What Happened?

[Faith4Bride]

Ever wondered why Paul wanted Luke to travel with him?

luke often was used as a scribe for paul- however the great commision is go out of TWO BY TWO so often luke went with paul but often also barnabas went with him. going in two's is the command of the Lord.

The word of God does not tell us anything else on that matter that would pertain to this topic

Who am I to question why something has come to me and not to another? Who am I to say what God's will is and what it isn't? Yes, I can read the Bible, but does it tell ALL things about God? I'm just asking these questions...I think we need to be aware that God can do ANYTHING!


Jesus said "Without me you can do nothing."


Would you go up to someone who has lost a loved one and tell them they didn't have enough faith?

Who are you to tell them this? Is this not condemning?

Jesus says if we have faith even as small as a mustard seed, we can tell a mountain to more and it will.

Is not someone's faith amount between them and God? Is it not like their relationship with God? Who are we to know the true extent of the relationship, except by seeing its fruit?


I don't pray to God so that I get my way. How selfish would that be? I don't love God because He can give me wealth and all that I could ever want. I didn't come to God so that He could give and give and I need do nothing.

God gave His ONLY Son to die in my place! I will NOT take that for granted! I will NOT make it seem as if what God gives me is what I deserve! In truth, I deserve hell. But God...in His love and mercy...says differently.

."

To your first question the bible reveals the will of God. You said God can do anything. Well that is partly true. God CAN do anything BUT he has bound himself to His word that He will not lie.

So because He has bound himself to his word, He cannot lie, nor change his word, nor change his mind outside of His word.- If His revealed will is that healing was already provided on the cross of Christ in His stripes and that we were already healed if we will believe- then that is true and God cannot change His mind or say " no i dont think so, i know you believe without doubt and you forgive and repent but i just dont wanna"

That is not the way of God. The only way faith works is if you can know His will and walk in it without stumblind without doubting.

We can think that it is humble for us to say that God can do whatever he wants, who are we to say, etc.. but true humitily is to submit to His word and believe it is 100% true and solid and unchanging.


You ask would you go up to someone who lost a loved one and say they lacked faith.- That is not the point. We do not need to say something to people in their suffering to rub in the truth. Sometimes people die because of sin that doesnt mean we go to their spouse and say'ya thats cause your husband was a drunk fornicator blasphemer"- no that is not loving but that might be very true.

A persons faith IS between them and God that is true but the truth of how this works remains the same. If we see the effect we can know there is only so many causes and " it wasnt Gods will" is not one that is available.

That doesnt mean that those who lacked faith in a trial need to be blamed. It happens, trials can be so hard that you cannot imagine until you are in them and it is easy to have doubt and if you are not diligent it is even easier - it happens, sometimes we doubt, sometimes we fail, sometimes we fear and when we do we do NOT need someone to be hateful and say " well you just dont have faith". Now it may be true they lacked faith but WE dont need to say it even if we know it must be true.

But we also do not blame God as if His promises can fail, to spare the feelings of the person. We can just be there for them to comfort them and hopefully they are alive to try again. IT WILL HAPPEN TO ALL who walk by faith. It even happened to abraham! but he lived to get up and beleive again and overcome doubt that time.

Now you talk about praying so you get your way. WHen it comes to healing that is not how it works. We are always to align OUR will to GODS will and them pray or command it done and beleive it is already recieved.

Beleving for healing is not selfish, it is what God wants us to do. It is the way of flesh to try to keep its sickness to itself.

Think for a moment of the examples of those Jesus healed. They PRESSED HIM to get healed, they touched his hem KNOWING if they could they WOULD be healed, they told him just say a word, they yelled out heal me! and they were healed.

Jesus did not say to any of them" you are just being selfish, i might not wanna heal you" No, He said they had faith and because of their faith they are healed.

All saints of all time who walk and live by faith must rely on the word of God and the will of God and that it does not change. They must be able to walk through all things in confidence that what He says is true always and doesnt depend on circumstances or individual people. If this cannot be done then no one can live by faith.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

You have a Bible. Count the ones that are identified.

Everybody must get stoned!! LOL

 

[SpiritLedEd]

toleration destroys society, and burdens it with expense and taxes and leaves little in the way of appreciation for God.

I think the rush to judgement that has erupted, especially in America, has probably done more damage in recent years than tolerance. We are either wildly from the far left (Liberal) or far right (Conservative). And we take our positions with malice toward those who disagree with us. On the subject of criminal justice, I like the philosophy espoused by the late U. S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis - That it is better to let a thousand guilty men go free than to convict one single innocent man.

God is not harsh but just and fair and the world has left his way for mans way.

You omitted "loving". Why? Do you think His nature has changed, that He only loves those who love Him?

SLE

 

[jiggyfly]

You have a Bible. Count the ones that are identified.

Well I know of one time in Acts 14 but you said there were many. Where are the other accounts?

 

[jiggyfly]

luke often was used as a scribe for paul- however the great commision is go out of TWO BY TWO so often luke went with paul but often also barnabas went with him. going in two's is the command of the Lord.

The word of God does not tell us anything else on that matter that would pertain to this topic

You honestly don't see the fact that Luke was a physician as being pertinent to the topic?

 

[Faith4Bride]

You honestly don't see the fact that Luke was a physician as being pertinent to the topic?

No i do not because paul was very specific about not doing works of flesh and there is not one scriptural account of any "physican" skills being used by luke.

The bible teaches us that healing was already provided for us by the stripes of Jesus- that we already "were healed".

I do not believe that luke being called a physician(which people are assuming means doctor instead of healer) can undo the work of Christ or the promises of God.

Again our faith and doctrine should be on actual doctrine and covenants- not on " so and so was sick in one verse with no details" " so and so was a physician" "so and so died". None of those things pertain because they are not a basis to form doctrine.

 

[jiggyfly]

No i do not because paul was very specific about not doing works of flesh and there is not one scriptural account of any "physican" skills being used by luke.

The bible teaches us that healing was already provided for us by the stripes of Jesus- that we already "were healed".

I do not believe that luke being called a physician(which people are assuming means doctor instead of healer) can undo the work of Christ or the promises of God.

Again our faith and doctrine should be on actual doctrine and covenants- not on " so and so was sick in one verse with no details" " so and so was a physician" "so and so died". None of those things pertain because they are not a basis to form doctrine.

Please elaborate about what "works of the flesh" you are referring to.

On a side note you seem to believe in tithing, can you name one account in the scriptures of any new covenant believer tithing?

 

[Faith4Bride]

Please elaborate about what "works of the flesh" you are referring to.

On a side note you seem to believe in tithing, can you name one account in the scriptures of any new covenant believer tithing?

Works of flesh is anything that is not of faith. The ministry of beleivers going out to preach the gospel to all nations includes " healing the sick" and as we see, commanding it done. It does not include bringing with you a doctor to hand out medicine.- If paul would have taken luke for him to be a doctor instead of to fulfill the great commision then he could not have said as he did many times that he came to them with signs and wonders not with enticing words.

As far as tithing no I do not believe in it at all. Tithing is not in the new testament covenant and even in the OT it was nothing close to what is falsely preached today. Christians are to give cheerfully from the heart as they are led. They are not required to give any tithe, they are not required to give 10% and keep 90. That puts beleivers under a law.

Furthermore tithing under the law was of food not money and was only required of certain kinds of people like shepherds and farmers, not normal people. It was not required weekly or monthly either.

Abraham tithed 10 percent of all he won in battle, but he gave the other 90 % away free also and kept nothing for himself and it was a one time event.

Tithing is the teaching, tradition and bondage of men to fleece Gods flock. and you are 100% correct we never see a believer do it or be told to in the NT.

 

[jiggyfly]

Works of flesh is anything that is not of faith. The ministry of beleivers going out to preach the gospel to all nations includes " healing the sick" and as we see, commanding it done. It does not include bringing with you a doctor to hand out medicine.- If paul would have taken luke for him to be a doctor instead of to fulfill the great commision then he could not have said as he did many times that he came to them with signs and wonders not with enticing words.

As far as tithing no I do not believe in it at all. Tithing is not in the new testament covenant and even in the OT it was nothing close to what is falsely preached today. Christians are to give cheerfully from the heart as they are led. They are not required to give any tithe, they are not required to give 10% and keep 90. That puts beleivers under a law.

Furthermore tithing under the law was of food not money and was only required of certain kinds of people like shepherds and farmers, not normal people. It was not required weekly or monthly either.

Abraham tithed 10 percent of all he won in battle, but he gave the other 90 % away free also and kept nothing for himself and it was a one time event.

Tithing is the teaching, tradition and bondage of men to fleece Gods flock. and you are 100% correct we never see a believer do it or be told to in the NT.

I'm sorry had you mixed up with someone else on the tithing issue.

We know that Paul suffered sickness of some sort so was it because his faith was weak?

 

[The Robster]

Everybody must get stoned!! LOL

LOL Nice.

 

[Faith4Bride]

I'm sorry had you mixed up with someone else on the tithing issue.

We know that Paul suffered sickness of some sort so was it because his faith was weak?

no prob. i wondered why you thought that about me on tithing but no biggie i just thought you may have figured it went with the territory ( cause with some it seems to)



I would like to make a good point here to what you have asked. Does getting sick mean we lack faith? NO- we can all get sick but that does not mean that becasue we get sick that we have to accept it and stay sick. We have authority to command it done because we have already been healed at the cross. or we can pray for it or have elders pray for it. What is important is that our faith is rooted in the fact that we were already healed.

This is what it means to walk by faith. then after it is prayed for or commanded you beleive you are healed no matter how you feel because that is faith it does not walk by what it sees or feels or hears but by what God says.

Now as far as paul being sick. We are not told that he is sick. We are told that he is weak, and persecuted, etc.. paul tells us that all things he has endured were through persecution and sufferings for Christs sake. They were not just some illness that came upon him.

but even if he were to have sometimes been sick- what is important is not if he ever got sick, but that Christ already healed him at the cross.

We have to remember that what is TRUE is what GOD SAYS, not what we see, feel , hear, taste. This world, the flesh, and the elements lie against the word of God.


Abraham is a good example. He was told he would have a son of promise. the bible said that " he considered not his own body now dead".

Physically he was past the age and so was sarah- EVERYTHING they knew and felt was against the promise but to beleive we must " not consider our own body now dead" exactly as he did.

If your head hurts we can say " be healed in the name of Jesus" and then walk and live and be confident and do not believe your head, beleive God.

 

[Kit Carson]

Finally maybe I can explain, use these posts to help say what I have been trying to say.

No Apostle Paul did not have weak faith. He had more faith in one toe nail than 1000 of us do in our whole make up. Yes he did suffer from some kind of stomach problem . But it did not make him weak, he simply loved God. He knew that he was going to be well when he died and all would be much better. He was not concerned or fearful of death.

That is what I have been trying to say, God is more concerned with our spiritual health than our physical health. And any person who is sick and still has strong faith and shows in public this faith, brings great Glory to God.

I hope some of you understand that.

Kit

 

[The Robster]

Finally maybe I can explain, use these posts to help say what I have been trying to say.

No Apostle Paul did not have weak faith. He had more faith in one toe nail than 1000 of us do in our whole make up. Yes he did suffer from some kind of stomach problem . But it did not make him weak, he simply loved God. He knew that he was going to be well when he died and all would be much better. He was not concerned or fearful of death.

That is what I have been trying to say, God is more concerned with our spiritual health than our physical health. And any person who is sick and still has strong faith and shows in public this faith, brings great Glory to God.

I hope some of you understand that.

Kit

Our physical body was also purchased by Christ at the Cross, not just our spirit. To say God is more concerned about our spirit than our body is a direct atatck on the perfect and finished work at the Cross. Jesus broke His body for our healing and wholeness. And no one is a better expert on this matter than Paul since even he ripped those Corinthians apart in 1 Corinthians 11 for reating the Lord's Supper with such blatant disrespect. And even He told them, that manyw ere weak, sick and dying prematurely in the Corinthian church because they were not discerning what the Lord's body was for during Communion. There is no glory in being sick. Sickness is not a more abundant life. No one sees any glory in walking around sick and the Lord's Supper is exactly how Jesus imparts His supernatural health and wholeness into our bodies. He was the perfect Passover lamb. The Israelites eat a roasted lamb on teh first Passover and the following day the ENTIRE Israeli opulation left Egypt perfectly healed and whole and with silver and gold. Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper on Passover. What we see a shadow of in the OT is the substance in the Lord's Supper. That's how much God cared about our bodies! That's why Paul ripped those Corinthians a new one. Christians were not supposed to be becoming sick, weakly and dying prematurely. teh Holy Spirit spent an entire chapter showing us that Communion is not a ritual like most churches have turned it into. Its how Jesus gives us His perfect health. taken in faith, you can be healed of any sickness or disease. Even Jesus drove this point home in John 6:48-62. He said so Himself. If we eat His flesh and drink His blood, we will never die! Our physical bodies will not die. The prayer of faith is not the only way to be healed. Its just like God to confound the mighty with a piece of bread and a cup. And that's just how much God cared about our physical bodies yet millions of Christians are not reaping the benefits from the Lord's Supper because this truth was lost by the church. And that's why its just plain ole foolish to even suggest that Paul had some sickness that couldn't be cured because he had his own private briefing with Jesus regarding Communion. That's why the early church took Communion everyday. Those disciples that were with Jesus at the Lord's Supper knew EXACTLY what Jesus meant when He said this is my body and this is my blood. They knew He was giving them His perfect health and wholeness through Communion. They lived with Jesus for over 3 years and NEVER ONCE saw Him sick! That's how much Jesus loves you and ME!

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Please elaborate about what "works of the flesh" you are referring to.

On a side note you seem to believe in tithing, can you name one account in the scriptures of any new covenant believer tithing?

Jigger!!

I don't think there is any instance of any believer tithing. Why? The tithe is a law of the old covenant. Still.....The principle applies.
My Lady and I call it offerings. Simple as that.
Malachi 3:10-12 (Contemporary English Version)

<sup class="versenum" id="en-CEV-19762">10</sup>I am the LORD All-Powerful, and I challenge you to put me to the test. Bring the entire ten percent into the storehouse, so there will be food in my house. Then I will open the windows of heaven and flood you with blessing after blessing. <sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;#fen-CEV-19762a&quot; title=&quot;See footnote a&quot;>a</a>]">[a]</sup> <sup class="versenum" id="en-CEV-19763">11</sup>I will also stop locusts <sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;#fen-CEV-19763b&quot; title=&quot;See footnote b&quot;>b</a>]">[b]</sup> from destroying your crops and keeping your vineyards from producing. <sup class="versenum" id="en-CEV-19764">12</sup>Everyone of every nation will talk about how I have blessed you and about your wonderful land. I, the LORD All-Powerful, have spoken!



So we do that. We give at least ten% of all that comes into this home. Partly because its fun. I learned years ago somewhere 'You can't outgive God' Its fun trying. LOL But I have to say it is impossible because all I can give Him comes from Him. But Oh! How He blesses. The word windows translates as 'floodgates'!

 

[Faith4Bride]

Our physical body was also purchased by Christ at the Cross, not just our spirit. To say God is more concerned about our spirit than our body is a direct atatck on the perfect and finished work at the Cross. Jesus broke His body for our healing and wholeness. And no one is a better expert on this matter than Paul since even he ripped those Corinthians apart in 1 Corinthians 11 for reating the Lord's Supper with such blatant disrespect. And even He told them, that manyw ere weak, sick and dying prematurely in the Corinthian church because they were not discerning what the Lord's body was for during Communion. There is no glory in being sick. Sickness is not a more abundant life. No one sees any glory in walking around sick and the Lord's Supper is exactly how Jesus imparts His supernatural health and wholeness into our bodies. He was the perfect Passover lamb. The Israelites eat a roasted lamb on teh first Passover and the following day the ENTIRE Israeli opulation left Egypt perfectly healed and whole and with silver and gold. Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper on Passover. What we see a shadow of in the OT is the substance in the Lord's Supper. That's how much God cared about our bodies! That's why Paul ripped those Corinthians a new one. Christians were not supposed to be becoming sick, weakly and dying prematurely. teh Holy Spirit spent an entire chapter showing us that Communion is not a ritual like most churches have turned it into. Its how Jesus gives us His perfect health. taken in faith, you can be healed of any sickness or disease. Even Jesus drove this point home in John 6:48-62. He said so Himself. If we eat His flesh and drink His blood, we will never die! Our physical bodies will not die. The prayer of faith is not the only way to be healed. Its just like God to confound the mighty with a piece of bread and a cup. And that's just how much God cared about our physical bodies yet millions of Christians are not reaping the benefits from the Lord's Supper because this truth was lost by the church. And that's why its just plain ole foolish to even suggest that Paul had some sickness that couldn't be cured because he had his own private briefing with Jesus regarding Communion. That's why the early church took Communion everyday. Those disciples that were with Jesus at the Lord's Supper knew EXACTLY what Jesus meant when He said this is my body and this is my blood. They knew He was giving them His perfect health and wholeness through Communion. They lived with Jesus for over 3 years and NEVER ONCE saw Him sick! That's how much Jesus loves you and ME!

amen well said.


I would like to say, there is something to be said for being faithful while you are faithfully awaiting your healing to manifest. But that is only if you are faithfully awaiting with confidence the manifesation of what you know is true.

To suffer sickness and beleive it gives God glory because you are faithful through it does not glorify God if you do not believe him faithful to deliver you as his blood provided. Then it becomes fleshly even if we dont mean it too.


I will say and it can be hard to comprehend, but the depths that our flesh will go to to stay carnal are amazing. I have been very sick before(because of a chastening) and i walked in faith that i was already healed, BUT the truth is FAITH puts to death the flesh because you must totally deny the flesh to be in faith. And flesh will long to remain sick. flesh will long to believe that if it just suffers and stays sick that will glorify God. It is a trick to get itself off the cross of Christ.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

amen well said.


I would like to say, there is something to be said for being faithful while you are faithfully awaiting your healing to manifest. But that is only if you are faithfully awaiting with confidence the manifesation of what you know is true.

To suffer sickness and beleive it gives God glory because you are faithful through it does not glorify God if you do not believe him faithful to deliver you as his blood provided. Then it becomes fleshly even if we dont mean it too.


I will say and it can be hard to comprehend, but the depths that our flesh will go to to stay carnal are amazing. I have been very sick before(because of a chastening) and i walked in faith that i was already healed, BUT the truth is FAITH puts to death the flesh because you must totally deny the flesh to be in faith. And flesh will long to remain sick. flesh will long to believe that if it just suffers and stays sick that will glorify God. It is a trick to get itself off the cross of Christ.

Um Robster....Paul ripped those Corinthians a new one? A new what? LOL

F4B What do you mean when you said.."I have been very sick before(because of a chastening) "?

 

[Kit Carson]

Our physical body was also purchased by Christ at the Cross, not just our spirit. To say God is more concerned about our spirit than our body is a direct atatck on the perfect and finished work at the Cross. Jesus broke His body for our healing and wholeness. And no one is a better expert on this matter than Paul since even he ripped those Corinthians apart in 1 Corinthians 11 for reating the Lord's Supper with such blatant disrespect. And even He told them, that manyw ere weak, sick and dying prematurely in the Corinthian church because they were not discerning what the Lord's body was for during Communion. There is no glory in being sick. Sickness is not a more abundant life. No one sees any glory in walking around sick and the Lord's Supper is exactly how Jesus imparts His supernatural health and wholeness into our bodies. He was the perfect Passover lamb. The Israelites eat a roasted lamb on teh first Passover and the following day the ENTIRE Israeli opulation left Egypt perfectly healed and whole and with silver and gold. Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper on Passover. What we see a shadow of in the OT is the substance in the Lord's Supper. That's how much God cared about our bodies! That's why Paul ripped those Corinthians a new one. Christians were not supposed to be becoming sick, weakly and dying prematurely. teh Holy Spirit spent an entire chapter showing us that Communion is not a ritual like most churches have turned it into. Its how Jesus gives us His perfect health. taken in faith, you can be healed of any sickness or disease. Even Jesus drove this point home in John 6:48-62. He said so Himself. If we eat His flesh and drink His blood, we will never die! Our physical bodies will not die. The prayer of faith is not the only way to be healed. Its just like God to confound the mighty with a piece of bread and a cup. And that's just how much God cared about our physical bodies yet millions of Christians are not reaping the benefits from the Lord's Supper because this truth was lost by the church. And that's why its just plain ole foolish to even suggest that Paul had some sickness that couldn't be cured because he had his own private briefing with Jesus regarding Communion. That's why the early church took Communion everyday. Those disciples that were with Jesus at the Lord's Supper knew EXACTLY what Jesus meant when He said this is my body and this is my blood. They knew He was giving them His perfect health and wholeness through Communion. They lived with Jesus for over 3 years and NEVER ONCE saw Him sick! That's how much Jesus loves you and ME!

What am I doing wrong? Do I need to go get a stick and whop someone . I must have done something wrong.

No one has said Paul could not be cured. The reason he was not I do not know, I was not there. Why do some people today love God and still suffer from some sickness. I do not know the answer to that one either. I may never know.

The point I am trying to convey that if someone is sick and still loves God and shows that love it brings Glory to God. Just like the Gentile woman who begged Jesus to cure her daughter when at first he did not want to listen. Her faith cured the situation and those who believed in this gave Glory to God. That is the point I am trying to make.

Your spiritual health is very important. What God does is his will, for his reasons, and to contest that is foolish. Each person and each thing is different and only that person and God knows the facts.

I cannot heal anyone, I know no person on this earth that can command healing and see it happen. Other than Benny Hinn. Oh my I need to behave. :shade: I believe in God with all my heart, you do too. But if I break my leg or one of my kidney stones decides to move can you heal me?? No you cannot. No man on this earth can. God can if he wishes to and what he does only he really understands. If I ask and he does not, I will not turn from him. But you see I will not ask, as he knows, and he knows me. He will do for me what he will before I need to ask.

It all comes with understanding . Those who were suffering when Jesus healed them gave Glory to God. Their suffering did that for God.

We were created as a companion and child of God, for his will, for his way , and some just cannot grasp that.

No man on earth can command my kidney stones to go away. I have three of them in my right kidney.

If you can do so. I will go to the doctor and get an X-ray and prove to you no man can.

God can if he wishes. But that is between me and him . But I am like Paul, I do not fear death, not at all. Nor do I resent having kidney stones. Nor will I fret over it and go to any man to be healed. If God so decides to one day they will just be gone. But is that really important to me, not not really, it will not serve any purpose, I already love God. If he did take them how could the public know?? Other than my word. And who trusts man?

P.S. others can pray for others, others can pray for me and can influence the outcome. I want to put that in before that is not understood. But no man in the world today has the powers of the apostles. Or the soul understanding required for those to receive healing. Only God knows that.

Kit

 

[Faith4Bride]

Um Robster....Paul ripped those Corinthians a new one? A new what? LOL

F4B What do you mean when you said.."I have been very sick before(because of a chastening) "?

It means that I had recieved a chastening from the Lord a couple years ago that made me very sick. He told me to repent- I did and then walked in faith that I was already healed at the cross and forgiven from the sin that caused God to chasten me. The Lord is faithful and I was and am healed.


( because of the possiblity here, i ask that we not now have a debate on chastening in this topic, as that isnt the topic, but if people want to have that conversation let us open a diff topic for the sake of the truth here)

 

[El Hombre viejo]

It means that I had recieved a chastening from the Lord a couple years ago that made me very sick. He told me to repent- I did and then walked in faith that I was already healed at the cross and forgiven from the sin that caused God to chasten me. The Lord is faithful and I was and am healed.


( because of the possiblity here, i ask that we not now have a debate on chastening in this topic, as that isnt the topic, but if people want to have that conversation let us open a diff topic for the sake of the truth here)

I do hope you're not saying God made you sick? That would be tantamount to blasphemy. It directly contradicts the Word.

The Word says 'By Jesus stripes you WERE healed. Its a done deal. You are the healed!

So...where did I misunderstand what you meant? :wink:


LOL Ok Lets do this in another thread.

 

[Faith4Bride]

I do hope you're not saying God made you sick? That would be tantamount to blasphemy. It directly contradicts the Word.

The Word says 'By Jesus stripes you WERE healed. Its a done deal. You are the healed!

So...where did I misunderstand what you meant? :wink:


LOL Ok Lets do this in another thread.

That is what I am saying brother start another thread and let me know what it is.