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Question regarding Commands of Jesus

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:21)

Loyal Member
@Life,
For those that believe you don't have to do any works to obtain life. What does these scriptures say to you?

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.
Galatians 6:8
For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Galatians 6:9
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

To me they say - whatever "work" a person does will determine their end result. If a man sows (which means work) to his flesh or the world, he will receive and be rewarded for the work that he's done. Sowing to the world/flesh a person will be rewarded with corruption through death.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8:12
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Romans 8:13
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

If a person "works" and sows to the Spirit, they will reap and receive eternal life. Eternal Life is based on what a person does in obedience to Jesus Christ. If a believer is not obedient they will not obtain Eternal Life. Hebrews 5:9 has not been able to be explained away. We must "OBEY" Jesus to obtain eternal life.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Faith without works is dead (Jam. 2:17, 20). We must be a doer (worker) of God's word without giving up. We must not get tiered or become weary in well doing in order to reap and gain eternal life. If we don't endure and we get weary, we will die. It's one or the other - life or death. Continue in well doing or give up.

James 1:22
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
 
Loyal Member
To me they say - whatever "work" a person does will determine their end result. If a man sows (which means work)
Greetings,
Sow means to plant.


alatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Plant, Feed, Water
Its that simple
We either feed and nourish our old nature or our new nature.

Blessings
 
Loyal Member
@Wired4Fishen,
Greetings,
Sow means to plant.
Plant, Feed, Water
Its that simple
We either feed and nourish our old nature or our new nature.
Blessings
Are you telling me that a person that "PLANTS" orchards and/or "gardens" at their homes are not working?

1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are "laborers" together with God: you are God's husbandry, you are God's building.

G4904 (laborers)
συνεργός [SUNERGO/S] {synergós} \soon-er-gos'\
from a presumed compound of 4862 and the base of 2041; a co-laborer, i.e. coadjutor:--companion in labour, (fellow-)helper(-labourer, -worker), labourer together with, workfellow.

G1091 (husbandry)
γεώργιον [GEW/RGION] {geṓrgion} \gheh-ore'-ghee-on\
neuter of a (presumed) derivative of 1092; cultivable, i.e. a farm:--husbandry.

2 Corinthians 6:1
We then, as "WORKERS" together with God, beseech you also that you receive not the grace of God in vain.

John 15:2
Every branch in me that bears not fruit God takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, God purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Whose responsibility is it to ABIDE" in the vine and bring forth or bear fruit? What must a believer "DO" to "ABIDE" in the vine? A believer must partake of Jesus by putting on His word and walking in it (Joh. 15:9, 10). By doing this the believer is eating Christ flesh and drinking His blood; they are partaking of Christ.

John 6:54
Whoso "eats" my flesh, and "drinks" my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

This scripture alone tells you you must "DO SOMETHING" in order to have life. If you don't "eat" Christ flesh and "drink" His blood you will not be raised up at the last day.

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

This scripture is a warning to the Church of Christ by telling them to take heed to what God did to Israel for their disobedience in their works; or lack of work. Israel didn't "DO" what God commanded them so they didn't enter into the Promise land.

Hebrews 3:15
While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Israel didn't enter into the Promise Land because of their "works" which would have stemmed from their lack of faith. Faith without works is dead.

Deuteronomy 32:20
And God said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Abraham received the promise of "Eternal Life" because of his "WORKS" through his faith.

Genesis 22:16
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Genesis 22:17
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
 
Loyal Member
I am encouraged by how this conversation is progressing. It seems @Chad4Him you are able to see the need to do good works as a fruit of being saved. That is good. However, there still seems to be some disconnect with regards to works connecting to salvation. I will elaborate.

The main argument against not wanting to do good works is because there is no amount of good works that can save us. This I believe is true. But, and listen closely to this, just because works doesn't save us, that doesn't justify us not trying to obey Jesus and do good works. I think this is the main issue that people are fighting against (at least the side that is arguing disobeying Jesus because He did it all for us on the cross).

This teaching that obeying Jesus, doing good works, following the commands, or whatever you want to call it, is somehow seen as "working your way to heaven" breeds lawlessness (disobedience) to Jesus. As Jesus teaches, we will know a good tree by their fruit's (7:15-20). By objectively looking at the fruit of this teaching, I can confidently say that this teaching produces bad fruit because it causes us to find every justification to not obey Jesus, and obey anybody else except Jesus.

I will give the authenticity of this claim right now, and those reading this (and those in the future) will be able to see how Jesus' words really are sharper than any two edged sword.

I will just give one teaching of Jesus, and then I will finish it by saying, "okay, this is what Jesus says we must do, so let's do it."
Matthew 6:24, "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." Okay, can we the lesson? Yes? Good. Now obey it because Jesus said to. If you can't see the lesson, then I will explain.

Jesus is giving us an ultimatum; either we serve (work) for God, or we serve (work) for money. We CANNOT do both. Practically speaking, if anybody is working for money, then they are not serving God. Pretty simple, eh?

Oh I can hear the keys being pressed from all the way over here of people writing to tell me, "NOOOO. Jesus didn't mean to stop working for money. I know that's what it says but He means something else." Slow down a bit and continue reading, please? I know the first place people will turn to is 2 Thessolonians 3:10," Paul says that anyone who does not work should not eat!" See paul worked for money so that means I can! Pause. Is Paul the one you are following? Did Paul die for you, or did Jesus? Second, Paul never said that peole should work for money. Read it again. Money is not included. Why did you insert that word? "Well what did He mean by work then?" Good question! Simple. People lived together 24/7 in Christian community (Acts 2:34-35). People at that time were probably joining just for the free ride, free food, nice people, not because of their love for Jesus. So, Paul wanted the leaders to challenge those people to help out and carry their own weight. If they started helping out, then great! If they didn't, then they wouldn't eat. This would cuase these people to leave, since that is why they were following the group anyways (i.e., for the free food). Similar to the crowd Jesus rebuked for following him only for the bread, not because of Jesus. Does that make sense?

Ahhh, but Paul was a tentmaker I can hear you say? Yes, Yes he was. Did he make any money for it? Hmmm... If he did, then he was disobeying Jesus and started to work for money. Paul backslid. IMPOSSIBLE I hear you say. Well, no. Not really. Paul was human. He is fallible, so it makes sense that he would make mistakes. Well don't take my word for it, look at how he reacted once Timothy came to visit him at His little "tent business".

Acts 18," So, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and worked; for by occupation they were tentmakers. 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
(Notice what happens here) When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit." Pause. What compelled Paul in the spirit? Why did the presence of Timothy and Silas suddenly get Paul to go and preach to the Jews in a way that caused them to accuse him of blaspheme? IF Paul was 'reasoning' with them through the scriptures on the Sabbath before Timothy came, then he would have been kicked out long time ago." It continues, "and testified to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ. " If he was preaching that Jesus was the Christ from the beginning, then why did they suddenly get offended? Is it possible Paul compromised a bit so he wouldn't get sent out, so you can stay at his little tent making business? Is the picture becoming more clear how Paul backslid when he started making tents? (Will this justification work on God when we stand before Him and He asks us," What did we do with His Son's teachings?" And we reply, "well Paul was a tentmaker so I felt it was okay to disobey your son's command about working for money." Remember, by our words we are justified, and by ouor words we will be condemned) Furthermore when Timothy came, Paul realized he was doing the wrong thing, stopped, and went to proclaim the true gospel. Notice it doesn't say he went back to working on tents, does it? He left and continued his work that he left off when he backslid.

I know there are other bible writers that talks about working for money is a good thing and that God wants us all to prosper. I don't really want to go through every one, I just brought these two up because I know they are the ones going through people's mind as they read Jesus' teaching about quitting our jobs for Him.

The main questions that has to be asked is this, "are those other Bible writers the Word of God (NOTE: The Bible is NOT the Word of God. Shocking I know. Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1 & Revelation 19:13). If I have to choose who I will listen too, then I will go with Jesus everytime. Who will you side with?) Did the other bible writers die for you? The most important one: Why am I trying so hard to find ways not to obey what Jesus taught us to do?

I pray God will open the eyes and hearts of everyone that reads this message of that I believe God is wanting me to share with you all, and for you to soak in the spirit of Jesus that are behind these words.

For those of you that can get pass Matthew 6:24 and are willing to hear a further revelation to that scripture. Then please DM and we can discuss this on a more personal level.

I am not all that keen to debate this, since I know from experience that it won't lead to unity, only disunity will follow.

I pray that everyone that reads this will at least pray to God about this before they respond and see if any of what I shared here is true. If you do this, then I am confident that God will back up the words in this letter.

In Peace and Love



In regard to your comment in paragraph "The main questions that has to be asked is this," are those other bible writers the Word of God. God's Word was inspired by Him -- Every thing is His Word. Each writer of every book was inspired of God through the Holy Spirit to write it. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was With God and the Word Was God." Rev. 19:13 " He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is the Word of god."

Do understand the concept of the context of verses?!
 
Active Member
I know there are other bible writers that talks about working for money is a good thing and that God wants us all to prosper. I don't really want to go through every one, I just brought these two up because I know they are the ones going through people's mind as they read Jesus' teaching about quitting our jobs for Him.

The main questions that has to be asked is this, "are those other Bible writers the Word of God (NOTE: The Bible is NOT the Word of God. Shocking I know. Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1 & Revelation 19:13). If I have to choose who I will listen too, then I will go with Jesus everytime. Who will you side with?) Did the other bible writers die for you? The most important one: Why am I trying so hard to find ways not to obey what Jesus taught us to do?
Was busy yesterday so couldn't respond - but a quick thought.

If I come across any doctrine that requires me to ignore or discredit certain parts of the Bible, that is a huge red flag to me. A sign of true doctrine is if it lines up with the whole Bible.

Yes, Jesus is the Word made Flesh. But the entire Bible is the Word of God.
 
Loyal Member
@Hiswillbedone -- We Are to work for our living -- not relying on others as long as we're able To work. But God does Not promise prosperity. I believe He promises to Bless our efforts. Being blessed came come in many forms. I don't think there's Anything in God's Word about quitting our jobs 'for Him'. Our Willingness to give 'everything' for God Is important. The foreign mission field is Very demanding. Most of 'those' countries Don't have much of anything material. And going through Bible college/ seminary is prep For going over seas Is expensive. Been there. Not foreign missions, but Bible college and year of seminary. My late- husband.

Doctrine -- the study Of -- Is what the major Bible doctrines Are. And there Are many doctrines taught in Scripture. God's Word.

And, yes, the entire Bible IS the Word of God.
 
Loyal Member
I don't have time to go back trying to find it, but it needs to be corrected that not all sin is known by the Law of Moses. All through Genesis are plenty of revelations of sin without the Law which came centuries later.

The vital factor of salvation is the power of Jesus' blood. That trumps all works. That blood is the determining factor. But the blood works only for those believing by faith. God's kind of faith. That kind of faith generates Godly works like His were for creation of the world. Good works. That's evidence of that faith of His we must live by the words of our mouth. Christians will face judgment on the basis of the blood of Jesus, our faith in that work of Jesus unto being declared rigtheous and justified before holy God, and will be rewarded according to resulting good works meet for that position in Him. Those having but faith in the blood will be saved, though like a branch saved out of the fire, when found that all his works are burned away like the dead leaves on that branch. The live branches of Christ will be found entire with the fruit of the Spirit intact, made rulers of much.

Back to
Romans 3:26-28 (KJV)
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

No person living by the Law was justified by the Law. Even Jesus had to be justified by God through faith at his resurrection. The reason is the Law was not of faith, but works. It established a huge list of sins definitions Israel was required to obey to receive the blessings of the Law. Failing in that the reward was cursing by the Law. The Law did not teach living by faith. Men of God learned that and lived that aside from the Law, by the hand of God showing them to do mighty works apart from the knowledge of sins by the Law.

The work that we are justified by is based on Jesus' death, the supreme work God accepted, Once Jesus died to the Law he was freed from the curse of it, so that by his resurrection that work emerged for the basis of believers best being living sacrifices, imputed/declared righteous by God, not at all made righteous by any work, but justified (positionally) in Christ by His proclamation by His grace. Justification is imputed righteousness, So live that and be found always desiring to do good works whether understanding what the Lord did for you, or not.
 
Loyal Member
Are you telling me that a person that "PLANTS" orchards and/or "gardens" at their homes are not working?
Nope sure am not but then again myself or the scriptures that were quoted are not talking about it either.

Truly thank you for posting all the Scriptures in order to make your point But the funny thing about it is you can take scriptures out of context and make them say what ever you wish.

See to Rightly divide the word of God we must do so with other scriptures. This means you can use a page full of scriptures to make a point BUT if in doing so you violate the slightest portion of a scripture your use is in error.

Another thing is that the old covenant is being mixed in with new covenant and it is distorting the truth of the New Testament.

Also another way to get off in a ditch is to begin to take words from scripture and give them new meanings such as dictionaries including Greek and Hebrew as you try and understand Gods Word intellectually.

Sow equals plant
Everything about Gods Word revolves around seed.

Blessings in Christ
 
@sue D and @Chad4Him - No where in the Bible does it claim to be the Word of God. The main fault of this doctrine is that it makes everybody else of the same or greater importance than Jesus. As what you and others are doing to say that we don't have to follow Jesus' teaching to stop working for money. Our faith is not in a book, if that is where people are putting their faith then they are building their house on sand. As for my house, we shall trust in the Lord, Jesus. HE is alive and can be seen through more than just the Bible. Even then, people refuse to accept His words as is clearly written, rather go to someone else in the Bible to negate what Jesus taught. Notice all the reply's to my last questions were all found outside the gospels and none from what Jesus said.

The Bible is inspired, but it is not infallible. Paul says all scri[tures were inspired by God... Yet the Bible wasn't around when He wrote that, was it? Again this doctrine is mainly used to knock off what Jesus taught and promote a lesser Bible writer. Don't fall for this trap.

@sue d - You said there is no place in scripture that Jesus said for us not to work for money. What do you read when you read Matthew 6:24? (John 6:27)

It is amazing to me that most people think that if they stop working for money, they will suddenly be a burden on others. I guess God's promise in matthew 6:25-33 isn't valid or else people would be taking Jesus at His word.
In peace
 
Loyal Member
@Dovegiven,
I don't have time to go back trying to find it, but it needs to be corrected that not all sin is known by the Law of Moses. All through Genesis are plenty of revelations of sin without the Law which came centuries later.
Yes Dovegiven, there were plenty of sins in the world before the law - and scripture teaches us why.

Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Sin was in the world before Jesus came; I've never taught differently. God "did not" impute sin unto those people because there was no law. God did not account their sins unto them; but it didn't stop God from punishing the the people. God destroyed the world because of the actions of the people's sins without the law. How do you explain that? It has nothing to do with the punishment being taken away, it was sin that caused the problem and separation from God. This is why the prophecy was - Jesus will come and "Take Away sin."

John 1:29
The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.

1 John 3:5
And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

If Jesus took away your sins through His blood - then cleansed you of your sins, past, past, present and future you should not have them.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and "WASHED" us from our sins in his own blood,

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such "WERE" some of you: but you are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The vital factor of salvation is the power of Jesus' blood. That trumps all works. That blood is the determining factor. But the blood works only for those believing by faith. God's kind of faith. That kind of faith generates Godly works like His were for creation of the world. Good works. That's evidence of that faith of His we must live by the words of our mouth. Christians will face judgment on the basis of the blood of Jesus, our faith in that work of Jesus unto being declared rigtheous and justified before holy God, and will be rewarded according to resulting good works meet for that position in Him. Those having but faith in the blood will be saved, though like a branch saved out of the fire, when found that all his works are burned away like the dead leaves on that branch. The live branches of Christ will be found entire with the fruit of the Spirit intact, made rulers of much.
Back to
Romans 3:26-28 (KJV)
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
I can appreciate your thoughts, but you don't believe what you've written. If you did you would confess that Jesus took away your sins and cleansed you of them by His blood. You would also believe by His stripes you were healed.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness:by whose stripes ye were healed.

No person living by the Law was justified by the Law. Even Jesus had to be justified by God through faith at his resurrection. The reason is the Law was not of faith, but works. It established a huge list of sins definitions Israel was required to obey to receive the blessings of the Law. Failing in that the reward was cursing by the Law. The Law did not teach living by faith. Men of God learned that and lived that aside from the Law, by the hand of God showing them to do mighty works apart from the knowledge of sins by the Law.
You said no person living by the law was justified by the law. The word "UNDER" means justified by; they are used interchangeably. The Schoolmaster was the law that justified Israel. They were only justified by the law until Jesus came at which point man would no longer be justified by the law.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under/justified by the law, but under/justified by grace.

Galatians 3:23
But before faith (Jesus) came, we were kept "UNDER" (meaning justified by) the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be "JUSTIFIED" by faith.
Galatians 3:25
But after that faith (Jesus) is come, we are no longer "UNDER"a schoolmaster (which is the law).

The work that we are justified by is based on Jesus' death, the supreme work God accepted, Once Jesus died to the Law he was freed from the curse of it, so that by his resurrection that work emerged for the basis of believers best being living sacrifices, imputed/declared righteous by God, not at all made righteous by any work, but justified (positionally) in Christ by His proclamation by His grace.
I agree a believer is Righteous positionally by faith, but it is from sin only. God has made believers responsible to "PUT ON RIGHTEOUSNESS" and if they don't they are deceived.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you:he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

You don't believe what you said in this post either. If you did you would not say you sin. The curse of the law in Deuteronomy is also sin. Sin and the curse go hand-in-hand; you can't have on without the other (Deu. 27:14-26).

Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Justification is imputed righteousness, So live that and be found always desiring to do good works whether understanding what the Lord did for you, or not.
Israel was made "righteous/justified" through sacrifices under the law after they sinned. The whole purpose of the "Atonement" was to cover Israel's sins that they might have a relationship with God. Sin separated Israel from God. Jesus replaced the "Sacrificial Lamb" and died for the sins of the world by fulfilling the First Covenant, and establish the Second. The purpose of sin sacrifices were to reconcile man back unto God and this is what Jesus did for believers once for all time; everyone else is dead.

If you believed what scripture teaches, you would have died, ONCE" with Christ to sin. But because you still sin, you try to die every day to sin. You reject Romans 6:10 and 11; as well as many other scriptures that teach you are dead with Christ to sin and free "FROM" it. This is a "FAITH" walk which you are not walking by.

Romans 6:10
For in that Jesus died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he lives unto God.
Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Loyal Member
@ Hiswillbedone -- How can you possibly say that the Bible is inspired but Not Infallible. Wouldn't that comment be saying that God, Himself is fallable?! To Me, that is very dangerous ground you're treading on.

The Bible -- as we have it Now -- wasn't around for a Long time. The Dead Sea Scrolls is the first 'finding' of portions of Scripture we have.

Look at 2 Timothy 3:15 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

You sound like you believe that the only part of Scripture that is important are the four Gospels. 66-4 = 62 -- which means there are 62 other books in the Bible / God's Word that are equally as inspired and to be read.

Matthew 6:24 -- we are Not to love money/ the 'world'/ more than we love God.

We are being assured that God Will take care of us because we're more important than the animals He created. We should not live our lives Worried about our survival. And He Does take care of the animals -- they have shelter and food.
 
Loyal Member
@Wired 4 Fishen,
Nope sure am not but then again myself or the scriptures that were quoted are not talking about it either.

Truly thank you for posting all the Scriptures in order to make your point But the funny thing about it is you can take scriptures out of context and make them say what ever you wish.
Lets take a look... I presented "1 Corinthians 3:9; 2 Corinthians 6:1; John 15:2; John 6:54; etc. each of these scriptures teach you must "DO" something. You must put on "Righteousness" and the "character/fruit" of Christ.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you:he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 2:29
If you know that he is righteous, you know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

This "work/labor" is your responsibility. Where am I wrong? This is called "GOOD WORKS."

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 4:22
That "YOU" put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Ephesians 4:24
And that "YOU" put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

None of this is God's responsibility, but He has given you the power and responsibility through faith. If you are not obedient, you will die. Your work is to abide in Christ and bring forth fruit.

John 15:2
Every branch in me that bears not fruit God takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, God purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Point out my errors?
 
Loyal Member
God destroyed the world with the flood waters because mankind had become violent in thoughts/ actions. God only found Noah and his family to be righteous.
 
Loyal Member
@Sue,
God destroyed the world with the flood waters because mankind had become violent in thoughts/ actions. God only found Noah and his family to be righteous.
Exactly... It had nothing to do with sin - though when the "law" entered God started imputing sin into man and calling it sin. After the law entered man had a consciousness of sin (Rom. 3:20).

Galatians 3:19
Wherefore then serve the law? It was added because of transgressions/sin, till the seed/Jesus should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

God didn't destroy the world because of sin, but because of their violent thoughts and actions - not sin; because God was not imputing sin unto them at that time. God is not imputing sin unto believer ,now, because Jesus came as a man and fulfilled the law by taking sins away.

Yes... God only found righteousness in Noah.
 
Loyal Member
The Bible is inspired, but it is not infallible. Paul says all scri[tures were inspired by God... Yet the Bible wasn't around when He wrote that, was it?
The old testament was around.

You know the nice thing about this line of thinking... Since the Bible is full of mistakes, I get to be the person who decides which parts are right and which parts are wrong.
In fact, this is what separates just about every cult from Christianity. They have doctrine that disagrees with part(s) of the Bible.
It must be nice to be able to say... well I don't like this part of the Bible so it must be wrong, and I don't like that part of the Bible either, so it must be wrong.

Some cults go so far as to add their own "Bibles" and doctrinal books (which even they acknowledge isn't the word of God either) to "fix" the things that
are wrong in the Bible. Amazingly enough, almost all of these books have had multiple re-printings and revisions.. even "they" were the perfect book inspired
by God.
 
Loyal Member
@Sue,


Exactly... It had nothing to do with sin - though when the "law" entered God started imputing sin into man and calling it sin. After the law entered man had a consciousness of sin (Rom. 3:20).

Galatians 3:19
Wherefore then serve the law? It was added because of transgressions/sin, till the seed/Jesus should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

God didn't destroy the world because of sin, but because of their violent thoughts and actions - not sin; because God was not imputing sin unto them at that time. God is not imputing sin unto believer ,now, because Jesus came as a man and fulfilled the law by taking sins away.

Yes... God only found righteousness in Noah.

God's Word said that the people in Noah's time in history had become violent -- Genesis 6:5 "The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time."

Looks like I misspoke -- they were not violent -- they had become exceedingly wicked / evil all the time. Probably included violence, though.

Emphasis on their Great wickedness / thoughts of his heart were only evil.
 
Loyal Member
@Sue D.,
Cain through Satan's leading started the physical violence; but Satan started the spiritual violence.

Genesis 4:8
And Cain talked with Abel his brother:and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

The key words are, "EVERY IMAGINATION," "ONLY" and "CONTINUALLY EVIL." Lamech followed suite in the evil of that day when he became violent. Violent is a good word to describe some of the evil at that time.

Genesis 4:23
And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; you wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: For I have slain a man to my wounding, And a young man to my hurt.
Genesis 4:24
If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, Truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
 
The old testament was around.

You know the nice thing about this line of thinking... Since the Bible is full of mistakes, I get to be the person who decides which parts are right and which parts are wrong.
In fact, this is what separates just about every cult from Christianity. They have doctrine that disagrees with part(s) of the Bible.
It must be nice to be able to say... well I don't like this part of the Bible so it must be wrong, and I don't like that part of the Bible either, so it must be wrong.

Some cults go so far as to add their own "Bibles" and doctrinal books (which even they acknowledge isn't the word of God either) to "fix" the things that
are wrong in the Bible. Amazingly enough, almost all of these books have had multiple re-printings and revisions.. even "they" were the perfect book inspired
by God.
I think your line of thinking IS actually what causes what you fear (i.e., since people choose parts of the Bible they don't like, they make their own doctrines). Even all main stream religions are still 'cults' at heart, because they leave out the essential piece of salvation i.e., Jesus. They sure do praise His name in Church and have many topics about Jesus, but never do they say to obey Jesus.

That is all I am saying. You can quote other people in the Bible to try and fight Jesus all you like, that is the beauty of free will, but I will take my chances on judgment day by following Jesus above all other writers of the Bible. I don't care if it is Paul, Peter, Moses, or Solomon; if there seems to be contradictions (which I don't believe there are, but people twist them to mean and say what they want them to), then I will stay on the rock of Jesus' teachings so my house will be founded on the rock.

BTW, what do you think about following Jesus and not working for money (Matthew 6:24)? I do expect you to find a text from somewhere else to negate what Jesus told you to do, but if not, then the truth of the scriptures will be revealed if you get busy following Jesus... the Christ.

In peace
 

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