You're correct! Need to go off and cool off.
I shouldn't be taking my bad mood on the ignorant or less-informed.
I've let the herectics get to me.
Cheers
MelC
We don't go to heaven when we die.
- Thread starter dchena
- Start date
You're correct! Need to go off and cool off.
I shouldn't be taking my bad mood on the ignorant or less-informed.
I've let the herectics get to me.
Cheers
MelC
Revelations ends at chapter 11 Starts All over in chapter 12 telling the same story a different way!
satan and the fallen angels are all ready kicked out of heaven!
they have caused all the evil on earth ,from the garden til now!
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
We follow Jesus 100%
He went to heaven [New Jerusalem] To prepare it for us!
We go to heave ,soon as we leave these bodies! I know ,because i have died ! I ask My LORD could I return to my body for my families sake! He allowed me!
This planet is no longer our home . Once born of God!
Our home is New Jerusalem. we are Part of god household and Family!
The new testament only started after the LORD died on the cross!
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Meaning HE had too be the first at everything .Then we follow HIM!
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
We MUST be with HIM .In order to return with HIM!
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world
God children are up there talking with each other and the LORD!
Sleep ,just means not working! Our spirit never sleeps!
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
So we see our family in the LORD is in heaven [New Jerusalem] And here waiting for our turn to go Home!
Thank YOU JESUS!
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
satan and the fallen angels are all ready kicked out of heaven!
they have caused all the evil on earth ,from the garden til now!
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
We follow Jesus 100%
He went to heaven [New Jerusalem] To prepare it for us!
We go to heave ,soon as we leave these bodies! I know ,because i have died ! I ask My LORD could I return to my body for my families sake! He allowed me!
This planet is no longer our home . Once born of God!
Our home is New Jerusalem. we are Part of god household and Family!
The new testament only started after the LORD died on the cross!
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Meaning HE had too be the first at everything .Then we follow HIM!
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
We MUST be with HIM .In order to return with HIM!
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world
God children are up there talking with each other and the LORD!
Sleep ,just means not working! Our spirit never sleeps!
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
So we see our family in the LORD is in heaven [New Jerusalem] And here waiting for our turn to go Home!
Thank YOU JESUS!
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
RJ
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I say this with the utmost of Faith, We are already in Heaven and our hope in Jesus Christ is complete, the perfect riches of God's grace to us!
Ephesians 2:6-7
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:6-7
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
Iceman
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I think that's taking Paul's eschatology a bit too far. While he does say that we who are of faith are already new creations, he also adds a particular level of apocalypticism to his theology.
So that when you're talking in terms of what Paul has written it is acurate to say that "we are, but we are not yet"
That is to say we are part of something now, that is promised in the future. Which is of course the parousia, or second coming and the final ressurection.
RJ
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You are trying to put a humanistic, almost secular spin on what is Spiritual and nothing to do with reality as we know it. God said that he is Spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth!
Paul was a witness to the truth like no other, in which, the mere presence of the Lord blinded him.Paul had no theology of who God was and what was to be, he was a messenger of God himself and a presenter of God's Holy word to us, not a Theologian.
We can't let human reality drive our understanding of what is spiritual. A Christian's salvation is of God and a spiritual reality and not a "study of" or "theology of" death or the end times.
Physically, we wait for and "end-time" or perhaps, if we are fortunate enough, " a twinkling of an eye". Spiritually, there is no time or space as we know it and there is no waiting! We are already with the "Alpha and Omega" now.
Colossians 3:2-3, "Set you minds on things above, not on earthy things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God." (NIV)
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RJ
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:shock: What, we agree again!... This is getting scary! LOL! Like I said: God, I love a New Year!
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Iceman
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Secular and humanist? That's an incredibly large call to make. One that implies fallacy in my own faith. The only possible response I can think of is get over yourself. There is nothing secular about what I said. Secular would be the heaven/hell dualism that was adopted from the hellenization of Christianity. As for humanism, I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion at all. I think you're trying to imply that what I said is my own personal idea, and not one from Scripture. Well in a moment I will show it's not.
How can you ever have read Paul and say he's not a theologian? He talks about God. That is the sheer definition of theology. You, by talking about scripture, and by talking about God means you have placed yourself firmly within the realm of theology. Your personal opinion of academics and scholarship, which I take it is incredibly low, is only a reflection of your understanding of theology. Which in turn is an indication of how seriously, and how actively you engage with Scripture.
Your dismissal of my opinion by claiming it's not relevant because it's theology is sheer avoidance.
Instead the simple fact is this. Paul was a theologian. I am a theologian. You are a theologian. Because we have all talked about God.
However to take Paul's own words to reinforce my point Paul's eschatological theology of new creation:
21 that athe creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" />22 For we know that the whole creation agroans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
23 aAnd not only this, but also we ourselves, having bthe first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves cgroan within ourselves, dwaiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, ethe redemption of our body.
(Rom 8:21-23 NAS)
This passage is actually returning to a point that Paul started to raise in Rom 5:3. The suffering that creation is subject to is sheerly eschatological. Hence why they are birth pangs. Paul is talking about the coming world. Which is heaven. Do not confuse the presence of the Spirit, which is with us, with the promised Christian hope. If we were in heaven now, we would not need the redemption of our bodies. Which is of course the resurrection. Not Jesus' but ours.
Do you think you will need a body in your purely spiritual heaven? To talk about resurrection isn't not humanism, that's traditional Christian eschatology. Straight from Paul. In Corinthians he even describes what those bodies are. Paul's concept is entirely physical, but even more Physical than what we understand. Jesus was resurrected, and thus had a body and was physical, but also capable of walking through walls the Gospels tell us. The term spiritual in Christian thought is almost synonymous with physical. It would be secular to separate the two. Our society only holds them separate because we inherited that idea from our philosophical ancestors...who were Greek. Paul and Jesus are of course Jewish and do not follow the same presumptions that our society makes.
Why would we groan with the world if we were already cut off from it? If heaven has nothing to do with earth why do would we in any way reflect its suffering? Instead we experience the birth pangs of new creation. We struggle with a world not yet born.
We are new creations in Jesus. We know how the world should be, and instead are presented with a world with suffering and pain. Why wouldn't we groan? And we await the final redemption of Jesus, the redemption of our bodies, and the world just as the prophet Isaiah describes repeatedly.
How can you say spiritually there is no time and space as we know? Genesis tells us this world is God's good creation and you are very quick to dismiss it. How can you presume that time isn't an essential part of not only our reality, but our very being if that is how God created us? Do you know better than God?
2 1aSet your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you have adied and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
(Col 3:2-3 NAS)
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RJ
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Secular and humanist? That's an incredibly large call to make. One that implies fallacy in my own faith. The only possible response I can think of is get over yourself. There is nothing secular about what I said. Secular would be the heaven/hell dualism that was adopted from the hellenization of Christianity. As for humanism, I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion at all. I think you're trying to imply that what I said is my own personal idea, and not one from Scripture. Well in a moment I will show it's not.
How can you ever have read Paul and say he's not a theologian? He talks about God. That is the sheer definition of theology. You, by talking about scripture, and by talking about God means you have placed yourself firmly within the realm of theology. Your personal opinion of academics and scholarship, which I take it is incredibly low, is only a reflection of your understanding of theology. Which in turn is an indication of how seriously, and how actively you engage with Scripture.
Your dismissal of my opinion by claiming it's not relevant because it's theology is sheer avoidance.
Instead the simple fact is this. Paul was a theologian. I am a theologian. You are a theologian. Because we have all talked about God.
However to take Paul's own words to reinforce my point Paul's eschatological theology of new creation:
21 that athe creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
22 For we know that the whole creation agroans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
23 aAnd not only this, but also we ourselves, having bthe first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves cgroan within ourselves, dwaiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, ethe redemption of our body.
(Rom 8:21-23 NAS)
This passage is actually returning to a point that Paul started to raise in Rom 5:3. The suffering that creation is subject to is sheerly eschatological. Hence why they are birth pangs. Paul is talking about the coming world. Which is heaven. Do not confuse the presence of the Spirit, which is with us, with the promised Christian hope. If we were in heaven now, we would not need the redemption of our bodies. Which is of course the resurrection. Not Jesus' but ours.
Do you think you will need a body in your purely spiritual heaven? To talk about resurrection isn't not humanism, that's traditional Christian eschatology. Straight from Paul. In Corinthians he even describes what those bodies are. Paul's concept is entirely physical, but even more Physical than what we understand. Jesus was resurrected, and thus had a body and was physical, but also capable of walking through walls the Gospels tell us. The term spiritual in Christian thought is almost synonymous with physical. It would be secular to separate the two. Our society only holds them separate because we inherited that idea from our philosophical ancestors...who were Greek. Paul and Jesus are of course Jewish and do not follow the same presumptions that our society makes.
Why would we groan with the world if we were already cut off from it? If heaven has nothing to do with earth why do would we in any way reflect its suffering? Instead we experience the birth pangs of new creation. We struggle with a world not yet born.
We are new creations in Jesus. We know how the world should be, and instead are presented with a world with suffering and pain. Why wouldn't we groan? And we await the final redemption of Jesus, the redemption of our bodies, and the world just as the prophet Isaiah describes repeatedly.
How can you say spiritually there is no time and space as we know? Genesis tells us this world is God's good creation and you are very quick to dismiss it. How can you presume that time isn't an essential part of not only our reality, but our very being if that is how God created us? Do you know better than God?
2 1aSet your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you have adied and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
(Col 3:2-3 NAS)
And the Love of the Lord and his peace be with you!
RJ
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Yes, you can put a fork in me!
april showers
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The reason I was hesitant to join this forum...has been realized. Everyone is fighting and getting upset with each other. Why? Are any of us perfect? Do any of us know the complete truth? Aren't we all on a learning curve? Aren't we here to explore and discover together? If not, I will gladly move on to another more welcoming thread.
My thoughts were offered for discussion purposes. I did not mean to upset anyone. I also did not mean to imply that I am a practicing Jew because I am not. I became a believer in Yeshua many years ago, to the great disappointment of my family. Since then I have been searching for the real Gospel, because I believe it has been obscured over the centuries due to the influx of paganism and many other false teachings.
I appreciated the comments in the thread - even if I don't agree - which were written with patience and kindness. I would rather go to a church with wrong doctrine where the people act right, than go to a church with "perfect" doctrine where the people are mean and judgmental.
What is the final measure of our faith? Did Jesus ever talk to anyone about their doctrine? No. What mattered to Him was (is) behavior.
I am sorry that with my large family and many problems, I am not able to meet your standards of doctrinal correctness (if, indeed, you have the truth), or quote all the Scriptures to make you happy and prove to you how educated I am and how much I've studied.
At this point, I rely on God for everything because this is a picture of my life:
2 Corinthians 1:8 (King James Version)
<SUP id=en-KJV-28809 class=versenum>8</SUP>For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
My thoughts were offered for discussion purposes. I did not mean to upset anyone. I also did not mean to imply that I am a practicing Jew because I am not. I became a believer in Yeshua many years ago, to the great disappointment of my family. Since then I have been searching for the real Gospel, because I believe it has been obscured over the centuries due to the influx of paganism and many other false teachings.
I appreciated the comments in the thread - even if I don't agree - which were written with patience and kindness. I would rather go to a church with wrong doctrine where the people act right, than go to a church with "perfect" doctrine where the people are mean and judgmental.
What is the final measure of our faith? Did Jesus ever talk to anyone about their doctrine? No. What mattered to Him was (is) behavior.
I am sorry that with my large family and many problems, I am not able to meet your standards of doctrinal correctness (if, indeed, you have the truth), or quote all the Scriptures to make you happy and prove to you how educated I am and how much I've studied.
At this point, I rely on God for everything because this is a picture of my life:
2 Corinthians 1:8 (King James Version)
<SUP id=en-KJV-28809 class=versenum>8</SUP>For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
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SpiritLedEd
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April, I hope you stick around here at TalkJesus, I really do. We need voices of calm, respectful discussion on this forum. I, myself, have just recently opened my thinking to understand something of the pagan practices that have invaded the church. Know that the idea of pagan practices invading the church offends the religious pride of many and sends them into a rage. Hang in there. Don't give up.
Spirit Led Ed (SLE)
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Thank you Boenageres (I hope I spelled that correctly) for bringing to light Ecclesiastes 12:7.....the corruptable flesh returns to the earth from which it came, but the soul/spirit (which can/will be incorruptable/immortal if we have freely chosen Him before we die on this earth) goes directly back to Our Father who gave it........
Not sure where the originator of this post is truly going as there was not much posted beyond the verses that he/she believes tell us that we do not go to heaven when we die (maybe I need to read more than 2 pages of posts, but I just could not read anymore without posting a reply). Maybe it's not "heaven" as we've come accustomed to think of "heaven" as, but there's no doubt we return to our Father....to me, wherever He is is heaven, even if it's before Jesus returns to earth to defeat satan once and for all.
Also, thank you to all of the other posters for all the shining examples of verses that you have posted that clearly tell us that we return to Our Father when we breathe our last breath on this earth as we know it today. (you've made my posting to this thread very easy, hehe).....
Not sure where the originator of this post is truly going as there was not much posted beyond the verses that he/she believes tell us that we do not go to heaven when we die (maybe I need to read more than 2 pages of posts, but I just could not read anymore without posting a reply). Maybe it's not "heaven" as we've come accustomed to think of "heaven" as, but there's no doubt we return to our Father....to me, wherever He is is heaven, even if it's before Jesus returns to earth to defeat satan once and for all.
Also, thank you to all of the other posters for all the shining examples of verses that you have posted that clearly tell us that we return to Our Father when we breathe our last breath on this earth as we know it today. (you've made my posting to this thread very easy, hehe).....
Quote:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset;"> Originally Posted by april showers
I became a believer in Yeshua many years ago, to the great disappointment of my family. Since then I have been searching for the real Gospel, because I believe it has been obscured over the centuries due to the influx of paganism and many other false teachings.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
April, I hope you stick around here at TalkJesus, I really do. We need voices of calm, respectful discussion on this forum. I, myself, have just recently opened my thinking to understand something of the pagan practices that have invaded the church. Know that the idea of pagan practices invading the church offends the religious pride of many and sends them into a rage. Hang in there. Don't give up.
Spirit Led Ed (SLE)
absolutely....so many of man's traditions have invaded the churches for so many reasons (politics, paganism, etc, etc) but, unfortunately so many of our brothers and sisters in Christ are still blind to this....hopefully we can get a group or some kind of discussion going on this topic as it is one that very much needs to be addressed and hopefully will help tremendously when it comes to studying and understanding Our Father's word.....wonderful two posts.....
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset;"> Originally Posted by april showers
I became a believer in Yeshua many years ago, to the great disappointment of my family. Since then I have been searching for the real Gospel, because I believe it has been obscured over the centuries due to the influx of paganism and many other false teachings.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
April, I hope you stick around here at TalkJesus, I really do. We need voices of calm, respectful discussion on this forum. I, myself, have just recently opened my thinking to understand something of the pagan practices that have invaded the church. Know that the idea of pagan practices invading the church offends the religious pride of many and sends them into a rage. Hang in there. Don't give up.
Spirit Led Ed (SLE)
absolutely....so many of man's traditions have invaded the churches for so many reasons (politics, paganism, etc, etc) but, unfortunately so many of our brothers and sisters in Christ are still blind to this....hopefully we can get a group or some kind of discussion going on this topic as it is one that very much needs to be addressed and hopefully will help tremendously when it comes to studying and understanding Our Father's word.....wonderful two posts.....
The reason I was hesitant to join this forum...has been realized. Everyone is fighting and getting upset with each other. Why? Are any of us perfect? Do any of us know the complete truth? Aren't we all on a learning curve? Aren't we here to explore and discover together? If not, I will gladly move on to another more welcoming thread.
Please stay with us and help promote the cause of Jesus.
Where-ever we go we meet Christian folks who want to argue about anything. Jesus is the central theme of the forums here.
Thanks for your input and contribution.
Please stay with us and help promote the cause of Jesus.
Where-ever we go we meet Christian folks who want to argue about anything. Jesus is the central theme of the forums here.
Thanks for your input and contribution.
RJ
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each one is in the spiritual realm to which he is best suited
I call you attention to this from 1 Corinthians 13:
9We don't know everything,
and our prophecies are not complete. 10But what is perfect
will someday appear, and what isn't perfect will then disappear.
11When we were children, we thought and reasoned
as children do. But when we grew up, we quit our childish ways.
12Now all we can see of God is like a cloudy picture
in a mirror. Later we will see him face to face.
We don't know everything, but then we will,
just as God completely understands us.
When we die, we will be Made perfect in order to look at God "Face to Face", something that was almost unspeakable by the Jew of that day. Also, we will know as well as God knows us. No matter what, it will be awesome for all of us.
]believer will receive back his/her body in glorified form and be able to live on the earth, governing the saved nations of the world. At least that is my understanding of the future.[/COLOR]
Though the resurrection is yet future, even for those who die now there is immediate reward. Paul knew that to die would mean to be "with the Lord" (Phil. 1:22-24; 2 Cor. 5:6). By this he indicated that the spirits of those who die in union with Christ go to be with their Lord at the time of their physical death. This is not the same as the resurrection. The resurrection would occur at the rapture, when Christ returns for his church, and this would be the time when all will receive their glorified bodies. So we do not have to wait until the resurrection to see our Lord in heaven. Even to the criminal who had accepted Christ as his Savior during their hour of death, Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). When Stephen was being stoned to death, he cried out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" (Acts 7:59). Obviously, he held the same hope of immediate reward as Paul did.
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