Rethinking the tithe

[rizen1]

I think we had a great chat, no heads was chopped off .

I learned alot from this thread, thanks to brother Jiggyfly, blademan and brother mike..who kept this topic going.
And much love to the by standers and passer by, that left comments.

Peace be with you, and all of you.

The new Testament Christian should consider God and his work and give freely with a cheerful heart. They are by no means put in bondage to a certain percent, but worship the Lord with the means they have.
They may also give a tenth of all their money if they choose and are in no bondage to do so.They do it out of love for God.

Jesus Is Lord.

Now who wants coffee..

 

[Blademan]

Conclusion:

1) Tithing as given by the law is part of the old covenant that is clearly done away with. Nobody could keep the laws of God under flesh and it was not working well. So a better Covenant with better promises was given to us in Christ Jesus.

Well, I don't speak for anyone else, but I don't believe all the Law is irrelevant. The moral foundation of God's Law never passed with the coming of Christ. He actually built upon it.

Tithing a tenth of any monies was NEVER mentioned as being part of our new Covenant.

Tithing money was never mentioned anywhere in scripture.

Jesus referred to it once with the pharisees, but money was never mentioned and the world was still under the Old law at the time. Jesus had to do his whole ministry under that Old Covenant.

I'm not sure about the idea that Jesus HAD to do His ministry under the Law. It's under the Law, and within the establishment of the New Covenant the Father chose to insert His only begotten Son. The Father's plan was perfect, and has worked perfectly ever since.

To say a Christian is under some law to give a tenth of their income is not scriptural. Not only can this cause quilt, but can also be an attempt to put a Christian under bondage that the Lord had delivered us from. Paul warned the Galatians about this, asking them who has bewitched you when starting up old Law practice.

We must remember that the tithe was tied directly to the Temple and the Levitical priesthood. The veil was rent from top to botton, revealing the inner sactuary, which was at one time the dwelling place of the Lord on this earth, even though the earth is His footstool. The priesthood was perfected in Christ Jesus.

The new Testament Christian should consider God and his work and give freely with a cheerful heart. They are by no means put in bondage to a certain percent, but worship the Lord with the means they have.

The Lord is no beggar, and thus in no need of money to accomplish His ends. WE are the ones who use money to purchase what we need for survival.

Man-made church organizations are the ones that talk much about money, and allegedly sowing it into its own ministry (which is a topic that I think needs to be addressed for what it really is). Money-grubbing TV and radio personalities talk much about money, a large percentage of which goes to support their lavish lifestyles, personal jets, flights on the Concord, $18,000 per night presidential suites in France, Roles Royces, Mercedes Benzes, and all the other luxuries this world has to offer, and yes the word of God says:

Phil 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

This wasn't addressed to the wealthy who have their reward here on earth.

God has the entire wealth of this world at His command, so He's no beggar to lay upon His people, by way of false teaching, a command that He never, at any time, laid upon those who were under the Law. The emotionally charged appeals that believers need to sow seeds of money in physical buildings and filling the coffers of religious zeal, as opppsed to spiritual seeds of growth, maturity and blessing for the needy and those true workers of the Gospel, it all diverts attention away from the spirit of God and His priorities.

When I give of the primary portion of my giving to help the man and family down the street who lost his job due to layoff, THAT is giving to the Lord.
When I give of the primary portion of my giving to support the foreign missionary who ministers Christ to the lost, THAT is giving to the Lord.
When I give of the primary portion of my giving to meet the needs of those who provide food to the needy in my community, THAT is giving to the Lord.
When I give of the primary portion of my giving to support a building from which I personally reap benefit, THAT is NOT giving to the Lord.

That building will perish with this earth. I can support it secondarily to the most basic of priorities in my giving IF there is anything left that I can give.

When we stand before the Lord, there will be NO legitimate excuses for ANY of us having our priorities backwards when it comes to our responsibility toward one another, and those in our respective communities. Our church buildings are NOT a primary necessity for providing sustenance to our fellow believers and those in our communities. NO amount of mental jirations will ever justify our giving of the primary portion of our giving in support of brick, wood and mortar, except it be the homes of those in need.

I state these things as a counter to all the emotional bullying we've all experienced at the hands of false teachers, no matter how soothing, nice and flowery it may have sounded when uttered. When we hear that we MUST support, with a full tenth of our wages, a building and its operations from which we ourselves reap direct benefit, and that doing so is allegedly giving to the Lord, remember that such reversals of the TRUTH can be clearly seen if only one applies the most basic of critical thought.

"Does ALL of this, my primary giving, genuinely meet needs above all else?
"Does ALL of this, my primary giving, help to put a new roof on the poor widow's home down the street, or across town?"
"Does ALL of this, my primary giving, help to provide warm clothing and coats to poor families facing an on-coming winter?"

We tend to be so good at justifying the support, from our primary giving, those things from which we ourselves benefit. We've been doing this for so long that we give not one critical thought to any of it. We support, without one critical thought, a new building project to add new "wings" to our buildings for gymnasiums, or more Sunday School classrooms. After all, then we can play "basketball for Jesus." "Swim for Jesus." "We need more Sunday School classrooms so that we can paste cotton for bunny tails for Jesus."

We have such a chronic habit of thoughtlessness in HOW we give, that we no longer give a critical thought as to WHERE we give, and what portion goes where. We habitually hand the primary portion over, with blind indifference, to organizations that justify all manner of using the lion's share of our giving for things that provide no real sustenance or substance in an address of genuine needs, and we actually fool ourselves into thinking that we've done good! We actually feel spiritual in all this, thinking that we're pleasing the Lord in it all!

They may also give a tenth of all their money if they choose and are in no bondage to do so.They do it out of love for God.

I'd rather give something of far greater substance because of my love for God, such as obedience. Money is such a lowly thing compared to those things the Lord TRULY desires of His people.

Ps 40:6-11
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
11 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.

 

[Blademan]

It's the way we interpret. I read the word of God very literal. I gave Scriptures that Abraham Tithed ALL. (No law yet I know, he walked by faith.)

Abraham tithed from porperty that was stolen BY someone else, FROM someone else. Abraham gave not one plug nickle from His own massive wealth, which was nowhere in the vicinity of Melchizedek and that situation.

Do you get the ramifications of what I'm saying here? Abraham returned to Sodom for the express purpose of returning the spoils to its rightful owners, and yet people continue to prop this all up as something any of us could possibly hope to mimmick. The text is so clear.

It's Abraham's FAITH that stood in the limelight, not that tenth. His giving of that tenth was an expression of thanksgiving for the victory.

In Hebrews 7, it was Melchizedek who stood center stage, not the tenth itself. That tenth was mentioned ONLY as a measure of the greatness of that priest. And yet, we almost always hear only about the tenth, not the focus of that text. We hear men pulling out from the text whatever benefits their mundane, worldly message of MONEY, thus they turn a blind eye of indifference to being honest with the genuine thrust of what was being said in those passages.

Cain and able tithed.

Here we go again. :rtm: Can you show me in that text where anything was said about a tenth in regard to Abel and Cain's OFFERINGS? These manipulative alterations to the text are a glaring error in your handling of the word of God.

Jacob told God if God would take care of him he would give the tenth. (Sort of a scratch my back and I scratch your back thing.)

Are you kidding me? Surely you jest. Do you actually think that what Jacob did is an example to us today?

Let's poll everyone else here:

How many of you give with strings attahed?

How many of you give to meet the needs of others AFTER saying to the Lord, "Lord, I'll give to that ministry that meets genuine needs IF you will see to it that I get to my home safely while passing through the midst of the enemies I made myself because of my being such a scoundrel, and IF you will give me the raiment I want..."?

If you had an hour or so you should read everything I have written. I never changed the Word.

Oh, but you most certainly DID change the Word. I quoted it right here in this post. Not one word is said in the text that Abel and Cain gave a tenth, but you certainly added it in.

Every place I used the Word it says what it says.

Wrong. You have mishandled the Word. It's my hope that you'll take this to heart and stop adding to the word of God what simply isn't there. I used to do this myself...when it was convenient to try and prove my point. The Lord dealt with me about this, and continues to correct me to this day. I desire to speak ONLY what is written, and thus dealing HONESTLY with the word of God.

I hope everyone here finds a sobering message in all this. This can serve as an example of how NOT to mishandle God's word to our own ends, which includes myself.

Go re-read what I have written to keep this post smaller please.

Yes, go and re-read, and let it serve as a warning to us ALL that any mishandling of God's word is grievous. It is the sin of presumption for any of us to think that we can so easily cast about false additions or subtractions, and get away with it. We must hold one another's feet to the fire if we ever find ourselves making such compromises in our dealings with the word of God.

Love to all.

 

[Brother Mike]

Blademan

Praise God Blademan. You have a right to sum up your conclusion. You picked at mine some but that is just what I got out of it. I don't even agree with what I wrote, but in the fairness of the discussion, I had to be honest.

So go and write your (More Correct.) conclusion Brother. Most everyone agreed that we are not under the Law and should give with a cheerful heart, not being forced or made to feel guilty if we don't give a 10th of all we make.

Of course with all that scripture you fired at us and the strange angles you came at us with, I will be pretty perplexed If I find out you are a faithful tither.

Jesus Is Lord!!!

 

[Blademan]

Of course with all that scripture you fired at us and the strange angles you came at us with, I will be pretty perplexed If I find out you are a faithful tither.

Jesus Is Lord!!!

(Big grin) Hey, I hit hard only because I've been hit hard myself. And, no, I don't "tithe". The Lord has given me a great love for people, which includes you. Surprised?

I cry often when I see other people's pain and suffering. I do what I can to eleviate the pain and suffering of others. I don't support organized religion and professional clergy, and I won't brag about who or what I do support. That's between the Lord and myself.

The conclusion?

Simply that the Lord's heart is clearly revealed to us in scripture and through His Spirit in us. It was always about people. When the world can see our love for one another being expressed first and foremost, they're drawn closer to a love for Christ, and thus more willing to enter a Kingdom of Light and Holiness. Buildings aren't holy. Clergy isn't holy. People are holy when the Lord makes them that way.

 

[Brother Mike]

alrighty then.........................

Conclusion:

Conclusion:Brother Mike

1) Tithing as given by the law is part of the old covenant that is clearly done away with. Nobody could keep the laws of God under flesh and it was not working well. So a better Covenant with better promises was given to us in Christ Jesus.

Tithing a tenth of any monies was NEVER mentioned as being part of our new Covenant. Jesus referred to it once with the pharisees, but money was never mentioned and the world was still under the Old law at the time. Jesus had to do his whole ministry under that Old Covenant.

To say a Christian is under some law to give a tenth of their income is not scriptural. Not only can this cause quilt, but can also be an attempt to put a Christian under bondage that the Lord had delivered us from. Paul warned the Galatians about this, asking them who has bewitched you when starting up old Law practice.

The new Testament Christian should consider God and his work and give freely with a cheerful heart. They are by no means put in bondage to a certain percent, but worship the Lord with the means they have.
They may also give a tenth of all their money if they choose and are in no bondage to do so.They do it out of love for God.

Conclusion:Brother Blademan

The Lord's heart is clearly revealed to us in scripture and through His Spirit in us. It was always about people. When the world can see our love for one another being expressed first and foremost, they're drawn closer to a love for Christ, and thus more willing to enter a Kingdom of Light and Holiness. Buildings aren't holy. Clergy isn't holy. People are holy when the Lord makes them that way.

More conclusions are welcome, but if possible base the conclusion after reading every post. Also an conclusion is based on evidence by the posts. These two conclusions are based on Scriptural evidence and have already been well debated, er... examined.. You can not beat these conclusions without going through every single post and shedding NEW light on something not covered.

God bless.
Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Blademan]

Nobody could keep the laws of God under flesh and it was not working well. So a better Covenant with better promises was given to us in Christ Jesus.

Amen

To say a Christian is under some law to give a tenth of their income is not scriptural.

Amen

Not only can this cause quilt, but can also be an attempt to put a Christian under bondage that the Lord had delivered us from.

Amen

The new Testament Christian should consider God and his work and give freely with a cheerful heart.

Good point. I would, however, add to this by saying that not all philenthropic works, and works of benevolence are "God's works" per se, and thus always worthy of our support, especially from the primary portion of our giving.

They are by no means put in bondage to a certain percent, but worship the Lord with the means they have.

I've observed some strange things in religious organizations, such as the thinking that one can turn on, like a light switch, GENUINE worship that is pleasing before the Lord, prompted with just the right mood music, words, lighting, etc. How sad indeed.

That's, another topic entirely, but what is relevant in this context is the idea that God is worshipped in or through substance that jingles or rustles in our pockets. The premise upon which this is based strains at the extreme outer limits of scriptural continuity.

They may also give a tenth of all their money if they choose and are in no bondage to do so.They do it out of love for God.

Remembering, of course, the need to remain consistent with God's priorities in our giving. Just wanted to make sure there was mention of that precursor to this conclusion.

Blessings to all...

 

[stephen]

I am a 'tither' I am pleased to inform you that I give at least a tenth of my income to the church where I am fed, cared for and appreciated.

I have submitted post on this subject supporting my reason. And I can support the tithe as surely as you that appose I would have you know I would suggest that if you do not tithe for whatever reason then thats ok.

I will be vising Kenya this coming November to look at a ladies dormitory which our church has funded accommodating 12 ladies. We have also provided beds/blankets/curtains and all else required. This building has been erected in the Nairobi Bible School. Believe me I could go on talking about the gospel cause and what we do

If you do not agree with the tithe.........don't bother

If you feel you are giving to men........don't bother

If for whatever reason you feel the tithe offensive.....don't bother

Why all this debate? Take account? What are you doing for the gospel cause? If you are doing as much as you can.....Hallelujah so am I......you are following your way....I follow mine

 

[stephen]

I am a 'tither' I am pleased to inform you that I give at least a tenth of my income to the church where I am fed, cared for and appreciated.

I have submitted post on this subject supporting my reason. And I can support the tithe as surely as you that appose I would have you know I would suggest that if you do not tithe for whatever reason then thats ok.

I will be vising Kenya this coming November to look at a ladies dormitory which our church has funded accommodating 12 ladies. We have also provided beds/blankets/curtains and all else required. This building has been erected in the Nairobi Bible School. Believe me I could go on talking about the gospel cause and what we do

If you do not agree with the tithe.........don't bother

If you feel you are giving to men........don't bother

If for whatever reason you feel the tithe offensive.....don't bother

Why all this debate? Take account? What are you doing for the gospel cause? If you are doing as much as you can.....Hallelujah so am I......you are following your way....I follow mine

Religeous Babylon will fall Rev. 17
Commercial Babylon will also fall Rev 18

Am I a Thief? - 04-25-08, 03:24 PM
I want to ask myself a very personal question. Am I stealing from the Almighty? Ordinarily the very term would be abhorrent to me, for any suggestion of pilfering or acquiring property belonging to another would fill me with disgust.

I seek to live among society as one having respect for the social laws that make me a good citizen I try to be meticulous in my Tax return, to be punctual paying bills, to have a system by which I can regulate the financial affairs of my life. But how accurate and persistent am I in squaring my affairs with God?

There is a debt of course which I cannot pay, and for which I depend upon His mercy and the value of Calvary's offering to settle the claim. The need for my consecration will never be exhausted, and I can only keep giving and giving again.

There is one aspect of my life , however, in which I can determine whether I am an offender against the requirements of God. An area which determines whether I am robbing the LOrd of Host's God himself, through the prophet very pertinently and clearly issues the challenge "Will a man rob God?"

The indignant reply of those who seek to be called by His Name is again in the form of a question "Wherein have we robbed thee?" In one simple, searching, scathing sentence comes the terse reply: "In tithes and offerings" Malachi 3 v 8 So I am on a spot. Not confronted by a Pastor, or Presbytery, but by the LOrd of Hosts. I ask my self the question "Am I guilty?" And if so why?

It cannot be because there is insufficient scriptural evidence that I ought to tithe. Nor that the principle of tithing was restricted to those under the Law, for I know that Abraham and Jacob gave their tithes long before it came into being. Gen 14 v 20 and ch 28 v 22

I cannot claim that it was just for Old Testament days, for I have clear references in Luke 11 v 42 and Hebrews 7 v 8 apart from the supporting scripture of 1Cor 16 v 1-2 and 2 Corinthians 8 v 1 -15 and ch 9 v 1 - 15 It cannot be because I cannot afford it, for were I not a child of God the devil would demand so much more of my money and my time.

Over and above this is the challenging ring from the chancellor of heaven "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house and prove me now herewith saith the Lord of Host's if I will not open you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground: neither shall your vine cast fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of Host's"
Malachi 3 v 10 -11

Perhaps I am honest enough to concede that I should be tithing, and in principle I probably am. Maybe my greatest offense is that I am careless. I am not as painstaking in making sure that I have given my tithe as I am in other financial matters. I check my salary, scrutinize my overtime, make sure I claim any Tax rebate due to me. But how careful am I in discharging my obligations to God?

Do I not systematically, and sacredly, take my tithe and lovingly put it to one side? Do I not feel the tender touch of God upon me as I keep this covenant with him? When I am absent by reason of sickness or work or holiday, do I keep a careful check and ensure that I have not missed my gift to God? What do I do with my tithes? Do I scatter them about complacently, or follow the divine injunction to bring them into the storehouse, which is the Church to which I belong,

Finally what harm is done if I do not tithe? In the first instance I grieve the one who has given His all for me. Secondly I restrict the blessing of God within the Church. Thirdly, I hinder the propagation of the gospel, which affects others. Fourthly I hurt myself and my home and family by missing the blessing God has promised.

Am I a thief?. Careless? Indifferent?

By God's grace from this day I will discharge my obligations, with the recognition that tithing is only the minimum of my giving to the Lord, and that the scripture speaks of offerings for which there is no maximum.

 

[Brother Mike]

well.

Nice Stephan. I tithe, I set it aside first as my God is first.
However, the conclusion of the majority on this topic does not believe that this is at all necessary. I strongly disagree, but after the bible study, this would be the correct conclusion.

Blademan: did ya have to pick at the conclusion even? I posted yours also, and am surprised you did not go back and find something wrong with your own conclusion. What a hoot!!!

God Bless ya, everyone!!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Blademan]

Blademan: did ya have to pick at the conclusion even? I posted yours also, and am surprised you did not go back and find something wrong with your own conclusion. What a hoot!!!

Oh, pish-posh. You mean you didn't find my conclusion almost perfect?

(Big grin) I wasn't really picking at your conclusion. I just wanted to add to it, and make a clarification.

You know me. I can't leave well enough alone.:weirdo:

 

[Brother Mike]

um

Why yes dear Brother. Your conclusion was perfect.

My conclusion was based on what I felt the majority of people that posted believed, based on what they consider firm scriptural evidence. Of course I did not agree with any of it, but why continue to bang my head against a wall.

your conclusion was far Superior in capturing the essence of scriptural evidence presented through this discussion however. I am honored to even have my meek and faulty conclusion posted next to yours.

God Bless Brother and have fun!!!!!!!


Jesus Is Lord!!!!!!

 

[Blademan]

See? A little false humility never hurt anyone...:rose-animated:

 

[Blademan]

I'm confused about something:

How does one, with a clear conscience, hand over the first fruits, lion's share of their giving over to institutional, religious organizations, as opposed to meeting needs first and foremost?

I mean, this is so basic, and yet I hear people bragging about how they hand their giving over to their church organization without one word about meeting needs.

The silence about doing as the scriptures exemplify is staggering, given what I see and hear people saying about their giving.

Why is this?

 

[Brother Mike]

I can't help it... Must Post!!!!

My Brother Blademan quoted:

How does one, with a clear conscience, hand over the first fruits, lion's share of their giving over to institutional, religious organizations, as opposed to meeing needs first and foremost?

I am to assume that a institutional religious organization would never do anything useful with your hard earned Lion share. Like preach the gospel, or feed the hungry, Send help to flood victims, or help another normal church become a institutional religious organization.

No, I am sure it's all just spent on new cars, and yachts.

Wonderful point Blademan..........:disagree:

 

[Blademan]

I am to assume that a institutional religious organization would never do anything useful with your hard earned Lion share. Like preach the gospel, or feed the hungry, Send help to flood victims, or help another normal church become a institutional religious organization.

How many of them actually preach the Gospel to the lost, as opposed to being mostly introverted? How many of them actually feed the hungry? Most of them around here do absolutely no outreach to the lost or the hungry.

Now, don't get me wrong. Perhaps some of the people therein do their own giving to the hungry and reach out to the lost, as it should be, but the institutions themselves around here do little to nothing for anyone but themselves. Having done my homework, I checked in on all this for myself to verify my suspicions.

Let's take this to another level, which is the word of God...the ultimate level. If we justify our refusal to adhere to the biblical examples in our giving, then how does that stack up against what we see in God's dealings with those who justify their actions on the basis of benevolence:

Num 26:61 And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the LORD.

Those two men were seeking to worship God with what appears to have been the best of intentions, but they did it in a manner that was not in accordance with His commands.

Matthew Henry's had this to say of those two men:


Leviticus 10:1-2

1. It does not appear the they had any orders to burn incense at all at this time. It is true their consecration was completed the day before, and it was part of their work, as priests, to serve at the altar of incense; but, it should seem, the whole service of this solemn day of inauguration was to be performed by Aaron himself, for he slew the sacrifices <LEV 9:8,15,18>, and his sons were only to attend him (v. 9,12,18); therefore Moses and Aaron only went into the tabernacle, v. 23. But Nadab and Abihu were so proud of the honour they were newly advanced to, and so ambitious of doing the highest and most honourable part of their work immediately, that though the service of this day was extraordinary, and done by particular direction from Moses, yet without receiving orders, or so much as asking leave from him, they took their censers, and they would enter into the tabernacle, at the door of which they thought they had attended long enough, and would burn incense. And then their offering strange fire is the same with offering strange incense, which is expressly forbidden, <EXO. 30:9>. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary)

So, we can see from this, in regard to the Lord, who does not change, that doing something, even with the purest of intentions, can and does displease the Lord if it's not in accordance with His express commands or examples.

Today, however, we don't see fire leaping out and comsuming people for their disregard for God's express examples in scripture concerning giving, and the Lord even allows people to be duped by seeming blessings for their actions, but that doesn't mean that He's pleased.

The parellel is handing over to organized religion one's primary giving, with the full knowledge that the intitution will absorb most of it for the facilities and the expenses associated with those facilities, with a token of the giving used for outreach through foreign missions and a few hundred pounds of food for the hungry, and maybe even provide for a couple of bills, but with those things being miniscule compared to the gigantic appetite of the facility and its professional and service staffing.

The temple itself was never supported by the tithe, and the primary focus of giving in the NT is always upon people rather than real estate and hirlings.

Today, however, we seem to justify the reversal of these priorities with the idea that, "Well, so long as some good comes of my giving, by way of some outreaches, then the rest is acceptable to me. I'm satisfied with that standard."

The real question isn't about OUR satiisfaction, it's about the Lord's.

Yes, what about God, and His commands and examples set before us? Doesn't His word mean anything to us when we see His express displeasure toward those who didn't follow His commands and examples to the letter?

Why does this not strike a heart-wrenching desire in more people for a desire to more closely follow His examples today, rather than to offer excuses on the same basis as those two men who were consumed in fire from the Lord for their lack of obedience, even though their intentions were pure?

Is this comparison so meaningless to most because of a lazy comfort most take in the status quo. Why do so many thrive on denial to the extent that they ignore the obvious discontinuity between their actions and the examples and commands of scripture?

 

[Brother Mike]

amazed?

Num 26:61 But Nadab and Abihu died when they offered strange and unholy fire before the Lord. (Amplified)

Num 26:61 But Nadab and Abihu died when they made an offering before the LORD with unauthorized fire.) (NIV)

Num 26:61 But Nadab and Abihu died when they burned fire that was not holy before the Lord. (NLV)

Num 26:61 but Nadav and Avihu died when they offered unauthorized fire before ADONAI. (CJB)



Um, lets see..... When Jesus told the pharisees to continue tithing (Ten percent of all the take.) A very good point was mentioned that not at one time money was mentioned. Well, taking the Bible literal and not even considering your heart condition which Jesus was referring to I had to concede on my point, not having biblical evidence that Jesus ever referred to actual cold hard cash.

That does not stop some however to Flip Flop on what they believe, as long as they think it somehow proves a point when considering "FIRE" as compared to giving money freely and being faithful in a tenth of money for all the Lord has done for you, as we are told to bring the first fruit of our labor.

If I just threw money in the offering plate, as just something to do without even considering God long before the service, always being selfish with my money, then it might be considered unholy. This what many Christians do as they look around in their Wallet for that ten or twenty, just so they will look as if they are doing something for God before the many eyes watching. It could be these People should be next in line for casket measurements and not those that consider God, and his tenth when handed any type of currency, always putting the kingdom first.


Makes ya wonder, huh.........

God Bless!!!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Blademan]

Um, lets see..... When Jesus told the pharisees to continue tithing (Ten percent of all the take.) A very good point was mentioned that not at one time money was mentioned. Well, taking the Bible literal and not even considering your heart condition which Jesus was referring to I had to concede on my point, not having biblical evidence that Jesus ever referred to actual cold hard cash. That does not stop some however to Flip Flop on what they believe, as long as they think it somehow proves a point when considering "FIRE" as compared to giving money freely and being faithful in a tenth of money for all the Lord has done for you, as we are told to bring the first fruit of our labor.

The reason I drew the line of comparison between Nadab, Abihu and the examples of NT giving was in reference to the Lord, and the fact that He never changes. He expected them to follow the instructions given...to the letter...literally...regardless of any and all the good intentions any may apply as justifications for what they do in contrast to the scriptures.

Now, if we take Jesus' words literally, then we're also bound to follow His instructions to yet another man to go and offer up blood sacrifices if and when we're healed.

I agree with you that we must take all things into consideration. I also agree that Jesus was indeed telling the pharisees to tithe of the increase of even their spices they raised. How was the tithe defined of which Jesus made reference? Well, simply that it was a tenth of the increase of the fields, orchards, vineyards, flocks and herds, which was to be handed over the Levites.

Wages are not an increase as defined by the very Law to which Jesus was making reference when addressing those pharisees. Now, if I'm wrong about this, then someone please show me from the scriptures, and I'll concede the error in my understanding. No man walking the face of this green earth was required by that very Law, to which Jesus was referring, to hand over to the Levites a tenth of his wages for that very reason. Wages were/are an EXCHANGE of money for one's labor and skills. Wages are nowhere treated as an INCREASE as we see with crops and livestock. Again, if this is in error, then I welcome discussion on it.

If I just threw money in the offering plate, as just something to do without even considering God long before the service, always being selfish with my money, then it might be considered unholy. This what many Christians do as they look around in their Wallet for that ten or twenty, just so they will look as if they are doing something for God before the many eyes watching.

I think people should support the institution from which they reap direct benefit. If they plop a ten or a twenty in, then they've done their duty. I've never seen a sign in one of those places stating how much it costs each person for them to provide the facility and the religious service show in the auditorium. Therefore, I can see that it would be somewhat confusing to know as to just how much each person should pay for what they receive from that place. There's no price tag on display.

The idea that such organizations are God-breathed, and thus worthy of being the objects of our first fruits, primary portion of our giving seems to eminate from nothing but pure opinion and emotional ties. Doing God's work is ALL our responsibilities in His Kingdom. Hiring others to do that for us is a foreign concept to the scriptures, so far as I've observed.

We have the freedom to use communal tools to accomplish larger tasks, but when we elevate those tools to the level of biblical legitimacy in the place of us living out our individual responsibilities, well, that simply misses the mark of what scripture teaches.

It could be these People should be next in line for casket measurements and not those that consider God, and his tenth when handed any type of currency, always putting the kingdom first.

I'm glad that God's Kingdom has no montary price attached to it like our religious church organizations. I further His Kingdom through my time, efforts, blood, sweat, tears, money, all that I have...the only difference being that I don't do it by proxy...through real estate and hirlings. I also love and support those who do His work on foreign and domestic soils, delivering the Gospel to the lost. Very few of the institutional church organizations around here do anything at all to get the Gospel into the hands and hearts of the lost, or to provide food and/or sustenance to the needy. Many of the "pastors" in them have told me that it's enough to preach at those who enter the door, and then leave.

What do you make of that sentiment? Does it have the sound to you of being consistent with the word of God?

 

[Chad]

Blademan and Brother Mike, you've both rambled on back and forth for several pages. Take it to private message instead.

Thread closed.