What If I'm Born Gay?

[Sue D.]

@Rad -- Have you looked in the book of Romans? chapter 1 vs 26 "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. vs 27 Likewise also the men,leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust fo r one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. vs 28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;" And That is a description of homosexuality.

 

[Sue D.]

Seems to me that Christ condemned both the owning of riches and those that owned them, "do not store up treasure on the Earth, for where your treasure is your heart will be also, Matthew 6 vs 19-21,..... then we have the parable of"The rich man" in Mark 10 vs 23-25, "How hard shall they that have riches enter into the Kingdom of God, ..... it is easier for a Camel to pass through an eye of a Needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven"...... and in Luke 6 vs 24, Woe to you who are rich for you have received your consolation" illustrated in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16 vs 19-31 where Abraham says to the Rich man in Hell" in your lifetime you received good things ... and now are tormented",..... also Luke 19 vs 8-9. its only after Zacchaeus has given away nearly all his wealth that Jesus says, "Today has Salvation come to this house", and in the parable of the Sower Christ talks of the "deceit of riches" choking the word and preventing it from coming to fruition, but this is so off thread, perhaps if you wanted to discuss this open a new topic,...... as to the Bakers rights, do you feel that the right to discriminate is a valid practice within society, what if i wanted to discriminate against Jews because i regarded them as sub human, would preventing me from doing that be an act of "leftist socialism", seems to me you're treading a very dangerous path far from far from Christs Command to love others and treat them as we would want to be treated,....... as for not keeping Company with sinners who are "brothers", who decides who is the sinner, and what if the sin is concealed, i would rather follow Christs command "Judge not, lest you be judged", and "let him without sin cast the first stone", and leave the judgement of the sinner to God,..... as far as i know its not a crime to be greedy, Lustful, envious, hateful and Rich, not a crime to ignore the sufferings of others and to participate in a global economic system, based on plunder, selfishness and corruption that is destroying Gods creation, no it seems that many "Mortal Sinners" are free to do as they please, ....... as for "Christians" calling for the killing of Gays, heres a few references , from the US, in Africa in countries such as Tanzania and Uganda the killing and persecution of Gays is widespread in part owing to the influences of so called "Evangelical" Pastors preaching on the subject, Pastor calls for killing gays to end AIDS
Conservative Christian Pastor Calls for Executing All Gay People by Christmas Day and not all of these "Christians" are advocating killing Gays, but their rhetoric is so hate filled that you sorta feel if push cane to shove they'd really have no problem with it 10 Most Wildly Anti-Gay Preachers in America

I just clicked into those articles -- those pastors make it sound like homosexual people don't have a soul. Like 'they' are a flu bug that needs to be stopped. Every human being has a soul that is saveable. Share Gospel unto salvation with Everyone -- including lesbians / homosexuals. They are part Of 'everyone'.

It's the Love of money / riches / that gets a person in trouble.

 

[KingJ]

Seems to me that Christ condemned both the owning of riches and those that owned them, "do not store up treasure on the Earth, for where your treasure is your heart will be also, Matthew 6 vs 19-21,..... then we have the parable of"The rich man" in Mark 10 vs 23-25, "How hard shall they that have riches enter into the Kingdom of God, ..... it is easier for a Camel to pass through an eye of a Needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven"...... and in Luke 6 vs 24, Woe to you who are rich for you have received your consolation" illustrated in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16 vs 19-31 where Abraham says to the Rich man in Hell" in your lifetime you received good things ... and now are tormented",..... also Luke 19 vs 8-9. its only after Zacchaeus has given away nearly all his wealth that Jesus says, "Today has Salvation come to this house", and in the parable of the Sower Christ talks of the "deceit of riches" choking the word and preventing it from coming to fruition, but this is so off thread, perhaps if you wanted to discuss this open a new topic,.

Abraham was rich, Job was rich, all Jews who tithed were promised riches. Rich is not the problem. Love of riches is. Jesus told the young rich man to sell all he had because money was his god. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle because a rich man who is in love with his money does not consider God. He wakes up in the morning and says ''what can I do today'', and not ''what does God want me to do today''.

as to the Bakers rights, do you feel that the right to discriminate is a valid practice within society, what if i wanted to discriminate against Jews because i regarded them as sub human, would preventing me from doing that be an act of "leftist socialism",

Discriminating against someone ''because of what they do'' is not on par with discriminating who they are. Hating black people is wrong. A black person had nothing to do with his color. Hating white people is wrong. Why people had nothing to do with their color. Hating a woman as man is wrong. A woman had nothing to do with being born who she is. Hating men is wrong. A man had nothing to do with being born as a man. Hating Jews is wrong. A Jew had nothing to with their family tree.

I like how the GLBT crowd throw want to belong to the same bracket as the above. It is hilarious. Choosing daily to go against the natural cause for which your body is created is not the same as being born a certain color.

If I do something that offends you, I should LEAVE you the HELL alone. If I don't, I am over riding YOUR FREE WILL. Leftist socialism.

But lets group racists and homophobes together, they the same. Let's also not differentiate between those who want to kill me and hate me (like racists do) with those who just hate my sin. Lets be 100% braindead in our reasoning. Skin color = Sodomy. Hating sin = hating sinner.

 

[Rad]

@Rad -- Have you looked in the book of Romans? chapter 1 vs 26 "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. vs 27 Likewise also the men,leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust fo r one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. vs 28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;" And That is a description of homosexuality.

I've never contested that Homosexuality is a sin, although i do wonder about the prominence its given by some Christians, Christ never mentioned it once, although he mentioned and condemned many other sins, among them riches, Greed, Hypocrisy, ignoring the sufferings of the poorest and marginalised, but not once Homosexuality,...... and it often seems that this condemnation of Homosexuality is fueled more by a hatred of Homosexuals themselves rather than the sin of homosexuality, and this Hatred of sinners has no place in the Christianity i practice.

 

[KingJ]

and how do we know who God is going to judge as "going to Hell",

I truly don't know what is so hard to understand. The bible talks of two types of people. For 4 000 years there was a separation in Hades of these two types. The one is a sinner who does not ever want to repent. The other is a sinner who does desire true repentance. One loves sin. The other hates sin. God wants those who hate sin with Him, because He also hates sin. He summarized His laws in ten commandments. The first 4 have to do with us loving Him directly. The next 6 with us loving Him by loving others. He says in these 6 that we love others by not stealing, killing, bearing false, adultery or coveting their goods. It does not say we love others by condoning their sin.

So, I can with confidence tell you that if you think unrepentant GLBT's will be in heaven, I can promise you that God and the repentant GLBT's will be in '''hell'''.

where is the mercy and compassion,

Where is the love of God? People hate God. He is compassionate and loving in that He creates an eternal home for all who don't want to be with Him. He could annihilate the wicked. He doesn't. Then He shows love and compassion to those who, like Him, hate the darkness, by separating them from those who don't.

 

[Rad]

I just clicked into those articles -- those pastors make it sound like homosexual people don't have a soul. Like 'they' are a flu bug that needs to be stopped. Every human being has a soul that is saveable. Share Gospel unto salvation with Everyone -- including lesbians / homosexuals. They are part Of 'everyone'.

It's the Love of money / riches / that gets a person in trouble.

...... and its this attitude together with societal attitudes that view any group as different, or discriminate against them, that has allowed some of the worst atrocities in history,..... my Christianity is founded on Compassion and Mercy, and i leave the question of salvation or otherwise to God.

Where does Christ say its the love of money, seems to me its just the fact of being Rich that is condemned, and the fact is, with all the need there is in this World, Gods world, why would any Christian keep their money and possessions,........ how could they stay rich when their neighbour is in such need, unless they love both the security and the things money can buy, and yet still try to claim they have the love of God , and their Neighbour, within them.

 

[KingJ]

and i can't help but wonder that if God /Christ finds Homosexuality so abhorrent why its never mentioned in any of the Gospels, surely a Sin that figures so highly in the "Degrees of Abomination" would be worthy of at least one mention,...

How many times is ''sexual relations with mother'' Lev 20:11 mentioned?

and thinking about it in a way i perhaps do repent, not of every sin individually, but saying the Lords prayer morning and night and reflecting on jus what a miserable sinner i am, and yeh i hate sin, i hate what we do to each other through our own selfish desires, what a Hell we've made of this world , how we're destroying creation and plunging headlong to destruction, each morning i think of having to face another day in this World, and try to adopt the motto, "if the Good Lord has given me another day in this World, then i'm gonna try my best to do some good with it", and i try, often not very successfully, but it seems to me that its in the trying , not the achieving , that we will be judged

Good to hear and we are in full agreement here :smile: .

 

[KingJ]

for example, my sister who for many years has suffered with Mental illness , separated from her husband, 3 years ago on May 9th 2016 he hanged himself in a wood in a town called Northampton, i can't describe the state my sister was in with two teenage sons and her own emotions to deal with, one day she found herself in town just wondering around, when she came upon a group of "Christians" proclaiming the Gospel and Christs Love, she spoke to one of them describing her torment and looking for some sort of comfort, "could my husband be in heaven she asked, No came the reply, hes in Hell!!, now the "Christian" may well have believed that, but was it Christian to voice that opinion, where was the mercy and compassion for someone already going through their own private Hell,....... i'm not advocating "saying nothing", my position is ,condemn the sin, but not the sinner, for who can say who gods mercy will encompass, whos to say that at the end of that rope her husband didn't seek repentance, and who are we to try to put limits on Gods forgiveness and love, be it for Suicides, Murderers or yes, even homosexuals..

Suicides have a lot more context to consider. The underlying evil in sinful acts is the intent / the motivation. It is 'Christians' who read scripture 'as is' with no discernment that would say ''suicide = murder = hell''. Murder never equaled hell. A murderer may have been stoned OT among the Jews, but they always had Psalm 51:17. So if that murderer was not ''sold out'' to murder, he may have repented and made it to heaven. A person who commits suicide is not sold out to ''murder''. Far from it. There is a debate to be had on whether a sane person who commits suicide always goes to hell. Granted the evidence does not look good, as God would always intervene before the act. The evidence points to them ignoring God or God not intervening for a reason.

But in your sister's case, from all my studying of scripture, I can say with full confidence that she is exempt. Being mentally handicapped places her in the same bracket as a child under 20. She is not accountable. Not able to be accountable. The unsaved in the world get this right. That is why they have hospitals for them. It is beyond me how some Christians who Paul says should discern better then the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9, get it wrong. So I am 100% in your space on this. Sorry for your loss!!

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings @Rad @KingJ @Sue D.

There is no doubt that homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord.
True Christianity cannot ever bend that rule to suit wishwashy modern churchianity.

However... we cannot apply this to the unbeliever.
Their issue is sin and their need is the Saviour.
For unbelievers we cannot label them as being condemned to hell for any particular sin.

I have a young nephew in his early 20's.
He has recently come out as gay.
He is not saved
He did not grow up in a Christian home.
He has grown up in a culture that says homosexuality is correct, loving and okay...
Waving a stick at him now regarding homosexuality , when he has no saving knowledge of Jesus would be futile.

What does he need..........He needs Jesus. He needs to be saved.
With the entrance of Salvation comes change and a turning away from sin

 

[Rad]

KingJ,...... haven't got the time to reply to your comments at the moment, but could i just ask you a question, are you assured of your own salvation as much as you seem assured of the damnation of others, and if you're not, can you call yourself a Christian?.

 

[KingJ]

KingJ,...... haven't got the time to reply to your comments at the moment, but could i just ask you a question, are you assured of your own salvation as much as you seem assured of the damnation of others, and if you're not, can you call yourself a Christian?.

I have answered this I post # 302. Can I ask that when you make accusatory statements like the underlined, you quote me.

 

[KingJ]

There is no doubt that homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord.
True Christianity cannot ever bend that rule to suit wishwashy modern churchianity. However... we cannot apply this to the unbeliever. Their issue is sin and their need is the Saviour. For unbelievers we cannot label them as being condemned to hell for any particular sin

Yes, they need a Savior. We all do. From Adam to the last man. But on this topic, we need to look at 1 Cor 5 properly for clarity.

1. The chapter starts off addressing the sin of 'incest'. It says in 1 Cor 5:1 that it is a sin that even pagans condemn. Paul did not stand up in front of the congregation and say ''it was reported that Angie stole some bread from the baker to feed her little baby. Please join me in harshly rebuking her and removing her form amongst us. This is a sin that even the pagans condemn.'' Think on this. Sin is sin and sin has degrees. 1 Cor 5 is not speaking to venial sinners. Paul literally writes ''it is a sin that even pagans condemn''.

2. Paul says in 1 Cor 5:10 that we can and must associate with those in grievous immoral sins. But not anyone called a ''brother'' who is in these sins. It says on 1 Cor 5:11 that we must not even eat with such a person.

3. Jesus never spoke to Christians or 'brothers' when He said ''you know someone by their fruits'' Matt 7:16. Jesus never said the OT law enforced on Jews was wrong. Jesus is God and God does not change. God ordained differing punishments for sin in the OT. Certain sins got one stoned to death, others burnt by fire, others excommunicated, others lashes, others warned.

4. Paul rebukes Christians who cannot discern better then the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9. We should grasp a self defense = no prison time. Pre meditated murder = 3 years. Murder = 25 years. Serial killer = 200 years.

5. God is impartial Acts 10:34. A person before or after the cross is still accountable for their sins. We have the ability to avoid mortal sins OT and NT. We have the ability to repent OT and NT. Repentance in the OT carried weight with God per Psalm 51:17. Repentance in the NT is what get's us a revelation of Jesus. IE Gets us saved. There is no ''saved'' and then we repent. That is partiality and God over riding free will. Abel did not murder. Cain did. God did not tell Cain to wait 2000 years for Jesus to come and then repent / receive faith / he will be washed by the blood of Jesus and then feel convicted of sin and magically desire repentance.

Conclusion:

Sin is sin and sin has degrees. The degree of sin one is in points to their love of sin. Saved or unsaved.

I have a young nephew in his early 20's.
He has recently come out as gay.
He is not saved
He did not grow up in a Christian home.
He has grown up in a culture that says homosexuality is correct, loving and okay...
Waving a stick at him now regarding homosexuality , when he has no saving knowledge of Jesus would be futile.

What does he need..........He needs Jesus. He needs to be saved.
With the entrance of Salvation comes change and a turning away from sin

There is truth to our environment affecting us. Scripture speaks to even the righteous falling if God does not speed up the last days Matt 24:22. But there is ''still'' a line to cross between venial and mortal sin. There is still a line to cross from thinking about sodomy and performing the act. Just as Jesus explains with adultery if we read Matt 5:28 with Matt 5:32 and Matt 19:9.

When I was in sexual sin, it was a nun who said I am going straight to hell that caused me to spend some personal time speaking to God. She prompted me to speak to God, which lead to my conversion. My meeting Jesus.

So whilst I agree that we need to show people the love of Jesus, we also need to ensure that this ''love of Jesus'' we show is accompanied by the truth of the need for repentance and daily examining ourselves / continuing in working out our salvation Phil 2:12. For this we discern mortal and venial sins.

Now a person in sin who wants their sin (especially if in mortal sin) is never going to see you telling them to repent as something sweet. Look at how when Jesus told the young rich man to go sell all he had, he left very sad.

I feel Christians today are too scared to offend anyone. Prov 27:6 makes it clear that a friend wounds us. But an enemy multiplies kisses.

 

[Rad]

We need to differentiate between discernment, self righteousness and sentencing. Judging for self righteousness is wrong. That is the context of Matt 7:1-5. But discernment, a Christian judges all things 1 Cor 2:15 and will even judge angels 1 Cor 6:3. Sentencing, we can per Paul in 1 Cor 6:1-9 grasp appropriate punishments on earth, better then the unsaved. Jesus also says we know someone by their fruits. But when it comes to sentencing to hell, Jer 17:9-11 makes it clear that God judges at levels we can't. But we must not use that as an excuse for not judging. God gave us the ability to discern all things when He made us with high intelligence, a little beneath the angels. Able to grasp right and wrong as He and the angels do Gen 3:22. So, no offence but when anyone says '''do not judge''' with no proper explanation, I will bet that more often then not I am about to hear a lecture from someone trying to justify sin.

Can you quote the verse please.

All I know is that Jesus told her to go and sin no more. Not sure what point you making though. Care to please explain?

Question is how do we know we are saved, how do we know we are Christians, for Christ said that many who think they are saved will in fact be condemned, and if we don't how do we know that our powers of discernment are therefore correct, surely the basis of Christs words to Judge not, lest you be judged" and "let him without sin cast the first stone" is just that, we view others sins through the prism of our own sinful nature, and cannot pronounce on anothers Salvation or otherwise,...... Mark 10 23-27, in response to Christs words of how hard it will be for a rich man to enter heaven, the disciples said, "Who then can be saved", to which Christ responded"....with God, ALL things are possible",...... the point i'm making is that according to the law, the woman should have been stoned to death, but Christ showed Compassion and Mercy, without mention of repentance, and overturned legality and convention, for with God, ALL things are possible, so don't be too keen to straightjacket God into how you believe he should act,

 

[Rad]

You mean like gift an unrepentant pedophile a spot in heaven with children?

God can work with someone who truthfully repents Psalm 51:17. God casts out those who cant. Those who love their sin. John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. People ''REJECT'' Jesus because they ''love the darkness''. God must graft someone into heaven who ''loves the darkness''? Repentance speaks to hating sin. IE A truly repentant sinner will immediately stop mortal sins, but will still daily battle venial sins. Rom 7:15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.

The devil was cast out because '' he has been sinning from the beginning'' John 8:44. He never hated the darkness. God saw there was no more hope for him and all the fallen angels. God is not a fool who grafts a devil into heaven.

Did the woman taken in Adultery repent, did the thief on the cross repent, did Lazarus the beggar repent, did Zacchaeus repent,...... perhaps an illustration will better reflect my thinking, tied in with this thread, in March 2018, a Brazilian Human Rights activist Marielle Franco was murdered, she had spent her adult life fighting for the rights of the marginalised and voiceless of the Favellas, in Rio de Janeiro, the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the oppressed, those subjected to the brutality of police violence, and for this she lost her life, in the Sheep and the goats, Christ says that when you help those in need you sre in fact helping him, and will receive your reward in heaven, but Marille Franco was Gay, an unrepentent advocate for Gay rights she lived with her long time partner in a Loving relationship,...... i would never pronounce on her Judgement by God, if pushed i would hope that her Compassion and Love she showed for those in need would be rewarded as one of Christs "Sheep", for while i understand that God is a God of Judgement, i also believe that his Compassion and Mercy is far beyond that of any Human, and thank God that it is, for we are ALL going to be in dire need of it.

 

[Curtis]

my Christianity is founded on Compassion and Mercy,

God is "love". Was Jesus walking in love when he told the religious leaders of his day that, "their father was the Devil, and the lusts of their father they would do"? (John 8:44)
Love, and compassion always speaks the truth even when it is not popular, or pleasing to our ears!!

Pro 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

 

[Rad]

I can promise you that they all made Jesus Lord of their lives.

There are not different routes. Jesus is the only route John 14:6. When He knocks on the door to our hearts Rev 3:20, He ''only'' comes in if we truly accept Him. We truly accept Him when we truly are willing to ''make Him Lord of our lives / give our lives to Him'' Matt 16:24. This implies repentance of what He hates. Not living after the lusts of the flesh.

Many come to Jesus, Jesus finds them because they hate what is evil as James 4:8 clearly says. David was a man after God's heart because he was upright in all his ways. When he committed his two mortal sins, everyone was shocked. David kept it to two though. He did not go on in murder and adultery. As Paul did not go on and on in murder. This truth needs to sink in. If we go on and on in sin that God ordained capital punishment for, must we be surprised if tomorrow morning we awake in Hades and find ourselves '''eternally''' separated from a good and righteous God? Surrounded by unrepentant sinners for eternity.

There is a difference to making Jesus Lord of our lives, and saying that we must repent to achieve salvation, there is no mention of repentance in any of those situations, and when i talked of routes to salvation , i meant that Jesus is the only route, but there are many different ways to get to him, for Lazarus the Beggar it seemed that his poverty was the answer, for the "Sheep" it seems their Compassion for those in need was the answer, for the Thief on the Cross it seems his Faith was the answer, for Zacchaeus it seems that his rejection of his unjust past and embrace of Poverty was the answer, there doesn't seem to me to be one answer, but a multiplicity of answers and situations that God alone is proficient to pass judgement on,........ who is to say that the Love a Homosexual shows in their life for others will not be viewed by god as sufficient to be granted salvation, and who is to say that the piety and professing of faith by a rich believer will be enough to be saved, not me for sure, but God alone.

 

[Rad]

How many times is ''sexual relations with mother'' Lev 20:11 mentioned?

Good to hear and we are in full agreement here :smile: .

Not at all, but condemnation of the rich and powerful, the command to treat others as we would want them to treat us, the call to help those in need , is pronounced time and time again, so what do we conclude from this, for it seems to me that many "Christians" choose to pick on the easily identifiable sins of others, Adultery and Homosexuality being favourites amongst them, and yes incest as you so rightly pointed out, yet tolerate the very sins that Christ pronounced upon again and again,....... for its far easier to throw that stone at others than to have to make some very Uncomfortable changes to our lives, no matter what our saviour and Lord called us to do.

 

[KingJ]

Question is how do we know we are saved, how do we know we are Christians

2 Cor 3:15 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you unless, of course, you fail the test?
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
James 4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

for Christ said that many who think they are saved will in fact be condemned,

Matt 7:22 is the verse you quoting. People prophecy, heal the sick and cast out demons. All acts that can push vanity. If they were to judge themselves truthfully they would grasp their charade. As would any GLBT thinking they are saved.

surely the basis of Christs words to Judge not, lest you be judged" and "let him without sin cast the first stone"

This has to be GLBT's most quoted verse from scripture. I have heard Christians try explain the context a million times to GLBT's and yet they still continue with the same cherry picked out of context interpretation as you do.

The punishment that Jesus stopped was a stoning to death. Jesus was raising an argument from Rom 6:23 Wages of sin is death. All had sin. Nobody could / should cast a stone that....results in death. As I have said to twice already, Psalm 51:17 was available to the mortal sinner who could still repent. Would still be able to repent as they were not yet sold out to the sin. He would only have stopped it if He felt she was not ''sold out'' to the mortal sin. As we know (as you have quoted) God annihilated entire nations that were sold out to sin Gen 18:20, Gen 15:16. Num 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.

is just that, we view others sins through the prism of our own sinful nature, and cannot pronounce on anothers Salvation or otherwise,

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[KingJ]

Mark 10 23-27, in response to Christs words of how hard it will be for a rich man to enter heaven, the disciples said, "Who then can be saved", to which Christ responded"....with God, ALL things are possible",..

Note, Jesus told the young rich man to sell all He had. Note the verses after speak to 'following Him' (Matt 19:28) and 'forsaken all' (Matt 19:29). So whilst God can do '''anything''' He chooses to '''do''' what is right and not over ride our free will to choose to '''not'' sell all our riches, follow Him or forsake all for Him. Is this really that hard to understand. You are utterly abusing that line from Jesus. Cherry picking it completely out of its much needed context.

Christ showed Compassion and Mercy, without mention of repentance,

You have wishful thinking. Hating sin = stopping = repentance = accepting Jesus. You cannot hate sin if you don't repent. You cannot stop sinning if you don't repent and hate sin. You cannot accept Jesus if you love what is wicked. That is the ''verdict''. John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Nobody gets to heaven without accepting Jesus John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

and overturned legality and convention, for with God, ALL things are possible, so don't be too keen to straightjacket God into how you believe he should act,

What would you say to the adulterer? Go and sin further? Do you believe Rom 7:15 is Paul talking to still committing the mortal sin of murder? Yes or No?

Jesus said this in addition to your line John 8:11 Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

If Jesus said this to you Lev 18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. and you disobeyed Him and continued in the sin unrepentant. Well then this verse from Paul is for you / us Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.

 

[KingJ]

Not at all, but condemnation of the rich and powerful, the command to treat others as we would want them to treat us, the call to help those in need , is pronounced time and time again, so what do we conclude from this, for it seems to me that many "Christians" choose to pick on the easily identifiable sins of others, Adultery and Homosexuality being favourites amongst them, and yes incest as you so rightly pointed out, yet tolerate the very sins that Christ pronounced upon again and again,....... for its far easier to throw that stone at others than to have to make some very Uncomfortable changes to our lives, no matter what our saviour and Lord called us to do.

You are just blurring the issue. I have said why homosexuals / GLBT crowd is an issue. I have touched on leftist socialism. I have explained mortal sins. I have explained God's reasoning for capital punishment on the sin.

Sexual sins like those you mention will always be a ''hot'' topic as those in it want our approval and those who strive to be righteous will never give it.

You will never get a '''all sin is sin''' statement from me as I have a working brain and am not stupid. We all have the ability to grasp the wickedness of sodomy. You are fooling nobody. Especially not God.