KingJ
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You need to go back to the original post using it. You will see plenty broken telephone.
The real big problem with a non-OSAS belief
- Thread starter KingJ
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You need to go back to the original post using it. You will see plenty broken telephone.
I would offer .If you mean no one has received their new born again bodies. I would agree
all die not receiving it .
Christ is the lamb slain from the foundation the 6 days the Father did work Not the demonstration thousands of years later;
Abel is the first recorded born-again apostle (believer. )
It's this time (the present) and or continuing in the (age to come)
Remember two books two is the word that indicates God not seen has spoken. God's testimony.
The book of life all names of those created and coming along side as a comparison or parable. Lambs book of life all of those who will rise on the last day and receive the promise of a new body. neither male nor female, Jew nor Gentile
.
When the books (two) are opened. Those not found in the Lamb book. Slain from the foundation (6 days) will be erased form the book of life like they were never born the first time.
B-A-C
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So you're saying.. if you're a believer.. you're an apostle?
If that's true, then there are currently millions of apostles all over the world today.
I have no idea what this sentence means.
?? ?? ?? Everything in the Bible isn't a parable. 99% of what is in the Bible isn't a parable. Only "some" (not all) of what Jesus said was parables.
Nothing in the old testament is a parable (there were visions). Nothing outside of the 4 gospels is a parable.
I see nothing in the Bible that says our new bodies will be genderless, or even raceless. That is speculation, and adding words to the Bible.
Well, I do agree some will be erased. I've heard the "two" books theory before. Now of the Bible does says there are "books" (multiple)
But I don't see anywhere it says there are multiple books of life. So then.. you're saying there's God's book of life, and then there's the lamb's book of life? There may be a book keeping discrepancy between them? Your name might be in one, but not the other?
You would think the angels would be better at keeping records than that. So then.. now that we have two different sources.. which one is the correct one? Does God's book of life take precedence or does the Lamb's book of life take precedence?
th1bill
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Xin loi, but you and Garee err. Yehovah God is not limited and knows the future, ie. the Book of the Revelation, and the books of the prophets. And then there is the truth that the Scriptures interpret themselves and therefore no sentence, portion of a sentence, nor grouping of cherry-picked sentences can be fully and/or correctly understood without the light of all scripture shining upon it.
Bill
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But that isn't scripture. We know that Jesus States that Judas iscariot's name was written in heaven.
whether or not God knows the future doesn't matter with regard to the question of, was your name written and then blotted out, or was it never written in the first place.
Dylan569
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Nowhere in scripture is it recorded that Jesus said Judas’ name had been written in the Lamb’s book of life.
The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, in your name even the demons submit to us!” He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like a flash of lightning. Indeed, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will hurt you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice at this, that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” (Luk 10:17-20 NRSVue)
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? Yet one of you is a devil.” He was speaking of Judas son of Simon Iscariot, for he, though one of the twelve, was going to betray him. (Joh 6:70-71 NRSVue)
The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that one by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that one not to have been born.” (Mat 26:24 NRSVue)
and all the inhabitants of the earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slaughtered. (Rev 13:8 NRSVue)
The beast that you saw was and is not and is about to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will be amazed when they see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. (Rev 17:8 NRSVue)
If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes, and I will not erase your name from the book of life; I will confess your name before my Father and before his angels. (Rev 3:5 NRSVue)
That last verse is an assurance that their names will NOT be erased from the book of life. No one who was written in the Lamb’s book of life from before the foundation of the world is ever in scripture said to have been erased!
Dave M
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it says if you conquer I will not erase your name from the book of life, --- To me that suggest if you do not conquer your name will be removed from the book of life........
Whats interesting to me is the number of times people cherry pick which negative (or positive) complementary position is allowed to be useful in an argument, but from a different part of the bible, the same complementary, negative or positive position, is not allowed to be used in an argument.
you really have to either disallow all complementary (not explicitly stated examples) or allow all.
i once caught my dad starting to realize he is not born again, and i found him reading the bible and he says to me:
"I think everyone's name is written in the book of life until they are evil enough that God blots them out".
i'm like.. wut?
@KingJ
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I wonder if it could be inferred?
17Now the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!”
18And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
19Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.
20Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”
66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?”
68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
69 “We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”
71 Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of cthe twelve, 1was going to betray Him.
Curtis
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1Jn 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Who are those who will not overcome this world? Only those who are not born of God and who do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
the cop-out i've seen recently on another forum is that God can give people who are not his, the same spiritual power he has given the belivers.
it uh, doesn't make much sense to me.
-to which they will reply "for the things of God are beyond mankind" etc...
(such a logical belief structure is usually part of the calvanist spirit which usually states that you can't know if you are part of the elect or not regardless how much or how far you have traveled with God)
Dave M
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do you scripture for that? Jesus is speaking to the church, one of the last versus is the Bible warn us AGAIN of God removing our names from the book of life. Warning after warning about being removed from the book of life, if Your name is not written in it already why would he bother warning us it could be blotted out??
Revelation 22:19
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
Dylan569
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I do not go by what seems to “suggest”, I prefer the direct words of God.
“For the love of God is this, that we obey his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome, for whatever is born of God conquers the world. And this is the victory that conquers the world, our faith. Who is it who conquers the world but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1Jn 5:3-5 NRSVue)
“And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.” (1Jn 3:23 NRSVue)
“Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not murder; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Rom 13:8-10 NRSVue)
Paul shows that Christian love is not some wishy-washy, emotional tripe that the world teaches, but it is treating others right and loving God with all our heart.
Curtis
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Don’t you think false teachers who are not saved would be the ones who add and or take away from scriptures?
They are also known as false brethren.
Dylan569
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When Christians start inferring things from what is written, that is when one risks going into heresy.
“And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” (1Co 4:6 KJV)
“I have applied all this to Apollos and myself for your benefit, brothers, so that you may learn through us what 'Not beyond what is written' means, so that none of you will be puffed up in favor of one against another.” (1Co 4:6 NRSVue)
Here is a biblical example of what happens when people start inferring things in the faith of Jesus Christ:
“When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, ‘Lord, what about him?’ Jesus said to him, ‘If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? Follow me!’ So the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, ‘If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?’” (Joh 21:21-23 NRSVue)
B-A-C
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Agreed. But that's no guarantee that they will stay saved. We are back to the "overcome once" argument.
Or do you have to keep on overcoming? Just because you overcame once.. is that enough?
B-A-C
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Curtis
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This is what Jesus said to the church in Sardis.....
....... “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
Rev 3:2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.
Rev 3:3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.
Rev 3:4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. (ESV)
A completely dead church, except for a few who have not soiled their garments. (These few have overcome in this world) Jesus tells them he will NEVER blot out their names from his book. Conquers (born-again believers) will NEVER have their names removed from the book of life!
Being an overcomer happens in this life, not the next, as there is nothing to overcome in the next life.
....... “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
Rev 3:2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.
Rev 3:3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.
Rev 3:4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. (ESV)
A completely dead church, except for a few who have not soiled their garments. (These few have overcome in this world) Jesus tells them he will NEVER blot out their names from his book. Conquers (born-again believers) will NEVER have their names removed from the book of life!
Being an overcomer happens in this life, not the next, as there is nothing to overcome in the next life.
