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Stop Sugarcoating The Bible

Coconut

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
4,663
I posted this a few days ago, but it seems to have disappeared. This message was a great encouragement to me, may it be to you.

My Take: Stop sugarcoating the Bible

By Steven James, Special to CNN

(CNN) – The Bible is a gritty book. Very raw. Very real. It deals with people just like us, just as needy and screwed up as we are, encountering a God who would rather die than spend eternity without them.

Yet despite that, it seems like Christians are uncomfortable with how earthy the Bible really is. They feel the need to tidy up God.

For example, look in any modern translation of Isaiah 64:6, and you’ll find that, to a holy God, even our most righteous acts are like “filthy rags.” The original language doesn’t say “filthy rags”; it says “menstrual rags.” But that sounds a little too crass, so let’s just call them filthy instead.

And let’s not talk so much about Jesus being naked on the cross, and let’s pretend Paul said that he considered his good deeds “a pile of garbage” in Philippians 3:8 rather than a pile of crap, as the Greek would more accurately be translated.

And let’s definitely not mention the six times in the Old Testament that the Jewish writers referred to Gentile men as those who “pisseth against the wall.” (At least the King James Version got that one right.)


The point?

God’s message was not meant to be run through some arbitrary, holier-than-thou politeness filter. He intended the Bible to speak to people where they’re at, caught up in the stark reality of life on a fractured planet.

Dozens of Psalms are complaints and heart-wrenching cries of despair to God, not holy-sounding, reverently worded soliloquies. Take Psalm 77:1-3: “I cry out to God; yes, I shout. Oh, that God would listen to me! When I was in deep trouble, I searched for the Lord. All night long I prayed, with hands lifted toward heaven, but my soul was not comforted. I think of God, and I moan, overwhelmed with longing for his help” (New Living Translation).

And rather than shy away from difficult and painful topics, the Old Testament includes vivid descriptions of murder, cannibalism, witchcraft, dismemberment, torture, rape, idolatry, erotic sex and animal sacrifice. According to St. Paul, those stories were written as examples and warnings for us (1 Corinthians 10:11). So obviously they were meant to be retold without editing out all the things we don’t consider nice or agreeable.



I believe that Scripture includes such graphic material to show how far we, as a race, have fallen and how far God was willing to come to rescue us from ourselves.

God is much more interested in honesty than pietism.

And that’s what he gives us throughout Scripture, telling the stories of people who struggled with the same issues, questions and temptations we face today.

Peter struggled with doubt, and we hear all about it.

Elijah dealt with depression; Naomi raged with bitterness against God; Hannah struggled for years under the burden of her unanswered prayers.

David had an affair and then arranged to have his lover’s husband killed. Noah was a drunk, Abraham a liar, Moses a murderer. Job came to a place where he found it necessary to make a covenant with his eyes not to lust after young girls (Job 31:1).

It’s easy to make “Bible heroes” (as Protestants might say) or “saints” (as Catholics might refer to them) out to be bigger than life, immune from the temptations that everyone faces.

I find it encouraging that Jesus never came across as pietistic. In fact, he was never accused of being too religious; instead he partied so much that he was accused of being a drunkard and a glutton (Matthew 11:19).

Jesus never said, “The Kingdom of God is like a church service that goes on and on forever and never ends.” He said the kingdom was like a homecoming celebration, a wedding, a party, a feast to which all are invited.

This idea was too radical for the religious leaders of his day. They were more concerned about etiquette, manners, traditions and religious rituals than about partying with Jesus. And that’s why they missed out.

That’s why we miss out.

According to Jesus, the truly spiritual life is one marked by freedom rather than compulsion (John 8:36), love rather than ritual (Mark 12:30-33) and peace rather than guilt (John 14:27). Jesus saves us from the dry, dusty duties of religion and frees us to cut loose and celebrate.

I don’t believe we’ll ever recognize our need for the light until we’ve seen the depth of the darkness. So God wasn’t afraid to get down and dirty with us about life and temptation and forgiveness. And grace.

Only when the Bible seems relevant to us (which it is), only when the characters seem real to us (which they were), only then will the message of redemption become personal for us (which it was always meant to be).

We don’t need to edit God. We need to let him be the author of our new lives.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Steven James.

(and mine)
 
Hello Coconut.

Powerful thread coconut.

The Scripture combined with the Holy Spirit reveals all about mankind.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these
are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,

20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,

21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Scripture does not pull punches, the scripture deals with the fatal condition mankind
has directly, the sinful nature. It also displays God's powerful reconciliation of mankind
to God only through Jesus Christ.

I love your threads coconut, thanks.
 
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And let’s definitely not mention the six times in the Old Testament that the Jewish writers referred to Gentile men as those who “pisseth against the wall.”

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Steven James.

(and mine)

In 1 Sam 25 (KJV) this phrase is used in reference to Nabal's workers. Do these demeaning words indicate God's attitude toward those men, or is it merely a recording of the young, fiery warrior David's attitude?

SLE
 
In 1 Sam 25 (KJV) this phrase is used in reference to Nabal's workers. Do these demeaning words indicate God's attitude toward those men, or is it merely a recording of the young, fiery warrior David's attitude?

SLE

Maybe the simple 'demeaning' is David needed no demoting.

I would`nt expect a man who spent the greater part of his early life alone in the fields, conversing with dumb sheep, to sound like he was raised by King James` wise men. :wink:
 
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Oh wow! I am printing this bad boy up!

For so long I have been telling this to people
who are close friends and church members.
A couple times I asked a question at youth group
that went something like this:

"How come David had so many wives? Did God approve
of that?"

or

"Why was I born into the dysfunctional family I have
if God knows my entire future?"

Upon asking these questions they said they would
get back with me with the answer. They never did.
I have since left youth group, and its that rare time
when I am glad I left. By studying with a strong Christian
Zechariah, I have learned so much more than I would
have in youth group. Sometimes answering my questions
takes a long time, but I am willing to get down and
dirty and answer the questions no one else will talk about.
 
Oh wow! I am printing this bad boy up!

That made me grin

One of the biggest baddest masks in the kingdom is the one we put on, that makes us unable to look people square in the eye and say "I don`t know the answer to that"

Repeat after me...

Pride has many faces, God hates them all.
 
I don't know.

We just had this discussion at home.

I have practiced through the years to be Holy Spirit led, and to hear from God on a matter.

In the Word of faith camp (Blab it and grab it prosperity) There are things we just don't know. I hate pat answers, and I you hear it from the pulpit all the time.

We don't know a lot of things!!!!

Why did my child die?

"The Lord in his wisdom saw evil down the road, and in his love took your child early. We don't always understand God's purpose, but we can rest in the fact he knows best."

"God needed an little angel on his worship team in heaven."

Hogwash!!!

God is not in the business of child murder, and the thief came to kill, and had a entrance somewhere to do so.

We can look at all kinds of natural things and match scriptures up.

You lived with someone, and were not married, so your child died because you were in sin.

You did not go to church faithfully.

The list goes on...........

I personally have to hear from the Holy Spirit, or the answer will always be. I don't know. Nobody knows why the Child died unless God reveals all that led up to it.

Its the same when others ask me if that is sin, or that is sin.
I am not the judge, and why do you have to ask if it's OK?

I am more interested in their heart, than I am with what their flesh is doing, or allowing.


We need to walk by the Spirit, and stay connected to our father at all times, in that we can live life as we ought. We can then avoid the complication the rest of the World suffers.

Our Lord came to give us LIFE!!!!! Not chains, and confusion.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
There are those who say....
It doesn't matter if you are a believing Christian or not, Jesus died to save EVERYONE.
Then there are those who say, as long as you are a believing Christian it doesn't matter how you live, you're saved. His grace his sufficient.
Then there are those who say we should immediately repent of every sin, and try at all costsnot to sin again.
Finally you have the moderates, (I fall into this category) who say yes there is grace, but we shouldn't keep sinning to take advantage of it.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I to you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Which brings us to the point of "willful sin". What is "willful sin"?

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,

We all sin after we become believers. The difference is, we no longer WANT to sin. (Oh, sometimes we do want to sin in a moment of weakness) but we don't want sin to rule us, we don't want it to be our lifestyle. Before we were saved, we didn't care. Even Paul said....

Romans 7:15 I don't realize what I'm doing. I don't do what I want to do. Instead, I do what I hate. 16 I don't do what I want to do, but I agree that God's standards are good. 17 So I am no longer the one who is doing the things I hate, but sin that lives in me is doing them.

He knew that he kept on sinning, but he didn't do so willingly. There are some who say, the fact that we keep on sinning means satan is ruling in our lives, I disagree. The fact that we no longer want to sin means Christ is ruling in our lives.

I agree coconut, many pastors today are telling the people what they WANT to hear, rather than what they NEED to hear.
 
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Man bloats the simple message of Christ to create something artificial.
But Jesus gives us life by His words....

something to think about. God's word has effect..... the effect does not come from us.

that's why God's word it self is good and not the practical aproaches by which we may even try to fit in to God's mold.

but in reality God's word is all we need.
 
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Sometimes man bloats it.. true.
Sometimes man over-simplfies it also.

i.e. - God is Love.
well, this is true, but it isn't the end of the story. That isn't all God is, and only knowing this won't save you.

You are right though, we need God's Word, and not adding or taking away anything from it. This needs to be taken much more seriously than it often is...

Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
 
If you arent changed buy the word than someone dropped the ball ....MAD ,GLAD OR SAD ..the word should promte change somehow in your life ..if youre toes are stepped on by the preaching of the word than find an old time alter and get healed ..The word of the Lord should be applied for reproof and correction to our lives ..and it never comes back void but produces the result God intended..DONT WATER DOWN THE WORD !! ....what if God watered down the cross..? we would be lost without hope of salvation.....IMHO....Rev
 
All scripture for reproof.

All Scripture is for reproof and doctrine. I don't pick and choose.

If he said tithe, and the windows will be open so there is not enough room to receive. He was talking to me!!

If ye said no weapon formed against you shall prosper, and nothing by any means shall hurt you. That includes Nukes, and he was talking to me.

If he said I will perfect all the things I am concerned about. He was talking to me.

If he said I have what I say, and my death, or my life is in the power of my tongue, I don't speak death, or even say I almost died laughing, I believe it, he was talking to me.

If he said He will supply all my need, then bill after bill can be stacked up with no thought or worry. He was talking to me.

If he said that I should obey and serve him, I will spend my years in prosperity, then he was talking to me.

If he said wealth and riches shall be in my house, I believe that, he was talking to me.

If he said all things are possible to them that believe, and by his stripes I am healed, then no sickness, or disease can stay on me. He was talking to me.

If he said love God with mind, soul and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself, and speak only words that edify being a perfect man not offending in word or deed. Then He was talking to me, and by the word I will put myself into subjection.


The Word should change how you look at this World, it should change how you look at bad things. It brings peace, with no fear of anything.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
All Scripture is for reproof and doctrine. I don't pick and choose.

If he said tithe, and the windows will be open so there is not enough room to receive. He was talking to me!!

I totally agree about the 'picking and choosing' Mike...but neither should we use a pickaxe to unearth the laws of the old covenant and drag them into the new. Tithing is old covenant. Don`t attempt to build a road where God put a dead end sign.
 
Thank you Coconut:

Thank you sister!!! Jiggyfly and I have thread after thread from a few years back on the tithing war. He feels the same way.

I eat pig, I don't keep any sabbath day, but every day is me and the Lord. What I see is a God that never changed, and his Word written to man.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

That love commandment which the whole law rest in my view never said theft was OK. Jesus said that you should do the other different and keep the tithing the same. I consider Jesus to be the Head of the Church, and my Lord.

I look at the Word simple like that. I see the love of money being the root of all evil. Money is the big test.

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

The condition for those windows being open is to bring the tithe in. It puts God first, it puts his kingdom first. I do that before any other bill or need is looked at.

If someone says they can't afford to tithe, and putting their needs before the Lord, then that is wrong motive and wrong heart toward God.

If someone says they just don't see tithing as part of the New covenant, and it's not attached to Money, but what they honestly see, not making excuses for not putting God first in everything. Then I am Ok with that if they are being honest.

Whatever the case, you should be doing something, bringing something to the Lord and it better not be based on what you can "Afford" to give. God should never get the last of things, or the leftovers.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
Why did Jesus teach contrary to that?

the pharisees did tithe a lot. but there was some more important things they had left undone.

Mat 23:23-24
(23) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
(24) Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

there's certainly some priority God wants us to do.

also seeking God's kingdom it self was promise for provision.....



Luk 12:31
(31) But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

.
 
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Jiggyfly and I have thread after thread from a few years back on the tithing war. He feels the same way.

Oh I`m well aware...and I would`nt touch that debate with a ten foot pole...or two tablets...or a pickaxe...or whatever tool it is men build bridges with ...

He changed if I like pig, changed not if I like tithing , changed if I like....well which is it?
I`m reminded of the little daisy ditty while picking its stems "he loves me, he loves me not"

You could`nt keep the tithing law if you wanted to...the Levitical priesthood they were commanded to give their tithe to no longer exists.

But there you go just a buildin a bridge...go for it...just don`t expect any new covenant billy goats ...or donkeys like me to tromp over it...or to pay toll ...er tithe fee`s
 
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right.

I don't look at tithing as part of the Law. I look at it as putting God first. The 10% may seem Law like, but for me it's a good start. We tithe and give above that anyway in what we do for others or more money toward the gospel.

With all that God has done for us, and I can give lots of testimony of God delivering me out of my dumb things, I believe it's my part to be faithful not to steal.

Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

The whole nation was not the priest Hood. Everyone that says they are a Christian ought to be putting God first with their money. It's what we seem to value, and hold on to the most. Even those that claim they don't love money, complain they don't always have enough of it to meet their needs. That is being focused on the value of money, no other way to look at it.

I have never heard a wealthy Christian complain about tithing, not saying there are not any, but I always hear the objection from those that barley get by each month, and that says something about their heart condition toward God.

Tithe or not tithe, God should come first. Tithing is a good target to see where your heart is really at, your things first, your bills, your food, your children first, or God first.

There can not be 2 first places in your life concerning money. (When you get money, is your needs your first thoughts?)

Hag 1:4 Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses while this house [of the Lord] lies in ruins?
Hag 1:5 Now therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: Consider your ways and set your mind on what has come to you.
Hag 1:6 You have sown much, but you have reaped little; you eat, but you do not have enough; you drink, but you do not have your fill; you clothe yourselves, but no one is warm; and he who earns wages has earned them to put them in a bag with holes in it.


Jesus Is Lord.
 
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Everyone that says they are a Christian ought to be putting God first with their money.

i don't like this statement..... Jesus said judgment, mercy, and faith comes first.
so maybe after those the money things.
and if you do those i doupt strongly that God curses you if you leave tithing.
 
Not what I said.

That is not what I said Jari. Mercy, judgement, tithing, all in the same category. If there is no more tithing, then we don't have to bother having mercy, or judgement.

My statement was not about paying 10% off the top of your money coming in though.

What I said is.....

Everyone that says they are a Christian ought to be putting God first with their money.

So, that is not about tithing, that is to everyone if they believe in tithing or not.

When we get a check, or someone hands us money, is God first in our thoughts, kingdom needs in our thoughts, getting the Word preached in our thoughts??

It takes money to get the word of God out, it takes money to even run this Web site.

(When you get money, is your needs your first thoughts?)

If God and what is needed for the Kingdom is not the first thought, then your money is coming before God, it's more important to you than God.

That is what I said. Tithing or not. You can be legalistic about tithing, and not even Give God a thought, God get's his cut, and that is it. It's like paying the mob protection money, and that is also coming from a wrong heart.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
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