What Does The Bible Say About ABORTION?

[th1bill]

Technically, so does calling your brother "Moron."

Since you, as is your custom fail miserably as a teacher, failing to demonstrate the relevance of your comment to post, I simply respond, "What!! I did not call you a name!"

 

[KingJ]

You and I seldom disagree but the truth is a dead ***** and/or an improperly constructed egg will not produce a human made in the image of God. Couple a healthy egg with a healthy *****, allow that to go to termination and it produces as Yehovah intended, image copies of Himself.

Murder at any point from conception through natural death strikes Yehovah in the face with a fist.

I hear your argument. I genuinely nervously disagree .

If you were a judge. Knowing that the crime of murder warrants capital punishment. Would you, drop the hammer on a woman who takes a morning after pill? I wouldn't.

I want to harp on the 'murder' charge. Because that clarifies the discussion. We as Christians are called to judge all matters 1 Cor 2:15. As Paul says we will even judge angels 1 Cor 6:3.

Now my judgement would be as follows.

1. All abortion is wrong.
2. Abortion by the mother during the germinal stage ( before an embryo) is 1/10 evil. In the case of a rape, 0/10.
3. Abortion by the mother during the embryonic stage (before a fetus) is 3/10 evil.
4. Abortion by the mother during the fetal stage (before actual birth) is 9.9/10 evil.

Murder that is at a mortal sin level is a 10 and that will warrant capital punishment.

Reasoning:

This can be a very long winded explanation, but I will summarize in two simple points for consideration.

If the guilty party is unsaved:

1. Accountability and Intent

God holds Christians to a much higher level of accountability as we believe in Him being the Creator and better grasp His will. Most abortionists are not Christians who believe in God. If someone knew God as well as you do, you know God would be very upset, so you are held to a higher accountability. I believe that for His children He would also get involved and miraculously stop an abortion.

Then I just don't see a lot of evil intent. The mother cannot see or feel a baby in them. There is a reason for this. There is a reason for everything. Many mothers lose babies. God maybe made a window for Him to decide on it going to the next stage or not. If you believe in true free will, you have to be open to this possibility.

2. Where do we draw the line on 'stopping what God has put in motion'?

Is wasting seed / masturbation fine? Every seed we waste could have been a baby. Do we charge with a capital punishment the guy that takes drugs and has weak ***** that can't make it to an embryo? Should we incriminate fat woman who likewise kill the process at various stages due to obesity? What if the rapist has HIV and the mother aborts immediately not wanting a kid to grow up with that suffering? What if a mother drinks alcohol and has a miscarriage, is it murder? What if you find out at the start of the fetal stage that the baby will be deformed and paralyzed its entire life?

Closing thoughts:

1. I do not pass capital punishment on the abortion by the mother of any child. But, yes, certainly guilty of evil.

Now many say ''well that aborted baby could have been a person that will now never exist''. This is incorrect. Correct, that it could have been you or I, but God is not a fool. He will just find another host. If God wants someone to exist. Has preplanned someone to exist. They will come into existence. He just won't use the pro-abortionist community as much.

2. There are other crimes that many who abort are guilty of that need to be separately judged for. Like satanists who breed babies for sacrifices and in Africa for 'medicines'. If this is the reason for an abortion, it should carry a lengthy prison sentence.

 

[KingJ]

Because I haven't accused you of anything.

You stated '''I am still killing a baby''. That is murder. Murder warrants capital punishment. In the OT murderers would be stoned to death.

IE If I gave a morning after pill to my girlfriend, since God does not change Num 23:19 I should get or can expect to receive capital punishment one-day for my sin of murder.

You need to better grasp what you insinuate. It is fine to insinuate anything you want. If it is guilt of a capital crime, then it is reasonable for me to ask you to defend your argument. Which is all I did.

Please re-read the thread. My statement here can hardly be considered a personal accusation:

I did. See above. You accused me of murder.

In the above statement, I used the colloquial "you," instead of the basically obsolete formal "one." One is still killing a baby.

I said morning after pill, you said still killing a baby. One, you, her, him, it, all irrelevant.

Within the abortion debate in North East America, if not the entire United States itself, those who support Pro-life hold that the life of a child starts at conception. The "day after" pill, then, still kills a baby if conception had occurred. The claim, "Well I can't be killing a baby since I don't know if I was pregnant or not," is a bit like saying "I didn't commit murder when I blew up that house since I didn't know if anyone was in the building or not." Perhaps this explains my comment, "But you're (one is) still killing a baby."

I had then asked this question:

Instead of answering, you ... "flipped out" and then hid behind some obscure demand that I go study

I have not flipped out. I just see you not grasping what you insinuated.

Many girls all over the world have and do take morning after pills. Many girls all over the world love Jesus and have had abortions.

If you want to charge them with 10/10 (degree) MURDER as you stated they are ''killing'', then explain yourself. Do not simply quote Bill Burr. (he does make a good point, yes, but his point does not support capital punishment that follows ''murder'').

A Christian should be able to judge and discern matters better then the unsaved 1 Cor 6:1-9. Not state ''morning after pill = KILLING a baby''.

In your defense, I also said ''abortion is murder''. I meant to say ''abortion can be murder''.

That's not an answer. In the US, that would be called a "Dodge."

Telling you to research pregnancy cycles / science after you quote Bill is a dodge? I just wanted you to put effort into the discussion. You make a one liner and quote Bill Burr. Until this post you were not taking the discussion seriously. And, unlike our other chats, this is a very serious one.

Yes, I'm sure you have convinced yourself that it isn't murder, and have all sorts of fabricated reasons to support your belief. That said, one is still killing a baby. The Only Reason to take a "morning after pill" IS to kill the baby if conception has occurred. But if life doesn't begin at conception, then when? When is it a "birthday cake"? Mixing the batter? Pouring it in the pan? placing it in the oven? Turning the oven on?

Have you ever masturbated? You don't think God had thoughts of a future baby when that seed left your body? Did you murder someone?

A girl taking a morning after pill is not far from wasting seed. I am not saying it is right. But it is a 0-1/10 wrong and in the case of rape a 0/10. Make your case!!!! if you say its murder, justify your ''judgement''. Murder = capital punishment.

My judgements are as follows:

1. A seed is a seed - killing it = 0/10 = No punishment
2. An embryo is an embryo (3/10) = 1 year community service
3. A fetus is a fetus (9.9/10) = 4 years in prison if the mother and not a Christian. If a Christian who should know better = 7 years prison.
4. A newly born baby is a newly born baby (10/10) = death penalty / life sentence
5. A child is a child (10/10) = death penalty / life sentence
6. An adult is an adult 10/10) = death penalty / life sentence.
7. Multiple abortions of fetal stage babies ( as some do do) = death penalty / life sentence.

 

[KingJ]

Other options should be provided by those who follow the teachings of Christ. An outpouring of love would provide financial assistance, medical care, and an arrangement for an adoption if necessary.

Separate matter, lets first discuss if said action warrants capital punishment.

Two sins don't cancel each other out. One can hardly say, "Okay, murder is justified in case of Rape." Two wrongs don't make a right.

When you pass judgement you consider everything. A girl who is raped, will walk into my courtroom, be given a pill and all the aid she needs.

And yes, it IS that simple.

Judgement is never simple. Imagine you were that girl who was raped.

I don't care if you push the cake pan off the counter, or pour the cake batter out into the garbage, those actions are done on purpose. If you left things alone, you would have a birthday cake.

Not always. IE if you knew while mixing the dough that there were maggots in it, you would continue baking the cake?

Rapist could have HIV. If your cousin raped you, deformities. In Africa, the baby could die an even crueler death from starvation.

If you knew at the embryo stage that the baby would be deformed and paralyzed for life you would not abort? You would judge those who made the decision to abort guilty of capital punishment?

God didn't put Rape in motion.

Can God protect woman from rape? Did God protect a woman from rape if she was raped? Does God protect woman from rape?

Nor did God make anyone have sex.

Are you still thinking about rape as an example?

So there's no line to draw. You don't take the pan out of the oven and throw it across the room, unless you want to be a birthday cake murderer.

You have not applied your mind to rape.

If you are raped, keeping the baby is the last thing you want to do. Stop being silly. This is just shocking to be honest.

The person who is raped is 10/10 upset with God, 10/10 upset with rapist, 10/10 upset with the seed in them. You, Rhema, in all his Christian wisdom, would ordain that this particular person that has been so wronged, be found GUILTY of MURDER if they abort?

It is better, to have the baby, but they are NOT guilty of 'killing / murder'' if they don't. Understand this fact, most of your statements are dancing around it and we are really just each others time discussing anything but that.

If you don't understand how you put words in my mouth (and then also think that that's okay) it's worthless to continue. YOU KNOW I never said "first-degree murder" or "deserves the death penalty." so... Straw Man.

But you're still killing a baby.

How is '''killing a baby''' not a 10/10 offence? Explain that to me.

If you came to me and killed my baby, I will skin you alive.

Rhema


Everybody born deserves the death penalty. That's why we rely upon the grace and mercy of God, who at least delays death for maybe, what, a hundred years or so?

''Everybody born deserves the death penalty'' = 100% nonsense. Separate topic. Open a new thread.

And yet... that's NOT what the text says. It mentions nothing about beating up a pregnant lady. It specifically speaks about two men fighting each other.

C'mon, KJ, you rather need to start reading what is actually written.

I honestly laughed here. I thought you were joking and then I read how you said '''It specifically speaks about two men fighting each other'''

 

[Bill Taylor]

I hear your argument. I genuinely nervously disagree .

If you were a judge. Knowing that the crime of murder warrants capital punishment. Would you, drop the hammer on a woman who takes a morning after pill? I wouldn't.

I want to harp on the 'murder' charge. Because that clarifies the discussion. We as Christians are called to judge all matters 1 Cor 2:15. As Paul says we will even judge angels 1 Cor 6:3.

Now my judgement would be as follows.

1. All abortion is wrong.
2. Abortion by the mother during the germinal stage ( before an embryo) is 1/10 evil. In the case of a rape, 0/10.
3. Abortion by the mother during the embryonic stage (before a fetus) is 3/10 evil.
4. Abortion by the mother during the fetal stage (before actual birth) is 9.9/10 evil.

Murder that is at a mortal sin level is a 10 and that will warrant capital punishment.

Reasoning:

This can be a very long winded explanation, but I will summarize in two simple points for consideration.

If the guilty party is unsaved:

1. Accountability and Intent

God holds Christians to a much higher level of accountability as we believe in Him being the Creator and better grasp His will. Most abortionists are not Christians who believe in God. If someone knew God as well as you do, you know God would be very upset, so you are held to a higher accountability. I believe that for His children He would also get involved and miraculously stop an abortion.

Then I just don't see a lot of evil intent. The mother cannot see or feel a baby in them. There is a reason for this. There is a reason for everything. Many mothers lose babies. God maybe made a window for Him to decide on it going to the next stage or not. If you believe in true free will, you have to be open to this possibility.

2. Where do we draw the line on 'stopping what God has put in motion'?

Is wasting seed / masturbation fine? Every seed we waste could have been a baby. Do we charge with a capital punishment the guy that takes drugs and has weak ***** that can't make it to an embryo? Should we incriminate fat woman who likewise kill the process at various stages due to obesity? What if the rapist has HIV and the mother aborts immediately not wanting a kid to grow up with that suffering? What if a mother drinks alcohol and has a miscarriage, is it murder? What if you find out at the start of the fetal stage that the baby will be deformed and paralyzed its entire life?

Closing thoughts:

1. I do not pass capital punishment on the abortion by the mother of any child. But, yes, certainly guilty of evil.

Now many say ''well that aborted baby could have been a person that will now never exist''. This is incorrect. Correct, that it could have been you or I, but God is not a fool. He will just find another host. If God wants someone to exist. Has preplanned someone to exist. They will come into existence. He just won't use the pro-abortionist community as much.

2. There are other crimes that many who abort are guilty of that need to be separately judged for. Like satanists who breed babies for sacrifices and in Africa for 'medicines'. If this is the reason for an abortion, it should carry a lengthy prison sentence.

I have been taught by Ruah to take the Word of God as litteral unless He points out that it is not. Yehovah seriously loves His crowning creation, manj.

 

[Rhema]

Since you, as is your custom fail miserably as a teacher, failing to demonstrate the relevance of your comment to post, I simply respond, "What!! I did not call you a name!"

Bill, read more closely. I never said that you called me any name. We both know that. I was merely commenting that even calling your brother a Moron "strikes Yehovah in the face with a fist," as you put it. It doesn't just need to be murder.

(Matthew 5:22 KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool (Moron in Greek), shall be in danger of hell fire.​

​

Since you, as is your custom fail miserably as a teacher,

Then it's a Good thing that I'm not your teacher, or anyone's teacher for that matter.

(Matthew 23:8 NKJV) But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.​

But I am honored that you think me to be one, even though a miserable failure. (And that's calling me a name. Bill -1 Rhema - 0 )

God bless,
Rhema
If I was inclined to keep score.

 

[Rhema]

If someone knew God as well as you do, you know God would be very upset, so you are held to a higher accountability. I believe that for His children He would also get involved and miraculously stop an abortion.

God didn't stop David from murdering Uriah after he raped Bathsheba.

(2 Samuel 12:5-7 NKJV) So David's anger was greatly aroused against the man, and he said to Nathan, "As the LORD lives, the man who has done this shall surely die! And he shall restore fourfold for the lamb, because he did this thing and because he had no pity." Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul.​

And then He (God) even killed the baby.

(2 Samuel 12:13-14 NKJV) So David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die."​

So don't be so quick to think that you know what God would do.

2. Where do we draw the line on 'stopping what God has put in motion'?

God didn't put anything "in motion." The two parties involved have both the power and the responsibility to start a family within the guidelines that God has set, and killing a baby ON PURPOSE, no matter the cause of its creation, is still killing a created baby.

IE If I gave a morning after pill to my girlfriend, since God does not change Num 23:19 I should get or can expect to receive capital punishment one-day for my sin of murder.

IF... IF you're not married, then you shouldn't even be in the position of making that decision at all. So the presumption here must be that you did so because she was raped. I'm truly sorry that you had to experience such a horrible thing. But adding murder on top of everything else doesn't help. If you have not yet done so, I would urge you both to receive counseling from a woman who could explain to you what your girlfriend would be suffering throughout her whole life, being haunted by both the rape and the abortion. Taking vengeance on the rapist by killing a child is still killing the child. If all human life is sacred, then that includes ALL human life. As I said before, the mercy and kindness of a believer would cause an outpouring of love, would provide financial assistance, medical care, and an arrangement for an adoption if necessary.

Is wasting seed / masturbation fine? Every seed we waste could have been a baby.

"Wasted seed" ISN'T a baby. But once conception occurs, it IS a baby. No "coulds" or "mights" about it.

What if you find out at the start of the fetal stage that the baby will be deformed and paralyzed its entire life?

My best friend faced that as an actual reality. There was never a question that he would murder his child. Nor should there ever have been such a question. It is the responsibility of the brethren to love, support, and care for all us who are within the body of Christ who may face such struggles. I'll send you a picture, you coldhearted ba****.

You make up all these absurd scenarios, when the truth is simple. If conception has occurred, it's a human life made in the image of God and should be protected and nurtured to the best of the church's ability precisely because it's a human life made in the image of God. Anything else is Not love. It's sin.

I said morning after pill, you said still killing a baby. One, you, her, him, it, all irrelevant.

No it's not. Language matters. Up to that point you had made no mention of any personal involvement at all, and I refuse to accept your demand that I should read minds. So yes, one is still killing a baby, no matter whom.

Then I just don't see a lot of evil intent.

Most slave owners in the South didn't see a lot of evil intent in their practice of slavery either.

Many girls all over the world have and do take morning after pills. Many girls all over the world love Jesus and have had abortions.

And Most all of these girls all over the world, if not each and every one, will greatly suffer emotional and spiritual pain because of their sin. It sounds as if you're saying, girls who love Jesus can kill babies without repercussion. If these girls loved Jesus, they wouldn't be in a position to have ever needed to make such a decision.

If people who love Jesus sin, then they still have sinned and must deal with having sinned in the manner that God has instructed.

Repent. --- go and sin no more.​

(1 John 1:6-9 ) If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. ​

If you want to charge them with 10/10 (degree) MURDER as you stated they are ''killing'', then explain yourself.

It's not me, but God who charges them with murder. The Brethren are instructed to love those sinners who have killed their babies and help reconcile them with the light and Love of God. Where did you ever get the idea that the Disciples of Christ are to be Judge, jury, and executioner?

(Luke 6:37 NKJV) "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.​

​

(John 8:15 NKJV) You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.​

​

(Luke 19:10 NKJV) for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."​

But it's still sin. And the Gospel that we preach cannot support the sin of murder even if the baby came from rape, which is a judgment according to the flesh (man's ideas of Right and Wrong).

Until this post you were not taking the discussion seriously.

(Says you...) And I think that's a basic problem right there. You condemn people who do not live up to your standards or post the way YOU want them to, and don't seem to understand that I don't care one whit about what you think of me. God is not a respecter of persons, and neither am I. .

Have you ever masturbated? You don't think God had thoughts of a future baby when that seed left your body?

No. God had no thoughts one way or another. Dominion has been given to Man to procreate as a man sees fit, as long as it doesn't cross a boundary of Sin. All abortion is sin. Abortion is the PURPOSEFUL termination of human life, and the reasons for conception are irrelevant. But we don't bring condemnation, we bring understanding and light and the Forgiveness of Sin through the Prayer of Repentance.

Make your case!!!!

The purposeful terminal of any human life is murder, from conception on to it's natural (or accidental) death in the universe.

This "Pill" is attempted murder. It's done on purpose to terminate a pregnancy. But I understand that there are cultures that just don't value human life at all, or categorize certain types of human life as valueless. You once before said that Nazis weren't racist. (God knows where that came from) but I say to you that certain races were deemed valueless by the Master Race, which believed that they were required by God to eliminate them. Being a member of that Master Race, I can say with some certainty that you're pretty mixed up. (So were they.)

If you came to me and killed my baby, I will skin you alive.

Then Jesus is not your King. And the Holy Spirit of Forgiveness is not in your heart.

(Matthew 5:43-45 NKJV) "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.​

(Luke 6:35-36 NKJV) But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.​

My judgements are as follows:

Your judgments are irrelevant.

It is God who justifies and it is God who condemns.

A girl who is raped, will walk into my courtroom, be given a pill and all the aid she needs.

Then you approve of murder. It's that simple.

In Africa, the baby could die an even crueler death from starvation.

So we should kill them first, eh? Save them from all that suffering? (I'm sure the World Hunger people would just LUV that... )

If you knew at the embryo stage that the baby would be deformed and paralyzed for life you would not abort? You would judge those who made the decision to abort guilty of capital punishment?

Regardless of the reason, it's a purposeful decision to terminate a life that is made in the image of God. I happen to have genetic deformities, so maybe you can now understand the reason why I HATE the evil inside of you. This insane push spinning up inside your brain to find some manner of justification for you to murder the unborn. The reason doesn't matter. It's still murder.

Can God protect woman from rape? Did God protect a woman from rape if she was raped? Does God protect woman from rape?

He didn't protect Bathsheba. So please stop rambling. But can He? Yes. God will have mercy for his own reasons.

If you are raped, keeping the baby is the last thing you want to do. Stop being silly. This is just shocking to be honest.

It's shocking that you are trying so hard to justify murder. And from my work a few years ago at a ministry for unwed mothers, yes, there are many who came to us after being raped and wanting help to keep their baby. Your naïveté is astounding, almost bordering on the criminal.

You, Rhema, in all his Christian wisdom, would ordain that this particular person that has been so wronged, be found GUILTY of MURDER if they abort?

They ARE guilty in the eyes of God. There are NONE good. But you seem to not understand that Christian Wisdom is found in mercy by supporting LIFE, not killing it. One does not show the Love of God by giving out a morning after Pill.

'Everybody born deserves the death penalty'' = 100% nonsense.

I'm glad to see you finally admit that the Bible is nonsense:

(Romans 5:12 NKJV) Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—​

Oh man, I don't know how to respond to this.

I'm not surprised. Perhaps you should try reading what is actually written, instead of making your own stuff up.

Rhema
(And you're still killing a baby.)


@Christ4Ever

 

[Rhema]

Question. Are @Bill Taylor and @th1bill still the same person? Or has that all been fixed?

Thank you kindly,
Rhema

 

[KingJ]

God didn't stop David from murdering Uriah after he raped Bathsheba.

(2 Samuel 12:5-7 NKJV) So David's anger was greatly aroused against the man, and he said to Nathan, "As the LORD lives, the man who has done this shall surely die! And he shall restore fourfold for the lamb, because he did this thing and because he had no pity." Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul.​

And then He (God) even killed the baby.

(2 Samuel 12:13-14 NKJV) So David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die."​

So don't be so quick to think that you know what God would do.

Different topics really. David knew full well what he was doing. A young lady that is raped has just been victimized and not sure what to do.

God didn't put anything "in motion." The two parties involved have both the power and the responsibility to start a family within the guidelines that God has set, and killing a baby ON PURPOSE, no matter the cause of its creation, is still killing a created baby.

1. Let's focus on the rape of a lady and her using a morning after pill.

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

IF... IF you're not married, then you shouldn't even be in the position of making that decision at all. So the presumption here must be that you did so because she was raped. I'm truly sorry that you had to experience such a horrible thing. But adding murder on top of everything else doesn't help. If you have not yet done so, I would urge you both to receive counseling from a woman who could explain to you what your girlfriend would be suffering throughout her whole life, being haunted by both the rape and the abortion. Taking vengeance on the rapist by killing a child is still killing the child. If all human life is sacred, then that includes ALL human life. As I said before, the mercy and kindness of a believer would cause an outpouring of love, would provide financial assistance, medical care, and an arrangement for an adoption if necessary.

Just too many assumptions here. You are not properly reading my post.

"Wasted seed" ISN'T a baby. But once conception occurs, it IS a baby. No "coulds" or "mights" about it.

1. So wasted seed is not a sin? Nobody in scripture has died from wasting their seed?

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

My best friend faced that as an actual reality. There was never a question that he would murder his child. Nor should there ever have been such a question. It is the responsibility of the brethren to love, support, and care for all us who are within the body of Christ who may face such struggles. I'll send you a picture, you coldhearted ba****.

Just too many assumptions here. You are not properly reading my posts.

You make up all these absurd scenarios, when the truth is simple. If conception has occurred, it's a human life made in the image of God and should be protected and nurtured to the best of the church's ability precisely because it's a human life made in the image of God. Anything else is Not love. It's sin.

Not absurd scenarios. When one judges a matter, you need to consider everything. It is never simple. Your analogies and using Bill Burr example as A-Z to be considered are narrow minded and unrealistic.

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

No it's not. Language matters. Up to that point you had made no mention of any personal involvement at all, and I refuse to accept your demand that I should read minds. So yes, one is still killing a baby, no matter whom.

I stated a hypothetical that you read into. You are not properly reading my posts.

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

Most slave owners in the South didn't see a lot of evil intent in their practice of slavery either.

To state 'slavery' shows you do not grasp what happened here.

If you are trying to make the point that good intent can have disastrous outcomes, that is true. But your example and 'comparisn' is just the worst.

Then, knowing there was no evil intent would you:

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

And Most all of these girls all over the world, if not each and every one, will greatly suffer emotional and spiritual pain because of their sin. It sounds as if you're saying, girls who love Jesus can kill babies without repercussion. If these girls loved Jesus, they wouldn't be in a position to have ever needed to make such a decision.

I think you are missing the point. The point is that many good people have been naïve about abortion and had one.

That one can be naïve about it and still do it, shows that capital punishment cannot be the judgement.

I have stated that Christians are more accountable as they should know better. But many don't. Why is that? Why does one have to be properly taught that they must not have an abortion?

A fact like that needs to be considered when you play judge jury and executioner with your line ''KILLING a baby'''.

If people who love Jesus sin, then they still have sinned and must deal with having sinned in the manner that God has instructed.

Repent. --- go and sin no more.​

(1 John 1:6-9 ) If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. ​

You raise a good topic for discussion. What pricks our conscience when we sin?

As a kid you grow up learning that something like pain is not nice. You thus choose to not slap your sibling and make them cry. Now something like an abortion before a baby is noticeably kicking and moving can be done without pricking any senses. Is that not by design?

Before you run off with assumptions, understand I am not for abortion. I am just acknowledging that to state it warrants capital punishment before its even an embryo is absurd.

It's not me, but God who charges them with murder. The Brethren are instructed to love those sinners who have killed their babies and help reconcile them with the light and Love of God. Where did you ever get the idea that the Disciples of Christ are to be Judge, jury, and executioner?

A spiritual man judges ALL things 1 Cor 2:15. One day we will judge angels 1 Cor 6:3. A Christian works out their own salvation with self-judgement in fear and trembling before God Phil 2:12. We judge and consider everything! God does the same.

We need to always assess how bad what we doing is. This is Christianity 101. If you are battling with mortal sins you are not a Christian.

Would you listen to Paul if he was still murdering people? Yes or No. I know you will dodge this. Many do. When someone discusses degrees of sin their brains melt.

A Christian who CANNOT judge matters BETTER than the unsaved got a harsh REBUKE from Paul in 1 Cor 6:1-9.

Now, the unsaved know not to give a woman who aborts capital punishment, yet you would do it. Cough cough, unless it was your own duaghter?

(Luke 6:37 NKJV) "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

There is context to this. Feel free to create a new thread to discuss. I will just say that Jesus is referring to judgement as in casting stones at an adulteress. We do not cast stones, we are all guilty of sin. But God forbid we not judge and examine ourselves. Would you listen to Paul if he was still murdering people? Yes or No.

(John 8:15 NKJV) You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.

Ok, good to know you read this verse ''as is''. So you don't believe in hell right?

(Luke 19:10 NKJV) for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."​

Why if He judges nobody? Who is to say a transsexual cross dresser is lost? Is that not judging?

But it's still sin. And the Gospel that we preach cannot support the sin of murder even if the baby came from rape, which is a judgment according to the flesh (man's ideas of Right and Wrong).

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

(Says you...) And I think that's a basic problem right there. You condemn people who do not live up to your standards or post the way YOU want them to, and don't seem to understand that I don't care one whit about what you think of me. God is not a respecter of persons, and neither am I.

No. God had no thoughts one way or another. Dominion has been given to Man to procreate as a man sees fit, as long as it doesn't cross a boundary of Sin.

Boundary of sin like masturbation and rape?

1. So wasted seed is not a sin? Nobody in scripture has died from wasting their seed?

All abortion is sin.

Yes and does all sin warrant capital punishment according to scripture?

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

Abortion is the PURPOSEFUL termination of human life, and the reasons for conception are irrelevant. But we don't bring condemnation, we bring understanding and light and the Forgiveness of Sin through the Prayer of Repentance.

Separate topic. The following question was asked after I showed scripture that says we judge all things and must judge matters better then the unsaved:

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

The purposeful terminal of any human life is murder, from conception on to it's natural (or accidental) death in the universe.

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

You once before said that Nazis weren't racist. (God knows where that came from)

I explained context to you in the relevant post.

This "Pill" is attempted murder.

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

It's done on purpose to terminate a pregnancy. But I understand that there are cultures that just don't value human life at all, or categorize certain types of human life as valueless. You once before said that Nazis weren't racist. (God knows where that came from) but I say to you that certain races were deemed valueless by the Master Race, which believed that they were required by God to eliminate them. Being a member of that Master Race, I can say with some certainty that you're pretty mixed up. (So were they.)

Did you really just resort to keeping face by stating I am a Nazi?

Then Jesus is not your King. And the Holy Spirit of Forgiveness is not in your heart.

(Matthew 5:43-45 NKJV) "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.​

(Luke 6:35-36 NKJV) But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.​

I think you missing the point that I would be very upset.

Your judgments are irrelevant.

This statement is wrong on so many levels. If we cannot judge matters how do we know we are saved?

Jesus says you know someone by their fruits.

It is God who justifies and it is God who condemns.

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.''

 

[KingJ]

Then you approve of murder. It's that simple.

Nice to know that if your daughter came to you after her abortion, you will ordain capital punishment for her.

So we should kill them first, eh? Save them from all that suffering? (I'm sure the World Hunger people would just LUV that... )

You know the context is that is something to consider when judging a person who aborts.

Regardless of the reason, it's a purposeful decision to terminate a life that is made in the image of God. I happen to have genetic deformities, so maybe you can now understand the reason why I HATE the evil inside of you.

You know the context is that is something to consider when judging a person who aborts.

This insane push spinning up inside your brain to find some manner of justification for you to murder the unborn. The reason doesn't matter. It's still murder.

You know the context is that is something to consider when judging a person who aborts.

He didn't protect Bathsheba. So please stop rambling. But can He? Yes. God will have mercy for his own reasons.

Yes, and that is something to consider one aborts. You are not properly reading my posts.

It's shocking that you are trying so hard to justify murder. And from my work a few years ago at a ministry for unwed mothers, yes, there are many who came to us after being raped and wanting help to keep their baby. Your naïveté is astounding, almost bordering on the criminal.

I find this insanely ironic. I would 100% help a baby to avoid abortion. You are changing the topic now.

Ironic, because if you enacted / incited capital punishment for murder of an embryo, you would be a criminal. Imagine that.

They ARE guilty in the eyes of God. There are NONE good. But you seem to not understand that Christian Wisdom is found in mercy by supporting LIFE, not killing it. One does not show the Love of God by giving out a morning after Pill.

2. If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

I'm glad to see you finally admit that the Bible is nonsense:

(Romans 5:12 NKJV) Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned​

You stated '''Everybody born deserves the death penalty''. That is not what the scripture is saying.

The word 'death' in scripture refers to a place outside of His presence. All in Hades for example were in 'death'. Adam and Eve entered 'death' when they sinned. 'Death' is not 'death penalty'.

Hades had SINNERS in both Abrahams bosom and hell. No salvation for any, yet some sinners not in fire. Read Luke 16 and stop making your own assumptions about cherry picked scriptures.

I'm not surprised. Perhaps you should try reading what is actually written, instead of making your own stuff up.

Ok nice to know. I can beat up a pregnant woman and if she loses the baby I am not guilty of ''life for a life''.

It is only when I am fighting another guy and accidentally hit her, that I will become guilty, right?

Rhema
(And you're still killing a baby.)

If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

-----------------------------------

Answer this question:

If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?

 

[th1bill]

Bill, read more closely. I never said that you called me any name. We both know that. I was merely commenting that even calling your brother a Moron "strikes Yehovah in the face with a fist," as you put it. It doesn't just need to be murder.

(Matthew 5:22 KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool (Moron in Greek), shall be in danger of hell fire.​

​

Then it's a Good thing that I'm not your teacher, or anyone's teacher for that matter.

(Matthew 23:8 NKJV) But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.​

But I am honored that you think me to be one, even though a miserable failure. (And that's calling me a name. Bill -1 Rhema - 0 )

God bless,
Rhema
If I was inclined to keep score.

And I was pointing, in a hopefilly understood extreme manor your awful habit of creating empty rabbit trails. Your post has nau8ghut to do with abortion.

 

[MedicBravo]

@MedicBravo @Dave M @Rhema



That is a serious accusation that you are making with Bill as your support. Prove to me that I am a murderer. Don't just say it. Imagine that.

Am I to assume that the clip from Bill is your A-Z argument? Bill makes a good point. But if you are using his point as the basis of your argument, it shows me you are new to this discussion and completely clueless.

I propose you go and do some research on the 'germinal stage' of pregnancy.

Abortion IS murder of the unborn regardless of stage of development.
Murder is killing of an innocent person and premeditated.

1. An unborn baby has it's own DNA and it a separate human being.
2. Can't change how we reproduce so regardless of how we look like, we are alive from conception.
3. If complications in a pregnancy then an EARLY birth is done.
4. If you or anyone supports this then an "accessory to murder".

You're most certainly NOT a Christian if you're pro-choice regardless who's reading this.

 

[KingJ]

Abortion IS murder of the unborn regardless of stage of development.
Murder is killing of an innocent person and premeditated.

1. An unborn baby has it's own DNA and it a separate human being.
2. Can't change how we reproduce so regardless of how we look like, we are alive from conception.
3. If complications in a pregnancy then an EARLY birth is done.
4. If you or anyone supports this then an "accessory to murder".

You're most certainly NOT a Christian if you're pro-choice regardless who's reading this.

I am not pro choice. I am against abortion.

But as a Christian is supposed to do, I judge all things 1 Cor 2:15. I have many times made posts with substantial evidence for degrees of sin and the importance of judging for this. This is how we examine and pass an examination of ourselves before God 1 Cor 11:31, Phil 2:12.

Thus, what is of interest to me on this topic and a very important fact to grasp is the degree of sin involved with an abortion.

So, I must ask you the same question I have asked Rhema,

''If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?''

My judgements are as follows:

1. A seed is a seed - killing it = 0/10 = No punishment
2. An embryo is an embryo (3/10) = 1 year community service
3. A fetus is a fetus (9.9/10) = 4 years in prison if the mother is not a Christian. If a Christian who should know better = 7 years prison.
4. A newly born baby is a newly born baby (10/10) = death penalty / life sentence
5. A child is a child (10/10) = death penalty / life sentence
6. An adult is an adult 10/10) = death penalty / life sentence.
7. Multiple abortions of fetal stage babies ( as some do do) = death penalty / life sentence.

 

[MadHermit]

The OP provides one text that one text on the sanctity of life that appeals to opponents of abortion and another that appeals to pro-choice advocates. The decisive text for me is Didache 4:2: "Thou shall not procure an abortion." The Didache or Teaching of the 12 Apostles was written in its final form around 95 AD, but the anti-abortion text appears in the 2 Ways section which scholars assign to a period several decades earlier. This prohibition stems from the NT period and must represent the values of the NT church because no competing text from Judaism or the early church contradicts it. Indeed, the testimony of the early church of the first few centurnies unanimously opposes abortionm\.









t

 

[MedicBravo]

I am not pro choice. I am against abortion.

But as a Christian is supposed to do, I judge all things 1 Cor 2:15. I have many times made posts with substantial evidence for degrees of sin and the importance of judging for this. This is how we examine and pass an examination of ourselves before God 1 Cor 11:31, Phil 2:12.

Thus, what is of interest to me on this topic and a very important fact to grasp is the degree of sin involved with an abortion.

So, I must ask you the same question I have asked Rhema,

''If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?''

My judgements are as follows:

1. A seed is a seed - killing it = 0/10 = No punishment
2. An embryo is an embryo (3/10) = 1 year community service
3. A fetus is a fetus (9.9/10) = 4 years in prison if the mother is not a Christian. If a Christian who should know better = 7 years prison.
4. A newly born baby is a newly born baby (10/10) = death penalty / life sentence
5. A child is a child (10/10) = death penalty / life sentence
6. An adult is an adult 10/10) = death penalty / life sentence.
7. Multiple abortions of fetal stage babies ( as some do do) = death penalty / life sentence.

God is the judge.
Human laws are largely flawed and it's great that you, me, or anyone else can't decide what is for all of humanity.
Murder IS the killing of the innocent.
If you're against it then there is no middle ground.
Your judgments are opinions. No one has the authority.

When I see someone who has a firearm and is attacked and then the other person/peoples death are the result of it that is good.
They've chosen to try to harm/kill another and if the other person succeeds their "punishment" is Just.
I don't make "What if you were the judge..." hypotheticals. No person can effectively do that job 100% of the time to every person accused of a crime.
So many people LOVE to gloat and brag about killing them. God's judgment on them will be Just and final and I'll lose NO sleep for it.

 

[th1bill]

I am not pro choice. I am against abortion.

But as a Christian is supposed to do, I judge all things 1 Cor 2:15. I have many times made posts with substantial evidence for degrees of sin and the importance of judging for this. This is how we examine and pass an examination of ourselves before God 1 Cor 11:31, Phil 2:12.

Thus, what is of interest to me on this topic and a very important fact to grasp is the degree of sin involved with an abortion.

So, I must ask you the same question I have asked Rhema,

''If you were a judge what would your punishment / judgement be? When you say ''murder / killing a baby'' it seems you believe in capital punishment from day one, is that correct?''

My judgements are as follows:

1. A seed is a seed - killing it = 0/10 = No punishment
2. An embryo is an embryo (3/10) = 1 year community service
3. A fetus is a fetus (9.9/10) = 4 years in prison if the mother is not a Christian. If a Christian who should know better = 7 years prison.
4. A newly born baby is a newly born baby (10/10) = death penalty / life sentence
5. A child is a child (10/10) = death penalty / life sentence
6. An adult is an adult 10/10) = death penalty / life sentence.
7. Multiple abortions of fetal stage babies ( as some do do) = death penalty / life sentence.

I can only find the mistranslated command that when translated into today's English reads, "If a man murders a man, kill him." Him in this command is correctly replaced with her in almost every instance.

 

[KingJ]

God is the judge.
Human laws are largely flawed and it's great that you, me, or anyone else can't decide what is for all of humanity.
Murder IS the killing of the innocent.
If you're against it then there is no middle ground.
Your judgments are opinions. No one has the authority.

When I see someone who has a firearm and is attacked and then the other person/peoples death are the result of it that is good.
They've chosen to try to harm/kill another and if the other person succeeds their "punishment" is Just.
I don't make "What if you were the judge..." hypotheticals. No person can effectively do that job 100% of the time to every person accused of a crime.
So many people LOVE to gloat and brag about killing them. God's judgment on them will be Just and final and I'll lose NO sleep for it.

I respect your opinion, but you are wrong.

Paul is crystal clear in 1 Cor 6:1-9 that Christians much judge matters and do so better then the unsaved.

Now if you keep stating that abortion at every week is MURDER, you realize you are demonizing abortionists at the maximum level? That is evil. It will encourage violence against abortionists. Don't you realize that?

This is why Christians must judge all matters and make sound statements.

Roman Christian laws make up most of the current laws in your country. ''Saying it is not our place'' is a cop out. It is most certainly ''our'' place. I have given scriptures for this in this thread. 1 Cor 6:1-9 makes the most powerful point you need to grasp.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Bill, read more closely. I never said that you called me any name. We both know that. I was merely commenting that even calling your brother a Moron "strikes Yehovah in the face with a fist," as you put it. It doesn't just need to be murder.

(Matthew 5:22 KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool (Moron in Greek), shall be in danger of hell fire.​

​

Then it's a Good thing that I'm not your teacher, or anyone's teacher for that matter.

(Matthew 23:8 NKJV) But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.​

But I am honored that you think me to be one, even though a miserable failure. (And that's calling me a name. Bill -1 Rhema - 0 )

God bless,
Rhema
If I was inclined to keep score.

You can run until you puke trying to escape but that day at the Great White Throne and in much the same way that day at the Bema Seat will be stood. When you, I, or anyone else "Publish" a post read by others,,, we are teaching.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Question. Are @Bill Taylor and @th1bill still the same person? Or has that all been fixed?

Thank you kindly,
Rhema

I fixed it

 

[MedicBravo]

I respect your opinion, but you are wrong.

Paul is crystal clear in 1 Cor 6:1-9 that Christians much judge matters and do so better then the unsaved.

Now if you keep stating that abortion at every week is MURDER, you realize you are demonizing abortionists at the maximum level? That is evil. It will encourage violence against abortionists. Don't you realize that?

This is why Christians must judge all matters and make sound statements.

Roman Christian laws make up most of the current laws in your country. ''Saying it is not our place'' is a cop out. It is most certainly ''our'' place. I have given scriptures for this in this thread. 1 Cor 6:1-9 makes the most powerful point you need to grasp.

Your "opinion" I'm wrong is simply that.
"you are demonizing abortionists at the maximum level?"
Sin is VERY serious and every pagan will find out if they don't change.
Murder of the unborn = Abortion. Every time regardless of stage of development and cause of pregnancy. Simple. Fact. God said it and your opinion otherwise is irrelevant.

There is NOT grey area with ANY sin.