Vicarious Law-Keeping?

[NetChaplain]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

To say the law only refers to the Levitical preisthood is incorrect, and then to say there is no more law when the law also includes the 10 commandments is misleading at best. You should be saying, "the Levitical preisthood no longer exists," then we would be in agreement.

The Decalogue (Ten Commandments) is what initiated the Law or covenant with Israel and the Aaronic Priesthood, in which the Levites served, was added to it; this is the entire Mosaic Law.

All the Law was fulfilled by Christ when He said on the Cross "It is finished" (John 19:30). Also, the promise to Abraham and his descendants was made before the Law, so, the Law was brought in along side the promise "four hundred and thirty years" later, which Paul said could not annul that promise, even though Israel broke this covenant (Gal 3:17).

I want you to know that what I'm sharing with you is not out of contention, which I believe is the same for you.

I believe His (Christ) commandments (Rev 22:14) are the two great commandments (Mat 22:40), which is what the Law pointed to but couldn't be done without the Spirit.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

From Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 The entire book is completely relevant today for all of GOD's elect.
[h=3]2 Timothy 3:15-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Can you tell me which scriptures are excluded from the word 'all' ?

 

[NetChaplain]

From Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 The entire book is completely relevant today for all of GOD's elect.
2 Timothy 3:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Can you tell me which scriptures are excluded from the word 'all' ?

Hi El H and God's glessings to your Family! The Law is Scripture which is profitable to understand what God's intentions were for it, but righteousness did not come from the Law. "For if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" (Gal 2:21).

 

[David777]

From Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 The entire book is completely relevant today for all of GOD's elect.
2 Timothy 3:15-17

King James Version (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Can you tell me which scriptures are excluded from the word 'all' ?

Here is a passage that I am sure does not apply to gentiles.
It may be excluded as it was part of the covenant between God
and the children of Israel.

Exodus 35
King James Version (KJV)

1 And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them,
These are the words which the Lord hath commanded, that ye should do them.

2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day,
a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Hi El H and God's glessings to your Family! The Law is Scripture which is profitable to understand what God's intentions were for it, but righteousness did not come from the Law. "For if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" (Gal 2:21).

You're right of course. Righteousness doesn't come from the law. Father said that Jesus became sin for us so that we could become the righteousness of God in the Aninting of Jesus. Jesus became sin ...we became the righteousness of God.(if we walk in LOVE)

Concerning living by the law though a man asked Jesus one day...


Matthew 22:36-40 (Contemporary English Version)



[h=3]Matthew 22:36-40[/h]Contemporary English Version (CEV)

36 “Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus answered:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. 38 This is the first and most important commandment. 39 The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, “Love others as much as you love yourself.” 40 All the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets[a] are based on these two commandments.

If we keep these two commandments, we keep all of the Old Covenant law. So why sweat about keeping the law? Walk in love. Well...truly...you will not work harder at anything in your life than walking in love. LOL Its not an easy thing to die to self continually.

 

[jiggyfly]

I agree all scripture is profitable to us, which would include Paul's writings and especially this part.

19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.
Gal 3:19 (NLT)

Now since God has established a new way (covenant) with us HolySpirit is revealing sin and convicting us, so in comparison with the old way (covenant) this is a much better way don't you think?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Amen on that my friend!!

 

[NetChaplain]

Simply put the Law points us to our Savior. Is like a mirror that lets us look at our filthyness. Paul aknowledge the Law as good, just and holy. Why cant anybody else?
What would this society be like without laws? Imagine that right. Us being left to ourselves would not be a good thing. Actually turn on the news and se what society who dont go by rules live and axts of senseless crime they commit. Now how much more us who are trying to live right need laws to follow?

I agree with you Bgsda. The point is not that God's law is no longer just and holy, which characteristics cannot change; but that He has never desired mans service to Him to be of our own sufficiency, not "sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God; who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor 3:6, 7).

The "letter" or Law kills by revealing (similar to what you've indicated) we're under Adam's curse of sin, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse. No man is justified by the law in the sight of God" (Gal 3:10, 11). The Law was not intended to redeem but condemn;
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us" (3:13). Christ's sacrifice broke the curse incurred by Adam and Eve (Gen 3:17) which extends through all covenants, esp. that of Israel's Law Covenant.

 

[Swordsman4JC]

William R. Newell, Romans, Verse by Verse[/QUOTE]


Did you quote all this? from someone elses commentary?

 

[NetChaplain]

William R. Newell, Romans, Verse by Verse

Did you quote all this? from someone elses commentary?

Hi Swordsman and God's blessings to your Family! The OP is not a commentary but is the title of the book, which is in commentary form.

 

[Swordsman4JC]

Christ fulfilled all the laws, if he didnt he could not have been the supreme sacrifce, he done by doing all the ten, not breaking one of them but was obedient to them, and he was the blood sacrifice that was given under the law..by given himself for it, the lamb to be slain..


and i thought that post was a copy..... no offence but what did he show YOU.?

 

[NetChaplain]

Christ fulfilled all the laws, if he didnt he could not have been the supreme sacrifce, he done by doing all the ten, not breaking one of them but was obedient to them, and he was the blood sacrifice that was given under the law..by given himself for it, the lamb to be slain..
and i thought that post was a copy..... no offence but what did he show YOU.?

Hi and God's blessings to your Family! Listing credit at the end of material indicates quotation from another source and is also how it is shown that it's not original from the writer. Also, copy-write laws require it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "what did he show YOU.?" You would need to be more specific concerning a certain part of it.

 

[bgsda]

Please read Mark 7:6-9 pray first and tell me what it is that the Holy Spirit is telling you.

 

[David777]

Please read Mark 7:6-9 pray first and tell me what it is that the Holy Spirit is telling you.

Hello bgsda.

Mark 7:6-7

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him,
“Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders,
but eat bread with unwashed hands?”


6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites,
as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me'.


7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

Context is all in scripture.

The subject of these verses is "this people" which is a direct reference
to the Jews.

Jesus is definitely not addressing the Gentiles since they do not know
God.

It is very important to be aware that Jesus was sent to the Jews first.

How do you read these passages bgsda?

 

[jason h]

Hi everyone. I may be wrong but part of what may be going on here is that everyone is 'hearing' what they think the other poster is saying incorrectly. I've found in my own life that whenever I hear someone preach pure grace, which is correct, immediately thoughts fire up within me such as, "he's preaching we can do whatever we want." Obviously this is my mind hearing this. Likewise when I hear preaching on 'we have to do more', I immediately think "there's nothing I can do to merit God's love."

The $20,000 question is, how can a man be right with God? I dont think anyone in this thread would agree that the law can make us right with God since the law eventually, through Jesus' interpretation of it and your own life experience if you're honest, shows us how messed up we really are. Also The 2 commandments Jesus gave I find, if im honest with myself, I dont even keep those all the time. Im glad to know that I'll stand before Him and not a law.

That being said, I dont try to imply the law is worthless. It is holy and part of scripture and does give me insight into how God reacts to people and how he does care for them. But i am a gentile from a different time am and told that I am God's workmenship created in Christ Jesus. I dont have a clue how He accomplishes that(behind the scenes) but I dont know that I have to. He makes it clear to me that it will be by His Spirit and I cant even bring it along(Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? - gal 3:3) I quote that only because for some time I did try to 'help' bring it along to much failure everytime! So now I just keep His word close, pray, and watch for open doors with those in my sphere of life. I dont do all these well either.