rather than complementary truths within the same doctrine.

6. Moving the definition after each response

When a text is addressed directly, the meaning of justification shifts to preserve the prior conclusion rather than testing the conclusion against Scripture.

7. Assuming what must be proven

Claims like “justified before faith” are asserted as established fact, then used as the interpretive lens for all other passages without independent textual proof.

---------------

I have outlined specific concerns about your interpretive method from Scripture. If you believe I am in error, please respond with equal specificity from Scripture and show where my reading is wrong.

 

[Brightfame52]

Isaiah 53:11 says the Servant will “justify many,

Yes and how He would Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Again in Vs 12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[Brightfame52]

Calling something “unlearned” is not an argument.

Its not to the unlearned. I have given my arguments since the OP

 

[Brightfame52]

I take accusations about teaching falsely seriously,

You should, thats what you doing, be warned