The church vs LGBQT community

[MissBecca]

Hello Hello!

I have recently been put through something that has questioned my place at my church.
So I have come here to gain some perspective and help me with what I am struggle with.

There seems to be a divide between the church community and the LGBQT community that no one talks about.
I am wondering what your opinions are on accepting the LGBQT community into the church.
Would this make you uncomfortable?
Would you be accepting?
Would it be okay to have a leader within the church who was apart of the LGBQT community?

There are no right or wrong answers l, I truly want to know your opinion on the matter.

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- God's Word does Not sanction homosexuality -- the practice of.

If same-sex people want to come to hear God's Word taught -- by all means. Everyone needs to hear His Word taught.

The LGBQT community wants to be accepted by all. But that is accepting same-sex relationships / couples. Usually the 'goal' is to go to church and make it obvious that they 'like' each other and get the reaction of those around them.

That which makes 'it' uncomfortable is that they- - as well as us -- know that it is against God's Word. 'they' are wanting an excuse to say that the Church is against them and to Do something about it.

And, no , it would Not be okay to have a leader within the church being openly 'gay' -- part of the LGBQT community. That would, in effect, be showing Support of that group and God's Word is Not supportive of that. It's an abomination -- it's putrid in His eyes.

There Have been instances where one or two couples Have gone to a church -- been 'accepted' and pretty soon a whole Bunch of same-sex couples are there being disruptive and trying to take over the church.

that which the church Needs to do is emphasize Genesis -- God created man and then woman. Told them to be fruitful and multiply. Marriage is between one man and one woman and there is to be sexual purity Before marriage. That effectively negates same-sex Anything.

 

[Andyindauk]

Oh Becca,

You've opened a can o' worms here The short answer is no, LBTQ are not welcome in most evangelical churches. Their lifestyle is contrary to God's laws and Apostles advice, New Testament and Old.

But that said, Jesus was welcoming of unwelcome sections of society, prostitutes, tax collectors, Roman soldiers (part of the occupation force) and most surprisingly, Samaritans. Samaritans were compromisers - a foot in two camps and so hated by the Jews seemingly even more than Romans.

However the question of gays never came up during Jesus's time on Earth or if it did, it didn't get recorded in any of the gospels. It's dealt with in the epistles so it must have been an issue during Jesus's time.

My own personal view is that no one is outside of the love of God and for that reason I cringe when I hear church leaders and preachers go off on anti-gay rants that to the casual listener sound as though they are beyond and outside of God's love, some crossing the line into homophobic territory. That is meat and gravy to our enemy Satan who thrives on division, prejudice and hatred. His message to LGBTQ is that God hates you and the Church hates you, there's no place for you in God's grace - don't even go there! To the young who tend to be more liberal, churches can seem like they're full of fuddy-duddy, bigoted small minded people with 1950s attitudes. That can be very off-putting even to straight people who are really put off by prejudice. Like I say, Satan rubs his hands in glee.

That said the Church cannot compromise on the Bible's teaching. Churches that do are castigated by God, read John's letter to the church in Thyatira in Revelation 2:20-23. This rails against all sexual immorality which presumably incudes adultery and gay sex which is like I said earlier is forbidden in Old and New Testaments. In 1 Corinthians 6:18 we're told to shun sexual immorality.

Does this mean that we're called to discriminate and show dislike and disdain towards the LGBTQ? Absolutely not, rather the Church must reach out to all sections, because God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son John 3:16. So I'll have nothing to do with those who claim religious persecution because they refuse to bake a gay wedding cake or refuse gay couples to their B&B. That's definitely not the message of the gospel. That said the Church must not shy away from Biblical teaching so that a gay convert is left to sin in ignorance. God is asking the bi's to stick with the opposite sex and not stray and gays to be celibate. That's a big ask but I truly believe that that's a massive ask of God and one which He'll reward with a crown so dazzling we'll all have to wear sunshades!

It's a very fine line. Hope that gives you some perspective.

 

[Sue D.]

Part of the problem is that Society has gotten so far away from Biblical morality that they want to condone everything. -- in the name of 'love'.

In the very beginning -- God put a man and a woman in the garden of Eden -- and later on -- Noah and his family -- come together and multiply -- reproduce -- through the concept of Family. To spread out and populate the world.

Our human bodies are created to be able To reproduce. Biology 101 -- man + woman = baby. /// what happens when two women get together and have sex? Nothing. /// two men together -- again -- nothing.

And there are Lots of ways to express 'love' -- physical intimacy is but one way.

And plain old Friendship is something that Society needs to be reminded of as to what it is. Friendship with No sexual strings attached.

And Biblically there is no room for hate. But lots of room for sincere concern for the emotional, physical, psychological , spiritual well fare of other people.

Sexual sins are against our own body. Many times resulting in disease -- incurable disease. Diseases that will prevent conception. Is That what a person Really Wants.

The Church is made up of born again believers -- why would a born again believer want to do that which is putrid in God's eyes. That which is called an abomination to God.

Society has evolved into an "if it feels good, do it" and " ya only live once, so why not enjoy 'it' while you can". The only drawback is that there Is eternity in everyone's future. That which we Do today determines where we Will be.

The only reason a person will end up in hell is because they reject God's one and only way to stay out. John 3:16.

 

[Gregoryp]

Refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding? Of course , why condone an abomination in the site of our lord. Refuse an airbnb booking for a gay couple, yes, as they would be copulating in my household. The gospel has been watered to such an extent God is almost and his rules are almost redundant. repent and turn to Jesus, sin no more.

 

[Brad Huber]

If they obey the laws of the land, that stand against chaos, then I am happy to call them neighbor. If they want moral acceptance amidst brethern in Christ, they must be cast out of fellowship of said church. You dont hate the sinner, but you must hate the sin. This is clear in scripture.

 

[Sue D.]

Honestly -- I'm not sure How I'd react to having neighbors who were obviously a same-sex couple. It would probably depend on how they acted when outside of their house. For some reason -- having a man/ woman couple sitting on their porch with the guys / gals arm around the other one -- it's okay. Seeing two women or two men together like that would be well -- no thank you. Especially two men. It simply goes Against nature.

We're Supposed to be up-holding God's Word -- not ignoring it.

Now there are Probably same-sex couples who live nice, quiet, productive lives -- That I could live around. But they do need Jesus Christ as part of their lives.

There was a couple of guys who claimed that they read the Bible together every day and prayed and apparently God has no problem with their 'being together' because they haven't been struck dead, yet. Just can't accept That as being totally honest with them. Supposedly they are both believers. How would God possibly be blessing a relationship that's an abomination to Himself and that is putrid in His eyes.

There was Also a real life situation where a couple was going to church -- they split up -- stayed at the same church -- the guy would sit on one side of the auditorium and the woman on the Other side. Then the guy started bringing his girlfriend to church with him. Well -- in a few weeks -- she accepted Christ as her Savior. She realized that she was sinning and broke off the relationship.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Would it be okay to have a leader within the church who was apart of the LGBQT community?

Dear MissBecca,
First welcome to Talk Jesus an online Forum of Christian Believers!

Second, to your question. Fleshing it out a little and the answer can be yes. Yes, because if they have repented, and are no longer part of the LGBQT community, and no longer practice what is unacceptable, there is no reason they could not be the Servant of Christ in leading the church. For we all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. There is no Leader in any church that hasn't sinned, so a repentant sinner, can lead a church, because they're leading the church's right now! I will add a caveat to this. If they should fall back into this sin, then they must step down from the position they hold.

Read 1 Timothy 3 this chapter might help you.

Once, again, be welcomed to Talk Jesus!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Sue D.]

@Christ4Ever -- if the person who wanted to be in a leadership position in a church and he / she was identifying as part of the LGBQT community -- that doesn't sound like there has been repentance in their life.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Christ4Ever -- if the person who wanted to be in a leadership position in a church and he / she was identifying as part of the LGBQT community -- that doesn't sound like there has been repentance in their life.

Dear Sister Sue,
Notice the operative word in their question which is "was". Which is past tense. I do agree with you that the individual cannot be a part of the LGBQT community and be in leadership, but if they have put that behind them in repentance then that is what should be considered.

However, going even further with that, is some ministries that attempt to have an outreach to the LGBQT community, and blurring the lines to acceptance of the life style while doing so that I have an issue with (1 Corinthians 5:6). I can give an example in the church I attend a few years ago, there were two individuals who I assumed had repented of the homosexual life. One actually got marred with children, while the other was still single, and a bit flamboyant in their mannerisms. Which of course doesn't mean that they are, but in this case they were. They both participated in ministry in one fashion or another i.e. Church plays, choir, etc. At the time I didn't know that the married individual had been homosexual. I knew the wife, who worked in the same building as I did, but had no connection with them as a couple. While the single individual, I really only knew through his mother who is a Godly woman, and we sat close to each other in church. Having the occasional conversation now and again between my wife and her. I can only assume that it was the married individual who made or gravitated to the other individuals general behavior. To make a long story short. They both got into a relationship, which destroyed the marriage, and hurt the children involved greatly. When all this came to light to the ministry team, they removed both from any participation in ministry, and both eventually left the church entirely. Whether it was at the prompting of the church leadership, or because the family of the married man still attended, and they (homosexual couple) felt that it was best all around to leave, I really don't know.

Now multiply this by having an actual ministry into the LGBQT Community and it would not be hard to see the affect it can have in the church in general. Add to it that you're not not even taking into account how others in church would react, with their families, and you may be opening the door to Satan in whatever church decides to do this big time. So, if a church is deciding to start something like this (ministry), much prayer, and inclusion of the congregation, board, etc. I believe is a must. However, even then I would not be surprised if the church itself split, if they move forward in doing this. I also believe what must also be considered is that God gave them up to such behavior (Romans Chapter 1), so only in Christ Jesus can these chains be broken.

I hope this clarifies a little of what I had written and my perspective on this subject.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Sue D.]

Chrst4Ever -- it would depend on how the word "was" was being used. -- "was' in the past tense or "was'" as in an on-going situation. I was reading it as an on-going participation.

There was a lady I'd known briefly as part of a counseling seminar. We'd gone to lunch together -- her husband had been part of the gay community and come out of it. They ended up getting married and had been for maybe 10 yrs. But even after that long -- the attraction to the gay life-style was still with him. He and his wife had a very serious conversation and he decided to go back and see about the relationship he'd left all those years ago.

Sometimes there can be a situation that comes up - out of the blue- in a person's life. They discover an 'itch' that had never been there before. There had been an underlying curiosity about the womans part of it and that curiosity was taken care of. But it Also resulted in more and more curiosity -- women tend to be closer in relationships than men are. And maybe a husband isn't really very attentive -- maybe a workaholic -- so she ends up wistfully observing other women in close relationships. She might Never carry through with those ideas in real life -- but Internet can be very intriqing / captivating. And when / if/ a situation in a Church would present itself. Well -- satan is out to destroy family -- Church in any way possible.

So -- the individual person needs to be very aware of Boundaries. If / when / a man or woman friend Would appear to be wanting more closeness than you're comfortable With -- say something to the person. And some women are natural born huggers. Or a kisser on the cheek person. Sometimes -- this day and age -- it's better to be a bit stand-of-ish.

And Some of the homosexuality Can be a real pull for a person. That is where they Are attracted To. Someone can be Trying to be straight -- they don't really want to be gay -- and the thought Is -- why should They be deprived of being able To show love to the other person. It Could be pointed out to them that their bodies are not made To respond the same way that men and women's bodies Are designed to show love. So God's Word says they are to remain celebate for the sake Of obeying God's Word. There are all kinds of circumstances in this world.

Soceity Does get into the church because Society are people. And people Need to be taught God's Word on subjects like divorce and remarriage and homosexuality and fornication. Lots of people have no problem with including sex while dating. -- nowdays it's sort of expected. And its' because Biblical morals / ethics are being ignored. It's not Popular to teach Bible. It's laughed at in higher education.

So -- homosexuality -- handled very carefully with 'kid gloves'.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

There seems to be a divide between the church community and the LGBQT community that no one talks about.

I don't know that "nobody talks about it". Seems that it's a pretty popular subject - not controversial at all. Every show on TV these days, has a "Gay Couple", or a sexually confused character "trying to find themselves", etc.

Doesn't matter!!! It's JUST WRONG Biblically. There will NEVER be a Homosexual MARRIAGE (regardless of the civil laws determining such things), and Homosexual physical activity IS WRONG - period.

SO much for the "LGBQT Community". No matter HOW "Socially acceptable it is, it's STILL an abomination in God's sight.

On the other hand, Homosexual INDIVIDUALS are a different issue. A Gay man (my history teacher in High School) was the best man in my wedding. He didn't try to involve me in his "Gay lifestyle", and I didn't pull any punches with him about what the Bible said about the subject. We respected each other as "Brothers in the flesh" even though there was a huge disagreement about sexual activities. I for one see two types of Homosexuals - the REAL ONES who are actually ONLY attracted to the same sex, and the Wannabees, who aren't Homosexual (or in some cases "Sexual" at all), but for one reason or another seek to identify with the Gay community.

The LGBQT "Community", on the other hand has a PRODUCT TO SELL. It's a SATANIC product that doesn't accept any questioning of its legitimacy, so naturally they would LOVE to infiltrate the Body of Christ with their satanic agenda.

There ABSOLUTELY ARE "Right, and Wrong answers. There are TWO SEXES, and Homosexuality is an abomination.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I was reading it as an on-going participation.

Dear Sister Sue,
And I was not. However, I do agree with your post. Temptation will always be there, because the Adversary doesn't give up on trying to destroy that which is good. Thankfully in God we have the resources to persevere through all the trials & tribulations that we are faced with. Remembering that we have in Christ Jesus, the victory!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Sue D.]

@Bob Carabbio -- there Are those who are bi-sexual. They are okay with intimate relationships with Either sex. And the 'in your face' homosexuals are possibly the most dangerous. They definitely have an agenda -- and anyone who Doesn't agree with them are 'homophobic'. They want the young kids to grow up thinking that it's okay to have two Mommies or two Daddies.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

@Bob Carabbio -- there Are those who are bi-sexual. They are okay with intimate relationships with Either sex. And the 'in your face' homosexuals are possibly the most dangerous. They definitely have an agenda -- and anyone who Doesn't agree with them are 'homophobic'. They want the young kids to grow up thinking that it's okay to have two Mommies or two Daddies.

It's TRUE that there are all sorts of Sexual corruptions, promoted by any number of human "Experts", and accepted by human "Morals" Ethics, and Social Mores. Totally unimportant.

The simple fact is that there ONLY TWO SEXES Male and Female - period, and there is ONLY ONE Biblical Marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN. and there's no rationalization to the contrary that means SPIT. Case closed.

 

[Sue D.]

No one is trying to say there are more than two sexes. Male and female. And anything other than the male/ female relationship / marriage Is a corruption of God's intentionsl

Those concept that you feel are Totally Unimportant Are important when 'we' are dealing with those in Society along with us. At times we Will have opportunity To know those who believe differently that we do regarding Biblical ethics/ morals, etc. We Need to be able to talk with them in a peaceful manner if we hope to bring them to Christ.

The 'case' Will be closed when born again believers are in heaven.

 

[Gregoryp]

Be aware that there will be street preachers, prophets, who will NOT be speaking in a loving benign manner. They will be speaking with wrath and anger, and descriptions of hell. The temple of Baal uses love as an excuse to go against scripture. Man likes nothing more than having his ears tickled. Simple fact is two men sodomising each other is detestable and an abomination, simple as that. Two women together is even more ridiculous.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Be aware that there will be street preachers, prophets, who will NOT be speaking in a loving benign manner. They will be speaking with wrath and anger, and descriptions of hell. The temple of Baal uses love as an excuse to go against scripture. Man likes nothing more than having his ears tickled. Simple fact is two men sodomising each other is detestable and an abomination, simple as that. Two women together is even more ridiculous.

Dear Gregoryp,
I don't think anyone here is talking about the acceptability of the acts. All will acknowledge the detestability of them. This is an attempt to know that the sin does not have to define a person forever, if they are redeemed. In fact how greater a witness, that they can share a testimony of being Saved from such a consuming life of sin!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Brad Huber]

It's TRUE that there are all sorts of Sexual corruptions, promoted by any number of human "Experts", and accepted by human "Morals" Ethics, and Social Mores. Totally unimportant.

The simple fact is that there ONLY TWO SEXES Male and Female - period, and there is ONLY ONE Biblical Marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN. and there's no rationalization to the contrary that means SPIT. Case closed.

God "Made" them male and female. But with the manipulation of genetic codes, there is some corruption even in that.

 

[Sue D.]

@Brad Huber -- the fact Is that there Are babies born with Both and / or no genitalia. It Is rare. But it Does happen.

As far as genetic codes are concerned. Maybe you've been watching sci-fi -- researchers like to play around at times. But in real life -- there are in-born processes in the human body that take care Of genetic code problems. But people born with such anomilies can't reproduce. A lot die at an early age. And, yes, I've done a bit of studying in that area.

Evolutionists claim that mutations over time will produce a 'new' being. But it takes millions of years -- which no one can verify Anyway.