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Rethinking the tithe

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Brother, my pastor labors full time like any other person with a full time "job". He loves what he does to serve the Lord. However, how would you expect him to feed his family if he pastors/labors for the church full time without a salary? Do you think GOD looks down on him and expects him to do all of this for free? As a matter of fact, its not about earning but receiving what is necessary (money) to feed and clothe his family - like anyone else out there.

Personally I think that's the way it should be. I don't believe that the clergy/ laity system or doctrine is or was instituted by God but is a man-made tradition. I am all for evangelists or anyone sent abroad to communicate the gospel being financially supported by the body because their travels would make it very difficult to work a regular job. But I see no reason a Pastor or any other local minister can not work a job and support themselves and set a good example.

I don't want to distract the thread so if someone wants to open a thread about the Clergy/Laity system I would be happy to give my two cents

I think giving is great after all it is a new covenant principle but tithing is not and to top it off what is commonly taught concerning obedience to tithing today is an outright lie and found no where in the scriptures old or new testaments. Now if people want to tithe anyway thats their prerogative just don't spiritualize it and make it an obligation from God because when it comes down to it all they are obedient to is a man-made carnal teaching.
 
Member
I already responded about the money thing.

Yes, but not with any appologetic, just conclusions with no real premises.

It's what I have to give to God.. I can't tithe cows or chickens.

Oh, so this is about you? What I mean is, this is something that you believe is a requirement for you, not everyone else? This is a personal choice, based on your not having livestock to offer, or crops?

Fish were sold for coin. Coin last longer than a fish. Did they tithe that coin from fish sold? It would be speculation if we think they did as there is no scripture.

Very true. Based on the definition of the tithe, the money from fish remained in the pockets of the fishermen rather than the pockets of the Levites.

The whole question was, is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar?

Let's look at that key word from the Greek, shall we.

2778 kensos-

1) census (among the Romans, denoting a register and valuation of property in accordance with which taxes were paid), in the New Testament the tax or tribute levied on individuals and to be paid yearly (our capitation or poll tax)
2) the coin with which the tax is paid, tribute money

The tribute of which they were asking about was TAXES, which has nothing whatsoever to do with God and the tithe. According to what you quoted of that exchange, Jesus stated that the coin (money), which had Caesar's image on it, was to be rendered to Caesar, and the things that are God's to God. What is God's? Worship, honor, glory, one's very life.

Jesus asked for the tribute money.

Yes, for comparative purposes. I too could hold a coin in my hand, on that I could use for paying my taxes, as an object lesson to my children about the respect, love and honor they owe their mother. We all have the freedom to use props as object lessons, so why isn't Jesus allowed that same freedom in what He did without it being contrived as being a new, silent command to start tithing money?

This is money used to buy goods and services.

But the question put to Jesus was about taxes, not purchasing Wal-Mart goods made in China (humorously speaking).

God's mug shot is not on the coin. Does any of that belong to God? or do we render something else to God?

Something else, because God has no need for money. For illustration purposes, allow me to provide you a comparison:

Question: What happens when you pull the monetary support out from under an institutional church organization?

Answer: It collapses into an organizational heap (nonfunctional and insolvent).

Question: What happens when you pull the monetary support out from under the Church?

Answer: The Church continues to live on, because she's a living, breathing entity. Organized religion is not a living, breathing entity.

This shows us that what God desires from us is that which is eternal, not temporal. He owns cattle on a thousand hills.

Jesus said something belongs to God and he just happens to be describing money.

Well, you're free to believe that, but the text gives us good reason to believe that He was speaking of much higher things than the petty, lowliness of money. Jesus said to His disciples that the wise and wordly-minded couldn't understand the depths of His words, and that the spiritual discerned them properly for what they truly said.

I think a logical conclusion would be to assume God is suppose to get some of Caesar's tribute money. After all he did not stop anyone from throwing money in to the treasure when the Widow came to give her money.

This was never about not putting money into the box for the upkeep of the temple. This has all been about the tithe, which had nothing to do with what the widow gave.

Everything in the earth belongs to God.

I agree.
 
Member
Ok, More Tithe again.

Chad, sorry I missed you.
I am not trying to sound mean or have a cold heart.

I know those scriptures, (Thank you for them.) and have given plenty of food and time to the shelters or poor. I don't feel God's money should be spent on those that want nothing to do with God. All the money and food is not going to help them recover from there condition.

God does have ministry's to help those in need. Our church Gives Thousands of dollars a month to these ministry's. Not every ministry was called to feed everyone.

I have a limited amount of funds to spend. My brothers and Sisters in Christ Come first. I perfere the house of God over those that are not God's.
Talking to Christians:

1Pe 4:9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.

Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honor preferring one another;

Sorry if I came off wrong.

Blademan:

I am going to assume that we are not going to agree on the coin to Caesar thing. You have some valid points. My question is do I need to really go that Deep in to this? Jesus held a coin, said give Caesar's his and God's his. Pretty simple to me.
The thing is, I don't want God nit picking at me. You see it your way and I see it my way. We both are told to live by faith, and must do what we feel is right.

Does the new Testament give a command to tithe? NO
Do we see people in the Old Testament give a Tenth back to all God gave them? Yes

Jacob did, but he did it under his own conviction. He was not trying to keep some law.

At a bible study a young Christians fellow was telling us that he read that Jesus came with a Sword. This concerned him. Instead of expounding this passage of scriptures a couple other Christians made fun of him. I rebuked them because at least this brother believed what he read and took the Bible word for word.

We can look at all kinds of words we use freely and have a great debate on them. look at this scripture.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

To me it seems that we need to confess Jesus as Lord to enter in to Heaven. We have eternal life by our belief in his life, (He was real) death (He Died for our goofs and sins.), burial (Yes there was evidence of him being dead in the tomb.) and resurrection. (Those bones in that box? They are not his.)

Now some say that they will not be saved but need to be dunked in water first. (I agree as it's a good conscience toward God, but give the guy a break if there is no water to be dunked in around. some strongly disagree.)

The word saved does not mean eternal life. The word saved never has. Same with the word Salvation. I wonder how these scriptures would sound if we only knew Greek and were hearing them the first time.

When Peter was asked by what authority he used to make this man at Gate beautiful healed he Told them how this man got healed.

Act 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?

Act 4:9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.


Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation (Physical health, Moral health, in safety) in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Heal, protect, make well, make whole, preserve.)

Well I have heard that that Rom 10:9 is a positive (FAITH) confession for getting your Backside out of sickness or trouble. The comparison to Acts 4:12 prove that. Rome 10:9 can't mean eternal life because it's never mentioned.

What a mess.

What about when Jesus said we can have a conversation with a mountain and it's suppose to jump into the ocean? Mark 11:23.

I think it's proven. Tithing must be By faith. I see enough evidence that we should tithe. Others see that we should give but not under some legalistic law that would force us to do so.
We must do what we feel is right before God. Let not our heart condemn us.

God Bless everyone
Jesus Is Lord.


 
Member
Greetings to you brother Ushalk

"beam, seed in the bible is not money anywhere"

I percieve that 'seed' can be many things as the word tells us:

1. Job 4.8.........and those who sow trouble reap it
2. Psalm 126:5...those who sow in tears
3. Hosea 8:7......they sow the wind
4. Hosea 10:12...Sow for yoursevles righteousness
5. James 3:18.....Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness
6. Mark 4:15......Along the path where the word is sown
7. Proverbs 22:8..He who sows wickedness reaps trouble

and lastly Galations 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>cb(6,8);</SCRIPT>

I believe the "whatsoever" definately includes sowing money as well".

"Father i thank you that you prepare your people for works of service, so that we the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ in Jesus name-amen" Ephesians 4:12-13

Best regards
beam
 
Member
I am going to assume that we are not going to agree on the coin to Caesar thing. You have some valid points. My question is do I need to really go that Deep in to this? Jesus held a coin, said give Caesar's his and God's his. Pretty simple to me.

Perhaps over-simplification is the problem. We can indeed take some things very simply, but not all. Doing so can and does lead to error, as Jesus pointed out concerning other people's understanding of His parables.

The thing is, I don't want God nit picking at me. You see it your way and I see it my way. We both are told to live by faith, and must do what we feel is right.

As for myself, I don't go by "feeling." We both disagree, which means that one (or both) of us is wrong. It behooves us therefore to seek out the truth, to reason it out, and to seek the spirit of God on the matter.

Does the new Testament give a command to tithe? NO
Do we see people in the Old Testament give a Tenth back to all God gave them? Yes

No on both counts. The OT tithe was not "giving" per se, it was demanded. It was God's Law. It wasn't freewill like it is today.

Supporting a building isn't giving to God, because doing so is merely supporting that from which we directly benefit ourselves. Meeting needs of other believers and those in our community around us is giving to God. Supporting those evangelising, and thus ministering Christ to the lost in the field, is giving to God. Giving water to a thirsting child in the name of Christ is giving to God. Loving your neighbor as you love yourself is giving to God.

Jacob did, but he did it under his own conviction. He was not trying to keep some law.

Jacob is not an example of giving. His tithe had strings attached to every morsel he gave. He made demands upon the Lord as preconditions to his giving. Is that how you give?

What about when Jesus said we can have a conversation with a mountain and it's suppose to jump into the ocean? Mark 11:23.

Conversation? Well, I think I see some of the problem in your analysis of scripture. If I command a mountain to cast itself into the ocean, that's not a conversation. Words mean things, and faith gives our words power. An improper understanding of what's written leads to powerlessness.

I think it's proven. Tithing must be By faith. I see enough evidence that we should tithe.

But that coin Jesus held up was not at all in the context of tithing. It was about taxes. I challenge you, in the love of Christ, to show me in that text where that confrontation had anything to do with tithing. Upon this realization, I think perhaps you will be edified by the truth.

As you can see, I'm not a member of that grand ol' club GROUP-THINK. Groups tend to foist beliefs upon themselves and one another that appeal to the sensibilities and titilate the ego, but not necessarily to the truth itself.

We must do what we feel is right before God. Let not our heart condemn us.

Blessedly, the Lord at no time ever called upon us to go by what our feelings speak. It is by His Spirit and His written word that we know what is right and truthful, not by our feelings.
 
Active
What is the tithe? It is the "gateway for the believer into the covenant of blessings."
taken from another thread about the importance of tithing )

I use to tithe, I remember when I didn't have that full 10% how defeated I felt, ashame and just scared to lose my blessings for that week.

If I got sick or things were bad, I knew it was because I didn't tithe ( this is what is being preached by Ministers ) At some point I was like God , I've accepted the cross I walk in love with my nieghbours, yet I'm not going to recieve any blessing this week because I didn't tithe ?

Thats what they say you tithe then you are blessed, so basically to hold on to that blessing you MUST continuously tithe.

I thought I was already blessed, Jesus died on the cross I accepted him, in his word he said ' there is no condemnation for those who receieve him ".

Then I find scripture telling me what to do when I need something.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Mat 7:7-11

If ye abide [remain] in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will [desire], and it shall be done unto [for] you. Jh 15:7

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever [whatever] ye desire [ask], when ye pray, believe that ye [do WU] receive them, and ye shall have them. Mk 11:24



I'm no bible scholar but I believe " Prayer" is our gateway to our blessings.
There's humility in prayer, its personal...and tithing sometimes is prideful..." I give my church X amount of dollars monthly '' , or Lord I give this ..now give me this.

I'm sorry but I can only judge tithing for what it is today....
And if we are honest we all know we tithe in hope of getting something in return

We didn't work for our salvation so it's hard for me to believe I have to to work now to get and keep my blessings.

Don't get me wrong..I may not tithe but I do give offerings.

I speak for myself when I say, I was blessed the day I accepted Jesus as my Lord and saviour, and I know the only way to lose that blessing and that covering is if I walk away from him.

I'm no bible scholar, I repeat.
My christian walk is a personal one, I've been blessed with leaders who forced me to read the bible and discern what God was trying to say.

I'm not telling anyone not to tithe, if you believe thats your gateway to blessings and you believe you're being obedience..God bless you.

For those who can't make their quota for church this sunday, there are some church ( like mine ), who would accept your dollar or even 25cent. Because giving shouldn't be a burden, when you walk to that offering plate you should be joyful not for what your about to get ( the new give to receive mentality preached in church ), but because YOU are already blessed. If you woke up that morning thats a blessing and whatever is in your purse should be counted a blessing .





jiggyflly
By Roger Sapp

Take the following True or False quiz to see how much your really understand about tithing. We predict that many of you will be surprised. Record your answers.

True or False? 1. The Lord Jesus Christ would have tithed.

True or False? 2. Simon Peter, originally a fisherman, would have tithed of the fish that he caught.

True or False? 3. Everyone in the Old Testament seeking to obey the Law of Moses would have tithed.

True or False 4. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek in the same way that believers tithe to the Lord Jesus Christ.

True or False? 5. The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that they should tithe.

True or False? 6. There are many examples of people tithing of their incomes in the Bible.

True or False? 7. The New Testament teaches that we should tithe to ministers in the same way that Jews tithed to the Priests.

True or False? 8. The Bible teaches that God’s standard for giving is ten-percent.

True or False? 9. The righteous poor tithed in the Old Testament.

True or False? 10. Since everyone is held to the same standard, tithing is fair to everyone.

True or False? Bonus Question. The Bible teaches that everyone should give ten-percent of their ongoing income.

Here are the answers.

True or False? 1. The Lord Jesus Christ would have tithed of His income. This one is false. The Lord Jesus Christ was a carpenter by profession and then after He became 30 years old He was a preacher and teacher. Neither of these professions was required by the Law of Moses to tithe anything.

True or False? 2. Simon Peter, originally a fisherman, would have tithed of the fish that he caught. This one is false also. Fishermen were not required to tithe anything either. There were only two kinds of professions in ancient Israel that were required to tithe. Farmers and husbandmen (shepherds and herders) were the only tithers in ancient Israel. They only tithed food.

True or False? 3. Everyone in the Old Testament seeking to obey the Law of Moses would have tithed. It should be evident by now that this one is false also. There were many people with other professions who were not required by the Law to tithe. For instance, the apostle Paul being a tent-maker was not required to tithe. In fact, none of the Twelve apostles would have been tithers because none of them came from the required professions.

True or False? 4. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek in the same way that believers tithe to the Lord Jesus Christ. This one is false also. Abraham’s tithe was very different than what the Church practices today. For instance, Abraham only tithed once. The Church tithes continually. Abraham tithed of the spoils of a war. The Church tithes of its income. Abraham had no increase because he gave the other 90% of the spoils of the war back to the original owner. The Church tithes of its increase. There is no commandment or any logic or indication in the New Testament that believers are to tithe anything to the Lord Jesus Christ. Believers are to give generously as God blesses them.

True or False? 5. The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that they should tithe. False. Christ only makes two statements about tithing. Neither statement says that His disciples should tithe anything. Christ first statement is to the Pharisees not to His disciples. In that statement, Christ says that the Pharisees should continue to tithe food not money. He also says that this tithe of food is a part of the Law and says that it is not even an important part of the Law. His other statement is about a self-righteous Pharisee bragging that he tithes. Christ says that the other man who was not tithing who humbled himself was justified in the sight of God. The self-righteous tither was not justified in the sight of God.

True or False? 6. There are many examples of people tithing of their incomes in the Bible. False. In 4000 years of recorded biblical history there is not a single example of what the Church practices today in tithing money. There are two one-time acts of tithing recorded before the Law. Neither man, Abraham or Jacob, seems to think that they should continue this process beyond the one-time act. Neither man is tithing of their income since each is only involved in a one-time act. Abraham is tithing of the spoils of a war. All the other tithing recorded in the Bible is found in the Law of Moses. In the Law, money was never used to tithe only food. In fact, when someone wanted to use money rather than bring the produce to Jerusalem, God required a 20% penalty to be added. In other words, God discouraged the tithing of money.

True or False? 7. The New Testament teaches that we should tithe to ministers in the same way that Jews tithed to the Priests. False. The New Testament has nothing at all to say about this. This is extra-biblical logic that is not found in the New Testament. In fact, the Book of Hebrews makes it clear that believers are not of the Levitical order of priests. Believers are of a higher order, the order of Melchizedek.

True or False? 8. The Bible teaches that God’s standard for giving is ten-percent. False. Neither the Old Testament or the New Testament teaches this. This is extra-biblical logic again. First of all, the food tithe in the Old Testament was not ten-percent. It was actually more like 23% annually on average. There were three tithes in the Law of Moses. The first tithe was paid only by agrarian families three times yearly to the Priests in Jerusalem. The second tithe was saved by the agrarian families to support this annual trip. It was called the festival tithe. It was for a family vacation. The third tithe was given every three years to the local storehouse, so it amounted to about 3% annually. This was the poor tithe collected for those in need. This is the tithe that Malachi wrote about. None of these tithes were money. They were only food. Those who earned their livings by other occupations did not pay a tithe of anything. However, they did give offerings required by the Law some of which were in silver, gold, bronze and copper coins. Nowhere does the New Testament change this legal obligation of tithe food for some agrarian Israelites in the Law to money tithing for all Christians.

True or False? 9. The righteous poor tithed in the Old Testament. False. The poor had no harvest or flocks to tithe from. They were able to glean the corners of the field of those who were more prosperous.

True or False? 10. Since everyone is held to the same standard, tithing is fair to everyone. False. Tithing is incredibly unfair. Ten-percent of the income of a poor person is a great burden, while ten-percent of the income of a rich person may be no burden at all. If a person only has a $1000 a month income, then $100 of that income will affect their lifestyle and may even impact their ability to take care of their children’s basic needs and pay their bills. If a person has a $10,000 a month income then giving $1,000 per month should have little affect on their lifestyle since they should have a good amount of disposable income beyond their basic needs. If a person has a $100,000 a month income, then $10,000 a month has no appreciable affect on their lifestyle at all.

True or False? Bonus Question. The Bible teaches that everyone should give ten-percent of their ongoing income. False. The modern practice of tithing has five basic elements expressed as everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. How do Bible facts about tithing actually fit with this teaching? Lets compare and contrast the modern teaching of tithing with the Bible.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the Everyone element. The two events before the Law do not support the idea that everyone should pay tithe. Only Abraham and Jacob in each situation are paying tithe. Genesis doesn’t record anyone else tithing. Abraham and Jacob don’t seem to teach their children to tithe. One of Jacob’s children, Joseph, is a particularly righteous man. In the more than ten detailed chapters devoted to Joseph, we don’t discover him tithing either. Not everyone tithed in Genesis before the Law.

In the Law of Moses, not everyone was required to tithe or give firstfruits. Only those who were actually growing food or raising sheep or cattle were required by the Law to tithe the food or present firstfruits. People from other occupations were not required to tithe since they had no harvest or growth of flocks to tithe or to present firstfruits from. Not everyone tithed food who lived under the Law. No one under the Law tithed money at all.

Christ has only a few words to say about tithing. In those words, Christ does not say that everyone should tithe. He says that unbelieving Jews living under the Law should tithe food if they are growing it. He mentions three food plants. Christ is not addressing His disciples. He is addressing unbelieving Pharisees.

The apostle Paul does not teach that everyone is obligated to tithe or to even to give. He teaches that giving is completely voluntary. The first apostolic council in Acts Chapter 15 does not say that Gentile believers should tithe either. There is absolutely no evidence that any Gentile Christian in the First Century ever tithed anything.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the gives element. The two events before the Law do seem like giving. They are both voluntary acts. God does not require either man, Abraham or Jacob, to give anything. While this does on the surface seem to support the tithing teaching, it actually contradicts some aspects of the Tithing Obligation teaching. While the proponents of tithing teach that tithing is giving, they also often teach that tithing is required, that a tithe must be paid. Of course, this is a contradiction in their teaching. Something can be only given if it is entirely voluntary. If it is required, then it is, in this case, a fee for spiritual services or a religious tax. If some teach that a believer comes under a curse if they do not tithe, then they are not teaching giving but teaching paying an obligated tithe. Of course, they are right in one sense because they are often spiritualizing the Law of Moses to teach tithing.

Tithing in the Law of Moses was never giving. It was much more like paying taxes. The Law of Moses required tithing by farmers and husbandmen. They would not have seen their tithing as giving. There was nothing voluntary in their paying tithe. They would have been in violation of the Law if they had not done it.

Again, Christ has very little to say about tithing. He did say that Jewish people living under the Law pay tithe. Christ does teach a great deal about finances and giving but never instructs His disciples to tithe money or anything else. He does not instruct them to receive tithes either.

Paul writes a great deal about finances and giving but never instructs anyone to tithe or to receive tithes. The first apostolic council in Acts Chapter 15 is silent on the subject of tithing but is clear that Gentiles are not to keep any aspects of the Law of Moses. That would include tithing of anything.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the 10% element. The two events before the Law of Moses do seem to support the idea that ten percent of something should be given. The number ten is the same. However, the other four elements are significantly different. This makes tithing being practiced by the Church very different from what is happening in Genesis. The only similarity is the ten percent number.

Christ does validate the ten-percent number but only for Jews living under the Law of Moses. He tells the Pharisees that they should pay tithe, ten percent, of their produced food. He also tells them that paying ten-percent is not a weighty matter of the Law. In saying this, Christ does tell us that tithing is a matter of the Law.

The apostle Paul repeatedly warns believers about the curse of the Law. Gentile believers should not attempt to keep any aspects of the Law. Believers are not required to give ten-percent of food or anything else. The writings of the other apostles, James and Peter, are silent about Christians giving ten percent of food or anything else.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the ongoing element. The two examples before the Law of Moses do not reveal the practice of on-going tithing. They both appear strongly to be one-time acts. In the case of Jacob, we don’t know exactly what he did but it does seem that he is promising to tithe once if God blesses him. The Church’s practice of ongoing, repetitious tithing simply cannot be validated by two one-time acts.

The only place in the Bible where ongoing, repetitious tithing can be found is in the Law of Moses. Those who were farming or practicing husbandry in Israel had a lifetime obligation to tithe the food that they produced. This ongoing food tithe to support the Mosaic Levitical ministry is often spiritualized to justify repetitious money tithing in support of Christian ministry. This justification is not found in the New Testament.

Christ’s statement about tithing reveals that the ongoing tithing of food is under the Law. Christ says nothing about His disciples practicing ongoing tithing of anything. While the writings of the apostles in the New Testament often speak of generous giving, they are silent about ongoing tithing of anything. The first apostolic council is also silent about ongoing tithing of anything but releases Gentile believers from any aspects of keeping the Law of Moses.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the income element. Abraham tithes on the spoils of war, not his entire income. Abraham tithed the captured belongings of his defeated enemies. Additionally, Genesis reveals that Abraham didn’t even keep the ninety percent that was remaining. He returned those possessions to the King of Sodom. Abraham’s income, his possessions or any part of his own wealth wasn’t involved at all in his tithing. He had no increase to tithe on. In Jacobs case, we don’t know exactly what he did since all Genesis records is his promise to God. In other words, there is no support in the events before the Law that Christians should give ten percent of their ongoing income.

Nearly everyone that teaches tithing resorts to using the Law and prophets under the Law to teach it. Those that teach Christian tithing from the Law often neglect to reveal that only food produced was tithed on but never money. Only those who earned their livings by producing food tithed at all. Those Israelites who earned money by other means such as tent making, weaving, carpentry, money lending, fishing or many other occupations never tithed on their incomes since it was not commanded of them.

Christ does not change tithing food to tithing money. The writings of the apostles do not change tithing food to tithing money. The apostolic council releases the Gentile believers from any keeping of the Law. They certainly do not change tithing food to tithing money. The book of Hebrews does mention the Old Testament tithing of food but does not validate tithing money for believers today.

Finally, it should be obvious to the reader that this doctrine is pieced together from these various passages. Not a single passage in itself actually teaches what the Church practices today. Spiritualization of the Law is used to teach tithing. Reasoning that is not found in the Bible is used to justify Christians embracing a legalistic practice from the Old Testament. In more than 4000 years of recorded Biblical history, there is not a single recorded example of tithing that is similar to what the Church practices today. We recommend that every Christian renounce this unscriptural practice and reject any lingering fear, guilt or condemnation! God’s children have no debt to their Father to pay other than thanksgiving and praise. Their elder brother, the Lord Jesus Christ, has paid in full the debt. Christ will build His Church but only with the truth. He needs no help from a false doctrine that puts the Children of God under bondage and the curse of the Law. The children are free!

[/QUOTE]
 
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Member
Tithing...

Brother rizen1
Thank you so much for a response.
By his stripes you were healed (Past tense) Your physical healing was already paid for, so no money needs to be paid. Satan is the goof ball that loves to put us under condemnation. He also likes to lie and that's all the time.

yes, God did say he would multiply you seed sown, so an increase in goods and doors being opened will happen and I see enough scripture to give Jesus the 10th of all that we make to bless and support the Gospel, but that has nothing to do with the fact your his child and he loves you. Him helping you through trouble has nothing to do with what you still owe him. He is not going to keep you under any debt anyway.

you always never had the full 10 percent? Well, that's not a true statement. You did but spent it. Get paid, set aside the 10th the first thing for God and do not touch it. The amount has nothing to do with it. I have more than once had one of those pink power bills with the shut off the very next Monday. The question, Give God my 78.00 or pay the power bill. Not a hard choice. God gets his 78.00 and meet the Flintstones on Monday. Not once had the power been shut off. Not once has God failed to supply our needs.
when I came to the Church I am at now, my family had 100.00 dollars to our name. It was our fist night at church and we were living in a hotel. Well that night the church was taking up money to buy a boat in the south pacific for another ministry. I had only 100.00 to pay the next day hotel rent, food and gas. The Lord asked me to give that 100.00 to the boat. Gasp!!!! I will tell you thoughts of my family not eating and being stuck in our van over night did not appeal to me much.
However, I have been at this place before and am convinced that God would never fail. I gave all the money I had.
The next morning at 9:00 I was up praising God for the money. (Not for his sake, but mine. He was already full aware of he situation.) At 11:00 am it was money or out in the street. At 10:00am 400 some miles away a women called me. She told me the Lord had her up all night to send us 300.00 dollars though walmart. She did and we ate, and had money to pay the rent on time. Latter we received 200.00 dollars and someone left 3 bags of food on our hotel door step.
God is faithful, He never fails..............
But................
Never, Never, Never let someone put you under conviction about their own revelation. If you try to follow someone Else's faith then you will get in trouble. This has even cost lives, made people broke.
I coughed blood for six months and no doctor. By his stripes I am healed and it's good enough for me. The six month I coughed a whole lot of blood into my bathroom sink. I stopped and told Satan that I can cough blood until I am 120 but I will not be moved by this and that's final. I am Healed, Jesus did it.
that was the last time I ever coughed blood again. Would I recommend that to someone else? NO WAY!!! go to the Doctor and lets believe God for help from there.
Would I recommend you tithe if you think you can't afford to, and put you behind on paying your bills? NO Way. Let God give you want you need to make that stand in faith, and tithe for the gospels sake and not just so God can bless you (That,s the after effect not the reason.). Watch those that put you under condemnation.

God Bless you Brother.



BROTHER BLADEMAN God bless you. OK, on to the scriptures.


Over over-simplification? Could be a problem. I look for other scriptures and compare as we are told to. Isa ch 28. compare Spiritual with Spiritual.

Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Deu 14:22 You shall surely tithe all the yield of your seed produced by your field each year. (Amplified)

Deu 14:28 At the end of every three years you are to take all the tenths of your produce from that year and store it in your towns(KJV tells us gates). (CJB)


Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.


Deut 14:22 clearly says that every year the field harvest was given as a Tithe. This was paid in something that was grown, but that's what they were paid in and at the time they were paid. We get paid Weekly, bi-Weekly, monthly. I don't get paid in corn or wheat but I get paid in Money (U.S Issue)

If I love God, why would I nit pick like this? I am not looking for a way to get out of giving God what is his and Blessing him for a great Job or increase. Where was giving God what belongs to him done away with?
There were priest to take care of back then as there are today.
There was a covenant to establish back then as there was today.
Abraham gave a tenth of all he had gotten. it's mentioned in Gen and again in Hebrews (New Testament) To me when the Bible says ALL it means all.

Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Hebrews chapter seven tells us the progression of the priest hood, Jesus being the greatest High priest. The tithe was mentioned for a reason and not just for a history lesson. All scripture is for reprove and doctrine.

How much more are we Being filled with the Holy Ghost, bought and paid for with a price (Great price) not give the tenth to our great High Priest who has suffered greatly and falsely accused with out sin, to establish His Church and His covenant?
Yes, were not under The law but the law of faith, that never changed the fact there is still a work to be supported and a greater high priest in charge, With a better covenant that is established on better promises I don't see how tithing a tenth of our first fruits has changed.

The men in the old Testament did not have the filling of the Great Holy Spirit, did not walk in God's Love, did not obey for the most part. So the law had been given. How much more should we being Spirit Filled Christians should not give God the tenth and honor Jesus with our first fruits of labor? under the ministry of our great Lord Jesus?


Deu 26:1 And it shall be, when thou art come in unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and possessest it, and dwellest therein;
Deu 26:2 That thou shalt take of the first of all the fruit of the earth, which thou shalt bring of thy land that the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt put it in a basket, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name there.

Deu 26:4 And the priest shall take the basket out of thine hand, and set it down before the altar of the LORD thy God.

Jesus is our High Priest, he came to fulfill the law not abolish the law. He never told us that God was not due a tenth of what we make. There still is a covenant to establish today, there are still churches and people to feed. I don't need to dig and try to find a loop hole for not giving my Lord what is his for he has increased me and blessed me. Why would I hold that back from him? I think our standards should be a lot higher under the Lord Jesus as I am not some poor sinner saved by grace, worm in the dirt, hardly making it along Christian. I am the righteous of God and Jesus is my Lord. I am more than a conqueror because he loves me and if he said bring the tenth, and being blessed with faithful Abraham brought the tenth to his high priest, then bless God I am not holding back from my High priest.

Everyone can nit pick all they want and play on words. The covenant did change, but the supporting of God's work never changed. More is expected out of us today than what was expected from those under the old law. More was freely given to us, why not give our Lord Jesus a tenth of all that he has blessed us with?




-----------------------------------------------------------
Brother Blademan.
Mark 11:23
Jesus gave this instruction right after the incident with the fig tree (Physical Object) The fig tree died withered from the roots. He saw they were astonished by this so he expounded on faith.
whosoever shall say to this mountian............ be removed and put in to the sea.

What conditions are there?
not doubt but belive, and speak. He used the Word say 3 times.
He said we shall have whatsoever we say.
Did he really mean mountain?
You better believe he did. It's the believe in your heart part that hinders us. Thats a hard thing to believe.
We are still living far below what is available to us today. Howerver you will have what you say.
God bless you Brother!!! Thank you for your time. :)

Jesus Is Lord

(no response to that coin thing. Were just not going to see eye to eye on it, so no big deal.




 
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The covenant did change, but the supporting of God's work never changed

I 'm sorry but your last post seem to impose the notion that those who don't tithe are being ungrateful to God. You don't know how much we give, nor do you know who we give our money to.

Just because some choose to give a different way, I don't see how that's dishonoring God.

Why would I hold that back from him? I think our standards should be a lot higher

I think my offerings are just as worthy in the eyes of my God....

You don't have to justify or explain yourself to no one but, you should respect others beliefs, you don't have to accept it...but to make it out as thought " there is so many churchs and people in need "..and tithing is the only way to support these needs is wrong.

There still is a covenant to establish today, there are still churches and people to feed.


If I love God, why would I nit pick like this? I am not looking for a way to get out of giving God what is his and Blessing him for a great Job or increase.

Amen..and I commend you on that...but I see no difference to what you do and someone that gives an offering.

There is no one on this thread that said we should not give..so I'm confuse to whom your speaking to
 
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Read above post

Greetings Brother rizen1. We were both typing. thank you for your response. I gave a heavy handed approach because I see tithing as scriptural. I see this covenant and the Church of our Lord Jesus very important. The tithe supported God's work then and being his child I am commanded to support the work now. I also give offerings (Above the Tithe) However, please read my post above again as I left you a message and edited my post while you were typing.
God Bless.
 
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Hey hey hey....I'm a girl.

Not sure why people think rizen1 =male....

LOL....

Anywho...This is all my personal beliefs on the matter, anyone is free to believe something else.

Ministers are inflicting their members with " fear '', if you don't tithe everything will go wrong.

I turn on the tv..I see ministers saying.."If you want that family member off of drugs, God is saying send $1000 to this minsitry.. When you sow that seed, blessing will flow from you unto your family , make that commitment now, don't wait, he's talking to you ''

I see the elderly who are sick, give their pension because if they don't tithe their blessing ( healing ) won't come.

you always never had the full 10 percent? Well, that's not a true statement. You did but spent it. Get paid, set aside the 10th the first thing for God and do not touch it.

Tell this to a woman who has kids to feed, and bills to pay.

God blessed her with the job, not much money but it pays the bills and puts food on the table. If God gave it to her why would he take back some, even if it meant being short on food or gas to go to work.

She prayed for that job so she and her kids can eat, and God gave it to her....are you saying God is demanding some of the money back she asked him for that amounts to food.

Why would God take back what he blessed her with, if she gives to the church her own amount, why should she be accused of stealing from God, .

With the little food she has she bakes bread for the church..isn't that giving back..or must it be money

I think giving should be honest,

how do you judge a friend that gives you money because its the law...?

I say thanks he's doing so because of the law, such a faithful citizen

how do you judge a friend that gives freely under no law?

I say thank you he really cares about me, .. to give not knowing if I can return their kindness.

The question, Give God my 78.00 or pay the power bill. Not a hard choice. God gets his 78.00 and meet the Flintstones on Monday. Not once had the power been shut off. Not once has God failed to supply our needs.

It was your faith in God, not the power of tithing.

(Hebrews 11:1 KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I'm not here to play tennis or debate, so be blessed
 
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I just want to say that I appreciate all of you. As I read these replies I see how God has touch each of your life and how special you are. It is a blessing to know you even though it may be only through writing.

As for tithe, I can see how it can be abuse and misguided, and why some totally sick of it, but I also can see good in it. But please don't think one minute that I don't respect you or think of you less because of disagreement.

Your sister in Christ, Trish
 
Member
Brother Mike you said that you see tithing as being scriptural so lets look at the scriptures again because you seem to have overlooked some. You quoted Deuteronomy 14:22 and 14:28 but you left out verses 23, 24, 25, 26,and 27. I wonder why?

Do you know what they did with their tithe??? They ate it themselves. The preacher didn't eat it nor did the choir and neither did the bank that held the mortgage.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29
22*“You must set aside a tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23*Bring this tithe to the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored, and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. The purpose of tithing is to teach you always to fear the Lord your God. 24*Now the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored might be a long way from your home. 25*If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds and take the money to the place the Lord your God chooses. 26*When you arrive, use the money to buy anything you want—an ox, a sheep, some wine, or beer. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household. 27*And do not forget the Levites in your community, for they have no inheritance as you do.
28*“At the end of every third year bring the tithe of all your crops and store it in the nearest town. 29*Give it to the Levites, who have no inheritance among you, as well as to the foreigners living among you, the orphans, and the widows in your towns, so they can eat and be satisfied. Then the Lord your God will bless you in all your work.

Could be a problem. I look for other scriptures and compare as we are told to. Isa ch 28. compare Spiritual with Spiritual
.

How many times do the scriptures say Abraham tithed?

The men in the old Testament did not have the filling of the Great Holy Spirit, did not walk in God's Love, did not obey for the most part. So the law had been given. How much more should we being Spirit Filled Christians should not give God the tenth and honor Jesus with our first fruits of labor? under the ministry of our great Lord Jesus?

Seems to me your difficulty is a mixing of the two covenants.

Hebrews 8:13
13*When God speaks of a new covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and ready to be put aside.


If we are filled with the Spirit then we should be led by the Law???????

Come on now brother if we are filled with the Spirit we should also be led by the same Spirit not rules, regulations and laws. Laws are for those who fail to submit to the HolySpirit.
 
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I just want to say that I appreciate all of you. As I read these replies I see how God has touch each of your life and how special you are. It is a blessing to know you even though it may be only through writing.

As for tithe, I can see how it can be abuse and misguided, and why some totally sick of it, but I also can see good in it. But please don't think one minute that I don't respect you or think of you less because of disagreement.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

Trish I want to ask you something,. Do you think it pleases God when you are obedient to the tithe? Mind you I'm not talking about giving or sharing your provisions with others. I'm talking strictly the tithe.
 
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More Tithing

OK then. It's Sister rizen1 and not Brother. Sorry about that.

So God bless you Sister. Thank you for responding back.

You posted what I posted. FAITH....
You posted:

I turn on the tv..I see ministers saying.."If you want that family member off of drugs, God is saying send $1000 to this ministry.. When you sow that seed, blessing will flow from you unto your family , make that commitment now, don't wait, he's talking to you ''
I have big issues with this. Without faith it's IMPOSSIBLE to please God. How can I have faith to blindly give 1,000 dollars of my money, if it's all a new concept to me or I don't even know about this ministry?
What scripture do I have that money will get me healed or someone off drugs?
NONE!!!

God said he would multiply my seed sown. I reap what I sow. Nothing about healing or blessings coming to my family.

As for the part about the elder women that has kids to feed and bills to pay. Everyone can tithe a tenth. You just set that aside first. Jesus said seek the Kingdom of God first, not trying to get your needs meet first. He said if you do that..... then all the other things will be added unto you. Mat chapter 6. Not believing what he said would cause someone not to want to part with their money.


Php 4:19 And my God will liberally supply (fill to the full) your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus. (Amplified)


Phil 4:19 states that God will supply all your needs, according to what you can figure out in the natural or what you can see down the road and earn? NO, according to His riches and Glory. He supplies it though his ability, not what we can see in the natural.

If we go back to all the other post you will find that there is still a LAW.
The Law of sin and death still runs mighty through this earth today.

The whole tithe thing started with giving back to God what he has blessed us with. When giving in Deut 26 the tithe God even had them do a Faith confession about all the things He had done for them as they gave the tithe to the High Priest. The tithe was a condition on God's people to establish the covenant.

Jesus took away the law of sin and death.

The law was in place because those people could not tithe or do much anything pleasing to God because they were doing so through carnal flesh. God still had to keep the covenant supplied and the temples built so it Was MADE a law to tithe and give offerings.

Abraham walked by faith. I gave two scriptures where it told us he gave a tenth of everything He had of his spoils. He did not need all those laws to love and obey God. He walked by faith.

So the question. If we are blessed with faithful Abraham who was a tither. If Jesus is our new High Priest with a Covenant to establish. Then why not give God the first fruits of our increase with MONEY that the Church can easily use?

If Jesus was in agreement with keeping our money from God because we are poor. Then he would have stopped that widow from giving her two coins.

Jesus sat down opposite the treasury, and saw how the multitude cast money into the treasury. Many who were rich cast in much. A poor widow came, and she cast in two small brass coins, which equal a quadrans coin. He called his disciples to himself, and said to them, "Most certainly I tell you, this poor widow gave more than all those who are giving into the treasury, for they all gave out of their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on." Mark 12:41-44

This would have been a good time for Jesus to say; "Now, now dear sister. I know you need that more than God. Please keep your money, after all God understands your situation."

No, this woman's got her deed forever recorded in the eternal Word of God and you better believe God took good care of her.

This is an issue of revelation and faith.

If your faith is not there, then don't tithe, but I would seek God on this. ask if there is a higher and better level of faith and place in God. We can't stay the same, we must continue to grow.

God Bless
Jesus Is Lord.
 
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Jiggyfly

jiggyfly Thank you for the response Brother.

Were looking at the same scriptures. As for Abraham I gave two scriptures where he Tithed ALL his spoils. Good enough for me. This was before God extended the covenant to Moses and the bunch with that nice long law pinned on. We see God directly say what needs tithed and where to put that tithe. Granted most of that would be hard to do for someone living in a urban area today. The point is that there was a tenth year by year God wanted something done with. (Even if we could eat it.)

I still see the (PRINCIPLE) of giving a tenth of what you make to God for the supply of the Gospel. It's a better gospel, better covenant and Jesus is our High priest. To me it would seem that we should go above and establish the law of faith by loving God and honoring him with a tenth of what he has honored us with.

However Brother. we should not be in Bondage to what others believe or tell us. We have to have a good conscience toward God in our own walk with him. There is a lot of bad stuff from a lot of greedy bad preaching (Will a man Rob God?? Thieves!!!)to make guilty and force people to think they need to tithe.

I will say that there is some very good points backed by scriptures. I started out thinking that I can really give everyone some solid direction on tithing when I read your post. I come to find out I was challenged to go back and read and read. I also had to ask myself why do I really believe in tithing.
For me I see a principle of supply the Gospel and being faithful with the good God has done for us.
One good thing that has come out of this is that everyone believes God should get something. This has challenged me, and I have learned some things from this.

God Bless
Jesus Is Lord.
 
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wow, brother jiggy fly, great post very factual indeed. definitely the truth by word. however i do not see anything wrong if you do tithe as i stated before but i do think that you hit the nail right on top of the head with all the rules and regulations that have been put on people as to show man they are saved. we are supposed to show man that we are saved but by the leading of the holy spirit preaching the gospel and making deciples.
 
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Read the Scripture I quoted in this thread which you quoted me 2nd time in a row from two different threads. Tithing is Scriptural in OT and NT. Its not your "take" its what GOD says is.

http://www.talkjesus.com/showthread.php?t=145&page=2

God's Word makes no mistakes. The choice is clear. Notice that I say 'choice' instead of 'law'.

I choose tithing. My husband and I tithe joyfully and God gives us grace over all areas of our lives. It's not about the money. It's about our hearts and our willingness to give back what He already provided for us. Jehovah Rapha doesn't just provide financially.....He loves completely! No one else exists who can love us so and care for our every need.

It's not good to change the Word of God to serve our opinions or fears.
 
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alrighty then.

We keep bringing up that law V.S choice thing again.
Brother Mike mixes the old covenant with the new and the old had passed away not being perfect.

It's the way we interpret. I read the word of God very literal. I gave Scriptures that Abraham Tithed ALL. (No law yet I know, he walked by faith.) Cain and able tithed. (No law yet.) Jacob told God if God would take care of him he would give the tenth. (Sort of a scratch my back and I scratch your back thing.)

Dreamer you said.
It's not good to change the Word of God to serve our opinions or fears.

If you had an hour or so you should read everything I have written. I never changed the Word. Every place I used the Word it says what it says. The hang up comes from the interpretation of the Covenant we are under today.

Go re-read what I have written to keep this post smaller please.
The word covenant is a Two sided thing, not one sided. There are conditions for both sides. Not stealing, or committing adultery is not doing anything for God. Those are mentioned again in the New Testament for our own good. I already mentioned what part of the Law was abolished. We are free from all those traditions, strict terms of where and how and when to bring offering and tithe all the new feast, old feast, moon feast whatever.
Anything that would break that love command then we become guilty under the law. (James)

Not to try to make anyone feel bad, but God considered not bringing the tithe and offering to be theft. That's stealing. (Mal 3) God never changes and all he asked for was a tenth of what you make. That is not much at all considering what the Government DEMANDS of us.
So, In the Old Testament We are told not to steal. We see it a bad thing to do. It is mentioned many, many times. God is Mal 3 Calls holding the tithe stealing.

Does the word robing God take on a different meaning in Mal 3?
Has God changed when he said Robing Him was wrong? He never changes.
Not being under the Law, is it OK to steal or rob someone today?

Stealing breaks that Love commandment.

This is what I see in the Word. It does not even sound right to me to not Bless God with a tenth of everything he has done for us under this greater and better covenant.

God said Bring the tithes into the store house that there may be meat in my house and prove if I will not open the windows of heaven and bless you to the point you won't have room enough to receive. What sensible christian would not want to be blessed like this? Does God keep his word?

Everyone talks about not being under the law, making it sound as if we are free to do as we wish as Christians.
I never twisted scriptures. I agree with every scripture everyone has given. The issue is the agreement of tithing being carried over to the new covenant as it's not a DO NOT command but something we Do for God and support the reason our Lord was crucified for.

If you don't agree, then be convinced in your own heart. The only place mentioned in the NT about tithe is Jesus talking to the pharisees. He said continue to tithe. He did not mention money though. I am not going to nit pick and say well the new covenant has yet to be fulfilled at this point and Jesus never mentioned money. He told them to give the tenth so bless God, I am going to give the tenth.

God bless.
Jesus Is Lord.
 
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I use to tithe, I remember when I didn't have that full 10% how defeated I felt, ashame and just scared to lose my blessings for that week.


Yes, religionists have a tendency to manipulate the emotions of their adherents by attacking the well-being of their material comforts, physical health, and spiritual standing with God by using such sections of the Bible as Malachi, which was in reference to the Law, the very Law that nowhere defined the tithe as having anything to do with anyone's wages.

If I got sick or things were bad, I knew it was because I didn't tithe ( this is what is being preached by Ministers )

You're correct that it's being preached by men who don't teach the whole word of God on this issue.

It can be asked: Why would the God described within the pages of the Bible expect believers to support, from the primary portion of their giving, a building and operations from which those same same believers reap direct benefit? NT giving is exemplified as benefitting those who were in need, not something from which the givern himself benefitted.

Then I find scripture telling me what to do when I need something.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Mat 7:7-11

Well, didn't you know, religionists think they have license to add to the word of God whatever they fancy, especially when it comes to MONEY. Here in the west, we've popularized a Social-Financial Gospel.

If ye abide [remain] in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will [desire], and it shall be done unto [for] you. Jh 15:7

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever [whatever] ye desire [ask], when ye pray, believe that ye [do WU] receive them, and ye shall have them. Mk 11:24


I'm no bible scholar but I believe " Prayer" is our gateway to our blessings.
There's humility in prayer, its personal...and tithing sometimes is prideful..." I give my church X amount of dollars monthly '' , or Lord I give this ..now give me this.

You don't have to be a scholar to seperate out the falsehoods of pop-Christian dogmas and what the Bible really teaches.

We didn't work for our salvation so it's hard for me to believe I have to to work now to get and keep my blessings.

The services of a professional killer are for hire and sale, but God's blessings and salvation aren't for sale.

I'm not telling anyone not to tithe, if you believe thats your gateway to blessings and you believe you're being obedience..God bless you.

I once heard a preacher say that if he and his staff were really abusing the primary portion of the people's giving, then they alone were responsible before God for that abuse, not the giver's. Well, that may offer a false comfort to the less informed and tickle the ear, but it grates against the grain of truth as it exists in the word of God. Every example of NT giving shows us the primary giving being used for the purpose of meetin needs. Anyone can do the math (so to speak), and see that the preacher who said that is nowhere authorized by the Lord to remove from the giver anyone else's personal responsibility to ensure that the primary portion of his or her giving is in accordance with the spirit and examples of scripture.
 
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Can we conclude this yet?

Are we ready for a conclusion?
I am done posting on this. My conclusions.

I disagree with the conclusion. Reasons posted above. I am in the minority though on this forum and after all the reading this would seem to be the conclusion the forum has.

Conclusion:


1) Tithing as given by the law is part of the old covenant that is clearly done away with. Nobody could keep the laws of God under flesh and it was not working well. So a better Covenant with better promises was given to us in Christ Jesus.

Tithing a tenth of any monies was NEVER mentioned as being part of our new Covenant. Jesus referred to it once with the pharisees, but money was never mentioned and the world was still under the Old law at the time. Jesus had to do his whole ministry under that Old Covenant.

To say a Christian is under some law to give a tenth of their income is not scriptural. Not only can this cause quilt, but can also be an attempt to put a Christian under bondage that the Lord had delivered us from. Paul warned the Galatians about this, asking them who has bewitched you when starting up old Law practice.

The new Testament Christian should consider God and his work and give freely with a cheerful heart. They are by no means put in bondage to a certain percent, but worship the Lord with the means they have.
They may also give a tenth of all their money if they choose and are in no bondage to do so.They do it out of love for God.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
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