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Trying to explain the trinity

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My friend, people look up a word in the Strong's, find several definitions and tend to pick the one that suits their theology rather then the grammatical structure of the sentence. We have already seen that demonstrated earlier in this thread and it is obvious that this can make a real mess out if the original intent and meaning.
 
That is wisdom!
God already seen this and gave us a Part of Him-self !

We either live by FAITH or Not?


Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
 
*1
If you have a Red Letter Edition (quotes made by Jesus) with Greek-Hebrew/Chaldee keys, grammatical helps& Strong's you have the single most accurate bible possible

*2
If it were just the KJV and Strong's it would be easy to understand what you are saying.

Yes Boanerges, as I agreed with jiggyfly in his post, for exactly the reason you mentioned. (quote marked *2)

However as jiggyfly does so often with my posts he omitted the most critical part of what I said and corrected me based only a part of what I said. (quote marked *1) What is underlined is what appears to have miraculously vanished when jiggyfly found it necessary to correct me. hmmm.

This discussion will be continued in it own thread, where it belongs. Likely under the title, "What Makes An Accurate Bible". It is very important especially these days with literally 1000's of bibles available. It is also a recurring theme in the chat zone.

Thank you Boanerges for your reply, see you soon. Do you want me to send you a p.m. when I post the thread on the bible?

spirit1st AMEN brother... faith is just that way >> lol. Either you have it or you don't. There simply is no middle ground on that.

May you both keep the will of the Lord well.
 
Boargenes,

I will not be part of hijacking this thread just because you have "an axe to grind", regarding the New World Translation and your anguish over the fact that it does not support the "trinity". I will stay on topic concerning the "trinity", and present more of a case against the trinity, allowing the Bible to speak for itself rather than forcing "a square peg in a round hole." I will though give some details concerning the New World Translation. The basis for the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the New Testament) of the New World Translation was the Greek master text, The New Testament in the Original Greek (originally published 1881), by Westcott and Hort. The Greek texts of Nestle, Bover, Merk and others were also considered.

The Masoretic Hebrew text used for the preparation of the English text of the Hebrew Scripture (commonly called the Old Testament) portion of the New World Translation was the Codex Leningrad B 19A (of U.S.S.R.), as presented in R. Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica (BHK), seventh, eighth and ninth editions (1951-55), using an updated work known as Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (BHS), 1977 edition for the footnotes of the 1984 reference Bible.

This translation is presented in modern English, using current speech forms, and does not use archaic English even in the various prayers and addresses to God. Thus, the New World Translation does not use the now-sanctimonious formal pronouns thou, thy, thine, thee and ye, with their corresponding verb inflections. Hence, your saying that the New World Translation was "translated with only a Strong's Concordance and a very limited understanding of the original language" is "way off in left field". Again, you have failed to do your "homework", but have tried to undermine the New World Translation just because it doesn't fit your trinitarian theory.

Almost all trinitarians have "a beef" with the New World Translation, notwithstanding Bruce Metzger. However, of John 3:13 and the words at the end of this scripture in many Bibles "which is in heaven", many ancient Greek manuscripts do not include this phrase, including the respected Sinaitic Manuscript and the Vatican Manuscript No. 1209, both of the fourth century.

Thus, the questionable words were rejected by scholars B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort in preparing their master Greek text, upon which the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures was based. Similarly, the words are omitted from The Greek New Testament (3rd edition, 1975) by the United Bible Society.

Commenting on this fact, Bruce M. Metzger writes: “The majority of the Committee, impressed by the quality of the external attestation supporting the shorter reading [which omits the phrase], regarded the words [“which is in heaven”] as an interpretative gloss, reflecting later Christological development.” That is to say, the words evidently were added by a copyist at a later time, perhaps after the doctrine of a triune god had been absorbed from non-Christian religions.

The King James Bible, American Standard, Young's Bible, Darby's Bible, Weymouth's New Testament, Webster's Bible, International Standard Version, and The New King James Version, to note just a few, have not removed the spurious addition, but retained it, along with the alteration of "who" into a contraction for "God" at 1 Timothy 3:16, making it appear to say "God was manifest in the flesh" (King James Bible, Darby's Bible, Webster's Bible, Young's Bible, The New King James Bible) instead of "he who was manifested in the flesh", referring to Jesus, not God.

The New Kings James Bible centernote admits that the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament and the United Bible Societies third edition reads "who" and not "God." And Why ? Because the Codex Sinaiticus, of about 350 C.E., reads "he" instead of "God". Thus, the New World Translation, which says "He was made manifest in the flesh" is accurate, following the oldest Greek manuscripts.(see the online interlinear Scripture4all ) This also takes out some of the "ground" for trinitarians. For those who want to know what the Bible really teaches, should we not be greatly interested in what is accurate rather than what is popular.

Furthermore, the King James and New King James Bible still retains the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (verse 8) And there are three witness bearers on earth" at 1 John 5:7, 8, despite the fact that the Codex Sinaiticus of the fourth Century C.E., Codex Alexandrinus of the fifth century C.E., Codex Vaticanus of the fourth century C.E., Latin Vulgate of about 400 C.E., and Philoxenian-Harclean Syriac Version, sixth and seventh cent. C.E., omit these words. The New World Translation does likewise, ensuring accuracy.

A footnote in The Jerusalem Bible, a Catholic translation, says that these words are “not in any of the early Greek MSS [manuscripts], or any of the early translations, or in the best MSS of the Vulg[ate] itself.” A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, by Bruce Metzger (1975, pp. 716-718), traces in detail the history of the spurious passage. It states that the passage is first found in a treatise entitled Liber Apologeticus, of the fourth century, and that it appears in Old Latin and Vulgate manuscripts of the Scriptures, beginning in the sixth century.

So which is more accurate, the King James Bible or the New World Translation ? Which can be more trusted ? Why have both the King James and New King James Bibles not removed them despite the overwhelming evidence that these words were added by someone to promote the trinity ? Is this just ? Why have they continued to support this collusion ?

This is an out and out lying addition. Yet, you apparently agree with this. This is no different than finding a federal judge as being corrupt, having put on a front as one for justice, but now is found out as one who secretly took bribes and tampered with the witnesses. And yet, he stays on the bench. Most are not really interested in what is accurate, but what is "orthodox" in order not to "rock the boat". This was also true in Jesus day, for most were content with the "staus quo", just be a good member of the synagogue. That is why the parents of the man born blind were afraid to "ruffle any feathers".(John 9:20-23)
 
I will not be part of hijacking this thread just because you have "an axe to grind

No ax just facts. This is not hijacking since you are trying to use that faulty mistranslation as proof-text for anti biblical doctrine. it is merely a help for those who could be mislead.
Have a blessed day,
your friend Larry.
 
No ax just facts. This is not hijacking since you are trying to use that faulty mistranslation as proof-text for anti biblical doctrine. it is merely a help for those who could be mislead.
Have a blessed day,
your friend Larry.

Larry,

You readily accept both the King James and New King James Bibles that blatantly have within their pages of intentionally tampered additions for the purpose of supporting the trinity.(1 Timothy 3:16: "God was manifest in the flesh", instead of the original reading: "He who was made manifest in the flesh"; 1 John 5:7, 8: the addition of "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (verse 8) And there are three witness bearers on earth"; not in any of the oldest manuscripts ) .

Rather than be someone wants that which is accurate, you have chosen to give support to faulty translations or renderings. This is no different than accepting counterfeit money over genuine, or the changing of a $10 bill into a $100 bill by adding a zero.

An, as a side note, concerning Number 1:52, the The Bible Knowledge Commentary: Old Testament, by John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck (1985, pg 217), mentions that "a standard (degel, vv 2-3) identified each three tribe division" in the book of Numbers. The New World Translation clarified the Hebrew, digh·loh´ (from de´ghel), explaining that “signs for the house of their fathers” were provided to help a person find his proper place in the camp. (Num 2:2) Since the Hebrew expression de´ghel, rendered “three-tribe division,” also means “banner” (as in Ca 2:4), it is possible that there were tribal markers as well as family ensigns."

Most Bibles fail to provide details that the twelve tribes were divided into three-tribe divisions, with "signs" as a way of finding their home location amongst of over 3 million people while traveling for forty years in the wilderness.
 
I would like to share something that may cause more questions than actually answer the one asked. I prayed about this and came up with this scenario. I invite my family over for dinner. Everyone comes but my oldest son. The family is there, but not the Whole family. Family can mean two or twenty. Also can this Family can be expressed in many different ways. Close family, immediate family, distant relatives ect. What exactly makes the Family whole? God "the Word" must not mean a singular thing. If God is Love and God is Light and God is Spirit, the Word ect., then God "IS". He is the whole shebang. Hope this helps.
 
arry, You readily accept both the King James and New King James Bibles that blatantly have within their pages of intentionally tampered additions for the purpose of supporting the trinity.(1 Timothy 3:16: "God was manifest in the flesh", instead of the original reading: "He who was made manifest in the flesh"; 1 John 5:7, 8: the addition of "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (verse 8

You have a right to your opinion. I personally will not use a cultist reference book (I can't really call it a bible) like the NWT but I do use the KJV around 30 other translations on a regular basis.
As I mentioned already a really "high level" J Witness friend of mine sat down and examined the scriptures with me admitting to re-translating scripture so as to "not give the impression" of doctrines the JW's did not support. He is fairly prominent and would not want me publishing his name in that admission. All I can say is that if you rewrite the Word of God to suit you doctrine you are simply left with man's corruption. That would never be suitable for proof-text and doctrine.
 
Wow, I thought we all knew the ramifications of misinterpreting the scripture. Just goes to show, you cant believe everything you read.
 
I'm closing this thread. Fourteen pages is enough dialogue to get the differing opinions discussed.

SLE
 
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