To us Jesus has died and has risen. To our divine Judge it is at every moment in the past, it is at every moment in the future and is is precisely now as I write this and precisely now as you read this. Just because you don't see the deep truths in His divine plan doesn't mean they aren't there. Reaching "logical to you" conclusions that contradict God's biblically stated character should trigger the fear and trembling part. In His kingdom we'll know in full and our presence there is 100% on Him.
Reconciled to God while enemies !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
- Start date
no, you've been lying about what i said for some time now.
i said everyone is tested in this lifetime, according to their abilities. -and in my experience, the younger you are, the more likely you are to choose to follow Jesus when you meet him in real life after death. but those evil children who harden their hearts and kill people starting as early as 12 years of age, well,. they won't accept forgiveness when they are killed.
https://abc7chicago.com/post/carjacking-chicago-11-year-old-suspect-police-cpd/11282024/
List of youngest killers - Wikipedia
there is no mechanism besides re-incarnation to get back to this earth again after "you" die.
from some points of view, the future has already happened as well. so i can see an argument for retroactive and what's the opposite of that, future salvation for people not yet created, they are already saved in a sense. it seems to be outside of time.
so trying to interpret paul's letters when, one of the very verses BF's argument rests on, starts with an "IF" we are reconciled to God, well,
yes, IF we were reconciled to God while we were sinners before we had faith.. well, then WHAT IF God made vessels for destruction that are not included in this "Reconciled to God" portion.
I don't believe Paul would make an argument involving a what if clause, if he didn't believe there are real people contained in that clause.
so yes i believe paul believed there are people who were made by God to be vessels for destruction. -I am not saying I believe that is true.
Nah, bright fame is reading you the english straight out of pauls letters.
I dont actually agree with him, because i think the english may be wrong. But, it is what the English says.
Also: yes.. the judgement is litterally Jesus cherry picking people for heaven.
Jesus is looking for fruit. He told us that much, in many parables.
The only hyper dispensationalist i know in real life: told me only acts chapt X through i forget, applied to us.
But he also confessed he knew God had given him wealth because he was called to feed the poor. And he had not. And he litterally told me God was asking him "where is your fruit? I called you to feed the poor".
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I certainly don't claim to understand the implications of our Creator/Judge being omnipresent in time and also outside of time. For some things, like perfect bible prophesy, being everywhere in spacetime actually makes 100% prophetic accuracy normal. For other things like knowing who is saved from even before He gives them life yet being fully good/just are tougher. That tension exposes our understanding in part. That word "before" is time based and I'm projecting my understanding of time on Him.
When God tells us that a thousand years is as one day and vice versa He's not giving us an equation. He's warning us not to project our experience/understanding of time onto Him. My objective when posting in such threads is to warn that our oh so limited understanding of time is a huge blind spot. Ignoring His warning about this gives us false confidence about our understanding of His salvation plan for us.
KingJ
Loyal
"You are lying about me, I don't teach that God sends children to ETERNAL PUNISHMENT''... Joe proceeds to explain that he knows of an 11 year old that deserves ETERNAL PUNSIHMENT.
Paul REBUKED Christians in 1 Cor 6:1-9 that could not judge matters better than the unsaved.
KingJ
Loyal
LMAO
There are 50 clear verses teaching us that God is IMPARTIAL.
You and BF change the definition of impartial to fit in with Calvinism.
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Just because God is omniscient and Rom 9:21 is in scripture DOES NOT MEAN GOD IS IMPARTIAL. You fail at reading every verse outside of Rom 9:21 and proceed to define the A-Z of God's character off of one single truth. ""God is omniscient, if He '''wanted to'''' He could create a vessel unto dishonor''.
You and I cannot grasp God. We need to stick to how SCRIPTURE DEFINES HIM.
God is omniscient + impartial Rom 2:11+ good Psalm 136:1 + righteous Psalm 145:17 + just Job 34:12 + light with no darkness 1 John 1:5.... all AT THE SAME TIME.
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You and BF have been corrected a million times and continue to COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY MISREPRESENT God.
Do you believe that just because you escape me slapping you through the screen you will escape a judgement day with God??????
Wake up!!! and STOP false teaching. Being TERRIFIED of God if you are a false teacher is Christianity 101.
Read the OP here a couple of times:
The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher
False teachers receive the HARSHEST warnings in scripture.
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You teach the lost that God loves and died for that He does not love and did not die for them.
You teach that God will send 11 year old's whose brain has not fully formed to eternal punishment.
Did you miss all the verses in scripture that say God is good, righteous, light with no darkness, just and extremely smart?
You portray God as someone who will sit a top a list of the most evil beings to ever exist.
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Calvinism portrays God as monstrously evil because it teaches that He favours a select few while withholding saving grace from the rest. Scripture is crystal clear that God is no respecter of persons.
Deut 4:2, Deut 13:1–5, Deut 18:20–22, Josh 1:7, Prov 30:5–6, Isa 8:20, Jer 23:16, Jer 23:25–32, Ezek 13:1–16, Matt 7:15–20, Matt 15:9, Matt 24:11, Matt 24:24, Mark 7:7–13, Acts 20:28–31, Rom 16:17–18, 2 Cor 2:17, 2 Cor 4:2, 2 Cor 11:13–15, Gal 1:6–9, Eph 4:14, Phil 3:2, Col 2:8, 1 Tim 1:3–7, 1 Tim 4:1–3, 1 Tim 6:3–5, 2 Tim 2:15–18, 2 Tim 3:13–17, 2 Tim 4:2–4, Titus 1:9–16, Heb 13:9, James 3:1, 2 Pet 2:1–3, 2 Pet 2:12–22, 1 John 2:18–27, 1 John 4:1–6, 2 John 7–11, Jude 3–4, Jude 12–19, Rev 2:2, Rev 2:14–16, Rev 2:20–24, Rev 3:9, Rev 22:18–19
The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher
We are well in agreement.
Ive had glimpses of the complexity of these matters myself that have changed my perspectives, particularly regarding prayers that influence other people's salvation.
I used to think my mom was saved because she told me asking Jesus to forgive her sins gives her peace. And her sins may be forgiven and she goes to heaven.
But i dont see evidence she is born again. I have seen a little evidence of spiritual supernatural knowledge, but that doesnt always come from God
So all good boys go to heaven?
Not everyone is a good boy.
KingJ
Loyal
You argument is so sick and demented. I hope all with kids know to not ever leave them with you!!
As Jesus says, the road is narrow and few find it
Brightfame52
Active
The Gospel Call of Reconciliation !
2 Cor 5:19-20
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
The Gospel Call of Reconciliation in 2 Cor 5:20 " be ye reconciled to God" in the greek this is a command, an imperative, and it is also in the passive voice, meaning quite frankly the command is instrumental in actually reconciling those the summons is issued to, and this command is not to all men without exception, as false teachers that lie, would have us believe, but it is only to those that belong to that world before in Vs 19, that had not its trespasses imputed to them, and hence a forgiven world, a redeemed world ! And the OT confirmation of this premise is here Isa 43:25;44:22
25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Or it can very well say, be reconciled to me Ye were reconciled to me by the Death of My Son Rom 5:10 !
Clearly Remission of sins is the foundation for the imperative, return unto me, which is but the OT counterpart for "be ye reconciled to God" and both appeals are made upon the doing away of their sins before God's Sight !
Those trespasses that were not imputed to that World in 2 Cor 5:19 were done away with by the Lamb of God Jn 1:29 ! And it is to them only, the Call goes out '"Be ye reconciled to God " ! 1
2 Cor 5:19-20
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
The Gospel Call of Reconciliation in 2 Cor 5:20 " be ye reconciled to God" in the greek this is a command, an imperative, and it is also in the passive voice, meaning quite frankly the command is instrumental in actually reconciling those the summons is issued to, and this command is not to all men without exception, as false teachers that lie, would have us believe, but it is only to those that belong to that world before in Vs 19, that had not its trespasses imputed to them, and hence a forgiven world, a redeemed world ! And the OT confirmation of this premise is here Isa 43:25;44:22
25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Or it can very well say, be reconciled to me Ye were reconciled to me by the Death of My Son Rom 5:10 !
Clearly Remission of sins is the foundation for the imperative, return unto me, which is but the OT counterpart for "be ye reconciled to God" and both appeals are made upon the doing away of their sins before God's Sight !
Those trespasses that were not imputed to that World in 2 Cor 5:19 were done away with by the Lamb of God Jn 1:29 ! And it is to them only, the Call goes out '"Be ye reconciled to God " ! 1
KingJ
Loyal
You don't believe that, you believe nobody finds it, you believe people are picked at random to enter.
Keep throwing the spagetti at the wall untill it sticks.
It requires their free will to accept his forgiveness..
You seem to preach a 99.9% universalist gospel where all dogs go to heaven.
But you forget the very Paul that you love. Says rapists murderers adulterers and a curious word "all" liars. Will go to hell.
Well, i can find about 30% of americans are serial adulterers, and it really skews the marriage statistics.
While 50% of marriages end in divorce, what they dont mention is when you track individuals, its 25?% of them that make half the divorces.
Of the non adulterers who marry, they have much better results than 50% the first time
Brightfame52
Active
2 Cor 5:19 Preaching Reconciliation !
2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
When Preaching the Word of reconciliation as the Apostle Paul did, it is imperative to Preach the Non Imputation of sin or trespasses unto those Christ died for and reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10, for in our text we read in 2 Cor 5:19 how was God reconciling the World [The Church] unto Himself, for it is put quite plainly " by not imputing their trespasses against them !
The word trespasses here is the greek word paraptōma and means:
to fall beside or near something
2) a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness
a) a sin, misdeed
Its also where we get the word fall away as here Heb 6:6
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
So when one for whom God reconciled falls away, that one or ones does not have that laid to their charge. All for whom Christ died did fall away at first in Adam, that was not laid to their charge.
Now understand, everyone of that World in 2 Cor 5:19 is freed or Justified from all sin, they have a clean slate before God, God views them, even as sinners and dead in sin, He views them with no sin charges against them Rom 8:33 ! He views them as the blessed man here Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
The word man here is used generically to denote a group of both men and women, and we can very well understand Vs 8 to read this way:
8 Blessed is the world as in 2 Cir 5:19 to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Such a world is freed or Justified from the legal charge of sin before God ! 1
2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
When Preaching the Word of reconciliation as the Apostle Paul did, it is imperative to Preach the Non Imputation of sin or trespasses unto those Christ died for and reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10, for in our text we read in 2 Cor 5:19 how was God reconciling the World [The Church] unto Himself, for it is put quite plainly " by not imputing their trespasses against them !
The word trespasses here is the greek word paraptōma and means:
to fall beside or near something
2) a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness
a) a sin, misdeed
Its also where we get the word fall away as here Heb 6:6
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
So when one for whom God reconciled falls away, that one or ones does not have that laid to their charge. All for whom Christ died did fall away at first in Adam, that was not laid to their charge.
Now understand, everyone of that World in 2 Cor 5:19 is freed or Justified from all sin, they have a clean slate before God, God views them, even as sinners and dead in sin, He views them with no sin charges against them Rom 8:33 ! He views them as the blessed man here Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
The word man here is used generically to denote a group of both men and women, and we can very well understand Vs 8 to read this way:
8 Blessed is the world as in 2 Cir 5:19 to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Such a world is freed or Justified from the legal charge of sin before God ! 1