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The Trinity
- Thread starter David1954
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Samson2020
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John 20:17 " Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD." WHY WOULD HE SAY THIS TO HER IF HE WERE GOD WHY WOULD HE NEED TO GO TO HIS GOD?
The verse you quote in John occurred roughly 12 hours after the one I quoted where he basically says don't touch me yet because I have not ascended to my Father and My God.
Do we have any proof of what happened during the12 hour period that these 2 events took place? Other than an ascension took place as he tells her where he's going! But we do see that he allows them to touch him after he returns from the missing 12 hour period and now allows them to put their fingers in his side and nail holes. Could we assume that he had ascended to His Father and his God during this 12 hour disappearanace? Yes because the verse tells us he did. Was he glorified at that time?
John 7:39 "But this he spoke concerning the spirit, whom those believing in him would receive; for the Holy spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
John 20:22 "And when he had said this ,he breathed on them, and said to them Receive the Holy Spirit.
To conclude when you read that section look for the small things that give us ability to figure out what took place, everything if possible. As when he came to them in the evening he allowed them to touch him and he breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Spirit. But in the early morning hours of the same day he told Mary that he was going to his Father and his God. There is a time lapse that we don't know what happened except that he went to the Father and when he came back He could give the Holy spirit so according to John 7:39 HE HAD TO BE GLORIFIED FIRST IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO GIVE OUT THE SPIRIT. SO WE SEE WHAT MUST HAVE HAPPENED-HE WAS GLORIFIED DURING THAT SPECIFIC DAY IN THE TIME FRAME MENTIONED.
The question we would all need to ask is what exactly is GLORIFICATION ? In Jesus' case it meant he now could give out the Holy Spirit to the believer. WHY COULD HE NOT DO THAT PRIOR TO GLORIFICATION IF HE WAS GOD?
The verse you quote in John occurred roughly 12 hours after the one I quoted where he basically says don't touch me yet because I have not ascended to my Father and My God.
Do we have any proof of what happened during the12 hour period that these 2 events took place? Other than an ascension took place as he tells her where he's going! But we do see that he allows them to touch him after he returns from the missing 12 hour period and now allows them to put their fingers in his side and nail holes. Could we assume that he had ascended to His Father and his God during this 12 hour disappearanace? Yes because the verse tells us he did. Was he glorified at that time?
John 7:39 "But this he spoke concerning the spirit, whom those believing in him would receive; for the Holy spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
John 20:22 "And when he had said this ,he breathed on them, and said to them Receive the Holy Spirit.
To conclude when you read that section look for the small things that give us ability to figure out what took place, everything if possible. As when he came to them in the evening he allowed them to touch him and he breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Spirit. But in the early morning hours of the same day he told Mary that he was going to his Father and his God. There is a time lapse that we don't know what happened except that he went to the Father and when he came back He could give the Holy spirit so according to John 7:39 HE HAD TO BE GLORIFIED FIRST IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO GIVE OUT THE SPIRIT. SO WE SEE WHAT MUST HAVE HAPPENED-HE WAS GLORIFIED DURING THAT SPECIFIC DAY IN THE TIME FRAME MENTIONED.
The question we would all need to ask is what exactly is GLORIFICATION ? In Jesus' case it meant he now could give out the Holy Spirit to the believer. WHY COULD HE NOT DO THAT PRIOR TO GLORIFICATION IF HE WAS GOD?
Samson2020
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I sir am neither JH or Mormon, I am a simple disciple of Christ taught by the Holy Ghost for some 18 years now. I do not take instruction from men as spoken of by John in
1 John 2:26-27. If you have the Holy Ghost he will teach you just as he did Paul.
I see your working yourself up a bit much, I saw this as a simple conversation making roads to discover the truth, thats all. The back and forth causes us to study actually and confirm our beliefs which could turn out good or bad depending on whether one is proven right or wrong, either way the truth is discovered and both parties should be glad.
1 John 2:26-27. If you have the Holy Ghost he will teach you just as he did Paul.
I see your working yourself up a bit much, I saw this as a simple conversation making roads to discover the truth, thats all. The back and forth causes us to study actually and confirm our beliefs which could turn out good or bad depending on whether one is proven right or wrong, either way the truth is discovered and both parties should be glad.
Samson2020
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Simple, at the Glorification of Jesus who was and is the Son of God, he had been obedient to the point where we see in Revelation the Lamb of God that was slain was
WORTHY TO RECEIVE POWER AND RICHES AND WISDOM, AND STRENGTH AND HONOR AND GLORY AND BLESSING. He did not get this until after he was slain.
What does all that mean? He was declared by the Father to be a GOD. As now he could give out the Holy spirit just as his Father had given to him at the river Jordan, but he couldn't do that until after glorification according to John 7:39.
WORTHY TO RECEIVE POWER AND RICHES AND WISDOM, AND STRENGTH AND HONOR AND GLORY AND BLESSING. He did not get this until after he was slain.
What does all that mean? He was declared by the Father to be a GOD. As now he could give out the Holy spirit just as his Father had given to him at the river Jordan, but he couldn't do that until after glorification according to John 7:39.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
The question always remains... Why do Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons hate the Bible so much.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
The question always remains... Why do Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons hate the Bible so much.
Samson2020
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Mal 3:1 " Behold I send my messenger (John the Baptist). And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple, Even the messenger of the covenant (Jesus), in whom you delight. Behold he (Jesus) is coming saith the Lord of hosts(God).
However in John 1:30 " This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a MAN which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
I can see the confusion in that when he says prepare the way before me, you take that me as God?
I see God saying I'm sending John the Baptist to prepare the way before me. But he sent a man named Jesus, whom he would indwell and speak to the people through as Jesus says. "I in the Father and the Father in me." And "the words I speak I speak not of myself but the Father doeth the works." "I have given them the words that thou hast given me..."
However in John 1:30 " This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a MAN which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
I can see the confusion in that when he says prepare the way before me, you take that me as God?
I see God saying I'm sending John the Baptist to prepare the way before me. But he sent a man named Jesus, whom he would indwell and speak to the people through as Jesus says. "I in the Father and the Father in me." And "the words I speak I speak not of myself but the Father doeth the works." "I have given them the words that thou hast given me..."
Samson2020
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Lord knows I tried but I don't see any real inclination to understand so I will leave you with your Trinity doctrine and your accusations and say farewell for now.
As your last comment about having eyes to hear the Bible tells me I'm not talking to anybody thats giving much thought to what they say, and probably not much time to trying in the least to understand what I'm giving you.
As your last comment about having eyes to hear the Bible tells me I'm not talking to anybody thats giving much thought to what they say, and probably not much time to trying in the least to understand what I'm giving you.
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