Loyal
Yes, was just clarifying what I meant to anyone that didnt know why I said what I did.
Should Christians own guns?
Member
I wish that was true.
Rather, we experience the conflict of two natures (Romans 7:14-19).
For instance, Paul said, For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. (v. 18-19).
Yes, demons can "control" a believer, both from without and from within. Our walk is about getting set free; about confessing, repenting, and coming into obedience, allowing us to fully appropriate the Lord's authority in waging the clearly enunciated battle. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: [the Lord has] come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly (John 10:10).
I want the abundant life. This is spiritual warfare.
I have several New Age acquaintances, unbelievers who boast about the number of "spirit guides" they have. In Satan's camp, the taunt among his followers is, "I got more demons than you do!" These deluded people, hooked on the purported power, and dominion, and wealth offered by the demons, are hellbound poste haste. Because the Holy Spirit does not reside in these people, they have ZERO discernment. In their ignorance, they are WEAPONLESS and DEFENSELESS - utterly unable to try the spirits (as God commands us in 1 John 4:1). They are like weeds in the wind...
Loyal
The Holy Spirit is stronger than any demon spirit and will not share a home with one... because its the HOLY Spirit. You are probably thinking of how evil spirits can still whisper their lies to believers, trying to shake their faith. But the evil spirits cannot "take over" control of humans motor functions if the Holy Spirit resides within that person.
Member
Sorry, Brad, but that's incorrect. There are many examples in scripture. I'll give you one dramatic example: the Gadarene demoniac. With his demonically assisted supernatural strength, he continually broke his fetters and chains and cut himself with stones i.e. 'the evil spirit took control of his motor functions.'
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him (Mark 5:6). IOW, the guy was a believer.
In my [and your] flesh dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18).
And another simple example: Paul had a thorn in his flesh, given to him by one of Satan's boys i.e. a demon.
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. (2 Cor. 12:7).
The "possession vs. obsession" argument (ala "Is the demon IN my flesh, or just ON or near the surface of my skin?") often heard is a red herring. I am renting a place, i.e. I am in possession of that unit, but I do NOT own it. Same with demonic indwelling re: a believer's flesh. The word actually means a beachhead set up within enemy territory i.e. the believer is the enemy, and a beachhead is what the demon sets up in the believer's flesh. It is a stronghold. The unclean spirit(s) does not OWN the believer, but the believer is oppressed by the unclean spirit.
Finally, I have been a believer since 1996; several demons have since been cast from me, and there are others yet to experience the same fate.
The list of maladies inflicted by demons on the flesh of believers and nonbelievers alike is endless.
Loyal
Bowing down to Jesus is not worshiping Jesus. Even satan himself will one day bow down and submit to him, not the same thing. In your world, demons are stronger than the Holy Spirit? That would be a messed up world if true, but its not. You simply dont understand the nature of the spirit world. It would be possible that the man possessed by demons realized that Jesus could save him from the spirit inhabiting him, and pleaded for Jesus to help him, and He did, he could have his house cleaned and put in order, and when the Holy Spirit comes inside him, the Holy Spirit will be the Strong man, that can keep out unwanted intruders that think they can come back in and take control again with 7 more evil spirits more powerful than himself.
Active
I have the Holy Spirit in me, and the Lord protects me.
Psalm 5:11-12 - 11 But make everyone rejoice who puts his trust in you. Keep them shouting for joy because you are defending them. Fill all who love you with your happiness. 12 For you bless the godly man, O Lord; you protect him with your shield of love.
Psalm 5:11-12 - 11 But make everyone rejoice who puts his trust in you. Keep them shouting for joy because you are defending them. Fill all who love you with your happiness. 12 For you bless the godly man, O Lord; you protect him with your shield of love.
Member
Again, scripture says: But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him (Mark 5:6). Various copyrighted "versions" of the truth, owned by men who expect royaltie$, have altered the true word i.e. "worshipped" to something else, and such has deceived you.
Again, the word is "worshipped" and its usage throughout scripture is consistent and it means exactly that i.e. worshipped.
No offense intended, but like the majority, you are ignorant of satan's devices (2 Cor. 2:11), of the mechanics of spiritual warfare and, worse, of what actions are commanded on the believer's part to successfully engage in spiritual warfare. God allows us to experience the consequences of our choices, including those to our detriment.
Man, you've been ripped off, again by another "version" of the truth:
Here's the real deal:
But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee. For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield.
So, the Holy Spirit may be in you, but you are required to DO something, as well i.e. put your TRUST in the Lord ( not in the Caesar's of the world). Also, the Lord blesses the RIGHTEOUS (those who actually DO the RIGHT thing(s) by God and not by Caesar). Only those who TRUST and are RIGHTEOUS will be FAVOURED and SHIELDED.
1) One needs the Holy Spirit, else all is lost as one is powerless and utterly vulnerable.
2) Having the Holy Spirit in one, is no guarantee of survival from the enemy's attacks. Rather, pick up the sword i.e. the sword of the Spirit. i.e. the word of God (which most are too lazy to do) and then DO what it says to do i.e. confess, repent, forgive, and come into God's full authority (and not as politically correct wimps) i.e. APPROPRIATE THE ARMOR.
3) The world is full of weak believers who are getting whacked left and right by the enemy, who have no joy, and no one has shown them how to gain victories over the enemy's 24/7-365 attacks.
Loyal
6 Seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him; 7 and shouting with a loud voice, he *said, “What business do You have with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!”
This is what it says in NASB, never the less, in KJV it does say worship. It doesnt matter, the demon's worship is not the same as the worship of a believer. Do you take the word of a demon or actions of a demon of being true and right? Just the opposite, he knew the power Jesus had and bowed and gave him praise only in the hope of Jesus having mercy on him so he could continue in his earthly pursuit inside the man. He did not have the Holy Spirit inside him, your belief is an abomination.
Member
Again, the Holy Bible tells us otherwise. Demons certainly may acknowledge God, but demons won't and can't worship God, period.
The word worship appears 60 times in the KJB. View all 60 appearances for yourself by clicking here--> Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
worship = proskyneō (Strong's Concordance [HASH=5525]#G4352[/HASH]):
1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
i. to the Jewish high priests
ii. to God
iii. to Christ
iv. to heavenly beings
v. to demons
So, the definition of worship can be summed thusly: to profoundly revere, do homage, make obeisance, express respect, make supplication.
FYI, here are the 11 verses where unbelievers worship only their god:
Acts 7:43
Rev 9:20
Rev. 13:4, 8, 12, 15
Rev. 14:9, 11
Rev. 16:2
Rev. 19:20
Rev. 20:4
The remaining 49 verses are where believers worship only their God.
Bottom line: A believer's act of worship and an unbeliever's act of worship are EXACTLY the same; the definition of worship is identical in both situations. The guy in Mark 5:6 was a believer and he was worshipping his God, regardless of the fact he was in bondage to a number of demons - just like the majority of believers today.
(First, the guy ran to Jesus and worshipped Jesus. Second, the demon in the guy was then made manifest by Jesus' presence and so began to speak through the guy. I have witnessed the manifestation of demons in believers on whom I was doing deliverance. Sometimes, the mere mention of the name of Jesus will bring the demon out of the believer.)
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Loyal
You are a strange man, you begin saying he was worshipping Jesus, and now you say the demon wasnt, but that it was the man. My disagreement was that the demon didnt worship Jesus, and you seem to be playing word games. Play games with someone else, I dont consider such games to glorify God.
Member
Your post with my comments: "You are a strange man (It is demons who do seem strange to the majority, to those who have not learned or been taught how to engage in spiritual warfare), you begin saying he was worshipping Jesus (Yes, the man did; he ran to Jesus, just as scripture states), and now you say the demon wasnt, but that it was the man (Again, demons BY DEFINITION don't worship the living God. Read your Bible!). My disagreement was that the demon didnt worship Jesus, and you seem to be playing word games (The "chief" demon, who represented a legion of demons, clearly MANIFESTED in the presence of Jesus, so obviously -- just like when I invoke the name of Jesus in front of a believer who likewise is possessed of a demon.). Play games with someone else, I dont consider such games to glorify God" (Don't we all wish it would just go away so we don't have to actually DO what Jesus told his people to DO e.g. read his word, repent, forgive, come into obedience, cast out demons, etc. etc. Ignorance is bliss but for only for a season...Attempting to sully my character will not change the revealed truth. Your failure to post any scripture in support of your opinions tells the tale.).
Please don't give up. The Lord has ordained you to walk in his authority, and not in the authority of ourselves. Take this to him and he will guide you.
Please don't give up. The Lord has ordained you to walk in his authority, and not in the authority of ourselves. Take this to him and he will guide you.
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Active
Demons will not worship God but even if the man is possessed, he is still there...Even possessed he CAN choose to override the will of his demons and worship..
Member
Firstly, I will assume your use of the word "possession" in this instance implies "complete control over," rather than a common stronghold (i.e. completely demonized vs. possessed).
Secondly, there will come a point at which the man will not be able to "override the will of his demons":
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient...(Rom. 1:28)
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man...(Gen. 6:3)
Some additional thoughts: The presence of Jesus forced the demon to manifest, so the man then would have been at a greater liberty to think more clearly, as the demon's grip was momentarily weakened. I find this occurs often, when doing deliverance. In fact, I may need to bind the strongman/demon first, before the man is even able to begin participating in what the demon knows is soon to be its expulsion.
Active
Secondly, there will come a point at which the man will not be able to override the demon(s):....But God......
Active
Per individual, yes.
Evil on such a level can only be stopped by another good person with adequate means (guns, tazers, flamerthrowers, etc.)
Realistically and factually, non-violent methods to stop someone is uncommon. Criminals are smart and don't care about laws. God commands us to protect and preserve life and not doing anything causes more harm than good.
Would your spouse, lover, or kids really be ok with you not doing anything as some evil person comes in and kills them? I don't think so.
God gave his angels weapons and armor b/c he knows you don't fight such things with "tolerance, understanding, and feelings".
Evil on such a level can only be stopped by another good person with adequate means (guns, tazers, flamerthrowers, etc.)
Realistically and factually, non-violent methods to stop someone is uncommon. Criminals are smart and don't care about laws. God commands us to protect and preserve life and not doing anything causes more harm than good.
Would your spouse, lover, or kids really be ok with you not doing anything as some evil person comes in and kills them? I don't think so.
God gave his angels weapons and armor b/c he knows you don't fight such things with "tolerance, understanding, and feelings".
Loyal
Some criminals are smart about many things, they just arent wise.
Active
Romans 14:23 rules: If YOU can't do it in FAITH, then it's SIN for YOU. You obviously can't have a gun in faith.
If you CAN do it in Faith, then for YOU it's fine. Different people are convicted about different things. I wouldn't have a second though about having a gun, but since I have no interest in guns, I don't have one.
BUT - DON'T feel that you have to force YOUR CONVICTION on anybody else (who art thou that judgest another man's servant Rom 14:4)
You're not "wrong", if you're following your faith. If God reveals something else to you, then follow that.
Active
Why should you be concerned over the person who made those choices vs the victims?
That' makes no sense.
If no one or few side with the victims the body count increases. As all have free will they made that choice to use a tool the wrong way. Most developed countries have laws against, IDK, attempted murder.
It is only the good guy/gal with a gun that saves those without it.
I've seen attempts of child kidnapping in daylight in front of people. They don't care. Thankfully a woman pulled her own handgun and eliminated the threat.
Active
Guns are like any tool.
Mine sits in a hidden place most of the time and has yet to get up by itself and hurt/kill someone.
Handguns are most effective at about 50ft.
Rifles are for longer distances and ultimately you want to be farther away from a hostile target.
IDK who all is in your family or friends but should you find yourself in one, being defenseless means they will be targets of evil people.
At my last church the woman who was in charge of the good bank I volunteered at, was getting fuel. Some guy came around to her car and her instincts paid off. She pulled but didn't fire and instead of going to a car like he was asking for help he ran away from the gas station.
I saw another video where 3 black guys jumped a white guy filling his tank. They had knives and he was unarmed. They got his car with a full tank.
Do you, but as you see this world, better to make friends with people who carry.