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The trinity

Brother,Thanx for the notice I will work on this to find out what the problem is.

Many blessings in Christ
 
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My beloved,
If you believe Jesus is not God the Word made flesh in order to take our sins upon Himself, pay the penalty for our sins (which is death), and was resurrected by God the Holy Spirit, then I have two questions, in love, for you: 1. Who do you say Jesus is? [Your answer to this question is critical to God, since Jesus said the truth spoken of by Peter in answer to this question is the rock on which Jesus would build His church] and 2. How are you saved? [Please do not think I am suggesting you're not saved! No, I'm trying to understand your perspective on these key issues.]

I have read several posts on the subject of the Trinity, and I've had to keep myself in check. Rather than entering into the debate, brining my knowledge of the original languages of the Scriptures, and resulting in division and dispute, I want to reach out in love, and seek understanding.

You see, the God I know, trust, and believe has revealed Himself to me as three disitinct aspects of His complete unity, the perfect plural unity of God the Father, God the Word (Creator, who became Jesus the Son), and God the Holy Spirit. When I grasped this, the list of what I had thought were contradictions in the Bible all cleared up for me. I have, in my years of study, never found any more contradictions since then. God the Father has accepted me and made me His child because of Jesus. Jesus has healed me and saved me. He knows me and I know Him. He is the personal connection. God the Holy Spirit guides, inspires, and corrects me. He teaches me, comforts me, and convicts me. Each of the Persons in the Trinity are God for me. I don't worship three gods, but One. I could give probably off the top of my head thirty examples of demonstrations of the concept of plural unity, but that would be entering into the debate/ dispute.

I'm not trying to say anyone's wrong here. I'm just trying to gain understanding about a different perspective on God than mine. So, I refer to my two main questions.
 
1 John 5:7 KJV or NKJV

If you have a King James or New King James translation this verse nails the Trinity to a tee.

If I'm repeating anyone, sorry. There seem to be alot of reading that I didn't have time for. I just saw this blog today.

1 John 5:<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-30632 value="7">7</SUP>For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
 
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When Jesus walked the earth, He was fully human (24/7) as well as being God. I think Paul explains this quite well in Philippians 2:5-8. Since He had temporarily surrendered use of His powers and prerogatives as God, His miracles were done through the power of the Holy Spirit (see Lk 5:18, Mt 12:28).

SLE

Your comment begs an interesting question - To whom does GOD surrender His powers? BLESSINGS. Doc :idea:
 
God or Jesus does not surrender his power.

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

43The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
44Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
50Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
 
I have not got into all of the discussion here on this, but I will. But I want to go ahead and say what I have found. Right now we have the Holy Ghost. Jesus called Him by name. If you study man, you will find that we have a "trinity." Paul called it carnal, natural, spiritual. We are created in the likeness of God. What I believe is that there is a Godhead. We do know that Jesus is sitting on the right side of the father. And we know we have the Holy Ghost. I do have scripture on all this, but as it is late and I am fighting my eyes, I will get back with you later.
 
What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?


Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word "Trinity" is not used in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God, the fact that there are three coexistent, co-eternal persons that make up God. Understand that this is NOT in any way suggesting three Gods. The Trinity is one God made up of three persons. There is nothing wrong with using the term "Trinity" even though the word is not found in the Bible. It is shorter to say the word "Trinity" than to say "three coexistent, co-eternal persons making up one God." If this presents a problem to you, consider this: the word grandfather is not used in the Bible either. Yet, we know there were grandfathers in the Bible. Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob. What should be of real importance is that the concept that is represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. With the introduction out of the way, Bible verses will be given in discussion of the Trinity.

1) There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons: Genesis 1:1; 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; 48:16; 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17; Matt 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14. In the passages in the Old Testament, a knowledge of Hebrew is helpful. In Genesis 1:1, the plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. That "Elohim" and "us" refer to more than two is without question. In English, we only have two forms, singular and plural. In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual, and plural. Dual is for two ONLY. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs like eyes, ears, and hands. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms—definitely more than two—and must be referring to three or more, in this case Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages: In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from "God" (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament John 14:16-17, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit. This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all of the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God: The Father is God: John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2. The Son is God: John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. The Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16. (The One who indwells is the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9; John 14:16-17; Acts 2:1-4).

5) The subordination within the Trinity: Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see: Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21; 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see: John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7 and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The tasks of the individual members of the Trinity: The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1; Matthew 11:27; John 16:12-15; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.


As is, referenced above, the main issue, with this subject, falls solely on having true faith in what God tells us.[Father God we do not understand but without doubt we shall accept you and your word where is, as is.] Unfortunately as humans many of us insist on insisting that the Bible says "more or less" than it actually does.

It is ok for us not to fully understand it, but it is not ok for us to attempt to change the meaning. [In most cases, simply to benefit our own selfish desires.] But we are to fully accept God at His Word.


LET GO & LET GOD!

This is the problem with the teaching of the trinity. It is always seperating them all into 3 different people. They are all one together the same. Not the same in mind likeness which is suggested in this point. they are one in all aspects of the word one. Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is Jesus. God has not made this so hard to comprehend. People claiming to be in the Spirit or saved that have not asked for revelation. Rather they went to school or to a church and learned what they know from a man or were directed to it by a man. go pray and ask for revelation from the lord.
 
The place of Holy-Spirit.

Well. i wanna appreciate God for everyone that had contributed to this topic so far. For, I believed that this is the bed-rock of our salvation and the enemy of truth wouldn't want us to understand who we are really serving.
I believe for us to understand the things of God even pertain to "GODHEAD", the place of Holy-Spirit is very important for it is not just about "Knowing about the Bible and truth therein" but ITS ABOUT KNOWING AND LEARNING OF HIM WHO IS THE TRUTH ITSELF.
Truth is a Person and that Person is CHRIST HIMSELF. The problem we have today is not the problem of reading and getting knowledge of the bible but our Problem lies in our failure to seek the PLACE OF HOLY-SPIRIT to teach us the Scripture. And this is the Challenge before us today and the men of vain understanding has taught us lies and false things concerning the things of the Kingdom.
My prayer is that everyone of us will seek the Lord regarding this Issue or topic and I'm persuaded that He will gives the right answer about His "GODHEAD"

My Understanding in these regards
I believe that God is not TRINITY as some people has rightly said. Neither do we have three distinct being in the person of God the Father, The Son and The Holy-Spirit. For all this are just title just as you have Professor in Law, Pastor, President, Ambassadors, and so on like that. These are just mere offices the occupied while they are living on Earth or working in their various offices but the same man you called Prof., is also a husband of somebody and also a father of some children and also a Son of somebody but does this make him a Trinity? The answer is NO!
So lets consider some Scriptural teachings that the Holy-Spirit gave me while i had this kind of argument about God been a THREE DISTINCT PERSON. I didn't quickly agreed on this issue until the Holy- Spirit began to teach me and open my eye to some things in His word about His personality.
The first thing the Lord told me was that His Is NAME a Progressive Name and they are unique to various situation He choose to reveal Himself.
Exodus 6:2-3
And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I AM THE LORD. And I appeared to Abraham, unto Isaac and unto Jacob, by the name of GOD ALMIGHTY; BUT My name JEHOVAH was I not KNOWN to them.
Here we see the Lord introducing His name to Moses and He said by this name I HAVE NOT APPEARED TO YOUR FATHERS. Literary put I AM THAT I AM.
So in this case the situation and the circumstances surrounding His Children demanded that name but it will be a gross error when the Lord move beyond that realm and one still remain in that state of yesterday revelation.
God chooses the name that Fit to the particular needs at a time.

Joshua 5:13
13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

15 And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Here also the Lord revealed Himself to Joshua as the Captain of the Lord of Host. And this name has to do with fighting a battle against Jericho.
I can go ahead and show so many title the Lord bared while on the Journey with His people but in all the names the Lord has NOT revealed His PERMANENT IDENTITY to His People until When our Lord came,Died and glorified that name.
At this stage, let us ask ourselves this question: WHAT IS THE REALLY NAME OF GOD?
If you say the name of God in this dispensation is God well i will say you are right but not totally, Because that name ''God'' is a title given to A Spiritual Being that created the universe but that is not His original name. Just as you will called the person that built something a BUILDER OR FOUNDER or a Husband that now have a kid a Father, So also the SPIRITUAL BEING THAT CREATED THE UNIVERSE IS CALLED GOD!!
Don't conclude yet, Let look at these Scripture together;


Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (note:singular not plural) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen

John 17:6
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:12

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:26-18:1

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Let me stop here and continue from there tomorrow but before i do that, I want us to notice somethings from the Scripture i quoted, and if everyone do, then we should all ask ourselves this questions:

1. WHAT WAS THE NAME JESUS MANIFESTED?
2. AND BY WHAT NAME ARE WE BEING KEPT AS A CHRISTIAN?
3. WHAT NAME DID HE DECLARED?
4. THEN WHAT WERE THE NAME OF THE FATHER,AND THE SON AND HOLY-GHOST?

Hoping by God's grace I shall go deeper than this tomorrow and if you have any question regarding what i have posted please, i will be glad to answer by God's grace.


May the Lord Help us all and teach us His ways. Amen.
PEACE





 
Your comment begs an interesting question - To whom does GOD surrender His powers? BLESSINGS. Doc :idea:

Excellent Question!!

Answer > HE don't! , God don't die or lie or lose power or surrender, or have any of the weaknesses that humans do.

Anything or anyone which can die or lie or lose power or surrender is not the One True GOD!
 
yeah !!! you go girl (ROFL)

The Lord our God has been and always will be the beginning and the end and most definately the ONLY one true God
 
The continuation.....

Excellent Question!!

Answer > HE don't! , God don't die or lie or lose power or surrender, or have any of the weaknesses that humans do.

Anything or anyone which can die or lie or lose power or surrender is not the One True GOD!
Yes you are right like I love to say to people that they can't contain God's wisdom and understanding with their mere brain, in fact God's knowledge and ways of doing things always offend humans mind and understanding. Well I trust God to help us in these regard. On this note i will love to continue from where i stop.

These were the questions I raised for us to considered but i believed it should has been more of a spiritual things for us to consider.
1. WHAT WAS THE NAME JESUS MANIFESTED?
2. AND BY WHAT NAME ARE WE BEING KEPT AS A CHRISTIAN?
3. WHAT NAME DID HE DECLARED?
4. THEN WHAT WERE THE NAME OF THE FATHER,AND THE SON AND HOLY-GHOST?
Lets take the first question first.In all the teaching of Christ His emphases has always been on two things, First The Kingdom of God and second The Name He manifested.


Here is a foot-notes for us:


Matthew 4:17
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say; Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand"
This was the first message Jesus proclaim after He was tempted by the Devil.
I want to say this, "A man cannot understand what the Kingdom of God is without understanding the PERSONALITY that rules as a King in that Kingdom".
I will have love to share about the Kingdom of God but i believe this is the main subject of that Kingdom.
For, many will be surprise when they see WHO God really is and when they find out that it is one King that sit on the throne not two.

The Answer

Now to our question, WHAT WAS THE NAME JESUS MANIFESTED? The answer is simply JESUS CHRIST.
I don't think i need an explanation for that, because it's obvious that people that were healed or saved or even ministered to were all delivered in THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.
I know some of you may find it hard to accept but there is nothing we can do against the Truth than the Truth.
If you have doubt about what I said, i don't even want you to accept what I will be saying until you seek the Holy-Spirit and the Holy- Spirit teaches you and to reveal this to you.
Because we christian of nowadays are so use to: "what our pastor said, what i read, what the bible say" "But the question is,
WHAT IS THE HOLY-SPIRIT SAYING TO YOU?"
.

The language we speak when we are confronted with a question determined who truly we are yielding to. And many a time, The place of Holy Spirit is not found in our words.

The name Jesus manifested and still manifesting is JESUS CHRIST.




 
This is the problem with the teaching of the trinity. It is always seperating them all into 3 different people.

Not an argument but just my thoughts:
God does everything in order and it is scripture itself that teaches the distinctions between the Three. One example would be Jesus in eternal submission to the Father:

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
 
Not an argument but just my thoughts:
God does everything in order and it is scripture itself that teaches the distinctions between the Three. One example would be Jesus in eternal submission to the Father:

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Yes, you are right my dear friend. And like I love say, It is only eternity that can explain the TOTALITY of this GOD to us for we can only comprehend little and that which the Holy-Spirit revealed to us. I really don't want to people to just believe things EXCEPT they have received it from the Holy-Spirit.
Please, these 1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
These verses really needs a revelation, and this revelation can only come by God.
I don't want to go into this now, but there is also a question in my heart deep down inside of me and this question I wouldn't mind if anyone can provide me with an answer to it.
Here is my question:
BY WHAT NAME SHOULD A CHRISTIAN BE BAPTIZED??
Please, i will appreciate your answer to this question IF it has a background in the word of God and inspired by the Holy-Spirit.

Hoping by God's grace i will come back to where i stopped and also take along this verse you quoted and explain the understanding i was given by God through His Spirit.

"For we know in part and prophecy in part".
 
By posting what i posted doesn't mean I supported the message of trinity or God been a three distinct personality. Far from it, for the Lord has spoken once to my ear saying: "Hear O Israel, The Lord our God is One Lord".
It is He that spoken in ages past that still speak to the ear of His people saying the same things.
 
The father is three parts as He made us ! it takes all three parts to make one being!
God thinks it the Word speaks it and the Power [Holy Ghost ]does it!
One being !
Each part can be doing a different things! Yet all together!
We to can be doing three different things .we can ride a bike [body] Our mind thinking of something[SOUL]? and our Spirit praying![inward man]

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We do all things as unto the LORD JESUS CHRIST ! HIS name is above all His !though HIS name we can raise the dead heal the sick and much more, if in our FATHERS GODS WILL!

It hard for us to see ourselves as three parts?
We see our flesh and think our flesh brain is the main part! But we also see the flesh dies and turns to Dust! then we think again? What is left! the body is gone and the brain had is also gone?
But out Spirit has its own soul [brain]

I asked GOD last year? How can this be LORD, He told me , Everything we did our of LOVE goes with our our Spirits mind!That is why we remember our dad and moms!
I know its very hard to look past what we see! After all we taught by babies to judge all things by what we see! NOW being a child of GOD ! We must live By Faith! Faith tells us HIS living Words are truth Above all things we see!

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
 
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