What If I'm Born Gay?
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Loyal
God's Word tells us that 'for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God' -- no one is righteous -- no not one.
1 Corinthians 15 -- 1st of all that Jesus Christ died on the cross, was buried and rose again , according to Scripture. The blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross is 'sufficient' -- no good works on our part is needed.
Belief in the heart and confession by mouth -- the Lord Jesus -- and a person is 'saved'.
Acknowledge to God through Jesus Christ that you Need Him. that you realize that you, personally Have sinned. Tell Him that you accept His gift of salvation for you, personally. Thank Him for your salvation. And then a peace will enter your heart. That's what happened with me. That peacefullness is from the Holy Spirit's coming to indwell you.
No one on this earth will Ever be good enough to warrant God's salvation. Being willing to Die for someone -- a nice thought -- but won't secure anyone's salvation. The only 'giving up of His life' was that of Jesus Christ on the cross and His rising from the dead For us / in our place.
God doesn't judge Anyone for their 'goodness' as to being acceptable For His salvation.
1 Corinthians 15 -- 1st of all that Jesus Christ died on the cross, was buried and rose again , according to Scripture. The blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross is 'sufficient' -- no good works on our part is needed.
Belief in the heart and confession by mouth -- the Lord Jesus -- and a person is 'saved'.
Acknowledge to God through Jesus Christ that you Need Him. that you realize that you, personally Have sinned. Tell Him that you accept His gift of salvation for you, personally. Thank Him for your salvation. And then a peace will enter your heart. That's what happened with me. That peacefullness is from the Holy Spirit's coming to indwell you.
No one on this earth will Ever be good enough to warrant God's salvation. Being willing to Die for someone -- a nice thought -- but won't secure anyone's salvation. The only 'giving up of His life' was that of Jesus Christ on the cross and His rising from the dead For us / in our place.
God doesn't judge Anyone for their 'goodness' as to being acceptable For His salvation.
Loyal
Well, if you consider the scriptures as coming from God himself, then Christ who happens to be God mentioned it many times in the Bible.
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.
Loyal
Salvation is of "grace" through "faith". (Eph 2:8) It has nothing to do with any actions a person does, Even if a person lays down his own life to be burned, and does not "have Love" (God is love) it does absolutely no good!
1Co 13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Loyal
Jesus said....
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Those who are always saying to not judge do not understand scriptures, but twist them to their own destruction.
Jesus did NOT say to never Judge, but to judge according to righteousness.
Mat 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Now we know exactly what Jesus meant when it comes to judging. Make sure if you are judging someone that you are not doing the same thing they are because you are going to judged with the same judgment!!
Take out the log in your eye first them you will be able to see clearly to take the spec out of your brothers eye!
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Loyal
#366 posts and counting and the topic was summed up near the start.
No one is born Gay!
No one is born Gay!
Loyal
If a person reads the first chapter of Romans -- around verse 26 or so. It explains quite clearly the nature Of homosexual desires. And as it Is true that man Can be 'loving' towards other men -- a Lot of 'us' find it very 'unnatural' when men get chummy in public. Most of the time, ya don't even see heterosexual couples getting 'chummy ' in public. There's the nice friendly 'hi' or 'goodbye' hug / kiss at an airport, etc. But that feels Natural. It Looks 'natural. That's the way God planned it.
Loyal
This verse comes from a very interesting chapter
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 (KJV)
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Especially the word LOVE. - Where is the word love we may ask, in the KJV is uses Charity, whereaas the NKJV uses LOVE
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 (NKJV)
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
I have 27 Bible translations and just about every one uses the word LOVE, the KJV uses Charity instead of Love.
Wanting to know the translated difference I checked the Greek meaning from Strong's Talking Greek and Hebrew dictionary...
Greek Strong's Number: 26
Greek Word: ἀγάπη
>>>> Transliteration: agapē
Phonetic Pronunciation:ag-ah'-pay
Root: from <G25>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 1:21,5
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Feast, Love, Love feasts
English Words used in KJV:
love 86
charity 27
dear 1
charitably+ <G2596> 1
feast of charity 1
[Total Count: 116]
from <G25> (agapao); love, i.e. affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast :- (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
What is interesting is that the word Charity used in the KJV, is the same Strong's definition for LOVE [Word ref: G26] - agape Love, Divine Love
Because Word Ref G26, agape Love, Divine Love, is from G25 agapao meaning affection (love), or benevolence (charity) it appears in translation the KJV first chose charity but changed this to Love, agape Love, Divine Love to be the true meaning for future translation.
I include this as an example of the need to look for and understand Greek and Hebrew words, especially key words, as this has been discussed in other threads on the forum.
Loyal
So true Sue,
We are Saved by Grace through Faith, but...
Here is the section which includes the verse you mentioned, which should be read in full and taken in the heart.
Romans 1:16-32 (NKJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Bless you.
Member
Not sure what point you're making about the situation in the OT, i was talking of what Christ said about riches, and i've heard it said so many times by those trying to justify their wealth that its not the possession of Riches thats the problem its their attitude towards it, in Matthew 6 vs 19-24 Christs says "do not store up treasure on Earth... for where your treasure is, your heart will be also", the very act of being rich shows your attitude towards money, you're keeping it for yourself and thats where your Heart will be, not with God but with your riches, in Mark 4 vs 19 Christ speaks of "The cares of this world and the deceitfulness of Riches,...... choke the word and it becomes unfruitful", riches buy us comfort, prestige and power, they are the Mammon of this World , and as Christ said, you can't serve God and Mammon, in Luke 6 vs 24 Christ says, "But woe unto you that are Rich, for you have received your consolation", which is further illustrated in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man where Abraham says in Luke 16 vs 19-31," ... the rich man died and was buried, And in Hell he lifted up his eyes",... why did he go to Hell, well the answer would seem to be in vs 25 " Son, remember that in your lifetime you received good things, and Lazarus Evil things, but now he is comforted, and you are tormented", and the Rich young ruler was told to give all he had to the poor which he couldn't do, for Christ loved him and knew that the possession of Riches will be an almost insurmountable barrier to entering heaven, "who then can be saved" asked the Disciples, following the tradition of regarding the Rich and powerful as being blessed by God, to which Christ replied, "with God all things are possible",...... i fear that you have been deceived, like many, into following the belief that its the attitude to riches thats the problem, its not, its the possession, for how can a Christian say they Love God and their Neighbour when owning wealth in a World where hundreds of millions of people are hungry, sick and homeless, for its in the face of the Hungry, the sick and the homeless that we see Christ, and he asks us the question, which is more important, our wealth , or our Love of God?.
...... you know i really didn't think i would be having to debate the issue of Discrimination on a Christian Forum, but there we go, and before i start could i just say that in my experience, and current medical thinking, most gay people are born that way, for sure there are perhaps some that would choose that particular lifestyle for a variety of reasons, but for the vast majority there is no choice, to them their Sexuality is as "normal" as ours, anyway even if we take those that choose to be Gay, are you really defending the right of discrimination based upon choice, so what if a medical practitioner chose to discriminate against Christians, or Muslims, or even Jews that had converted to Judaism, would that be OK with you, or what if sections of society were discriminated against on the basis of their Political allegiance, or where they chose to live, forget Christs commandment to Love and treat others as yourself, have you any idea of the sort of society you would create, we have just Commemerated the 24th anniversary of the fall of Srebrenica in Bosnia, where the Bosnian Serbs massacred over 7,000 men and boys just because they were Muslim, you really have to understand human nature and history, what i'm proposing in arguing against any discrimination of any particular group isn't"Leftist Socialim" its what i see as the Word of God and common Human Decency.
Member
Guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree, you seem confident in taking on the mantle of God in deciding who will and who won't be saved, i leave that to God, i have met people who dedicate their lives to the helping of those in need who don't believe in god, and i have met many Christians who are rich and comfortable and seem confident in their salvation, who are the Sheep and who are the Goats, i leave that for God to decide.
Member
Seems to me that is for Christ to say and not us, and as for Love and Compassion always speaking the truth, you really believe that, if someones heart is breaking, perhaps a little dose of your "truth" would be enough to send them over the edge, is that the Love and Compassion you feel Christ would want you to express?.
Member
So you test yourself, i wonder how many of us fail, how many of us classify ourselves with the condemned, according to christ, not very many...... or could it just be that what they're lacking is LOVE, they're going through the motions, but have failed to understand that at the heart of our faith must be LOVE, or we are lost,.....again we're gonna have to agree to disagree, for me the meaning is simple, the crowd, in righteous indignation at her sin were ready and willing to pass judgement, Christs words were aimed at the crowd, the good people so intent on fulfilling the law, but lacking any notion of compassion and mercy, and the message as i see it is clear, we as sinners ourselves are not competent or commanded to pass judgement on others, ....... i guess then that none of us have yet been "Born of God", for we all, including the woman, will continue to sin,
Member
We could go round in circles on this but i'll just say that when Christ condemned the Rich, the disciples were astonished because to them , as Jews, riches were a sign of favour from God, hence their reply, if the rich can't be saved, then who can, to which Christ replied, with God everything is possible, i put no constraints on God, ....... you seem to have a very Black/White picture of salvation, a bit like crossing the "t's" and dotting all the "i's", seems to me that our lives on this Earth aren't like that they are messed up, mixed with different emotions and without an agreement of what is sin and what isn't, does the Love we show for others Trump some of the sins we commit, whether we reopent or not, will our genetic inheritance, our background, our life experiences all be taken into account, what did Christ mean when he said "to whom much is given, much will be expected", my view of salvation, like my view of life in general is one of different shades of Grey, seems to me that none of us are white or black, somewhere on that spectrum we all fall, and whether that point is sufficient for us being saved is for God to decide...... and yes i agree, no body gets to the Father but through Christ, but the question is, how do we get to Christ, there we disagree for i see many different routes.
Member
Why do you call Homosexuals/GLBT a crowd?, for they are surely like you and me, made in the image of God, i fear your prejudice may be clouding your reasoning, ... and sexual sins aren't a "Hot topic" with me, what i find distressing is the attitude of some members of the Christian Community towards Gay people who appear to hate the sinner as much as they hate the sin,...... and i have never claimed that "all sin is sin" its just that i see Christs priorities as more concerned with Riches and indifference to the poor and marginalised than with the "Wickedness of Sodomy",...... but whatever the priority it seems to me we must approach the sinner with Compassion and Mercy, not condemnation and prejudice.
Member
True, i wouldn't say many times, i think it was 5 times in the NT, but if you were to add up the number of times Christ talks of Riches, justice and Compassion for those in need, or if you look at the teaching of the prophets in the OT on the same subject, then perhaps you would come to some understanding of Gods priorities,...... ?,
Member
I've got to disagree with you there Brother Paul, in my life i've known 6 openly Gay men, including my son, and i hope you'll believe me when i tell you that none of them chose thatb life, two died because of it, one was murdered, one died from AIDS, two others had spells in prison because of it, i read that suicide rates amongst Transgender and Gay youngsters are 3 times more than their Heterosexual counterparts, they face discrimination Hate and abuse on a daily basis and many seek to hide of surpress their homosexuality because of it, and as i've said current medical opinion is firmly of the view that people are in the main born homosexual, to them its perfectly natural, there really is no debate on the issue, except perhaps in certain religious circles where its sometimes deemed a "Lifestyle Choice", but who would choose that Lifestyle, seems to me that only Masochists or those with severe mental issues would do so, and some of the comments on these boards only re-enforce that opinion.
Loyal
If you hate someone you will just compromise what you believe to make them happy is that what you think? No where in scripture does it says to speak your own words or compromise truth in any way, it says if any man speaks let him speak the very words of God!!
1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak, as the words of God. If any minister, let him do it, as of the power which God administereth: that in all things God may be honoured through Jesus Christ: to whom is glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen. (DRB)
Member
... and which of us, being miserable sinners, feel assured that we are can judge with "righteous judgement", for even Christ when called "Good master" replied, "who calls me good, no one is good except my Father in heaven", seems to me that we're in danger of falling into the trap of the Pharisee convinced of his own righteousness and not the Publican who wouldn't even raise his eyes to heaven, or do you feel that you have indeed taken the "log" out of your own eye to see clearly to judge others, because i definitely don't.
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