• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community.

    Join over 10,000 members today

    Register Log In

  • Hi Guest!

    I've added a brand new "Night Mode" option to our site design. I'd greatly appreciate your vote on this poll here.

    To switch to or from Light / Night mode simply click on Site Menu icon on top and on the dropdown choose "Switch to Night Mode" or "Switch to Light Mode"

    Thank you.

The Wrath of God.

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:14)

Active Member
You do know that there are Christian Pastors that are homosexual - don't you? That love and worship the same God you do!!!!
Love God? Perhaps we should start a thread on what exactly ''loving God'' is.

The GLBT community are clear evidence of people that do not love God. It is a sin that get's blurry for most as they do not seem to be 'evil' in that they are not hurting anyone. But they are most certainly not showing any respect whatsoever to God.
 
Active Member
I live in Africa and here we have a problem with homosexuals being killed because they are regarded as an abomination. Now i wonder where they heard that. Maybe you should do research outside echo chambers.
Well, they are an abomination. And if it is the death penalty in your country to be an homosexual then they better not break the law.

My research comes from the Bible, as I have just showed you.

Quantrill
 
Active Member
(Rom. 1:18-1:32) is a picture of the wrath of God against all those who hold the truth in unrighteousness, or suppress the truth. And, all born of Adam do. It is a picture of the whole race of Adam which have the truth, but suppress the truth of God, and God's judgement against them due to His wrath against them. And it has not changed no matter how great civilization has progressed in the sciences, arts, etc. And the U.S. is a prime example.

Though Paul has laid out completely the course of God's wrath against such people, he still has more to say about it. The whole chapter 2 of (Romans) is still addressing this subject. So, why is that? What more could or should be added to this subject, as Paul has made his points very clear? The reason is this. If you could view Paul teaching this in a large classroom somewhere you find two other types of people in the class. And they would be raising their hand to speak, and when allowed, they say, but, that doesn't apply to me. They would be nodding their head in agreement with Paul concerning God's wrath against such people he described in (1:18-32), because they see themselves as better than that. They do not see themselves going down that terrible descent. Paul describes these two types of people in (Rom. 2).

The first type of man who does not see himself as described in (Rom. 1:18-32) is the very good man. He has morals. He would never do those things. Paul addressed him in (Rom. 2:1-16) This applies more to the Gentiles than the Jews. But Paul is clear that the Gentiles, though not being under the written law, are under an unwritten law just the same. (Rom. 1:11-16) The second type of man who does not see himself as described in (Rom. 1:18-32) is the Jew under Law. Because he has the Law of God, he does not see these things applying to him.

Paul is going to show both that their morality, their good works, their being a people of God's Law, and observing the Law has not removed them from the wrath of God against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

Quantrill
 
Active Member
The first verse in chapter 2 of (Romans) is key. " Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

This verse has been wrongfully used against Christians that they are not to judge. It does not say that. Paul described the state of mankind without God in (Rom. 1:18-32). In (Romans 2) he is still talking to mankind without God. Only this type of man's outward appearance does not reflect that described in (1:18-32). He sees himself better than those described. Today we would call them 'good people' . They are good people. They don't hurt anyone. They try to be good citizens and contribute to society. But, they reject God. And they sit in judgement of people whose morals are worse than theirs.

These judge by comparison. They compare their good deeds or morals with others and see themselves as ok. One of the reasons these judge themselves as ok even by God, is that they have not experienced these judgements of God seen in (Rom. 1:18-32). For that reason they believe they must be alright. This is a common trait among fallen man. (Ecc. 8:11) But Paul is clear in (Rom. 2:1). "thou that judgest doest the same things." They may not be overt. They may not be seen. But they are just as guilty. And the only reason they have not experienced these judgements is that God is longsuffering and giving time for them to repent and come to God. (Rom. 2:4) And they will be seen just as guilty on the judgemnt day. for God judges not by comparison, but by truth. (Rom. 2:2) and these moral good people without God will not escape the just judgement of God in that day. (2:3) (2:16) God sees it all.

Remember, this judgement of deeds, (Rom. 2:6,) (Rom. 2:16), is not a judgement that Christians go through. This is a judgement of the unbelievers whose deeds will find them guilty. Though they think they have done these in secret, God has seen and recorded. (Rom. 2:16) They rest on their good deeds, but God will reveal all. If they do good, fine, then they will be ok. (Rom. 2:7,10) But if not, they won't. (Rom. 2:8-9). And this applies to both Jew and Gentile good people. (Rom. 2:10-11) The Gentile good people will be found guilty, and the Jews good people will be found guilty also. Of course the Jew cries out, that he has the Law. But God says, (Rom. 2:13) "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." My how this verse has been used to clobber the saints with. It is not saying any will be justified by keeping the Law, or that we should be following the Law. It is saying you who claim to be ok because you observe the Law are lying because only the doers of the Law shall be justified. And there are none who do not break the Law.

We can easily see why Paul must establish all guilty and under the wrath of God here at the beginning of (Romans). Because until you get man guilty before God, he doesn't see himself in need of a Saviour. No need to discuss the righteousness of God, when your righteousness is ok. This is true when we witness to people. If you're talking to a good man, he doesn't see why he needs Jesus Christ. He doesn't hurt anyone. Does good. But good ain't good enough. If you're going to compare, compare yourself with God. Then you always come up short.

Quantrill
 
Active Member
Paul now comes to the Jews concerning the wrath of God. He alluded to them briefly in (Rom. 2:12-13) but he now addresses them directly. (Rom. 2:17) "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God." The Jewish race was the chosen earthly race of God. And they were given the Law of God. But just because they were Jewish and had the Law, didn't mean they were not sinners before God. They were as he said in (2:12-13). "...as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; ( For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." And there is the rub. They cannot keep the law. Yet they make pretense that they can and are. But God knows better. (Rom. 2: 18-23) "...Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

The Gentile man who has not the law, recognizes it is not right to steal, so doesn't. The Jew has the law, boasts of it and steals. Thus the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles due to this hypocrisy. (Rom. 2:24) The Jew boasts in being a Jew and having the Law. Paul says, you do not keep the Law. Having the Law does nothing. Hearing the Law does nothing. You must keep the Law. And the Law finds them guilty also. As to them being a Jew, Paul says just because you are born a Jew doesn't make you a Jew in God's sight. The Jew in God's sight is the Jew whose circumcision is that of the heart. (Rom. 2:29) This doesn't mean Gentiles become Jews because they are right with God and have that circumcision of the heart. It means the true Jew is one who is born a Jew and has the circumcision of the heart.

So, the wrath of God is upon the ungodliness and unrighteousness of the Jews who hold the truth in unrighteousness. And how do they do that? By having their Law of God and not being honest with it. It finds them guilty. It doesn't find them righteous because they have it. And yet they claim it does. They claim their being chosen of God makes them right before God. Paul says no. You hold the truth of God in unrighteousness and the wrath of God is upon you.

Thus there are no exceptions to Paul's claim in (Rom. 1:18). The wrath of God exists now, against all ungodliness of man. Against all unrighteousness of man. Who hold the truth in unrighteousness. And all have the truth. The unsaved man in the jungle holds the truth of God in unrighteousness. The good man everywhere who is not a believer, holds the truth in unrighteousness. The Jews who are not believers, followers of Christ, hold the truth of God in unrighteousness. All are sinners. (Rom. 3:9) None are righteous. (3:10)

The verdict: The Law speaks to them under the law. (Rom. 3:19-20) "...that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for, by the law is the knowledge of sin." And any who claim they are keeping the law, hold the truth of God in unrighteousness. And the wrath of God is upon your ungodliness and unrighteousness....because you have it.

Quantrill
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Victor Van Heerden Bible Discussions 26
Dave M Bible Discussions 8
B-A-C Bible Discussions 7

Similar threads


Top