Tithing?

[wendy28davis]

tithing

Please don't let the computer screen fool you. You can't see my facial expressions, and you can't hear the inflections in my voice. I have no animosity toward you or anyone else. I love people. It's just that when I write, I speak simply and to the point. In other words, I don't beat around the bush, as the saying goes, with all the fluff of social niceties. I don't have the typing time here at the university.



Do my observations come across as anger? That I'm not affected by people claiming the Lord told them something, when I can see that such is not the case, that doesn't mean I'm angry. It was simply a statement of fact.



I called you no names. I simply observed pride eminating from some of your words. You boasted of your spirituality, and hinted at my alleged lack of spirituality; that's pride. You don't know me from Adam, just as I don't know you. You stated that you sensed anger from my words, and I sensed pride from yours.

The bottom line is that I pointed out, from scripture, and even quoted it, that you were being inconsistent in your use of scripture. Don't translate my holding your feet to the fire into anger and hostility. I'm just being direct and to the point.



How do you know this? Scripture shows Him calling legalists, who misuse His words, a den of vipers, and white-washed sepulchres filled with dead men's bones. That doesn't sound very flattering to me.

What Jesus did, my friend, is name-calling. I did nothing of the kind toward you. I've given you the benefit of the doubt.

As you said you don't know me from Adam,so is it not judging when you say I'm not being led of God? That is calling me a liar.I'm certainly not prideful,but hopeful in the Lord Jesus. Just because my interpretation of the scriptures is different from yours doesn't mean I misused them. I could easily say that you are the one in error and you've misused them. That would only be fair right? My interpretation against yours.You saying the things you have make you no more right than me.The things Jesus spoke was mainly to hypocrites. I'm not a hypocrite,I am what I am by the grace of God.So,question,was Enoch being prideful when he said he pleased God? That's no different than what I have said.People need more knee-ology instead of theology.:wink:

 

[Blademan]

so is it not judging when you say I'm not being led of God?

You bet it's judging. I was judging your words. You stated that Jesus was telling us today to tithe. Based upon God's word, that obviously eminated from a different source OTHER than God.

Jesus emphatically stated in God's word that we are to judge, not according to the appearance, but according righteousness. His word is a righteous acid test for any and all statements anyone makes as allegedly originating from the Lord, both from outside and inside the Bible.

That is calling me a liar.

No, that's putting you on notice that you have a problem on your hands, which, in this case, had to do with a flawed, inconsistent handling of God's word on your part.

I'm certainly not prideful,but hopeful in the Lord Jesus.

That's like saying, "I'm not an athiest, but I believe that chocolate milk has milk in it." Pride and hope are apples to oranges.

Just because my interpretation of the scriptures is different from yours doesn't mean I misused them.

What it means is that one or both of us is wrong, and if there is error in the pot, and that doesn't concern you, then what does that say about you, and what does it say about me? I'm concerned. Error is a serious malady that must be erradicated.

I could easily say that you are the one in error and you've misused them.

Then demonstrate it. I did that for you, and you ignored it as if I hadn't said a word. Socially speaking, that's pretty rude.

That would only be fair right? My interpretation against yours.You saying the things you have make you no more right than me.

Degrees of right still house degrees of error. It's our job to "Prove all things...," as Paul instructed.

The things Jesus spoke was mainly to hypocrites. I'm not a hypocrite,I am what I am by the grace of God.

What?!?!?!?!?

So,question,was Enoch being prideful when he said he pleased God?

Not when told by the Lord that He was pleased, and accepted his sacrifice.

That's no different than what I have said.

Oh, the difference is infinitely vast.

People need more knee-ology instead of theology.:wink:

Yeah, take that to heart...

 

[wendy28davis]

tithing

You bet it's judging. I was judging your words. You stated that Jesus was telling us today to tithe. Based upon God's word, that obviously eminated from a different source OTHER than God.

Jesus emphatically stated in God's word that we are to judge, not according to the appearance, but according righteousness. His word is a righteous acid test for any and all statements anyone makes as allegedly originating from the Lord, both from outside and inside the Bible.



No, that's putting you on notice that you have a problem on your hands, which, in this case, had to do with a flawed, inconsistent handling of God's word on your part.



That's like saying, "I'm not an athiest, but I believe that chocolate milk has milk in it." Pride and hope are apples to oranges.



What it means is that one or both of us is wrong, and if there is error in the pot, and that doesn't concern you, then what does that say about you, and what does it say about me? I'm concerned. Error is a serious malady that must be erradicated.



Then demonstrate it. I did that for you, and you ignored it as if I hadn't said a word. Socially speaking, that's pretty rude.



Degrees of right still house degrees of error. It's our job to "Prove all things...," as Paul instructed.



What?!?!?!?!?



Not when told by the Lord that He was pleased, and accepted his sacrifice.



Oh, the difference is infinitely vast.



Yeah, take that to heart...

Let's agree that we disagree.But that still doesn't make your interpretation right compared to mine.Because it could easily be you that is in error.Saying that there is no possibilty that you could be wrong about how you are reading the scriptures is being prideful within itself.Paul said take heed lest you fall.On the other hand, If I have offended you in anyway with any statement I have posted,please do forgive me.Best Wishes to you.Goodbye.

 

[Blademan]

Let's agree that we disagree.But that still doesn't make your interpretation right compared to mine.Because it could easily be you that is in error.

Sooo, are you saying that you disagree that Jesus was addressing a people, at that time, who were still under the Law? If you disagree, then why not share with us all why you disagree? After all, Jesus' statement about the tithe was spoken before He passed the cup of His new Covenant. Do you disagree with that? I mean, it's biblical fact without any need for interpretation. The timeline is unmistakable.

Saying that there is no possibilty that you could be wrong about how you are reading the scriptures is being prideful within itself.

What is this? Tit for tat...my dad's bigger than your dad?:weirdo:

Ok. I'll lay down the gauntlet...you prove me wrong, and I'll concede pride. Is that acceptable to you?

 

[spirit1st]

This might help , reading the scriptures!

what problem i see is. we might not judge scripture by
elect
the called
the unsaved
his spirit
our spirit
flesh
mind
before the new testament
after the new testament
law
no law

the future
The now
the kingdom life
the flesh life
the world is under the law
we are not under the law

the wages of sin is death .So the flesh will reap what it sows.

This is the only rules to our flesh!

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well, Fare ye well.


We are NOT JEWS in our Flesh and Never were !

 

[wendy28davis]

tithing

Sooo, are you saying that you disagree that Jesus was addressing a people, at that time, who were still under the Law? If you disagree, then why not share with us all why you disagree? After all, Jesus' statement about the tithe was spoken before He passed the cup of His new Covenant. Do you disagree with that? I mean, it's biblical fact without any need for interpretation. The timeline is unmistakable.



What is this? Tit for tat...my dad's bigger than your dad?:weirdo:

Ok. I'll lay down the gauntlet...you prove me wrong, and I'll concede pride. Is that acceptable to you?

Matthew7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet,and turn again and rend you.May God Bless you.

 

[Blademan]

Good points, spirit1st.

It's always the same old story...those who teach others that:

1) the tithe predates the Law, therefore it's a principle by which we all should live

This still speaks of requirement, thus taking away the liberty we have in Christ

2) Malachi 3 is very clear that we are not to rob God by not tithing

Again, requirement that takes away freedom, binding people to the Law

3) Jesus spoke of it, there it applies across covenental and time boundaries, and is thus binding upon us today

This ignores that Jesus was addressing a people who were still under required obedience to the Law, at least up until the day the New Covenant was offered to mankind from the Lord

4) it's just commin sense that people should give to their "church" a minimum of a tenth of their gross income

This smacks of membership dues demanded by many religious institutions through its teachings, and its members to each other and to those outside the institution, which once again creates an air of unrecognized avarice by those who promote such a paradigm.

I have no problem with people, by conscience, secondarily supporting that from which they reap direct benefit.

What's tragic is the lack of biblical teaching with respect to the examples, which are in direct alignment with the Law, that show us God's priorities in our giving. Even the OT tithe was for the express purpose of supporting those who were truly doing the work to which the Lord had directed them in His service. That same tithe was also for the purpose of meeting the immediate nutritional needs of orphans, widows and strangers in the land. That's the sum total of the OT tithe.

The NT shows us a similar focus, which is the meeting of needs. This is so basic. It hits home at the very foundations of God's Heart-expressed priority in our giving. When needs are met, then those who receive give glory to God, and are thus released to server Him more effectively when they don't have to focus on just surviving from day to day.

Imagine the elderly beggar, trying to get from others his meager means for survival. Then picture that same man or woman, with needs met, then sitting with others, sharing with them encouragement, wisdom and comfort. Never mind the lazy charletans who are little more than wastes of humanity because of their lack of character. This is about those many people who are even members of large, religious organizations, and who can't get any support from their more wealthy counterparts within the same body of membership.

Oh, but we need the new projector, screen and hi-fi sound system to show pictures of running streams and flowers, and just the right music to titillate the people into a worshipful mood.

HAGWASH! This too will be judged in that day...:magnify:

 

[Blademan]

Matthew7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet,and turn again and rend you.May God Bless you.

Sanctimoniously calling upon God's blessing for another, with an open, uplifted right hand, and a verse daggar in the left, rings rather hollow.

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction (2 Tim. 4:2).

I've preached the word, in truth, concerning the tithe, and you reject the word of God in the place of what you think you heard from the same God who inspired that which is written, and is contrary to your words.

You consistently and flippantly refuse to answer as to why your words defy the quoted scriptures and reasonings from the scriptures offered in response to your words. That speaks loud volumes to your ravenous appetite for being a sounding gong and chime. The substance simply isn't there. It's non-existent.

I encourage you to allow God's word to be the acid test of what you think you are being told by God. He will never fault anyone for doing this.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.(1 John 4:1).

May the Lord bless you with His correction, and His truth, and you receive it willingly. This goes for us all.

 

[Brother Mike]

oh my gosh..

Blademan your a trip.....
There was another post on this somewhere. I gave my conclusion in favor of the non-tithers.

I don't agree, but had to draw the conclusion based on the majority of opinion, and not mine.

I did learn something though. I learned a lot of things and am glad for the challenge.

I say were suppose to give God the tenth of everything.

I think what I learned is to respect the light others have in the scriptures. Jesus said in mark 16 that if we believe in his name we will speak in other tongues. Do all speak in tongues? no. Do I blast someone that does not? No. If I see a Christian smoking do I blast them? no. Why condemn someone for what they allow or don't allow. God gives the increase.

God bless you everyone. Thank you Blademan for challenge. you do break things down in ways I never looked at.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Blademan]

Many have offered all manner of excuses for doing that which is contrary to the examples set before us in the word of God concerning our giving.

It all brings to mind two men, Nadab and Abihu, who, with all the greatest of intentions, offered up what the Lord called strange fire for the sacrifices upon the altar of God, and yet their act was rejected by God, and He consumed them both in a fire that shot out from the altar. (Num. 26:61)

Does this mean that plopping the primary portion of one's giving into the passing plate of which, in most cases, a large portion will be used for the facility and its operations, that fire will shoot down from the light fixtures and consume the institutional tither? No. We're not under the Law, such as that governing the burnt offerings upon the altar in OT times, and such a one is not trying to lie to the Holy Spirit as was the case with Ananias and Sapphira.

However, scripture lays out for us clear examples of God's poriorities in our giving within the NT. Those examples virtually leap out at us and scream about the importance of meeting needs first and foremost. That's the dominant theme in the giving we're faced with in the NT.

Why is this so overlooked in the midst of pious declarations of pride in those who boldly proclaim, "Well, I tithe a full tenth of all my income to my church."

I really don't care how much one gives to his or her "church." What I wonder is, what did you do to meet genuine needs, and to support those who are TRULY doing the work of the Lord...ministering Christ to the lost, and planting new local churches in locales where the Gospel isn't flourishing?

What you do to support the professional hirlings in your "church" and the facilities and operations they oversee is very insignificant in comparison to what you did to help the needy and support the true workers in the Gospel.

That's where the rubber meets the road. Where is your heart?

May all be blessed by the TRUTH of God's word.

 

[beam]

To all who are involved in debating the tithe,

Stay focused, our salvation depends on the love offering done at Calvary, it does not depend on tithing or not. So we all have our differences, and YA ALL know you could carry on for all eternity debating ANYTHING in the word because there will always be scriptures that "ALSO SAY' this, that or the other, i am only using capitals to emphasize, not to shout or in anger, in any way whatsoever.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Each man should give as he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion FOR GOD LOVES A HILARIOUS GIVER.

Apparently the original greek translation for cheerful giver is an Hilarious giver, so give your house, give your tenth, your tithe ,your time, your life and especially YOUR LOVE at all times, whatever you have decided in your heart, no one ever has or ever can outgive God. Give so much that your jaw and others will drop... LOL

Colossians 3:17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

Tithe, don't tithe, give offerings, don't give offerings, but whatever we do, just be at peace in YOUR OWN heart and work out your own salvation (and not anothers) with fear and trembling in the name of Jesus and lets give thanks to God while we're at it.

Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your hearts as working for the Lord and not for men.

Tithe, don't tithe!. Even God still does not force His will on us, but when we call on Him for truth and guidance we'll get it.

Enough already, Only the Holy Spirit will lead us INTO ALL TRUTH. Not me, or any of you precious brothers and sisters that have been involved in this debate, which has actually evolved into something else already! No matter how educated or knowledgeable a person is about the Word, we still only....

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we only KNOW IN PART....

1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror...

I repent if i have offended anyone or come across in any other manner than love.

1 Corinthians 13:1 ...if we have not love we are ONLY A RESOUNDING GONG a clanging cymbol an empty vessel making a big noise.

1 Corinthians 13:2 If you have the gift of prophecy and can FATHOM ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and even if you have faith that can move mountains, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE YOU ARE NOTHING.

I challenge all of you involved in this debate to leave it alone now, you have all had more than your say, release one another into our Father's hands for further instruction and TRUST God that He will give us all unity and revelation on this matter.

THE MAIN THING IS JESUS IS OUR SALVATION, the Holy Spirit WILL teach us right from wrong, so the challenge is this, each one that has been involved in this debate, declare something that you all know you agree on and end it there in Jesus name. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

I declare and release the Word of God over all of us that "it is You almighty God who will instruct the lot of us and teach us in the way we should go, it is You Father God who will council us and watch over us in Jesus mighty name-amen Psalm 32:8

Be blessed, you truly are all so very precious
All my love
beam

 

[Blademan]

To all who are involved in debating the tithe,

Stay focused, our salvation depends on the love offering done at Calvary, it does not depend on tithing or not.

This is a red herring. Nobody ever said, so far as I've seen, that tithing has anything to do with salvation. We can discuss doctrinal topics without salvation being an issue.

 

[Brother Mike]

WoW...

Just wanted to say Hi everyone Not getting involved. Still licking wounds from last tithing thread. Ha ha...

God Bless everyone!!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Blademan]

Uh, oh. There's that martyr syndrome rearing its ugly head again. :sadface:

Put on a happy face, and be joyful in the Lord. :friends:

 

[beam]

lighten up!

Dear dear Blademan (what made you choose that pseudonym?)

This is a red herring. Nobody ever said, so far as I've seen, that tithing has anything to do with salvation. We can discuss doctrinal topics without salvation being an issue.

'A red herring', take it any way you please. Just release others, to the true teacher our Holy Spirit. Does your intense, no non-sense and (tongue in cheek) straight forward, to the point, knowledge of scripture have to become such an issue of debate as well?

You had alot to point out which you did well, so now we get it, are we still allowed to make our own choices?

We are all part of the same body, it is imperative you lighten up and find something you can end the topic on in agreement. I dare you to pay a few of the others that had their say in the debate a compliment or two! I dare you to say something nice from your heart.

I for one would like to chat with you socially, obviously in another forum, tell me a bit about yourself, what are you doing in your life right now? are you married, been on holiday lately, what foods do you like or don't like, ever been to South Africa?

Holy Spirit i declare that we are bound together with cords of God's love that cannot be broken in Jesus name-amen

Regards
beam

 

[beam]

Greetings to you Brother Mike,

Wow, i think you got great character brother, by the way, i'm also a sister LOL

Just wanted to say Hi everyone Not getting involved. Still licking wounds from last tithing thread. Ha ha...

I see much humility in your replies and especially this one, and definately a great sense of humour!

Philemon vs 7:- your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you brother, :agree: have refreshed the hearts of the saints.

Regards
beam

 

[Brother Mike]

Why thank you.

Thank you Sister Of course Blademan knows I believe that we are suppose to give a tenth of all that God has done for us. I gave a gazillion scriptures on it in the other tithing thread.

However, Let everyone be convinced in their own heart how they serve God.

If your convinced we are not suppose to tithe, then make sure it's because of scripture and not a lack of money.

Well, I am going to duck and hide, I think I hear Blademan coming.

God Bless you Sister....

Jesus Is Lord!!!!!!

 

[beam]

Hi there,

I do tithe but only about 80% of the time, i do not belong to a church, i visit around, we have weekly teachings in my home and our family is also coming together for meetings once a week. I read and listen to alot of teachings, spend time with my Lord and we are busy learning about getting our priorities in line with God's i.e. God first, our own personal relationship with our Father next, marriage next, immediate family next, other relatives next, then our surrounding neighbors. A relationship of spending time with each other in love, peace, forgiveness, trust, pure enjoyment of life, sharing each others burdens, etc etc and of course always being available to love and pray for others absolutely anywhere!

If i do tithe into a ministry it's usually one like "Open Doors ministries" they smuggle ALOT of bibles to the persecuted churches in places such as Northern Korea, Saudi Arabia, China and many other places around the globe.

I meet alot of people in need in my immediate community and use the tithe for them, but even then i am learning to ask God if it's ok to give to some of these people as alot of them drug and drink. So i am to use discernment. I am busy saving up a certain amount of my tithe to buy my brother a study bible, he is still in prison but will be out soon and boy has God touched his heart and opened his eyes!

I think i see the blade before the man, i was kinda worried myself about posting a reply, i'm still a bit sensitive to tongue lashings! LOL

Come on brother blade tell us a joke or something! You know we want to laugh with you!!

May God make us all like minded toward one another in Christ Jesus amen.

Best regards
beam

 

[Maureen]

I mind being told once, that our tithes are seperate from our offerings.
It was in a mega church I used to attend, I remember now.

Whereas I was like yourself, I was saving my tithes for the needy in Africa last year, and giving a small offering to church each week.
Surely it's better to help the needy and the poor, the Lord Jesus had much compassion for these.

Your doing good work in the name of Jesus.

 

[stephen]

I cannot for the life of me understand why we have all this debate about the tithe so continually.

I have made it clear that I am a tither

If others do not agree...........ok
If others think they give to men..........ok
If others cannot afford..........ok
If others think this is too expensive.....ok
If others want others to support Gods work.....ok
If others believe Gods work will be accomplished withoiut the tithe...ok

Am I a Thief? - 04-25-08, 03:24 PM
I want to ask myself a very personal question. Am I stealing from the Almighty? Ordinarily the very term would be abhorrent to me, for any suggestion of pilfering or acquiring property belonging to another would fill me with disgust.

I seek to live among society as one having respect for the social laws that make me a good citizen I try to be meticulous in my Tax return, to be punctual paying bills, to have a system by which I can regulate the financial affairs of my life. But how accurate and persistent am I in squaring my affairs with God?

There is a debt of course which I cannot pay, and for which I depend upon His mercy and the value of Calvary's offering to settle the claim. The need for my consecration will never be exhausted, and I can only keep giving and giving again.

There is one aspect of my life , however, in which I can determine whether I am an offender against the requirements of God. An area which determines whether I am robbing the LOrd of Host's God himself, through the prophet very pertinently and clearly issues the challenge "Will a man rob God?"

The indignant reply of those who seek to be called by His Name is again in the form of a question "Wherein have we robbed thee?" In one simple, searching, scathing sentence comes the terse reply: "In tithes and offerings" Malachi 3 v 8 So I am on a spot. Not confronted by a Pastor, or Presbytery, but by the LOrd of Hosts. I ask my self the question "Am I guilty?" And if so why?

It cannot be because there is insufficient scriptural evidence that I ought to tithe. Nor that the principle of tithing was restricted to those under the Law, for I know that Abraham and Jacob gave their tithes long before it came into being. Gen 14 v 20 and ch 28 v 22

I cannot claim that it was just for Old Testament days, for I have clear references in Luke 11 v 42 and Hebrews 7 v 8 apart from the supporting scripture of 1Cor 16 v 1-2 and 2 Corinthians 8 v 1 -15 and ch 9 v 1 - 15 It cannot be because I cannot afford it, for were I not a child of God the devil would demand so much more of my money and my time.

Over and above this is the challenging ring from the chancellor of heaven "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house and prove me now herewith saith the Lord of Host's if I will not open you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground: neither shall your vine cast fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of Host's"
Malachi 3 v 10 -11

Perhaps I am honest enough to concede that I should be tithing, and in principle I probably am. Maybe my greatest offense is that I am careless. I am not as painstaking in making sure that I have given my tithe as I am in other financial matters. I check my salary, scrutinize my overtime, make sure I claim any Tax rebate due to me. But how careful am I in discharging my obligations to God?

Do I not systematically, and sacredly, take my tithe and lovingly put it to one side? Do I not feel the tender touch of God upon me as I keep this covenant with him? When I am absent by reason of sickness or work or holiday, do I keep a careful check and ensure that I have not missed my gift to God? What do I do with my tithes? Do I scatter them about complacently, or follow the divine injunction to bring them into the storehouse, which is the Church to which I belong,

Finally what harm is done if I do not tithe? In the first instance I grieve the one who has given His all for me. Secondly I restrict the blessing of God within the Church. Thirdly, I hinder the propagation of the gospel, which affects others. Fourthly I hurt myself and my home and family by missing the blessing God has promised.

Am I a thief?. Careless? Indifferent?

By God's grace from this day I will discharge my obligations, with the recognition that tithing is only the minimum of my giving to the Lord, and that the scripture speaks of offerings for which there is no maximum.