who are those that came out of the great tribulation????

[TheWaytoGo]

This is a bit out of sequence -- But -- you're right -- no rapture is mentioned in the book of Revelation, but it Is in Thessalonians and Matt 24. Or at least a description Of that event. The rapture / up-gathering of the Church / Will take place. It's just the question of When. I've been a strong pre-trib person but now leaning towards a pre-wrath or mid-trib rapture.

so -- continue on.

I believe the Holy Spirit is leading you to the truth! After 46 years of believing pre-trib as taught (why not, it seemed so far off, and Revelation so confusing, and I won't even be alive by then, right?). I didn't even know there were any other Rapture beliefs than Pre. A poster challenged me to prove pre-trib to him, and so I decided to do my own study, for the first time, when the lockdown began. Praying just for the guidance of the Holy Spirit and with constant redirection of my mind from the pre-conceived interpretations received, I attacked it scientifically/logically like my studies in nursing school, and by reading everything in context, and biblically, by comparing Scripture with Scripture. Beyond the shadow of any doubt, the Rapture/Resurrection is during the sixth seal, and near the end of the 7-years, just before He pours out His Wrath. The same way he rescued Noah and Lot, then immediately destroyed the evildoers, He will do the same way after the Trib. A huge sticking point for pre-tribbers is being taught the Tribulation and His Wrath are the same. In the Tribulation, His Children are being killed (the devil is doing it), during God's Wrath, after the Rapture, only those who are evil are destroyed.

I believe the Pre-Trib theory is Satan's greatest last days deception. Jesus told us when He's Coming so we wouldn't be taken by surprise, or lose faith when the persecution starts.

 

[TheWaytoGo]

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

One of the features that John points out is the length of the waiting: 'How long?' and 'wait a little longer'. From this, I think it's safe to say that they represent people who have been martyred in every age including the time of John and of the churches he was writing to, not just a short season of persecution.

Since the Saints are present at the opening of the fifth seal, they are from the time period of that seal (the persecutions and martyrdom of the earlier Saints were already acknowledged by Christ in the letters to the 7 churches). This is a new collection of Saints, whom God is just now recognizing. The fact that the killing will continue, the same way they were killed, also places these future martyrs after the fifth seal and specifically during the second half of the 7-year Trib:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:​

Just as the martyrs above were slain for their their "testimony" , so the verse below confirms they are all Tribulation Saints being beheaded by the A.C. after the middle of the Tribulation:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.​

 

[Sue D.]

I believe the Holy Spirit is leading you to the truth! After 46 years of believing pre-trib as taught (why not, it seemed so far off, and Revelation so confusing, and I won't even be alive by then, right?). I didn't even know there were any other Rapture beliefs than Pre. A poster challenged me to prove pre-trib to him, and so I decided to do my own study, for the first time, when the lockdown began. Praying just for the guidance of the Holy Spirit and with constant redirection of my mind from the pre-conceived interpretations received, I attacked it scientifically/logically like my studies in nursing school, and by reading everything in context, and biblically, by comparing Scripture with Scripture. Beyond the shadow of any doubt, the Rapture/Resurrection is during the sixth seal, and near the end of the 7-years, just before He pours out His Wrath. The same way he rescued Noah and Lot, then immediately destroyed the evildoers, He will do the same way after the Trib. A huge sticking point for pre-tribbers is being taught the Tribulation and His Wrath are the same. In the Tribulation, His Children are being killed (the devil is doing it), during God's Wrath, after the Rapture, only those who are evil are destroyed.

I believe the Pre-Trib theory is Satan's greatest last days deception. Jesus told us when He's Coming so we wouldn't be taken by surprise, or lose faith when the persecution starts.

Again, this is out of sequence, but, the pre-trib position is Not a deception of satan. Far from it There are still the last seven years of the 70yrs of Daniel coming.

 

[TheWaytoGo]

Again, this is out of sequence, but, the pre-trib position is Not a deception of satan. Far from it There are still the last seven years of the 70yrs of Daniel coming.

Of course. That's called the Tribulation and it's for all of Abraham's seed. The Pre-Trib position claims the Church is not part of Abraham's seed and will be secretly taken off the earth before Jesus Second Coming, and that the Jews will become Christians and get killed by God's Wrath for 7 years.

 

[Dave M]

I have herd some say those that came out of the tribulation were the 144,000 sealed Jews and because you are a Jew if you are sealed with Gods seal. And since the book of revelations is a book in figurative language the 144,000 is not the actual number.

THe more I study the book of revelation the more I realize we might not be supposed to figure it all out. We should focus on what is known for certain,, and this is to Love GOd with all out hear and our neighbor as our self

 

[DanielVision]

Yes, people Will be saved during those 7 years of tribulation. It's for the Jewish people who had formerly Not accepted Him as their Messiah. And I also think that those who had not rejected Jesus Christ but were agnostic will still have opportunity to accept Christ as Savior. But they will be martyrs.

Was looking back at your first post. You've answered your own question. Revelation 7 -- the 144,000 Jews who were sealed -- evangelizing the rest of the Jews and those who haven't previously rejected Christ.

Only 12,000 of the 144,000 are from the tribe of Judah, and Judah is the only tribe that is Jewish. All Jews are Hebrews but not all Hebrew are Jews. The kingdom of Israel was split into two kingdoms. The north is the house of israel and the south is the house of Judah. The house of Israel was taken captive by Assyria and the house of Judah was taken by Babylon. The house of Judah came back home to build the wall; as you can read about in Ezra and Nehemiah. The house of Israel never came back. In Jeremiah 3 we see that God gives the house of Israel a certificate of divorce. Jesus comes here and says that He only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. God's law says that a woman is not allowed to marry another man unless he dies then she is free to marry another man. So Jesus came here and died so that the house f Israel can legally remarry. Then He rose from the dead s that the Israel can be reunited as 1 and Israel can marry God.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Only 12,000 of the 144,000 are from the tribe of Judah, and Judah is the only tribe that is Jewish. All Jews are Hebrews but not all Hebrew are Jews. The kingdom of Israel was split into two kingdoms. The north is the house of israel and the south is the house of Judah. The house of Israel was taken captive by Assyria and the house of Judah was taken by Babylon. The house of Judah came back home to build the wall; as you can read about in Ezra and Nehemiah. The house of Israel never came back. In Jeremiah 3 we see that God gives the house of Israel a certificate of divorce. Jesus comes here and says that He only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. God's law says that a woman is not allowed to marry another man unless he dies then she is free to marry another man. So Jesus came here and died so that the house f Israel can legally remarry. Then He rose from the dead s that the Israel can be reunited as 1 and Israel can marry God.

Interesting... How did you come to your conclusion?

 

[DanielVision]

Interesting... How did you come to your conclusion?

Well 1 kings, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, Ezra and Nehemiah. Theres a lot of scripture to dive into for this.. Paul mentions this in Roman's 7:2-3.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Well 1 kings, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, Ezra and Nehemiah. Theres a lot of scripture to dive into for this.. Paul mentions this in Roman's 7:2-3.

I see nothing in Romans 7 that has to do with your theory

 

[DanielVision]

I see nothing in Romans 7 that has to do with your theory

Roman's 7:2-3
2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

1 Corinthians 7:39
A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord

Dueteronomy 24:1-4
If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him(A) because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce,(B) gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the Lord. Do not bring sin upon the land the Lord(C) your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Jeremiah 3:8
8 I gave faithless Israel(V) her certificate of divorce(W) and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear;(X) she also went out and committed adultery.

Matthew 15:24
I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Deuteronomy shows part of the law that God gave Israel about marriage and divorce. Jeremiah shows the certificate of divorce given to Israel. Matthew shows where Jesus says he only came for the House of Israel. Paul's writings show his knowledge of the law and what God's sacrifice did for us.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Roman's 7:2-3
2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

1 Corinthians 7:39
A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord

Dueteronomy 24:1-4
If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him(A) because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce,(B) gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the Lord. Do not bring sin upon the land the Lord(C) your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Jeremiah 3:8
8 I gave faithless Israel(V) her certificate of divorce(W) and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear;(X) she also went out and committed adultery.

Matthew 15:24
I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Deuteronomy shows part of the law that God gave Israel about marriage and divorce. Jeremiah shows the certificate of divorce given to Israel. Matthew shows where Jesus says he only came for the House of Israel. Paul's writings show his knowledge of the law and what God's sacrifice did for us.

Ok It took me a while but I got what you are saying...My head is too far off today. I'll discuss this later if I can....

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Interesting... How did you come to your conclusion?
[/QUOTE
Sir Would you mind giving me your scriptures for this? I'm kind of back here. At least for a while.