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Tis IS the season.....but WHOSE?

Eccl12v13

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
181
Let’s find out about the origins of the day the world celebrates as the Lords birthday, and see who’s birth it was that was originally celebrated on Dec. 25th.

X-Mas
Having turned long ago from worshiping the one true God and creator of all things, many early cultures in the Roman empire had fallen into sun worship. Recognizing their dependence on the sun's yearly course in the heavens, they held feasts around the winter solstice in December when the days are shortest. As part of their festivals, they built bonfires to give the sun god strength and bring him back to life again. When it became apparent that the days were growing longer, there would be great rejoicing. They decked their halls with garlands of laurel and placed candles in live trees to decorate for the celebration of Saturnalia.

The 21st of December is the shortest day of the year. From that time the sun recommences its upward course, announcing that midwinter is passed and spring and summer are approaching. The Romans celebrated this change, under the title of "Saturnalia," by universal license and merrymaking.

Saturnalia
Sat`ur*na"li*a\, n. pl.
1. (Rom. Antiq.) The festival of Saturn, celebrated in December, originally during one day, but afterward during seven days, as a period of unrestrained license and merriment for all classes, extending even to the slaves.
2. Hence: A period or occasion of general license, in which the passions or vices have riotous indulgence.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary,

noun
1. An orgiastic festival in ancient Rome in honor of Saturn
2. The ancient Roman seven-day festival of Saturn, which began on December 17. (used with a sing. verb)
1. A celebration marked by unrestrained revelry and often licentiousness; an orgy.
American Heritage Dictionary

In Roman times, the best-known winter festival was Saturnalia, which was popular throughout Italy. Saturnalia was a time of general relaxation, feasting, merry-making, and a cessation of formal rules. It included the making and giving of small presents (Saturnalia et Sigillaricia), including small dolls for children and candles for adults.

During Saturnalia, business was postponed and even slaves feasted. There as drinking, gambling, and singing, and even public nudity. It was the "best of days," according to the poet Catullus.[7] Saturnalia honored the god Saturn and began on December 17. The festival gradually lengthened until the late Republican period, when it was seven days (December 17–24). In imperial times, Saturnalia was shortened to five days.

Natalis Solis Invicti
The Romans also held a festival on December 25 called Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "the birthday of the unconquered sun." The use of the title Sol Invictus allowed several solar deities to be worshipped collectively, including Elah-Gabal, a Syrian sun god; Sol, the god of Emperor Aurelian (AD 270–274); and Mithras, a soldiers' god of Persian origin.[9] Emperor Elagabalus (218–222) introduced the festival, and it reached the height of its popularity under Aurelian, who promoted it as an empire-wide holiday.[10]
December 25 was also considered to be the date of the winter solstice, which the Romans called bruma.[6] It was therefore the day the Sun proved itself to be "unconquered" despite the shortening of daylight hours. (When Julius Caesar introduced the Julian Calendar in 45 BC, December 25 was approximately the date of the solstice. In modern times, the solstice falls on December 21 or 22.)
 
Before the Romans, the Greeks called this time of year Brumalia:

Brumalia
Brumalia was an ancient Greek solstice festival honoring Dionysus, generally held on December 25. The festival included drinking and merriment. The name is derived from the Latin word bruma, meaning "shortest day."

On the great day, December 25th itself, came the Brumalia (from bruma: "shortest day");the religious observance of the sun-worshipers. This was known also as Natalis Solus Invicti: the "Birth of the Unconquerable Sun"--the date when the day began again to lengthen.

 
This Greco/Roman "festival of Saturnalia and Brumalia" is really the celebration which was adopted by the early Christians and is now known as Christmas. With it have been accepted also ancient customs and superstitions from other nations.

It is significant that the Catholic Encyclopedia itself says--
"The well known solar feast of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on Dec. 25, has a strong claim for the responsibility of our Christmas date."

On this point, the Encyclopedia Americana says--
"In the fifth century the Western Church ordered Christmas to be celebrated forever on the day of the old Roman feast of the birth of Sol, (The Sun God)."

The decision to celebrate Christmas on December 25th was made sometime during the fourth century by church bishops in Rome (Some 400 years after the birth of Christ and approx. 300 years after the completion of the New Testament). They had a specific reason for doing so.

The Roman Church purposely chose December 25 with the intention that Christ’s birth would replace the birthday of the Sun. Thus, the 25th was chosen not because the date was confirmed to be the actual birth of Christ, but to replace the pagan holiday.

For the most part their efforts failed to make the people conform, and the heathen festivities continued. Today we find ourselves left with a bizarre mix of many ancient pagan customs and superstitions from other nations that characterizes our modern celebration of Christmas. Let’s look at just a few of them.

 
THE MISTLETOE
For example, the mistletoe bough is a remnant of an old ceremonial rite performed annually by the Druids, (The same people that gave us Halloween), by whom the mistletoe was not only held in reverence but also believed to possess wondrous curative powers. The ceremony consisted in the people's marching to the forest and gathering around the oak on which the mistletoe grew. The chief Druid clothed in white, climbed the tree and with a golden knife cut the plant; another priest standing with outstretched mantle caught it as it fell. Two white bulls brought for the purpose, and sometimes human beings as well, were then sacrificed as a propitiation to the savage god of the Druids.

The mistletoe cut by the priest was afterwards divided into small portions and distributed among the people, who hung the sprays over their doors to please and to protect their deities during the winter.
The ancient Celtics believed mistletoe to have magical healing powers and used it as an antidote for poison, infertility, and to ward off evil spirits.

Scandinavians associated the plant with Frigga, their goddess of love, and it may be from this that we derive the custom of kissing under the mistletoe.


HOLLY
In Northern Europe Christmas occurred during the middle of winter, when ghosts and demons could be heard howling in the winter winds. Boughs of holly, believed to have magical powers since they remained green through the harsh winter, were often placed over the doors of homes to drive evil away.

THE YULE LOG
The custom of burning the yule log has been transmitted from Scandinavian ancestors who kindled huge fires to their god Thor. The log was the center of the trunk of a tree that was dragged to a large fireplace where it was supposed to burn for twelve days. From this comes the twelve days of Christmas.

THE CHRISTMAS WREATH
The use of evergreens and wreaths as symbols of life was an ancient custom of the Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews, among other peoples. Tree worship was a common feature of religion among the Teutonic and Scandinavian peoples of northern Europe before their conversion to Christianity. They decorated houses and barns with evergreens at the new year to scare away demons, and they often set up trees for the birds in winter. For these northern Europeans, this winter celebration was the happiest time of the year because it signified that the shortest day of the year--about December 21--had passed.

CHRISTMAS GIFT GIVING
Gift giving is one of the oldest customs associated with Christmas: it is actually older than the holiday itself. The Romans, for example, celebrated the Saturnalia on December 17. It was a winter feast of merrymaking and gift exchanging. And two weeks later, on the Roman New Year--January 1, houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. As the Germanic tribes of Europe accepted Christianity and began to celebrate Christmas, they also gave gifts.

THE CHRISTMAS TREE
The origin of the Christmas tree is not definitely known, but it is believed to have come down to us from the Roman "Saturnalia," having been carried into Germany by the legions of Drusus, whose great exploits established Roman supremacy in Germany about 15 B.C. Thus we see that even the Christmas tree with its glittering pendants and pretty toys predates the birth of the Savior.

 
Starting with the day chosen to celebrate the birth of the Lord, Dec.25th, to ALL of the customs associated with X-mas….we find every last one of them are from ancient pagan practices.

When you get right down to it, there is nothing Christ like about X-mas. The holiday originated from ancient pagan practices that predate the birth of Christ. It calls for worship to other god’s, Samhain, “Lord of Darkness” and, Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "the birthday of the unconquered sun.". It is a holiday made up of customs and traditions that have absolutely nothing to do with the birth of Christ. HOW CAN YOU CONTINUE TO CELEBRATE X-MAS? The sad part is that some will continue to do so knowing the truth.

 
So….what will YOU be celebrating this coming Dec. 25th? Will you be comfortable exchanging gifts knowing this day was also the day the ancients worshiped their sun god? Will the singing and merry-making be just as enjoyable knowing that this day was originally devoted to a period or occasion of general license, in which the passions or vices have riotous indulgence which also included orgies? And how about all of the decoration that will be hung? Will the wreaths, hollies, Yule-log and mistletoe bring memories of the birth of our Lord or will they remind you of things originally thought to have magical powers, used to ward off evil spirits?

And what about the one symbol most associated with the X-mas season…..the beloved X-mas tree? Did you know God gave us a specific warning about the use of this item? Remember the verse at the very beginning of this lesson I said we would be coming back to, “the customs of the people…” Jer. 10:3? Well let’s read the whole passage and see just what God had to say about this ancient practice.
 

What God Has to Say

Jer.10
[1] Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
[2] Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
[3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
[4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
[5] They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

God, through the mouth of Jeremiah, tells us NOT to learn the ways of the heathen, for their customs are VAIN!!! And what has the whole world learned? Just what God warned us against. Out of all the pagan customs we practice, and we engage in a whole lot of them, God gave us an example of the one that would become the most poplar in all of the world…..THE X-MAS TREE!!!!!!

You can not get a more accurate description than the one He gave us in the 10th chapter of Jeremiah. And this was almost 500yrs before the birth of Jesus Christ. So saying this practice has anything to do with the birth of our savior is just not true. Let’s look at it again:

Cutting a tree out of the forest with an axe. (vs.3)
Decking it with Silver and Gold. (vs.4)
Fastening it with nails and a hammer so that it moves not. (vs.4)
And watering it because it cannot move. (vs.5)

Is that not a dead on, perfect picture of our modern day X-mas tree? How awesome is our Lord!! On the accuracy of that (1) prediction alone, over 2000 yrs old, I just can’t see how anyone can doubt the legitimacy of the Holy Bible.

Now that we know the origins of the most poplar holiday celebrated all over the world, let’s read what the almighty God has to say about engaging in such practices and how we should govern our lives:

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

God tell us to avoid anything that may even appear to be evil.

3 John 1:11
11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

John tells us to not follow things that are evil.

Romans 12:9
9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Paul tells us to abhor evil.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14
9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

REMEMBER: Only God can declare something an abomination. And ALL of the people mentioned above that partake in those things are an abomination to Him.

Ephesians 5:11-12
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Corinthians 10:21
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

Holidays with pagan origins are not doctrines of God, they are doctrines from Satan.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

God tells us to separate ourselves from the customs of the world. What fellowship should you have with things once associated with idols and with darkness?

Philippians 4:8
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

1 Corinthians 11:1
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Ezekiel 44:23
23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Proverbs 22:6
6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Hosea 4:6
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Romans 13:12
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

Ephesians 6:11-18
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

1 John 5:21
.21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments;
18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.


 
So what more can be said? The origins of X-mas are pagan. Should you continue participating in the X-mas tradition? After all, “a rose by any other name is still a rose.” and paganism is still paganism, no matter how you try to cover it, even if you try to cover it with the name of Jesus. God’s word is true, He instructs us to avoid the appearance of evil and to separate ourselves from the, “the customs of the people…”.
Attaching Jesus name to a holiday originally observed as worship to “the lord of darkness”.

Going against God’s commandment and bringing a tree into your home and decorating it with silver and gold.
Saying Jesus was born on the 25th of Dec. when, in fact, that is the day still observed as the birthday of the

“Unconquered-Sun”.
Kissing under the mistletoe.
Exchanging gifts.
Decorating with Holly, Yule-logs and Wreaths.

Is this separating yourselves and avoiding the appearance of evil? Or have you made fellowship with those things that are considered an abomination to our God by attempting to cover them with, “… another Jesus, whom we have not preached,…” 2 Cor.11.?

.
 
Amazing how man turns words around If you wish to scare me from the enjoyment of family , the tree, church on Christmas and to tell God thanks for the family and all things......did not work.

That tree you cut down and turned into a Christmas tree is out of context. Read the entire chapter. God is talking about taking a tree and cutting it down, and coating it with silver and gold and making a idol out of it for worship.

None of us worship a tree. Mainly we get aggravated at having to clean up the needles that fall off.

I have a stature of Micheal the Angel over our fancy living room furniture where the T.V. is. Not sure it that is him, it is just a idea that we as humans invent, we do not worship him, he just sits up there and collects dust.

No one knows the day Jesus was born, I suppose he did not consider it too important or he would have told us.

I am sure Jesus does not care about us having a Christmas tree, for the family to be together and enjoy the day and eat way too much so long as we give Thanks to him for it all. I am sure if he was around he would sit at the dinner table and talk to the kids too.

An object made into an idol or object of worship to take the place of God is the one thing that will cause God to get extremely upset.

But he is not talking about the Christmas tree. It is but a tree, a symbol of man and mans celebration. The tree is not the object of worship. Jesus is the one who it is for. He is the one we Thank, and God is the one we worship . Or both whatever.

Living in fear and being a sadsack is not any fun.......kinda like halloween, not much harm in it that I can see, just a time to have some fun and see how much candy you can get. There is no longer any worship or meaning to it.....

Off to chop down a tree, I think this year it will be a fake tree.

Kit
 
God does not want us to expose other gods but to dispose of them.

Exodus 22:28 You shall not revile, (berate) the gods, nor curse the ruler of your people.
Ex 23:12 Six days you shall do your work, and on the seventh day you shall rest: that yours ox and yours *** may rest, and the son of your handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.
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23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of your mouth.
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Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff-necked.
10:17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of Lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regards not persons, nor takes reward:
 
Luke 1:31 And, behold, you shall conceive in your womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name JESUS.
Nativity Christmass
Telesphorus, the second Bishop of Rome (129-138) ordained that "in the holy night of the Nativity of our Lord and Savior, they do celebrate public church services, and in them solemnly sing the Angels' Hymn, because also the same night he was declared unto the shepherds by an angel, as the truth itself doth witness."
St Telesphorus was a Greek who had been an anchorite ( retired from society for religious reasons). He ruled the Church in the time of Emperor Antoninus Pius.
To St. Telesphorus are attributed some church practices which endure down to this day.

A custom much loved even today is also attributed to St. Telesphorus. He is said to have ordered that although Mass was not celebrated before the hour of tierce (i.e., 9 to 12 o'clock in the morning) at Christmas time Mass should be celebrated at night. This is the first mention of the beloved midnight Mass.
Roman Christian Celebration

Telesphorus, the second bishop of Rome (129-138) ordained that "in the holy night of the Nativity of our Lord and Savior, they do celebrate public church services, and in them solemnly sing the Angels' Hymn, because also the same night he was declared unto the shepherds by an angel, as the truth itself does witness."
December 25 was not officially designated as Christmas and a church festival until sometime between the years 325 and 350. The earliest mention of observing the Nativity of Christ on December 25 is in a calendar tabulating the practice in Rome in the year 336, 4th century.
Eastern Christmas Celebration

Christ's baptism by John the Baptist occurs January 6, significant for the early church. It was also the day the Wise Men (Magi) arrived at Bethlehem to present their gifts. This day is known as Epiphany.
In the East, the feast of the Epiphany commemorated the baptism of Christ. In the later part of the 4th century, Epiphany Day was connected with the Nativity, especially in Syria. By the middle of the 5th century most of the Eastern Churches adopted December 25 as a separate feast of the Nativity. However, until 549, the Church of Jerusalem celebrated on January 6 both Nativity and Baptism.
Epiphany is an important festival of the church. In many countries it climaxes the Christmas season and is the time that gifts are exchanged

Asia Minor and Santa Claus alias Saint Nicholas

While the Christmas festival was happening in Rome, a Priest named Nicholas was serving churches in Asia Minor. He was consecrated Archbishop of Myra, a seacoast town. He exerted a strong influence on the entire Byzantine branch of Christendom. Soon after his death on December 6, 326, he became known as Saint Nicholas.
Legends grew about Nicholas's generosity and kindness. His gifts were given secretly, so that the recipients would never know who gave them.
 
How about this..... Do you think Jesus will allow the celebration of HIs birthday during His 1000yr rule here on earth?

Do you think He will allow ANY items that were once used to worship idols, to be used to represent His birth?

Do you think there will be any Yule logs burning, Wreaths, Holly, or trees of any kind brought into your homes and claim this is all to celebrate the Lords birthday?


Of course not!


.
 
How about this..... Do you think Jesus will allow the celebration of HIs birthday during His 1000yr rule here on earth?

Do you think He will allow ANY items that were once used to worship idols, to be used to represent His birth?

Do you think there will be any Yule logs burning, Wreaths, Holly, or trees of any kind brought into your homes and claim this is all to celebrate the Lords birthday?


Of course not!


.

19 And Samuel answered Saul, and said, I am the seer: go up before me unto the high place; for ye shall eat with me to day, and to morrow I will let thee go, and will tell thee all that is in thine heart.
1 Sam 9:19 (KJV)

You may want to read on to get the full thought here, but Samuel feasted in a high place where pagans use to worship false gods.
 
19 And Samuel answered Saul, and said, I am the seer: go up before me unto the high place; for ye shall eat with me to day, and to morrow I will let thee go, and will tell thee all that is in thine heart.
1 Sam 9:19 (KJV)

You may want to read on to get the full thought here, but Samuel feasted in a high place where pagans use to worship false gods.

Whenever a place of worship is to be taken as a place where idols were once worshiped, the bible calls them "high places".

But when the bible speaks of a place that is higher than the surrounding city it is called a 'high place'!

There was nothing said that would indicate that the place where Samuel and Saul ate was a place where idols were once worshiped.

Now that is clear....

How about this..... Do you think Jesus will allow the celebration of HIs birthday during His 1000yr rule here on earth?

Do you think He will allow ANY items that were once used to worship idols, to be used to represent His birth?

Do you think there will be any Yule logs burning, Wreaths, Holly, or trees of any kind brought into your homes and claim this is all to celebrate the Lords birthday?
\\.
 
Whenever a place of worship is to be taken as a place where idols were once worshiped, the bible calls them "high places".

But when the bible speaks of a place that is higher than the surrounding city it is called a 'high place'!

There was nothing said that would indicate that the place where Samuel and Saul ate was a place where idols were once worshiped.

Now that is clear....

How about this..... Do you think Jesus will allow the celebration of HIs birthday during His 1000yr rule here on earth?

Do you think He will allow ANY items that were once used to worship idols, to be used to represent His birth?

Do you think there will be any Yule logs burning, Wreaths, Holly, or trees of any kind brought into your homes and claim this is all to celebrate the Lords birthday?
\\.

That's a lame excuse.LOL wanna try again? I'm sure you can do better.

Hint:use a Hebrew dictionary.
 
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Christmas

The dialogue of the celebration Christmas is not unlike Romans 14. Specfically verse 22. "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction fefore God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves." NASB

May I tell why We celebrate Christmas? I will say no one has ever said that this day we call Christ Jesus birthday most likely is not His real birthdate. No one knows for sure. But why not now? At no time of the year can unsaved people hear the Gospel in music as they can at this time of year. What a wonderful time to reach so many peopleas millions of people shop. Never will you gather as many people as now.

We have a Nativity in our livingroom, and a "Happy Birthday Jesus" banner. We use the celebration of Christmas as a time to Worship the Lord Jesus Christ. We remember His lowly birth, and even in His birth the humility in seen in the conditions of a barn or stable were disgraceful for the king of King's to be born.

What would those who disapprove of celebrating Christmas suggest we do in a celebration of the Birth of Jesus? I do hear the comdemnation of the way things are done, and some issues are quite valid.

Our Christmas tree is used to Honor and Praise the Lord Jesus Christ. So in the privacy of our home there is no reason to fault those who choose to celebrate Christmas on December 25th. For those who find it is not right for them to celebrate Christmas with a green tree and all, let them be convinced in their own heart to do so would be a sin, and do as they believe is right and pleasing to the Lord Jesus Christ.:wink:
 
How about this..... Do you think Jesus will allow the celebration of HIs birthday during His 1000yr rule here on earth?

Do you think He will allow ANY items that were once used to worship idols, to be used to represent His birth?

Do you think there will be any Yule logs burning, Wreaths, Holly, or trees of any kind brought into your homes and claim this is all to celebrate the Lords birthday?


Of course not!


.

God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit..........have always been. The alpha and the omega, always existed before time. Time was created for us, and time began with the creation of the universe.

So God is not worried about his birthday as he does not have one. He has always been.

As for us humans who are aware of time, anything that is for us a celebration or symbol or of significance to us, so long as it is not idol worship, sin or harmful, I am sure God is cool with it.

God knows our heart too, most forget that simple little fact. So if you go to that high place to eat and take a nap and rest. If you honor the false God or idol then you have had it. If you give thanks to God, it is cool. God know our intent, and our mind, and he is not stupid.

Once you realize God is your friend, your pal, one you can talk to about anything, then the fears of man, created by man, mis written and oppressive old laws born from culture and adopted and many other things , mistakes in the word, and all the other things that may cause one to question, all become but silly. As Jesus says, most are passed away, uphold the simple laws of morality and common sense and that is all. The holy spirit tells you right from wrong. We know it instantly, or at least I do.

I saw a post by another someplace on here on another subject but I use the truth that I feel in my heart here also. Remember where the Bible says I God will put upon you and your generations the sins of the Father, for many generations, and in the bible for some things up to 10 generations for some things to not be allowed in the fellowship of God. .........all old culture, old ways, and other outside things put into the religion, as Ezekiel finally says what was in my heart for years. You and you alone are responsible for your sin, and it does not pass to son or others, they also live and learn and accept or not and have equal chance as you do. The oppression and fear is unfounded in many things. Like it or not pagan ways are in the early culture and writings and that is fact. A little mystery for you and consternation......Lol......you cannot eat a rabbit cause a rabbit chews the cud but has furry cute feet , but not a hoof......I mean God made the rabbit, but men messed it up again......

Great is God, so wonderful, Hallowed be his name. Just look around at the sky, and the creation and accept. And laugh at ourselves and our way. We are like monkeys, give us a round ball to play with and soon we will try to put it in a square hole.

So remember God knows your heart, so if you want to put up a tree or not, either is cool. So long as you say Hi to God that day. Honor him, give thanks for all you have.

God does not ask a lot, he does not wish us to live in fear, you see man is the one who creates all this fear and confusion. God just says honor me, do what is right, and enjoy life. That is all he requires. Actually the requirements are very simple and easy.

Kit
 
The dialogue of the celebration Christmas is not unlike Romans 14. Specfically verse 22. "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction fefore God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves." NASB

May I tell why We celebrate Christmas? I will say no one has ever said that this day we call Christ Jesus birthday most likely is not His real birthdate. No one knows for sure. But why not now? At no time of the year can unsaved people hear the Gospel in music as they can at this time of year. What a wonderful time to reach so many peopleas millions of people shop. Never will you gather as many people as now.

We have a Nativity in our livingroom, and a "Happy Birthday Jesus" banner. We use the celebration of Christmas as a time to Worship the Lord Jesus Christ. We remember His lowly birth, and even in His birth the humility in seen in the conditions of a barn or stable were disgraceful for the king of King's to be born.

What would those who disapprove of celebrating Christmas suggest we do in a celebration of the Birth of Jesus? I do hear the comdemnation of the way things are done, and some issues are quite valid.

Our Christmas tree is used to Honor and Praise the Lord Jesus Christ. So in the privacy of our home there is no reason to fault those who choose to celebrate Christmas on December 25th. For those who find it is not right for them to celebrate Christmas with a green tree and all, let them be convinced in their own heart to do so would be a sin, and do as they believe is right and pleasing to the Lord Jesus Christ.:wink:

Very nice post Farout.
While I personally don't need the Christmas season/ holidays to make me mindful of Christ's birth and sacrifice, I like it because there is no other time of year in which so many show so much generosity and kindness towards others.
 
God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit..........have always been. The alpha and the omega, always existed before time. Time was created for us, and time began with the creation of the universe.

So God is not worried about his birthday as he does not have one. He has always been.

As for us humans who are aware of time, anything that is for us a celebration or symbol or of significance to us, so long as it is not idol worship, sin or harmful, I am sure God is cool with it.

God knows our heart too, most forget that simple little fact. So if you go to that high place to eat and take a nap and rest. If you honor the false God or idol then you have had it. If you give thanks to God, it is cool. God know our intent, and our mind, and he is not stupid.

Once you realize God is your friend, your pal, one you can talk to about anything, then the fears of man, created by man, mis written and oppressive old laws born from culture and adopted and many other things , mistakes in the word, and all the other things that may cause one to question, all become but silly. As Jesus says, most are passed away, uphold the simple laws of morality and common sense and that is all. The holy spirit tells you right from wrong. We know it instantly, or at least I do.

I saw a post by another someplace on here on another subject but I use the truth that I feel in my heart here also. Remember where the Bible says I God will put upon you and your generations the sins of the Father, for many generations, and in the bible for some things up to 10 generations for some things to not be allowed in the fellowship of God. .........all old culture, old ways, and other outside things put into the religion, as Ezekiel finally says what was in my heart for years. You and you alone are responsible for your sin, and it does not pass to son or others, they also live and learn and accept or not and have equal chance as you do. The oppression and fear is unfounded in many things. Like it or not pagan ways are in the early culture and writings and that is fact. A little mystery for you and consternation......Lol......you cannot eat a rabbit cause a rabbit chews the cud but has furry cute feet , but not a hoof......I mean God made the rabbit, but men messed it up again......

Great is God, so wonderful, Hallowed be his name. Just look around at the sky, and the creation and accept. And laugh at ourselves and our way. We are like monkeys, give us a round ball to play with and soon we will try to put it in a square hole.

So remember God knows your heart, so if you want to put up a tree or not, either is cool. So long as you say Hi to God that day. Honor him, give thanks for all you have.

God does not ask a lot, he does not wish us to live in fear, you see man is the one who creates all this fear and confusion. God just says honor me, do what is right, and enjoy life. That is all he requires. Actually the requirements are very simple and easy.

Kit

Very nice post KC I do believe that we are to deny ourselves and embrace our cross as we follow Jesus, but this too by the help of HolySpirit can produce great joy in us.
 
God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit..........have always been. The alpha and the omega, always existed before time.


But that does not answer the question.....

During Jesus 1000 year rule here on earth, do you honestly believe He will say it is ok to observe His birthday using the SAME items that were once used to worship idols?

Do you believe that Jesus will say it is now ok to bring a tree, even though you say you are not worshiping it, into your homes, decorate it with silver and gold and say this is what we do to honor your birth?

Do you think you will be able to hang wreaths and mistletoe, burn yule logs and exchange gifts to honor Him?

Or........

Will you be keeping God's 7th day sabbath, Passover, Day of Atonement, Tabernacles and ALL of the rest of His holy days that He said will be kept forever?

Man's X-Mas or God's Holy days?

Which will God demand be kept during His rule here on earth?

Man's traditions or His laws?

.
 
Christmas trees worship as gods.It is a tree.just a tree eccl12v13.It is a idol if you think it is.But it is only a tree.just a tree.
 
But that does not answer the question.....

During Jesus 1000 year rule here on earth, do you honestly believe He will say it is ok to observe His birthday using the SAME items that were once used to worship idols?

Do you believe that Jesus will say it is now ok to bring a tree, even though you say you are not worshiping it, into your homes, decorate it with silver and gold and say this is what we do to honor your birth?

Do you think you will be able to hang wreaths and mistletoe, burn yule logs and exchange gifts to honor Him?

Or........

Will you be keeping God's 7th day sabbath, Passover, Day of Atonement, Tabernacles and ALL of the rest of His holy days that He said will be kept forever?

Man's X-Mas or God's Holy days?

Which will God demand be kept during His rule here on earth?

Man's traditions or His laws?

.

Do you understand the meaning of the Hebrew word olam?
 
But that does not answer the question.....

During Jesus 1000 year rule here on earth, do you honestly believe He will say it is ok to observe His birthday using the SAME items that were once used to worship idols?

Do you believe that Jesus will say it is now ok to bring a tree, even though you say you are not worshiping it, into your homes, decorate it with silver and gold and say this is what we do to honor your birth?

Do you think you will be able to hang wreaths and mistletoe, burn yule logs and exchange gifts to honor Him?

Or........

Will you be keeping God's 7th day sabbath, Passover, Day of Atonement, Tabernacles and ALL of the rest of His holy days that He said will be kept forever?

Man's X-Mas or God's Holy days?

Which will God demand be kept during His rule here on earth?

Man's traditions or His laws?

.

So what do you propose us Christians to do during Christmas season?
Be scary or grumpy? Pout? tell everyone that they are pagans?
Dress in black? Darken our homes?

As mentioned before by farout, the Christmas season is the best time to proclaim the reason for the season especially for us Christians. We celebrate the birth of the Son of God which carries with it the concept of a gift.

If you haven't noticed yet Gift as a concept is very attractive to those who yet to believe, since we all naturally are attracted to gifts. And what else can be better to start the conversation about the savior of the world than talking about gifts?

Now, don't go overboard the other way also
Instead of buying each family member gifts and making a drama out of the whole thing, consider collecting toys on sale, warm clothings and food items and on Christmas day, give to those who needed them. Maybe this will become a new tradition among Christians that would be biblical.

What say thee?
 
Will: AMEN! There are many ways to give at Christmass. One church where I was pastor we gave out frozen turkey's and laa the trimings for a great meal. We gave out about 30 or more meals like this. We goy names from the Ministerial Alliance and the County Welfare office. I was blessed along with outhers to take the food to those on our list. I will never forget the doors that were open to us, and the thankfulness of the people was very special
 
So what do you propose us Christians to do during Christmas season?
Be scary or grumpy? Pout? tell everyone that they are pagans?
Dress in black? Darken our homes?

As mentioned before by farout, the Christmas season is the best time to proclaim the reason for the season especially for us Christians. We celebrate the birth of the Son of God which carries with it the concept of a gift.

If you haven't noticed yet Gift as a concept is very attractive to those who yet to believe, since we all naturally are attracted to gifts. And what else can be better to start the conversation about the savior of the world than talking about gifts?

Now, don't go overboard the other way also
Instead of buying each family member gifts and making a drama out of the whole thing, consider collecting toys on sale, warm clothings and food items and on Christmas day, give to those who needed them. Maybe this will become a new tradition among Christians that would be biblical.

What say thee?

It's not what say me.....it's what says God. And God tells us the following;

Jer.10
[1] Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
[2] Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

God does not tells us NOT to worship their gods, but not to even learn their ways.

[3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

God tells us their customs are VAIN! In other words, it is done for NOTHING! Let's now read a custom that is done in VAIN.

[4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
[5] They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

God tells us NOT to bring a tree into your house and decorate it. He tells us not to be afraid for it can neither fo good nor bad.

But the main point God makes it NOT to learn the ways!

And what has the world done? Just the opposite. Not only does the world bring in a tree; they hang the wreaths and the mistletoe, bring in Holly into their homes, burn the yule logs and exchange gifts. And every lost one of these activities were once used to worship idols. But now the world thinks it's ok to use these same items and say they NOW are being used to celebrate the Lords birthday....and they do not believe He would have a problem with it.

Let's read what say the Lord;

"Abstain from all appearance of evil."

Were any of the above actions EVER used to worship the Lord or celebrate His birth? NO! They ALL were once used to worship idol gods.

"Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God."

Are you following that which is GOOD, by using items that were once used to worship idols?

"When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations."

From the beginning God tells us NOT to learn the actions of other nations.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?"

Were these items used by "believers" or "unbelievers" when they were first done? These items were used by those that did NOT believe in the true and living God.....and look who has adopted the ways of the heathens. Using the SAME items and doing the SAME activities at the SAME time of year IS being equally yoked with unbelievers.

Tell me.....if Jesus was to return to earth during the X-Mas season and walked into the homes and found a tree decorated, wreaths and mistletoe hung, holly and yule logs burning HOW would He be able to tell those that serve idols from those that claim to serve Him?

Do you not think He knows how and what these items were once used for? And you really think He would not mind His name being associated with those things that were once used to worship idols, just because NOW you say, these things are being used to celebrate your birth Lord!

.
 
But that does not answer the question.....

During Jesus 1000 year rule here on earth, do you honestly believe He will say it is ok to observe His birthday using the SAME items that were once used to worship idols?

Do you believe that Jesus will say it is now ok to bring a tree, even though you say you are not worshiping it, into your homes, decorate it with silver and gold and say this is what we do to honor your birth?

Do you think you will be able to hang wreaths and mistletoe, burn yule logs and exchange gifts to honor Him?

Or........

Will you be keeping God's 7th day sabbath, Passover, Day of Atonement, Tabernacles and ALL of the rest of His holy days that He said will be kept forever?

Man's X-Mas or God's Holy days?

Which will God demand be kept during His rule here on earth?

Man's traditions or His laws?

.

Good Evening.

I for one on Christmas Day plan to go to a new Church, just wander in and sit down. I went there a couple years ago by myself and the spirit was so strong I could feel it just by stepping in the door. So that is what I plan to do. So I will always honor God, in all things.

My heart or the Holy Spirit simply tells me that mans traditions as long as they are harmless and have no intent to show favor or worship to an idol or something that is not God is OK. A wreath or tree or whatever is more for us than for God or Jesus. They are material things to represent our traditions. I think they are fine in the right mindset.

So I again say, God knows our heart. He knows the intent of all things whatever they are.

Exchanging gifts are for us, a man made tradition, and done on the day picked to honor Jesus. So that is for us, and I think the only Gift Jesus wants is to just say Hi, tell him Thanks, he has no need of material things. But I do not think he cares about us really as long as it is properly done.

On the other hand I understand the commercialization thing of it all too, and the demands placed upon people to buy gifts and to feel obligated to do these things. To go into debt to buy them and many other things. So I will meet you in the middle with that and simply say I understand the bad too.

It is all the intent of the heart. A couple examples , say you go to Walmart during Christmas shopping and the Salvation Army Santa is out there, hey stop and give the guy ten bucks......or if the Girl Scouts are selling cookies do the same and tell the young girl ....keep the cookies. Lol! I do not like those cookies, but will help them sometimes. Or if you buy a turkey and give it to the help shelter, what can be wrong with that?? That is honor to Jesus during the time of celebration, it is what he wishes.

It is all what is in your heart. Enjoyment of the time, family and maybe help someone, so that silver star on top of the tree is nothing more than a silver star. It has no more meaning than a blade of grass in the yard. Simply a part of a custom and tradition.

Would be nice if peace would enter the world as some of the songs convey, and not only last but a short time......

So in direct answer to your question, yes I do think Jesus is fine with our tradition of Christmas. I also think if he did come to my home or your home or any home he would smile and speak to all, and might even play monopoly with the kids. Our traditions are fine as long as they do not go outside the law. And for law the laws of morality as set for us in the New Testament, not the Mosaic Laws of Old of which some of those were Civil and Traditional Laws.

If he ever tells me something is wrong , I will just say Yes Sir, and correct it and stop that thing. So far it seem fine to me.

We are not to live in fear, or worry, just to follow what is in our hearts. Never fear if it is wrong the Holy Spirit will speak up just as soon as you think of it.

Some of the things of the Old Testament are dangerous unless your faith is very strong. They can combined with opinions and articles and untruths, become stumbling blocks. So be careful with that.

As for what Jesus/God will wish in his 1000 year Kingdom, I am sure he will make it clear. Some things that are not sanctified naturally will not be allowed. Not in his area of Holy presence. But would be fine outside of it. I am sure there will be specific rules about many things. But that will be another time, a new time, and I am sure it will be made clear. But God does not have a birthday, so pretty sure he will not want a once a year celebration for himself, just to honor him always. I learned long ago not to assume what God may wish. It is his right to wish anything and our obedience to listen. For the moment I obey him by not worrying about things that are good, but maybe tried to be made bad by fear and assumption. Try not to let the fears of men cause you worry and fear. Just listen to God. In all things there is right and good intent and bad. We are to follow the good and walk away from the bad.

Hard for me to explain to you, another of your posts, how do we know the spirit lives in us? How can God be in his realm and still be in us....he just is is all, once you fully accept him it is very clear. Till then you will stumble around .

Respectfully

Kit
 
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Thank you Eccl12v13 for your post, I happen to agree with you on the occult origins of Christmas. In all actuality many of the holidays we celebrate in America and around the globe stem from an occult origin. A very informative video on this topic is Americas Occult Holidays by Doc Marquis which can be obtained through the prophecy club. I must say it is quite appalling to find that those things we were raised in and assumed to be good have come from Satan via the occult all along. I no longer celebrate the holidays I know have origins in the occult because you're absolutely right, God has no pleasure in such things. To me it would be no different to pick up a Ouija board and try to justify using it by saying I was talking to God, or it's a tradition we use to honor him on his birthday and these reasons are ok because my heart and mind are focused on God. On another note the Bible never tells us to celebrate Christs birth, it only tells us to celebrate what was done for us on the cross in the act of communion. Rom. 14:23 ...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Thanks again for bringing the deception of Satan to light.
 
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