Tithing?

[Blademan]

What does it matter what the church spends on the building? Like God is going to run out of money for the poor or something. God is not broke people!!!!!

Well, there's a novel approach. Hmm. Ok, let's apply your reasoning to Paul's words in the NT:

Why did Paul need for there to be collections for the persecuted believers in Israel? After all, God isn't broke, right? So, those believers in Ephesus, Phillipi, Derbe, and all of Asia Minor, should really have spent their collections on buildings for themselves. After all, God isn't broke, people! Those Israelites could have gotten what they need from the Lord.

The building itself is just a meeting place, and is not the real church or body of Christ.

Tell that to Chucky.

So who decides what is to expensive? Are the churches not suppose to own property and sell off all their land to give to the poor.

Where is that commanded?

Should my pastor sell his Rolex and give that money to the poor. Should we not have nice flowers and just let the weeds grow, giving that money to the poor?

This is a false dilemma, and an extreme to which nobody was suggesting.

I will gladly put our church against any other church when it comes to giving and supplying the poor...

If you read my posts more carefully, I stated that my comments were in reference to MOST organizations, not ALL organizations. I never made my comments all-inclusive in all that I've said about institutionalism throughout all my posts.

I suppose we should just preach from a small one room shack on a hill, and God forbid if someone has a better looking shack than me.

:suspicious: Yeah. Give it a try sometime.

I guess I might have to add a chair or two, just to out do them. No, I am more humble than that. I'll tear it down and give fire wood to the poor.

Better warm than fancy.

Who has the right to say to much is to much. Let's go to Microsoft and demand they sell everything and give it to the poor.

Another straw man... Don't light a match near him...

Oh, that's not a church building, we can't do that. God's people are not suppose to have the best.

Your making some very hasty generalizations about my post that have nothing to do with the thrust and scope of what I actually said.

But, do rave on...this is interesting...:speaker:

I guess my Pastor will have to sell his Jet airplane. People come to well to do Pastors and tell them that they should sell their airplane or nice car and use that money for the poor.

Copeland would love you on his team. Have you applied yet? He needs someone who can justify his having gotten rich from merchandising the Gospel.

What a bunch of hypocrites!!! Sell, your car first, then WALK over to the pastor and tell him how wasteful he has been and sell his car. You can both ride your bicycles to church, until someone tells you that your bicycle is just way to nice, and then sell that also.

NOW you're talking. Preach it, bro.

I know my boasting is not good, God has blessed us and all the credit goes to him.

You're "pastor" can actually afford a jet? Wow. Can I get on his staff and get some of that pie? I have religious credentials.

But to think that a church should not have the best, is the same thing Judas told Jesus when that perfume was being poured on his feet.

Wow. Professing believer's lavishing their best on themselves is the same thing as pouring an oil worth a whole year's salary on Jesus' feet?

Huh! And I thought the mormons and jehovah's witnesses were cultish and wrong. I better go and appologize to them for ever upholding scriptural standards for truth and integrity against their teachings and beliefs.

That should have been sold and given to the poor. Like, Jesus was not worth it.... We don't want to sound like Judas do we?

So, your building is similar to the Feet of the Master...the very Feet John the Baptist said he was not worthy of even touching the sandal sashes?

You've made some very interesting comparisons that I doubt your "pastor" would ever agree with...but then who knows what kind of guy he is. Maybe he'd fall right into step with you on this.

What do you think?

 

[beam]

Dear brother Mike and dear brother Blademan,

When are you going to call a truce and release each other to your own convictions.

I am not fooled by the screen, there is division coming between you two and NOT just on your beliefs or convictions. I see Mike defending his belief till the end, i see you blademan being blatantly sarcastic because Mike is not budging.

Come on already, find a topic you can agree on!

Lord i loose your banner of love over these two precious brothers and bind those cords of love, agreement and unity ever so tightly around them in Jesus name-amen

Love you both
beam

 

[Brother Mike]

ok..... gee

Loading scriptures in to barrel, sharping my sword, Whats this??

A message from my Dear Sister Beam?

oh, no................ Your right, you are completely right.

Ok, I love you brother blademan:cry-animated:

even if you do steal from God......


Joking aside. Brother Copeland has sent all the material I needed free, while I was um... locked up sort of. His ministry sent wonderful encouraging letters, and all the books and tapes were free.

All that information on faith was put to the test as my son was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer in the year 2000. I am very thankful for Brother Copeland. He is also the one that convinced my Pastor years ago that it was possible to have a plane, as he sat my Pastor in his plane and told him to pretend it was his. My Pastor had nothing at the time, but knew God was dealing with him on getting a plane, and it just did not seem possible. (They are not cheap!!!) Brother Copeland helped his faith, and even allows our Pastor to speak on the Believers Voice of Victory.
Kenneth comes and sees us once a year for the Branson Victory Campaign and at 74 years old, he is truly an amazing person.

God Bless everyone. Brother Blademan, your post was so funny and remarks so witty that I have to concede this triad of scriptures. As much as I don't like it, Beam is right. I suppose I did go off the deep end and take what you posted, way out there.

BE Blessed, I am done with the SECOND tithing thread!!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Blademan]

Dear brother Mike and dear brother Blademan,

When are you going to call a truce and release each other to your own convictions.

Beam, you've missed something in all this.

Mike isn't serious. He's a dear man who's playing the devil's advocate (you know, Satan's side that upholds a materialist's Gospel) in his posts, and I'm countering by simply playing along, thus providing the come-backs to what he's portraying as the genuine article when it comes to the predominant materialist's Gospel of MOST of institutional Christianity.

I am not fooled by the screen, there is division coming between you two and NOT just on your beliefs or convictions. I see Mike defending his belief till the end, i see you blademan being blatantly sarcastic because Mike is not budging.

That's the way the game is played. Mike is doing a magnificent job of showing the materialists the genuine warp in their convictions, which is of the devil.

Don't you see? Satan WANTS people to justify their denial of meeting genuine needs so that we can all lavish the biggest portion of our giving right back upon ourselves, thus providing for ourselves the best that money can buy.

Satan WANTS people to think that they're giving to God by handing the lion's share of their giving over to religious institutions, with a miniscule portion going for the meeting of genuine needs and provision for the genuine workers in God's work.

I admire Mike for his playing the part so well.

Mike, don't stop. We need to get this message out in the form of this screenplay we've both provided in this thread. This is what many people need in order to see how they've placed the cart before the horse.

Satan is a masterful deceiver. He needs to be revealed for what he is, and one of the best and proven methods is to play something out to which everyone can relate.

Mike and I are buddies...peas in a pod. We both already came to agreement further back, of which you praised, and so now we've changed gears in order to show the satanic, evil side of this temptation to wicked justifications we've all heard at various times through various mediums.

Relax, and enjoy. Mike is the :star: here. He's center stage now. Shhh. The lights are dimming. The show must go on...and it will...in almost every church organization in existence today.

 

[Blademan]

Loading scriptures in to barrel, sharping my sword, Whats this??

A message from my Dear Sister Beam?

oh, no................ Your right, you are completely right.

Ok, I love you brother blademan:cry-animated:

even if you do steal from God......

(Snicker, snort) He he. I have to hand it to you. You're very good at this. Nice touch.

Be careful, though. I don't think some people have quite the stomach for something so strong. If we bowl them over too forcefully with the seeming fun (even though this is serious business) we're poking at the materialist's Gospel, they might walk out in disgust. They need to be fed the sour, foul nature of that false gospel in small morsels at a time. We need to be more subtle, and bring it on full force a little at a time. You know, like boiling a frog while he languishes, turning up the heat just a little at a time until he realizes it's too late...

Joking aside. Brother Copeland has sent all the material I needed free, while I was um... locked up sort of. His ministry sent wonderful encouraging letters, and all the books and tapes were free.

Yes, all joking aside, I agree that God can reach people through any means of His choosing. After all, if God could use a wicked, evil, materialist man like pharoah to His glory, then He can certainly use a man like Copeland to reach people in their situation. That, of course, doesn't justify the evil of many of Copeland's materialist teachings, but it does speak loud volumes to the fact that God is greater than any man, and can thus still reach through evil doctrines to touch lives.

Good point, Mike. I'm glad you brought this up.

God Bless everyone. Brother Blademan, your post was so funny and remarks so witty that I have to concede this triad of scriptures. As much as I don't like it, Beam is right. I suppose I did go off the deep end and take what you posted, way out there.

This is how we keep the interest of the masses so that they stick around long enough to observe, and feel shame for their ever supporting the materialist Gospel through its promoters.

Satan always blesses people with material things, convincing them that those material things have spiritual dynamics that are holy rather than evil. By focusing on the material things they can never carry with them into the Holy of Holies, where no such material things are allowed, they are left with no other choice but to stand outside that Place, basking in the false light, all the while thinking that they're standing in the TRUE Light.

For the record, I've sat in religious, organizational strategy meetings of cookie-cutter copies of Copland's legacies in several very large organizations across this country. It's simply good business to supply a few free materials that encourage those in prison, youth halls, hospitals, etc., all in the hopes of gaining more, future supporters. This is old hat. It's a business strategy that works. Copland proved that point time and time again. It's his materials, none of which are marketed for any of the laymen to see, that teaches other organizational leaders how to succeed in luring more people in as strong, financial supporters.

YES, HE DOES SELL CONFERENCE PACKAGES AND UNDER-THE-TABLE, EDUCATIONAL PACKAGES TO RELIGIOUS, ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP ONLY, WHICH TEACHES THEM HOW TO STRATEGIZE THEIR WAY TO FINANCIAL SUCCESS BY WAY OF ENCOURAGEMENT PACKAGES AND MANY OTHER METHODOLOGY YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE. AND IT'S A MARKETING SCHEME THAT WORKS VERY WELL.

You people wouldn't believe how many conferences and expensive training packages there are that teach leaders how to rake in more money out of the unsuspecting, religious public. The business nature of many religious church organizations is an astounding spectacle to behold when you're on the inside.

He hired some of the most prestigious psychotherapists money can buy in order to develope his manipulative strategies in how to more effectively influence the masses into giving more and more, and how to gain more adherents. These are the same types of men large corporations hire to teach them how to emotionally and mentally manipulate union workers into fearing for their futures so that they'll vote for almost any contract, "...just to keep my job." I saw it all with my own eyes, folks.

How do I know all this? Well, that's my dirty little secret, but I'll say that I was once an insider myself. I heard the bragging with my own ears. As far as he was concerned, the price of those psychotherapists was more than worth it, because those conferences and packages more than paid for the price of those psychotherapists who have spent their entire lives studying the human psyche, and how to manipulate it.

Yes, I can just see Peter, John, James, Matthew, and Luke, standing afar off, in a grove of trees, handing the bags of gold to the ancient psychotherapists who taught them all how to speak and write in ways that would influence the most people. They then trained Paul in the same tactics, charging him handsomely, who, of course, then turned around and made his money back by teaching Timothy and Barnabas, Epahprus, and others, charging them as well.

Nope. These kinds of tactics and strategies are happening only today, within circles that thrive on the dollar.

Hey, it's just a living...right?

 

[Ncdataman]

PLease read the forum rules here is a link Talk Jesus - Announcements in Forum : The Press Stand This is not a debate forum, if this continues I will close this thread. I believe we can find other ways to edify Christ.

In Christ,

NC

 

[stephen]

I recall making my point in support FOR tithing somewhere in this thread. I cannot afford NOT to tithe

Apart from my regular monthly outgoings I have had to make out my personal cheque's for over £600 this Sept month. This is exceptional, but if I missed my tithe to the Lord God Almighty I surely could not afford such expence I am ssure

I was pleased to here only yesterday that my flight ticket to Kenya had been reduced by £30 Such reduction I attribute to my honouring the Master and His work, in the tithe

We cannot out give God........This debate really puzzles me.

If you do not desire/want/etc. to tithe. Dont bother

He owns the cattle on a thousand hills
The wealth in every mine
He owns the rivers and the rocks and rills
The sun and stars that shine

etc. Dont get uptight about it

 

[Ncdataman]

Well said brother Stephen.