Active
Yes John did experience a thing; he saw the Spirit ascend from heaven and rest upon Jesus like a dove.
Questions/Answers on Spiritual Gifts
Member
What is the purpose of teaching against false teachers
when Jesus commanded to let them alone for they are the blind leaders of the blind to lead the blind.
Would not this make you a false teacher? Just wondering?
Loyal
Hello @Christ4Ever,
Please forgive my lack of grace.
Thank you for all your efforts.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Loyal
'And many other signs
.. truly did Jesus
.... in the presence of His disciples,
...... which are not written in this book:
But these are written,
.. that ye might believe
.... that Jesus is the Christ,
...... the Son of God;
and that believing
ye might have life through His name.'
(Joh 20:30-31)
Hello there, @Christ4Ever, @Waggles, @SageBrush, @watertolive, @Garee, @B-A-C and Co.,,
How wonderful these words, written by John are, aren't they? He describes all the miraculous events recorded in his gospel as 'signs': and gives the reason for their inclusion,' ... that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God'; and the desired purposed, '... that believing ye might have life through His name.' The word of God itself silences all debate doesn't it.
Praise God!?
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
.. truly did Jesus
.... in the presence of His disciples,
...... which are not written in this book:
But these are written,
.. that ye might believe
.... that Jesus is the Christ,
...... the Son of God;
and that believing
ye might have life through His name.'
(Joh 20:30-31)
Hello there, @Christ4Ever, @Waggles, @SageBrush, @watertolive, @Garee, @B-A-C and Co.,,
How wonderful these words, written by John are, aren't they? He describes all the miraculous events recorded in his gospel as 'signs': and gives the reason for their inclusion,' ... that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God'; and the desired purposed, '... that believing ye might have life through His name.' The word of God itself silences all debate doesn't it.
Praise God!?
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Active
yes they are beautiful words. I was just reading those scriptures last night myself.
And there was instances where virtue went out from Him and they were all healed.
imagine...5000 men, beside women and children...and they were all healed, all at once.
What a beautiful moment...and loud moment this must have been.
All praise glory and honor be unto God. Amen
Loyal
'God also bearing them witness,
both with signs and wonders,
and with divers miracles,
and gifts of the Holy Ghost,
according to His own will?
(Heb 2:4)
Hello again, @Christ4Ever, @Waggles, @SageBrush, @watertolive, @Garee, @B-A-C and Co.,,
Man brought gifts to the Lord Jesus, of gold, frankincense and myrrh (Matthew 2:11) which were for this life only. God gives us gifts that have an eternal benefit, and minister to our spirit, 'to profit withal' (1 Cor. 12:7), and for the mutual edification of the believing company.
'Now concerning spiritual gifts, ...
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
.. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
.... to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
...... To another faith by the same Spirit;
........ to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
.......... To another the working of miracles;
............ to another prophecy;
.............. to another discerning of spirits;
................ to another divers kinds of tongues;
.................. to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit,
dividing to every man severally as He will.'
(1 Corinthians 12:1, 4-11)
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come,
then that which is in part shall be done away.'
(1 Corinthians 13:8)
'And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity.'
(1 Corinthians 13:13)
'In the law it is written,
"With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people;
and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord."
Wherefore tongues are for a sign,
not to them that believe,
but to them that believe not: '
(1 Corinthians 14:21-22a)
... 'but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not,
but for them which believe.'
(1 Corinthians 14:22b)
Praise God!
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
both with signs and wonders,
and with divers miracles,
and gifts of the Holy Ghost,
according to His own will?
(Heb 2:4)
Hello again, @Christ4Ever, @Waggles, @SageBrush, @watertolive, @Garee, @B-A-C and Co.,,
Man brought gifts to the Lord Jesus, of gold, frankincense and myrrh (Matthew 2:11) which were for this life only. God gives us gifts that have an eternal benefit, and minister to our spirit, 'to profit withal' (1 Cor. 12:7), and for the mutual edification of the believing company.
'Now concerning spiritual gifts, ...
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
.. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
.... to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
...... To another faith by the same Spirit;
........ to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
.......... To another the working of miracles;
............ to another prophecy;
.............. to another discerning of spirits;
................ to another divers kinds of tongues;
.................. to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit,
dividing to every man severally as He will.'
(1 Corinthians 12:1, 4-11)
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come,
then that which is in part shall be done away.'
(1 Corinthians 13:8)
'And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity.'
(1 Corinthians 13:13)
'In the law it is written,
"With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people;
and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord."
Wherefore tongues are for a sign,
not to them that believe,
but to them that believe not: '
(1 Corinthians 14:21-22a)
... 'but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not,
but for them which believe.'
(1 Corinthians 14:22b)
Praise God!
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Loyal
Yes, Praise God! @watertolive,
The air must have been filled with joyful praise, sobs of thankfulness and grateful gladness!!
What impresses me this morning, looking through the list of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians, is the simple and unassuming nature of many of them, e.g., faith, hope, love, a word of knowledge, a word of wisdom and so on. The one who washes the dishes and cleans the building after a meeting of believers for fellowship and Bible reading, is equally gifted, to do it without murmuring and with a thankful heart. The gift of tongues, was not edifying to the membership unless it was accompanied by the gift of interpretation, but the gift of love would be of benefit to the whole company.
'Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us,
whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering:
or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation:
he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity;
he that ruleth, with diligence;
he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.'
(Rom 12:6)
* Yet more evidences of simple, unassuming gifts that glorify God.
Praise His Holy Name!
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
Active
yes a different kind of parable saying the same in the ned of the matter . Yes he also saw a lying spirit moved from below . Mathew 4 The father gave his prophet Jesus three times words to rebuke the father of lies . .as it is writen, again and again
Loyal
' ... given to hospitality.'
(Romans 12:13)
' ... given to hospitality'
(1Timothy 3:2 )
' But a lover of hospitality,'
(Titus 1:8)
Though not a gift of the spirit, and expected particularly of a 'Bishop', hospitality was something vital during those days of the early church. I have reason to be grateful for the consistency of an open house, where meetings were held, and spiritual council and comfort given, and all thanksgiving met with a smile, and the words, 'It is a joy'. No one can truly estimate the comfort and spiritual edification that can come from a Christian family, whose home is open to receive visitors, and to give hospitality, to provide a lift in time of need, or the offer of a cup of tea and a welcome chat., or even a bed for the night.
A Christian family, for whom Christ is the centre of their existence is beyond price.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
(Romans 12:13)
' ... given to hospitality'
(1Timothy 3:2 )
' But a lover of hospitality,'
(Titus 1:8)
Though not a gift of the spirit, and expected particularly of a 'Bishop', hospitality was something vital during those days of the early church. I have reason to be grateful for the consistency of an open house, where meetings were held, and spiritual council and comfort given, and all thanksgiving met with a smile, and the words, 'It is a joy'. No one can truly estimate the comfort and spiritual edification that can come from a Christian family, whose home is open to receive visitors, and to give hospitality, to provide a lift in time of need, or the offer of a cup of tea and a welcome chat., or even a bed for the night.
A Christian family, for whom Christ is the centre of their existence is beyond price.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Loyal
Yes the word of God is indeed truth, but alas does not of itself silence all debate as many Christians choose to wrestle and argue with the scriptures.
"signs" or evidence of the power of God is the distinguishing hallmark of the gospel of salvation.
It applied to the saving of the children of Israel from Egypt and their journey to the promised land.
It equally applies to the saving of children of the nations from the world and our journey to the promised land.
In a world of many existing religions with their various sacrifices, doctrines and manifestations of spiritual works it was needful for the true gospel to manifest signs and wonders from the TRUE God of salvation to distinguish
the truth from the many falsehoods that abounded at the time.
The gospel did not come about in a vacuum - the gospel came to supplant already existing false religions.
And so it is even today the same need for the signs and wonders - the manifestation of the power of God - to reestablish the original one and only gospel from amongst a plethora of other gospels.
Why do Pentecostal disciples enjoy signs - 'that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God' and 'that believing ye might have life through His name.'
The sign of speaking in tongues - praying in the Holy Spirit - a spiritual God given prayer language that allows a believer to pray directly to God without the need for any understanding of the natural mind.
This truly is the great equalizer that allows ALL believers to have EQUAL access to the throne of grace - no personal attributes or natural talent gives any advantage to praying to God in the Spirit.
For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. Ephesians 2:18
To claim that some receive the gift of tongues and that others do not is to make God a respecter of persons and an author of confusion.
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, 1Corinthians 14:33
Confusion is the product of people promoting a multitude of other gospels.
Loyal
But these gifts of the Holy Spirit only operate openly and fully in Pentecostal congregations.
They are not manifest in non-Pentecostal churches.
Loyal
Not in churches that deny to evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and do not manifest the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit.
How can churches be a "believing company" if you do not believe what is written in your Bibles?
I was a Roman Catholic and was challenged out in the street by evangelists who opened up their Bibles and went through the scriptures with me.
I was shocked at how different the teachings of the scriptures were to the teachings I was receiving as a practicing Catholic.
I was challenged but unable to let go of a lifetime of Roman Catholic upbringing to embrace a new gospel.
BUT I prayed to Jesus and asked Jesus if this new gospel with its speaking in tongue was the truth and had his approval.
Jesus worked mightily in my life and brought me to a Pentecostal fellowship where I heard the preaching of sound doctrine.
I got baptized by full immersion and confessed my faith, but nothing much happened to dramatically change my life for the better.
But I would go out to the prayer room and pray (ask) for the Holy Spirit to dwell in me.
And one Sunday afternoon the Holy Spirit came upon me with power and revelation and I spoke in tongues as Jesus promised that believers would.
I enjoyed my first wonderful miracles of healing and transformation that very afternoon.
I believed in the scriptures written and trusted in Jesus and I was born from above in the exact manner of the first believers.
Acts 10:46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Acts 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts 1:8
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Moderator
Staff Member
Dear Brother,
I heard of the following years ago, and would not be surprised that it doesn't happen in other denominations, or non-denominational churches as well. It probably is not advertised.
I thought you might find this interesting to read.
Speaking in Tongues at Mass | EWTN
EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.
www.ewtn.com
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. I don't usually reference/add Catholic items here on Talk Jesus.
Loyal
Yes I am aware of people receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues in non-Pentecostal churches.
But there is confusion and like the Corinthians much disorderly worship.
In these churches some people are "spiritual" and are especially blessed in having this manifestation, but alas the majority have not this "gift."
There is no understanding of sound doctrine and no accord with the epistles to the Corinthians.
Such persons are square pegs in round holes. They do not belong in non-Pentecostal faiths.
Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;
When I left my Roman Catholic church a woman who bumped into me at a local supermarket asked me where had I been?
When I explained how I had been born from above by the Holy Spirit and could pray in tongues, she replied that she could also' and that others in my local church could also pray in tongues.
She invited me to come along to the 'Green Room' behind St. Augustine's church building on a Wednesday night and pray to Mary in tongues.
No thankyou. I prefer my worship and faith to be done decently and in order in compliance with scripture.
"It must be noted that the Brazilian bishops have a generally positive view of the Charismatic Renewal, and a significant number participate in charismatic Masses.
The renewal is considered as being especially attuned and appealing to a wide swath of Brazilian society and is credited as helping to stem the haemorrhaging of Catholics toward Pentecostal sects."
Confusion reigns when faith and doctrine are muddled in order to preserve the teachings of Rome over the teachings of God.
Fish belong in water - living water.
Moderator
Staff Member
Dear Brother,
It was used only as an example. You are so on the defensive on this, that it blinds you that the Gifts of the Spirit are not limited to the Pentecostal's of which I am currently one in attendance, in understanding or practice. That it may not be publicized doesn't limit the Holy Spirit movement in and through believers in Christ Jesus.
Hopefully, you were able to communicate to that woman correct understanding in love and grace even though it may not have had much effect on her, but a seed planted is necessary for God to getting it watered and growing!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
Active
Just another "pentehostile"
One doesn't have to be concerned about there being an "Interpreter', since if one has been burdened to speak in a tongue in a meeting, somebody else will already have been burdened to interpret.
Active
Signs as evidence of power made Jesus into a circus seal .Saying in effect. Work of miracle perform some magic show us a sign and then when we see it with our own eyes then we will believe the gang from Missouri “seeing is believing”
We walk by Christ’s faith as it is written the unseen things of God. . no sign was given.
Isaiah 8 informs us. . . if mankind does not speak according to both the law and prophets or the law and its outward testimony there is no gospel light of on their path
The law. . .John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Its testimony. . .John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
No such thing as a sign gift.(self-edifying I did it, it proves it ) Spiritual gift not seen yes.. . . it is the light on the path
Loyal
Hello @Garee, and @watertolive,
Re. hospitality:-
'Beloved, thou doest faithfully
.. whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;
.... Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church:
...... whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort,
........ thou shalt do well:
.......... Because that for His name's sake they went forth,
............ taking nothing of the Gentiles.
We therefore ought to receive such,
.. that we might be fellow-helpers to the truth.
.... I wrote unto the church:
...... but Diotrephes,
........ who loveth to have the preeminence among them,
.......... receiveth us not.
Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth,
.. prating against us with malicious words:
.... and not content therewith,
...... neither doth he himself receive the brethren,
........ and forbiddeth them that would,
.......... and casteth them out of the church.
Beloved, follow not that which is evil,
.. but that which is good.
.... He that doeth good is of God:
...... but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.'
(3 John 1:5-11)
' Let brotherly love continue.
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers:
for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.'
(Heb 13:1-2)
* It is an outpouring of brotherly love, which is a spiritual gift.
Praise God!
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Loyal
'And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,
and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded,
because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another,
Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia,
and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene,
and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians,
we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another,
What meaneth this?
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.'
(Act 2:4-13)
Hello @B-A-C,
Why were the disciples speaking in tongues?
* Because, in the words of those who heard, 'We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God'.
God wanted everyone to hear what He had to tell them, and that necessitated that they speak in the languages of those who were present at that time.
* The response of Peter, was to the question, 'What meaneth this?" and the mocking of those who asserted that they were all, 'full of new wine', not to the tongue speaking itself. The tongue speaking was only the means to an end. It also gave audio witness to the fact that a work of God had taken place, as is seen in Acts 10:45.
* It is also spoken of as indicative of spiritual childhood, and not of full growth. (1 Corinthians 13:12-13).
'Charity never faileth:
but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come,
then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child:
but when I became a man, I put away childish things.'
(1Cor. 13:8-13)
'And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity.'
(1Cor. 13:13)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Loyal
NO
This is the first operation of the gift of interpretation.
120 people in an upper room ALL speaking at the same time some dozen languages.
And yet we are told that the multitudes outside of this building (thousands of people) that each person separately heard with distinction what was being spoken in the upper room in their own language.
A wondrous miracle to say the least. And clearly the first working of tongues followed by interpretation.
Right from the beginning - the very first church meeting - the pattern is set by God > various kinds of tongues followed by interpretation and then prophecy [Peter's inspired speech].
Acts 2:4 And all were filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:6 And when this voice was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because each heard them speaking in his own language. (16 languages are listed)
Act 2:12 And all were amazed, and perplexed, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 But others mocking said [that] They are filled with new wine. > why the scoffing about drunkenness if the 120 were only speaking in human languages? Because 120 all speaking in tongues at the same time
would have sounded very confusing and like "babble" before the gift of interpretation permeated the multitude.
Acts 2:18 Yea and on my bondmen and on my bondmaids in those days Will I pour forth of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. > which is what Peter did.
The gift of tongues followed by the gift of interpretation followed by the gift of prophecy all on day one. And fully explained later in 1Corinthians.
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