The trinity

[Gracealone]

<!-- message --> Thankyou OneHeart4Jesus i agree with you there, people who believe the trinity always seem to come up with stuff about God the father and God the son and God the holy spirit, but as far as i can see those names areent even mentioned in the bible.

Wow, I am confused here....Seems this thread started out with someone saying the above, now many pages later, I'm not sure who is saying what! lOL

So, to go back to the beginning I can say this....Those names are mentioned in the Bible...
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[JWayne]

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are, therefore we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean it is not true or not based on the teachings of the Bible.

Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word "Trinity" is not used in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God, the fact that there are three coexistent, co-eternal persons that make up God. Understand that this is NOT in any way suggesting three Gods. The Trinity is one God made up of three persons. There is nothing wrong with using the term "Trinity" even though the word is not found in the Bible. It is shorter to say the word "Trinity" than to say "three coexistent, co-eternal persons making up one God." If this presents a problem to you, consider this: the word grandfather is not used in the Bible either. Yet, we know there were grandfathers in the Bible. Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob. What should be of real importance is that the concept that is represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. With the introduction out of the way, Bible verses will be given in discussion of the Trinity.

1) There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5.

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons: Genesis 1:1; 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; 48:16; 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17; Matt 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14. In the passages in the Old Testament, a knowledge of Hebrew is helpful. In Genesis 1:1, the plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. That "Elohim" and "us" refer to more than two is without question. In English, we only have two forms, singular and plural. In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual, and plural. Dual is for two ONLY. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs like eyes, ears, and hands. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms—definitely more than two—and must be referring to three or more, in this case Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages: In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from "God" (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament John 14:16-17, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit. This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all of the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God: The Father is God: John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2. The Son is God: John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. The Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16. (The One who indwells is the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9; John 14:16-17; Acts 2:1-4).

5) The subordination within the Trinity: Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see: Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21; 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see: John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7 and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The tasks of the individual members of the Trinity: The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1; Matthew 11:27; John 16:12-15; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.


As is, referenced above, the main issue, with this subject, falls solely on having true faith in what God tells us.[Father God we do not understand but without doubt we shall accept you and your word where is, as is.] Unfortunately as humans many of us insist on insisting that the Bible says "more or less" than it actually does.

It is ok for us not to fully understand it, but it is not ok for us to attempt to change the meaning. [In most cases, simply to benefit our own selfish desires.] But we are to fully accept God at His Word.

LET GO & LET GOD!

 

[Gracealone]

I believe, and that is accounted unto me for righteousness.......

 

[JWayne]

I believe, and that is accounted unto me for righteousness.......

That's all that matters. All the discussion in the world can nor ever will change that fact. I too beleive and accept as it is.

 

[Boanerges]

Most of the confusion on this issue centers around the deity of Christ.
There are many scriptures that declare Jesus to be man.
There are some scriptures that declare Jesus to be God.
Some take the first and ignore the second, this is how a major cult was birthed.
To get a real understanding one must view one scriptural position in light of the other.
Yes Jesus is man.
Yes Jesus is God.
Yes He was both. He is God come to walk with us. He is Emmanuel.

 

[Trudy]

HE IS ONE <Apostolic>

<table style="width: 100%; font-size: 100%; font-family: sans-serif;"><tbody><tr><td class="s_verse" style="width: 100%; padding-right: 6px; padding-left: 6px;" valign="top">Oneness says that God manifest himself in three different persons but not at the same time, ex, God turned himself into Jesus and the Jesus turned himself into the Holy Spirit, but he is never all at once. Jesus said that I do not my will but the will of (HIM) that (SENT) me. A man does not send himself to be sent come from the order of another. Jesus also said I will pray the Father and He shall (SEND) the comforter which is the Holy Spirit. Jesus says that the God (is a) Spirit, Jesus was in a flesh body at the time he claimed this. John 4:24 In Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven, two me stood by them in white apparel (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in liker manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. If what the Oneness say is true then this means that God is flesh, not Spirit. And according to what Acts 1:11 says Jesus will come back in the same manner differs from what Acts 2:2-4<nobr>



<embed src="http://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/814047/trinity_is_antichrist_christian_sermon_video_by_bro_steve_winte.swf" width="400" height="345" wmode="transparent" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true"> </embed><br><font size = 1><a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/814047/trinity_is_antichrist_christian_sermon_video_by_bro_steve_winte/">Trinity Is Antichrist Christian Sermon Video By Bro. Steve Winte</a> - <a href="http://www.metacafe.com/">Awesome video clips here</a></font>


Acts 2:38</nobr>
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.\

<table style="width: 100%; font-size: 120%; font-family: sans-serif;"><tbody><tr><td class="s_verse" style="width: 100%; padding-right: 6px; padding-left: 6px;" valign="top"><nobr>John 10:30</nobr>
I and my Father are one.</td></tr></tbody></table>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[DeeperStill]

So............

Are you oneness Trudy? Are you a modalist? Or are you trinitarian

Often blasphemy is done in ignorance... Paul did it and many today do. I believe that it is blasphemous ,in ignorance, that says that the triune Godhead is antichrist.

Oneness is heresy.


T

 

[Trudy]

Deeper

I am oneness the father son and holy ghost is one...Make sure you watch the video

 

[DeeperStill]

Trudy,

When does a believer receive the presence of the Holy Spirit; after they have fulfilled all the holy requirements or before. Meaning. Is your salvation God's gift to you or is it your reward for obedience?

T

 

[Gracealone]

Oneness says that God manifest himself in three different persons but not at the same time, ex, God turned himself into Jesus and the Jesus turned himself into the Holy Spirit, but he is never all at once.

How is it then that when Jesus was baptized, the Father spoke from Heaven ,"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", the Holy Spirit descended as a dove, and Jesus was there in person?All three, at the same time .?
:shock: Matthew 3:16-17

And No, I will not watch your video, and wonder how you managed to even post it here.?

You need to ask Chad for permission to post?

 

[Boanerges]

I am oneness the father son and holy ghost is one...Make sure you watch the video

How do you explain these verses?

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


God does all things in oreder and it is apparent from these verses that the Son will always be in submission to the Father .

 

[Gracealone]

I can show you the trinity in one scene in The Bible, but it is all throughout the Bible, if you care to see, and believe......Mark 1:9-11

And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him; and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom, I am well pleased.

Here we have Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father all visible at the same time, but in separate forms.
Jesus being baptized, the Father speaking from heaven, and the Holy Spirit , like a dove descending upon him.
Later in Matthew 28:19 we see these words;

Go ye therefore,and teach all nations,baptizing them in the name, of the Father ,and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Just because we ,with a finite mind, has trouble understanding, the God head, doesn't make it not so.
Genesis speaks of God at creation, Let Us make man in our own image.....etc. etc. etc.
I believe, and sure don't totally understand.....that's what faith is all about.
Isn't it?
God said it, I believe it.

 

[carlos marquez]

Trudy.I watched that video, and I have to tell you to be careful of dudes like this preacher man,thats a scary figure you posted up there, and he was sure having fun spewing venom against the saints.May he find mercy and crawl out of his darkness
and into God's marvelous ligth.


1Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal,immortal,invisible,the only wise God,be honor and glory forever and ever.Amen.

 

[GreglovesJesus]

Go ye therefore,and teach all nations,baptizing them in the name, of the Father ,and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus was merely explaining to his deciples what he wanted them to do. This wasnt an actual baptism. Also, you can see "name" not names......this denoted singular, one name....and that name is Jesus.

One must remember when reading the Bible if Jesus was speaking as a man or as God.....as a man, he wept, he thirsted, he hungered and as God he performed miracles, healings, etc.

Genesis speaks of God at creation, Let Us make man in our own image

Some believe God was refering the the Angels. I believe he was refering to his divine majesty as a whole. (hope that makes sense)

I look at Jesus and God like a river, take a glass and dip it into the river, you dont have the entire river in the glass but what you do have is 100% river water.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

One must remember when reading the Bible if Jesus was speaking as a man or as God.....as a man, he wept, he thirsted, he hungered and as God he performed miracles, healings,etc.

When Jesus walked the earth, He was fully human (24/7) as well as being God. I think Paul explains this quite well in Philippians 2:5-8. Since He had temporarily surrendered use of His powers and prerogatives as God, His miracles were done through the power of the Holy Spirit (see Lk 5:18, Mt 12:28).

SLE

 

[GreglovesJesus]

Very good point.......I'm still quite new in my walk and learning everyday. Thanks!

 

[Br. Bear]

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Galatians 3:22



In the beginning was the Word, the Word became flesh, His name, Jesus.

Let us look at the the Word, and let us look at His name.

When the LORD said something, He puts His name to it, it is His Word, and will do as He pleases, as it is sent out to do, and will not return void to Him.

Abraham was given God's Word, a Promise.

If I said to you that I will give you something, you could believe me or doubt me. Abraham believed God's Word, he believed what God said, what God, Who can not lie, promised.
Now a remarkable thing about this is that the Word God gave was for Abraham and his seed after him. Abraham did not have any children. Yet, he believed. Not only did he not have children, but he was old and his wife Sarah was old as well. If someone told you, at ninety years old, you were to have children, and that you were to be a father to many nations, what would you say? Most would laugh, which is what Sarah did. Isaac means laughter. Isaac was the seed, the child that Abraham and Sarah had.

Now, this Word that the LORD gave to Abraham, He called a Covenant, and Everlasting Covenant.
Genesis 17:7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

So, did the LORD keep His Word? His Name is His Word.

1Chronicles 16:8-36 Give thanks unto the LORD, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people.
Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works.
Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
Remember his marvellous works that he hath done, his wonders, and the judgments of his mouth;
O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;
When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it.
And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people;
He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
Sing unto the LORD, all the earth; shew forth from day to day his salvation.
Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.
For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.
Glory and honour are in his presence; strength and gladness are in his place.
Give unto the LORD, ye kindreds of the people, give unto the LORD glory and strength.
Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: and let men say among the nations, The LORD reigneth.
Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof: let the fields rejoice, and all that is therein.
Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.
O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.
And say ye, Save us, O God of our salvation, and gather us together, and deliver us from the heathen, that we may give thanks to thy holy name, and glory in thy praise.
Blessed be the LORD God of Israel for ever and ever. And all the people said, Amen, and praised the LORD.

God is Love. He SO loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The Word became flesh. Jesus, the Salvation of the LORD, appeared, His name, Jesus.

His Covenant to man, His Promise fulfilled, the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. John 1:33

Jesus Christ, the Living Word, Christ, the Anointed One, full of the Holy Ghost, the anointing being the fulfilment of the Covenant, His Word. We see How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: Who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him. Acts 10:38


God is Spirit, John 4:23-24 .

So, can we seperate The LORD from Himself? What we call the Trinity, is a very brief summary of the Gospel. While we debate if and what Trinity means, we can miss the anointing, the Promise, the Word, and the Life, eternal life in Christ.

1.You are reading this. 2.You are also breathing. 3.You are also awake. All seperate functions, but without each other, well..... think about it.

May the LORD bless you and keep you as He promised to do to all who believe,


Bless you ....><>


Br. Bear



Acts 3:2526 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Unto you first God, having raised up His Son Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

[ushalk]

god- the master of all things thought of and done.

jesus- the word which was spoken out of the mouth of god. he is every command.

holy spirit- the breath of life that was given to adam in the beginning and to us when we are given life eternal.

john 1

genesis 1- 2:7

acts 2: 1-4

we make the trinity hard to understand but this is the revelation that the lord has given me.

 

[ushalk]

another scripture is 1 john 5:7-8.

 

[muarader64]

Cheers, I definitely feel blessed to read some of what some of you have written indeed!

Consider:

When someone or something is given a title, perhaps one that seems like it should only be applied to God, does that automatically mean that someone or something is God? Or, should we carefully examine whatever, or whomever has been given the title, the intent being so that we may come to the TRUTH?

Jesus is called by many titles in the Bible. Isaiah 9:6: ‘For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;'

or another translation:

Isaiah 9:6: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.".

My name(Anwar) by interpretation means Means "Luminous", or "brighter" in Arabic. The name "Michael" by interpretation means "who is like God(not necessarily in Arabic)?". I've been called by other names as well(nicknames, not actual interpretations of my real name), such as "Turbo" and "Tito". If Michael can be called by an interpretation of his name: "Who is like God?", but his name is Michael and he's not actually God himself: can not Jesus be called by an supposed interpretation of his name(Immanuel) such as "God with us" and be not actually God himself(he is not God himself)?

One can say Adam was and can be called "The Father of mankind", seeing as how he was the first man and mankind multiplied from him and his wife right? Jesus Christ is like the "2nd Adam", whom lives forever at the right hand of God in Heaven, making intercession for us to God right? 1 Corinthians 15 : 22: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" : (A prophecy given aforetime before Jesus came to earth: Not from or found in the Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians):"he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities", and: (From an Epistle of Paul): "he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them" right?

(Consider some of my interpretations:

Men are born with a sinful nature(one with a tendency to sin/ born in a graven state), inherited from the first man: Adam(whom transgressed against God long long ago, and became a transgressor). So then, being born into this world: children of Adam, we were born of "corruptible seed" no? Christ Jesus said, as it is written: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.". A "Born-AGAIN Christian"(born of the spirit) is born of Incorruptible seed(by and the Word of God) and is from thence forth child of Jesus Christ(the perfect, and sinless son of God) right?

Christ Jesus said in a time far past, as it is written in The Gospel according to John Chap. 6 : 63:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere)


Some of the titles that have been applied to Jesus, or names that he has been called by, God himself has also been called by, and have also been applied to him and some have not. The titles of God himself: Lord, King, Alpha and Omega, and God, have been applied to both Jesus and God himself, and they have both been called by those titles. But, Jesus is also called Son, Son of God, only-begotten, firstborn, Word of God, Messiah, and Prince, while these titles do not apply to God himself. Jehovah is also called "God of gods", "Almighty", "All-Sufficient", "The Most High" and "The Highest", while these titles do not apply to Jesus Christ. It is some of my understanding of and by the usage of titles in the Bible, that they can show and indicate ones authority, duties, or character traits, ie. "El-Channun" or, "The Gracious God". There could be more.