What was the final thing...

[ushalk]

zulu that is awesome. you are right we should never be afraid of pain or death for the love of our lord. for there is nothing that man can do to us. but the lord can throw us into eternal damnation. true death. all man can do is put us to rest until the lord is ready to take us home with him.


wow that really is some powerful writing zulu.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I know you are right. I wasn't happy with what I wrote down, I couldn't seem to get the right message down. I read again, what I wrote. I still think though, that Jesus knew full well of the verse when He cried out the prophetic words, My God, My God. I can't imagine how hard it was for Him, to carry our sins and the burden of the cross, the mocking, the jeering and then to be separated from His Father, in whom He always placed His trust. He is my Brother, my Hero and I love Him deeply. The pain must have been incredible, just the pain of sin alone.
Yours in Christ and Amenixie

Am with you Pixue and so are many others. The great thing about that reference to Psalms is that rather indicating someone being down in the dumps and dwelling on it, it is something that turns that suffering around and indicates the person saying it recognizes the triumph of victory in that moment.

 

[ushalk]

i definately think that jesus knew about the verses in psalm 22. but do you really think that with all the pain he was in and everything that was happening to him he stopped and said oh yeah let me fullfill the prophecy in psalms. i seriously doubt it and he was hurt and heart broken because of the things that were going on and when his father turned away from him because of our sins he asked why.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I think words have meaning and the particular choice of words exactly matching the beginning of a Psalms cannot be mere coincidence. Was He pain? Absolutely. How much more so the importance of each word spoken.
Psalms would be something very familiar to faithful Jews and so I do not think the words spoken would not have escaped them as mere coincidence either.

 

[David39]

God sees the sins of man kind.

There are many scriptures that say that God saw and or sees the sins of man. I'm writing a paper on that subject so I'll post later what they are. Ask me if you need them sooner.

 

[ushalk]

yes god sees sin. but seeing sin and facing sin is two different things. to face it means to allow it into the heavens. that cant happen. but i would love to see the scriptures which you are talking of.

 

[David39]

Can God look on sin?God looking at sin?

Did God Forsake Christ
on the Cross
part1

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Did God really turn his back on Christ while he was hanging on the cross? Or perhaps I should ask if God forsook his son at the time of death.
My belief is that he didn't.
<o>
</o>Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
If God will never leave nor forsake us, then why do we think he would leave his only begotten Son?
<o> </o> There are many ideas and thoughts on what the answer is to the question. One thought told me by a minister was that God, being a father he loved his son so much that he just couldn't bear to see his only begotten son Jesus dying on the cross. He just couldn't bear to look so he turned away.
<o> </o>
On the human level we might feel the same way and therefore we might turn our head the other way so as not to see his suffering but I personally do not see this as being the truth of the matter with Christ.
<o> </o>
Another answer and by far the most popular that I have heard is that God is a Holy God and being Holy, He can not look on sin. Since Jesus was carrying the sins of the world, then the father could not look at the shame that Jesus carried. I do agree that the number of sins were probably in the multiplied trillions and that many more but again I must say, I do not believe this the correct answer either. The answer is found in;
John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
The words I want to call to your attention are, “he (God the Father) gave.”

Consider with me what happened in the first chapter of Genesis. In verse 3 we read; “And God said let there be light: and there was light,” and in the 4th verse he says, “and God saw the light, that it was good." The words I want to draw your attention to are, "and God saw," and "it was good." These words at least tell us that God does see. In this case it is a good, but he does see. On the third day God caused the dry land to appear, and the waters were gathered together. He called the land Earth, and the waters were called Seas. After he did these things, the Bible tells us in the 10<SUP>th</SUP> verse, --- “and God saw that it was good.” After the grass, herbs, and trees were brought forth, Genesis 1:12 again says, --- “and God saw that it was good.” By the end of the third day, the Bible tells us three times, "and God saw." Gen. 1:14-18 states that the sun, moon, and stars were created and there too, “God saw.” After God created the fish and the foul and after man was created, Gen. 1:36 says; “and God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening in the morning were the sixth day.” In the first book of Genesis, The bible on seven occasions tells us: “and God saw.”
<o> </o>
We do not find it hard to believe that God can see the good things of this world or the good in good men but that seems to be where a lot of people draw the line. My purpose in telling that seven times “God saw,” is too show the God does have eyes and he does see.

In the next 1600 years mankind went downhill as far as he could go. God's description of what was going on is found in Genesis 6:5. “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
<o> </o>
What God saw was so bad that Genesis 6:6-7 says; “and it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; ---for it repented me that I have made them."
<o> </o>
What could God have seen that could have possibly caused him to now say he would destroy the very things that in Genesis 1 God refers to 7 times saying, “and God saw that it was good." It was certainly not the things that he created, it was the behavior of man and the deeds that he did. Here we see that God also sees the bad as well as the good.
<o> </o>
In the book of Amos, we see what God is going to do to, ---“my people <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Israel</st1lace></st1:country-region>;---.” Chapter 9:2 "though they dig to hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down: 3. And though they hide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hidden from my site at the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent and he will bite them.
<o> </o>
<o> </o>
Amos 9:4 --- "and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good."
Amos 9:8 "behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy them from off the face of the earth; saying that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord."
Proverbs 15:3 "The eyes of the Lord are in everyplace beholding the evil and the good."
Proverbs 15:21 "For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and he pondereth all his goings."

This chapter tells of the many things the wicked do in their cheating and wickedness, but Job 24:23 tells us; "though it be given him to be in safety, whereon he resteth; yet his eyes are upon their ways."
It seems that even after the flood that destroyed the earth,
Gen 6:5 ---“wickedness of man---,” that there again is a lot of bad things going on that God is keeping his eyes on.
<o> </o>
Psalms 14:2-3 "The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are altogether become filthy: there is none that doth good, no not one." God can see what we were doing wherever we are.
Job 34:21-22 "for his eyes are upon the ways of man and he seeth all his goings. 22. There is no darkness, nor shadow of death, where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves."
<o> </o>
While it is true that we cannot hide from God's eyes,
2 Chronicles 12:6-7 "whereupon the princes of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Israel</st1lace></st1:country-region> and the king humbled themselves; and they said, the Lord is righteous. 7. “And the Lord saw that they humbled themselves," the word says, "I will not destroy them but I will grant them some deliverance; and my wrath shall not be poured out upon <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Jerusalem---</st1lace></st1:City>." We can repent of our ways and God will forgive us.
<o> </o>
God told Jonah to go to <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Nineveh</st1lace></st1:City> and tell them,
Jonah 3:4.
"Yet 40 days and <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Nineveh</st1lace></st1:City> shall be overthrown." Did God see the evil they did? The people believed God and proclaimed a fast and repented of their ways. Jonah 3:10. “And God saw their works, and that they turn from their evil ways; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
<o> </o>
Even though God knows that we are a sinful people, he still is looking for those who want to serve him. I don't say that we must be sinless, but we must be willing.
II Chronicles 16:9. "For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him.--- God is looking and waiting for his people to turn to him for their needs.
<o> </o>
God does see the ways of man whether they be good or bad. It is not conceivable to me to say that God could not look on the sins of the world that Christ bore when he hung on the cross. If God could see the “wickedness of man was great in the earth” and saw that it was so bad thathe decided to destroy mankind in the flood, then I believe that He can see the sins that were placed on Christ on the cross too.

 

[ladylovesJesus]

God had to turn his back on Jesus at that time as He could not look at all the sin that was placed on Jesus for us.

Question: "Why did Jesus say, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'"



Answer: “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46). This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It has been difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was “forsaken” by God. It is certain that God approved His work. It is certain that He was innocent. He had done nothing to forfeit the favor of God. As His own Son - holy, harmless, undefiled, and obedient - God still loved Him. In none of these senses could God have forsaken Him.



However, Isaiah tells us that “he bore our griefs and carried our sorrows; that he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities; that the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him; that by his stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:4-5). He redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). He was made a sin-offering, and He died in our place, on our account, that He might bring us near to God. It was this, doubtless, which caused His intense sufferings. It was the manifestation of God’s hatred of sin, in some way which He has not explained, that Jesus experienced in that terrible hour. It was suffering endured by Him that was due to us, and suffering by which, and by which alone, we can be saved from eternal death.



In those awful moments, Jesus was expressing His feelings of abandonment as God placed the sins of the world on Him – and because of that had to “turn away” from Jesus. As Jesus was feeling that weight of sin, He was experiencing separation from God for the only time in all of eternity. It was at this time that 2 Corinthians 5:21 occurred, “God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.” Jesus became sin for us, so He felt the loneliness and abandonment that sin always produces, except that in His case, it was not His sin – it was ours.

Recommended Resource: Why Believe in Jesus?: Who He Is, What He Did, and His Message for You Today by Tim LaHaye.

From: gotquestions.org

Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, [ Some manuscripts Eli, Eli] lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" [ Psalm 22:1]

God bless :rainbow: :rose:

 

[David39]

Acknowledgement

Yes Ushalk, I stand corrected. The scripture, Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
should not have been used. Thank you. David39

 

[ushalk]

it has been a while since i have been on the sight here. some very good discussion going on here. the love of the lord for us i believe we can not fully comprehend. i know that i do not completely comprehend it. we know that he died for us and went through alot of pain and suffering so that we can receive eternal life.

 

[dpmartin]

Tho there are interesting points here, the Father did not turn from, He gave. If someone gives something they let go of it to another. When Jesus said why have you forsaken me, He witnessed that the Father let go and gave freely, His Word. In order to have Life as Jesus taught, do we not have to let go of this life? The Lord our God dose not require anything of us that He has not done Himself. He gave His Word, (that which He Loves so much and holds so dear), through the flesh in the world and into the earth that all that receive His Word may have Life, Life everlasting, Life, He gives of Himself.

 

[ushalk]

this is very true dpmartin. great post and thank you.