The Case for a Post Trib Rapture

[Bill]

How is the date unknown? Adam and Eve were made on day 1. Anyone who saw that day just needs to count to 6 000 years.

Scripture tells us as literally as is possible, I even bolded it for you, the seventh day is 1 000 years exactly. Why would the other 6 not be?

Following genealogies of man, the Masoretic text puts us at about 6 000 years right now.

Exodus 20:9-11 states 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work' and we know that God worked six days when He made us.

----------------

Just because we do not know the date does not mean angels and those in heaven don't know the date. Unless you believe no angel, literally none, except perhaps the devil know the first date Adam and Eve were made. Should we amend Matt 24:36 to say that? Nobody knows the day and the hour except for God the Father and the ....devil and Adam and Eve.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

I believe As the scripture States, that no one. And I mean no one knows the day or the hour except for God the Father.

This includes the angels and all the Heavenly beings with the exception of God the Father.

I do know that things have been delayed, even in the Scripture it says things are delayed. And you can change things through prayer. Whether you wish to believe that or not prayer is quite powerful.

Look at Nineveh and Jonah. If Jonah did not preach to Nineveh God would have destroyed Nineveh. But because Jonah preached there the whole city the whole nation got on her knees and prayed.

Look at the Philippines. When they had their Revolution, it wasn't with guns it was through prayer. I read about it and I saw the photos, everyone went to the capital in Manila and they got on their knees and they prayed. And the government collapsed and the people won the country from socialism.

The aerial photograph that went viral during the prayer Revolution looked like a cross with all the people praying kneeling and praying.

Prayer can change things.

I know that many of the Protestants Are praying that The tribulation hurries up, seems to be a pretty strange thing to be praying for don't you think. The destruction of the world as we know it.

They are praying for the tribulation to hurry up because they want to go up in the rapture. Seems pretty selfish to me. This is why I asked you, to whom does the Rapture serve?

Does it serve God for everyone to come off the planet. And I would say no to that because you're not fulfilling what God wants for us to try to reach every possible person on the planet. You can say that oh we broadcast with the radio. But you still not preaching you need to be preaching to everyone constantly repeatedly not just once but repeatedly. Did God ever take away his commission to us and tell us to stop preaching?

Tell your friends who want the rapture, stop praying for the rapture. Stop praying for the tribulation to hurry up. Stop praying for trying to get everything to get moving faster, cuz you're not going to want it to go faster.

Let's start with the first Woe, you're going to have to experience the beginning of the tribulation the first three and a half years . It's going to be devastating . Then the second Woe with the two witnesses. Do you even know what the two witnesses are going to do? They are going to bring God's judgments down on the world. And it's going to be on everyone. The true Christians also will have to go through all of it, the only difference is that they will be protected but they'll still have to go through it. They will survive it. But it doesn't mean you're not going to experience the hardship of it. You really want to hurry up and experience all this stuff, LOL.

 

[NBTT]

As someone who's brain no longer works as it once did, all this rapture and tribulation talk can be overwhelming. I see honest bible believing Christians arriving at different conclusions. For those who have the gift, study hard and be blessed (REV 1:3) and share with the church. For those who can't study, fear not and trust in Christ. The suffering in His name is well rewarded and the Holy Spirit is with us through it all.

 

[Bill]

As someone who's brain no longer works as it once did, all this rapture and tribulation talk can be overwhelming. I see honest bible believing Christians arriving at different conclusions. For those who have the gift, study hard and be blessed (REV 1:3) and share with the church. For those who can't study, fear not and trust in Christ. The suffering in His name is well rewarded and the Holy Spirit is with us through it all.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom. I agree wholeheartedly that the Holy Spirit is with us through it all.

 

[KingJ]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

I believe As the scripture States, that no one. And I mean no one knows the day or the hour except for God the Father.

This includes the angels and all the Heavenly beings with the exception of God the Father.

I do know that things have been delayed, even in the Scripture it says things are delayed. And you can change things through prayer. Whether you wish to believe that or not prayer is quite powerful.

Look at Nineveh and Jonah. If Jonah did not preach to Nineveh God would have destroyed Nineveh. But because Jonah preached there the whole city the whole nation got on her knees and prayed.

Look at the Philippines. When they had their Revolution, it wasn't with guns it was through prayer. I read about it and I saw the photos, everyone went to the capital in Manila and they got on their knees and they prayed. And the government collapsed and the people won the country from socialism.

The aerial photograph that went viral during the prayer Revolution looked like a cross with all the people praying kneeling and praying.

Prayer can change things.

I know that many of the Protestants Are praying that The tribulation hurries up, seems to be a pretty strange thing to be praying for don't you think. The destruction of the world as we know it.

They are praying for the tribulation to hurry up because they want to go up in the rapture. Seems pretty selfish to me. This is why I asked you, to whom does the Rapture serve?

Does it serve God for everyone to come off the planet. And I would say no to that because you're not fulfilling what God wants for us to try to reach every possible person on the planet. You can say that oh we broadcast with the radio. But you still not preaching you need to be preaching to everyone constantly repeatedly not just once but repeatedly. Did God ever take away his commission to us and tell us to stop preaching?

Tell your friends who want the rapture, stop praying for the rapture. Stop praying for the tribulation to hurry up. Stop praying for trying to get everything to get moving faster, cuz you're not going to want it to go faster.

Let's start with the first Woe, you're going to have to experience the beginning of the tribulation the first three and a half years . It's going to be devastating . Then the second Woe with the two witnesses. Do you even know what the two witnesses are going to do? They are going to bring God's judgments down on the world. And it's going to be on everyone. The true Christians also will have to go through all of it, the only difference is that they will be protected but they'll still have to go through it. They will survive it. But it doesn't mean you're not going to experience the hardship of it. You really want to hurry up and experience all this stuff, LOL.

Bill, the problem is that you are not splitting two clearly separate events. One event is known and one is not. You, like many others are grouping these scriptures and teaching them as one event....when one of the two events is clearly a known date and time and the other is not.

 

[Bill]

Bill, the problem is that you are not splitting two clearly separate events. One event is known and one is not. You, like many others are grouping these scriptures and teaching them as one event....when one of the two events is clearly a known date and time and the other is not.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Okay Tell us The date and time If it is so clear to you

 

[KingJ]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Okay Tell us The date and time If it is so clear to you

I don't think you are properly reading my posts. You are skimming.

I was not there at the time Adam was created in Eden. Adam was there. Then Eve. Angels were there too.

To make your case that the tribulation is the supposed ''unknown date'' as the 'second coming' after it is the event Matt 24:36 references, you need to believe Adam, Eve and those angels with them cannot count to 6 000 years or that Matt 24:36 references a separate rapture event.

 

[Bill]

I don't think you are properly reading my posts. You are skimming.

I was not there at the time Adam was created in Eden. Adam was there. Then Eve. Angels were there too.

To make your case that the tribulation is the supposed ''unknown date'' as the 'second coming' after it is the event Matt 24:36 references, you need to believe Adam, Eve and those angels with them cannot count to 6 000 years or that Matt 24:36 references a separate rapture event.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

It's always good to start every message with a blessing, I try to do it as a practice although sometimes I forget.

Anyways back to the subject. Can you or can you not tell us the date and time. If you cannot, then all you're telling us is irrelevant. And the truth is still that you don't know the
day or time.

It's always interesting for those who say they can tell the date and time. Like last year for instance how many people kept saying well it's going to happen in 2025. And I remember in 2024 everyone kept saying it was going to happen in January, then when January passed it was June. And when June passed it was going to be in September or December. And now people are saying it's going to happen in 2026.

Well eventually they're going to get it right because if you keep saying it's going to happen the next month the rest of your life that eventually it'll happen and you will have predicted the month LOL And if you do it if you say tomorrow it's going to happen tomorrow every single day for the rest of your life then eventually you're going to get it right if you live till the day it takes place and you can do that to the hour or two keep predicting it's that next hour, the next hour, the next hour.

Otherwise you plainly do not know.

So which is it? Do you know the date and time? Or don't you?

 

[Gerbolski]

Hi Bill, I am saying this because it is what I am noticing.

Bill you say the rapture is not true, yet we have shown you passages of being caught up in the air and going were he is, which when he comes, he comes down from heaven, and brings us back were he came from, which is heaven.

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When it clearly speaks of the rapture, which all that word means is to be caught up, it never mentions Jesus coming to earth, but when it mentions the second coming, it shows it clearly that he is coming to earth.

Concerning this particular issue, you use a lot of arguments, but have seldom quoted any scripture.

You mention the rapture is being garbage, but show no scripture to prove what you say.

I know you are a Catholic, but are you willing to go against a catholic teaching, if you see it not to be scriptural ?

 

[KingJ]

So which is it? Do you know the date and time? Or don't you?

I don't know.

But what you are missing is the fact that scripture says absolutely nobody except for God the Father knows. That my friend, completely and utterly rules out the tribulation. An exact 7 year event at the end of an exact 6 000 year period that ushers in an exact 1 000 years of peace.

Matt 24:36 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son but only the Father.

 

[KingJ]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

It's always good to start every message with a blessing, I try to do it as a practice although sometimes I forget.

Sure, agreed!

 

[Bill]

Hi Bill, I am saying this because it is what I am noticing.

Bill you say the rapture is not true, yet we have shown you passages of being caught up in the air and going were he is, which when he comes, he comes down from heaven, and brings us back were he came from, which is heaven.

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When it clearly speaks of the rapture, which all that word means is to be caught up, it never mentions Jesus coming to earth, but when it mentions the second coming, it shows it clearly that he is coming to earth.

Concerning this particular issue, you use a lot of arguments, but have seldom quoted any scripture.

You mention the rapture is being garbage, but show no scripture to prove what you say.

I know you are a Catholic, but are you willing to go against a catholic teaching, if you see it not to be scriptural ?

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

The Rapture. The one that so many preachers are preaching about these days has nothing to do with the return of Jesus.

I have noticed that whenever I confront people on the subject of the rapture that they jump to those passages that have to do with the return of Jesus as a means to confirm what they are saying.

We all know that when Jesus returns, it states in the scripture that Jesus will meet us in the air.

The Rapture that I am saying is a false teaching, is the concept that we are going to be taken up to heaven before or during or just after the tribulation as a means of escaping what is coming.

Now I agree that we will meet Jesus in the air in the end. But between now and then there is no such thing as a rapture, no such thing as escaping the planet before the return of Jesus.

I hope this clarifies where I stand with the whole Rapture business.

I know that we will meet Jesus in the air in the end

But any concept of escaping The Coming tribulation that's a joke, that's false teaching. We are going to go through it, just as the early Christians went through their tribulation, just as the Israelites went through their tribulation during the time of Moses. Just like the Jews went through their tribulation during the Holocaust. Now the world is going to go through its tribulation and you and I and everyone on the planet are going to experience it unless you die before it happens

 

[Bill]

I don't know.

But what you are missing is the fact that scripture says absolutely nobody except for God the Father knows. That my friend, completely and utterly rules out the tribulation. An exact 7 year event at the end of an exact 6 000 year period that ushers in an exact 1 000 years of peace.

Matt 24:36 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son but only the Father.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

There's a difference between talking about a 6000 year event or a 7-year event. Even there you cannot give us exactly the date and the time on even those things. Even though you can say it's exactly 7 years you just can't say when it starts.

And that is what I'm trying to get at with you. That no one knows the date or the time but once it starts we all know it's going to be 7 years.

 

[Gerbolski]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

The Rapture. The one that so many preachers are preaching about these days has nothing to do with the return of Jesus.

I have noticed that whenever I confront people on the subject of the rapture that they jump to those passages that have to do with the return of Jesus as a means to confirm what they are saying.

We all know that when Jesus returns, it states in the scripture that Jesus will meet us in the air.

The Rapture that I am saying is a false teaching, is the concept that we are going to be taken up to heaven before or during or just after the tribulation as a means of escaping what is coming.

Now I agree that we will meet Jesus in the air in the end. But between now and then there is no such thing as a rapture, no such thing as escaping the planet before the return of Jesus.

I hope this clarifies where I stand with the whole Rapture business.

I know that we will meet Jesus in the air in the end

But any concept of escaping The Coming tribulation that's a joke, that's false teaching. We are going to go through it, just as the early Christians went through their tribulation, just as the Israelites went through their tribulation during the time of Moses. Just like the Jews went through their tribulation during the Holocaust. Now the world is going to go through its tribulation and you and I and everyone on the planet are going to experience it unless you die before it happens

In the second coming it does not mention meeting him in the air, it mentions people coming down with him on white horses.

Rev 19:14
(14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And concerning escaping, it says this:

Luk 21:36
(36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[Gerbolski]

It shows that the coming of the Lord for his church as being imminent, which can happen at any time, which God knows the day and the hour.

But of course, the word also does show us signs, to show that we are close.

Interesting verses to look at, via thousand year periods, is found in Hosea chapter 6.

 

[Gerbolski]

When I speak of a pre-trib rapture, I am speaking of meeting Jesus in the air first, wherein we get glorified bodies, and then afterwards we go to be in heaven with him.

 

[KingJ]

And that is what I'm trying to get at with you. That no one knows the date or the time but once it starts we all know it's going to be 7 years.

Bill, I am not arguing that. I am saying that scripture cannot be more clear that it is referencing a completely separate event in Matt 24:36.

All people should not be waiting for a tribulation to start before they get right with God. There will be a rapture event before it. One that will come as a surprise.

A tribulation event that starts with the anti-christ / abomination of desolation standing in the holy place / a built temple Matt 24:15, is not going to be a 'surprise' event.

 

[Gerbolski]

Even though God does have a timeline, but concerning the rapture, it is only known to God the day and hour.

But also things to consider via a 6000 year period, then a 1000 year millennial reign (7000th year), is that the calendars have been messed around with many times, which makes it very hard to know the exact time of reaching the 6000 point, but we are getting closer, and only God knows precisely when that will be.

This next scripture is very interesting:

Hos 6:1-2
(1) Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
(2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Who is it speaking of here, regarding the ones that need to return unto the Lord, and how he will heal them and bind them up ?

Hos 5:5
(5) And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; Judah also shall fall with them.

It is speaking of Israel.

And this is a prophecy that Hosea is speaking of.

And it speaks of how one day that Israel shall be revived, and raised up.

When shall Israel be revived ? Well when they receive Christ as a nation, near the second coming of Christ, and this was a long ways from happening in the time of Hosea.

So after 2 days, here represents 2000 years, and then once they get revived and saved at about the time of the second coming, they also get raised up, within the third day.

The third day represents another 1000 year period.

So it speaks of a period of 3000 years.

Well when will Israel, literally live in the Lord's site ? Well at the second coming, which begins the third day, and lasts for 1000 years.

So the third day points to the millennial reign.

I have read many commentaries about this, and some various different preachers, see this scripture in a very similar manner.

Now the debate is, when do you begin to count these 2 days.

Now from creation, to about the time of Jesus, is roughly 4000 years, and 2000 years from there would bring you to 6000, then there is the 3rd day, the millennial reign, the 7000th year.

So the debate is do you start counting from Jesus' birth, or death, or do you start counting from the time of the destruction of the temple in a.d 70 ?

But whatever the case, it would be very hard to get total, precise accuracy.

 

[KingJ]

Even though God does have a timeline, but concerning the rapture, it is only known to God the day and hour.

But also things to consider via a 6000 year period, then a 1000 year millennial reign (7000th year), is that the calendars have been messed around with many times, which makes it very hard to know the exact time of reaching the 6000 point, but we are getting closer, and only God knows precisely when that will be.

This next scripture is very interesting:

Hos 6:1-2
(1) Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
(2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Who is it speaking of here, regarding the ones that need to return unto the Lord, and how he will heal them and bind them up ?

Hos 5:5
(5) And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; Judah also shall fall with them.

It is speaking of Israel.

And this is a prophecy that Hosea is speaking of.

And it speaks of how one day that Israel shall be revived, and raised up.

When shall Israel be revived ? Well when they receive Christ as a nation, near the second coming of Christ, and this was a long ways from happening in the time of Hosea.

So after 2 days, here represents 2000 years, and then once they get revived and saved at about the time of the second coming, they also get raised up, within the third day.

The third day represents another 1000 year period.

So it speaks of a period of 3000 years.

Well when will Israel, literally live in the Lord's site ? Well at the second coming, which begins the third day, and lasts for 1000 years.

So the third day points to the millennial reign.

I have read many commentaries about this, and some various different preachers, see this scripture in a very similar manner.

Now the debate is, when do you begin to count these 2 days.

Now from creation, to about the time of Jesus, is roughly 4000 years, and 2000 years from there would bring you to 6000, then there is the 3rd day, the millennial reign, the 7000th year.

So the debate is do you start counting from Jesus' birth, or death, or do you start counting from the time of the destruction of the temple in a.d 70 ?

But whatever the case, it would be very hard to get total, precise accuracy.

I can see why many would select 70 AD. I don't. I select 33 AD.

The tribulation of seven years is not a period of God abandoning the Jews. Two prophets are given to them. Isa 54:7-8 For a brief moment I abandoned you. Therefore the 'two days' can end 2033 AD.

Why 2033 and not 70 AD?

1. The crucifixion fulfils the ultimate prophetic event

A - Daniel 9:26: “Messiah shall be cut off”
B - Jesus’ death marks the climactic fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy
C - From a theological perspective, this is the pivot point of God’s covenant plan for Israel and the nations
D - Israel rejects the Messiah. Anyone who does this is isolated from God.
E - A temple falling in 70 AD is irrelevant as Jesus ushered in a new covenant. To the Jews first and then to the Gentiles.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

2. Crucifixion = spiritual “end of sacrifice” in reality

Hebrews 10:10-14 emphasizes that Jesus’ sacrifice replaced the entire sacrificial system spiritually, even if the Temple rituals continued until AD 70. Sacrifices became obsolete on the cross, because God accepted Christ once and for all. Hosea’s “without sacrifice” condition should be interpreted spiritually, not literally.

3. Crucifixion = the covenant-breaking moment

AD 70 is the human consequence of rejection, but the actual covenant rupture happened at the moment Israel’s leaders crucified the Messiah (Matthew 27:25: “His blood be on us and our children”).

4. Typological argument: the cross is the “first day”

Jesus’ resurrection on the third day is the prototype for Israel’s national resurrection. If the cross is Day 1, the resurrection is Day 3, consistent with Hosea 6:2. This would make the two-day period Israel’s era of spiritual blindness between Messiah’s rejection and final restoration.

5. The theological emphasis

AD 70 = political, historical, national rupture

Crucifixion = spiritual, covenantal rupture.

 

[B-A-C]

The 70 AD Problem

There's a view held by some Christians - not the majority, but more common than you might think - that all biblical prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD when the Romans destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. This view is called preterism, and it's closely related to amillennialism - the belief that there is no future literal thousand-year reign of Christ.

According to this view, everything in Revelation and Matthew 24 already happened. The tribulation is past. The antichrist already came. Jesus already returned - spiritually. We're living in the kingdom now. There's nothing left to look forward to except death and eternity.

This ties into the previous chapter on New Jerusalem - if everything is "spiritual," then the kingdom is spiritual, Jesus' reign is spiritual, and the New Jerusalem is just a symbol. But as we'll see, the 70 AD view has some serious problems.

What DID Happen in 70 AD

Let's be clear: something significant DID happen in 70 AD. The Romans, under General Titus, besieged Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. This was devastating for the Jewish people. The temple - the center of their worship - was reduced to rubble. You can still see the ruins and the Western Wall today.

Jesus prophesied this destruction: "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (Matthew 24:2).

That prophecy was fulfilled. The temple was destroyed. I don't deny it.

But preterists go much further. They claim that EVERYTHING Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24 - and everything in Revelation - was fulfilled in 70 AD. That's where the problems begin.

The Nero Problem

Many preterists claim that Nero was the antichrist and that he committed the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel.

There's just one problem: Nero died in 68 AD.

The temple was destroyed in 70 AD - two years AFTER Nero was already dead. Nero never went to Jerusalem. Nero didn't destroy anything. Nero didn't stand in the holy place. He was dead.

Some preterists use Hebrew gematria to make "Nero Caesar" equal 666. But Revelation was written in Greek, to Greek-speaking churches. You have to transliterate to Hebrew AND use a variant spelling to make the math work. That's quite a stretch.

The Titus Problem

If not Nero, what about Titus? He's the one who actually destroyed the temple.

But Daniel's prophecy of the abomination of desolation has a specific timeline:

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days" (Daniel 12:11).

That's 1,290 days - roughly three and a half years. The abomination must STAND in the holy place for this period.

But the temple in 70 AD was destroyed within about 180 days - six months at most. You can't have an abomination standing in the holy place for 1,290 days if the building is rubble after 180 days.

The math doesn't work. Titus couldn't have fulfilled Daniel's prophecy because the temple wasn't there long enough.

The Man of Lawlessness

Paul describes the antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4:

"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

Did Titus sit in the temple claiming to be God? No. Did Titus exalt himself above all gods? No. Titus destroyed the temple - he didn't sit in it proclaiming himself deity. There was no temple left to sit in.

For Daniel's prophecy and Paul's prophecy to be fulfilled, you need a temple that stands for three and a half years while the man of lawlessness sits in it. That didn't happen in 70 AD.

What About Antiochus Epiphanes?

Some point to Antiochus Epiphanes, who desecrated the temple in 168-167 BC. He set up an altar to Zeus, sacrificed a pig on the altar, and forbade Jewish worship. This is well documented in Jewish history and the books of Maccabees.

That WAS an abomination of desolation - no dispute. But it happened about 200 years BEFORE Jesus spoke.

In Matthew 24:15, Jesus said: "Therefore when you SEE the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place..."

"When you SEE" - future tense. Jesus was pointing forward to something yet to come, not backward to Antiochus. Antiochus was a type, a foreshadowing. The ultimate fulfillment is still future.

The Gospel Problem

Jesus said: "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come" (Matthew 24:14).

Was the gospel preached to ALL nations by 70 AD?

The Americas hadn't been discovered. Australia hadn't been discovered. Most of Asia hadn't been reached. Paul was still writing letters trying to GET to places like Spain. The gospel hadn't even fully spread through the known Roman world yet.

"All the world" and "all nations" clearly wasn't accomplished by 70 AD.

The Tribulation Problem

Jesus said: "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matthew 24:21).

The worst tribulation EVER - past or future. Nothing will ever be worse.

Was 70 AD the worst tribulation in human history? Estimates suggest about one million Jews were killed. That's terrible. But consider:

World War II: 70-85 million dead.

The Holocaust alone: 6 million Jews murdered - there weren't even 6 million Jews in Jerusalem in 70 AD.

World War I, the Black Plague, the Mongol conquests - all killed more people than 70 AD.

If 70 AD was "the worst tribulation that ever will be," then World War II couldn't have happened. The Holocaust couldn't have happened. But they did.

Either Jesus was wrong (not an option), or 70 AD wasn't THE great tribulation.

The Second Coming Problem

This is the biggest problem of all.

"For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be... Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds" (Matthew 24:27, 30-31).

Did this happen in 70 AD?

Did lightning flash from east to west that everyone saw? Did the sign of the Son of Man appear in heaven? Did all tribes of the earth mourn? Did everyone SEE Jesus coming on clouds with power and great glory? Did angels gather the elect with a great trumpet sound?

Revelation 1:7 says: "Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him."

EVERY eye. Did every eye see Him in 70 AD? The people in China? Africa? The Americas? The whole world just missed the Second Coming?

Not one historian - Roman, Jewish, or Christian - wrote "Jesus came back today." If Jesus returned in 70 AD, somebody should have noticed.

The Rapture Problem

"Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and one left" (Matthew 24:40-41).

If this happened in 70 AD - where did the people go? Who was taken? Why didn't anyone notice their coworker disappeared? "Hey, I was grinding grain with Mary this morning and she just vanished!"

There are no records of mass disappearances in 70 AD. No Roman records. No Jewish records. No Christian records. The silence is deafening.

And here's the implication: if Jesus already came back and gathered His elect in 70 AD, then everyone waiting for the rapture now - you missed it. Sorry. The "blessed hope" was for first century believers only. Every Christian since 70 AD is too late.

That's not the gospel. The gospel includes a living hope that Jesus is coming back FOR US.

The Dating Problem

Preterists need Revelation to be written BEFORE 70 AD for their theory to work. If Revelation was written after 70 AD, then it can't be describing 70 AD as fulfilled prophecy.

The traditional dating of Revelation is 90-96 AD, during Domitian's reign. The early church father Irenaeus, writing around 180 AD, said John received the vision "toward the end of Domitian's reign." That's 20+ years after 70 AD.

Preterists argue for an earlier date because they have to. But even if you grant them early dating, the events still didn't happen as described.

And what about the early church fathers who wrote AFTER 70 AD? Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus - they all continued to write about the second coming as FUTURE. If Jesus already came back in 70 AD, why didn't THEY know about it? They were closer to the event than we are.

"This happened a hundred years ago and we missed it?" The early church kept looking forward. That tells you something.

The Millennium Problem

If we're living in the millennial reign of Christ right now, as amillennialists claim, consider what Scripture says about that reign:

Satan is bound for 1,000 years:

"He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:2).

Is Satan bound right now? Peter says "Your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour" (1 Peter 5:8). That doesn't sound bound. Does the world look like Satan is locked up and unable to deceive the nations?

Jesus rules with a rod of iron:

Four passages say Jesus will rule with a rod of iron: Psalm 2:9, Revelation 2:27, Revelation 12:5, and Revelation 19:15. A rod of iron BREAKS things. It SHATTERS like pottery. It doesn't tolerate opposition.

If Jesus is ruling with a rod of iron right now, why are there Hindu temples? Muslim mosques? Buddhist shrines? Satanic lodges? Atheist conventions? Open rebellion against God everywhere you look?

A rod of iron isn't fluffy and marshmallowy. When Jesus rules with a rod of iron, opposition will be crushed, not tolerated.

Jesus reigning from Jerusalem:

If Jesus is reigning on earth right now - where is He? I want to go see Him. What's the address? Can I book a flight?

The "spiritual" escape hatch won't work. If you have to spiritualize everything to make your theory fit, maybe your theory is wrong.

Conclusion

Did something happen in 70 AD? Yes - the temple was destroyed, just as Jesus prophesied.

Did EVERYTHING happen in 70 AD? No. The math doesn't work. The history doesn't work. The prophecies weren't fulfilled.

Nero was dead before 70 AD. The temple didn't stand long enough for Daniel's timeline. The gospel hadn't reached all nations. 70 AD wasn't the worst tribulation ever. Jesus didn't visibly return. No one was taken. The early church fathers kept looking forward.

Satan isn't bound. Jesus isn't ruling with a rod of iron. Other religions flourish. The world doesn't look like we're in the millennium.

The preterist/amillennialist view requires spiritualizing everything that didn't literally happen. But at some point, if nothing means what it says, why did God bother saying it?

The second coming of Christ is still future. The tribulation is still future. The millennium is still future. The gathering of the elect is still future.

We have a blessed hope - that Jesus is coming back, for us, visibly, and every eye will see Him.

Be a Berean. Don't let anyone take that hope from you.

 

[Bill]

Better just to live a Christian Life and not worry about the future