Psychology vs. Christianity

[Katzie]

No- because I don't believe that psychology is a response to a social problem. There are certainly several smart and respectable people who think that, but I think it misses the point of psychology.

Neither, of course, will you find descriptions of metabolic disorders, most cancers that don't form giant, obvious external tumors, viruses, abdominal surgery, or electron orbits. This doesn't mean these things didn't exist.

Mostly, in as much as they could recognise it, they would speak of demon possession as a sort of superstitious attempt to define the problem.

Well let me ask you then- by what means would a turning back to the joy of the lord end autism. Sure, God grants miracles, but demanding miracles when God has provided other help sounds a lot like casting yourself off a cliff and demanding the angels lift up your feet.

Exactly and Amen to bringing up that point. Here are my personal thoughts and opinions on this subject as it continues to be debated.

What did my son do to bring on his Autism as an infant? Would it had been possible if at age 3 with absolutely no speech and language skills for me to just tell him to pray and his autism would have vanished? I prayed and God blessed me with good guidance, counselors(including neurologist, psychologists, neuropsychologists and psychiatrists) teachers, a great school and he thrived. Is he a believer? Unfortunately despite his being raised a Christian and having the Bible read to him every night and praying with him every night.....No he is not. He is completely intellectual and logical now as a 19 years old and does not believe despite my continuing to send him to Church and Youth Group and being the best witness I can possibly be for him. We have talked about this a lot and he has told me his mind is open to have a personal experience with God and should it happen then he might believe. Does this break my heart? Yes!! Is he going to a psychologist or any other mental health Dr.? No. He needs some help with social skills and communication and I am seeking out this help through the Department of Vocational Rehabilitation and continuing his education with some College Courses, one of which is specifically about Communication Skills. I ask that you all pray for him!!!!

I did not become a Christian myself until I was 24 and I certainly experienced a lot of horrible things. One thing I went through at 18 was a drunk driver went through a stop sign at 90mph and hit my car and my head went through the windshield and my body smashed into the steering wheel and dashboard and I suffered horrible injuries. I also developed a fear of intersections and had a lot of trouble driving and then developed migraine headaches. My mom who worked for a psychologist for 25 years took me to a psychologist for my headaches and fears of driving and within weeks my headaches were gone and over a longer period of time my fear of driving subsided. So, I find it a bit harsh for some of the posters to be completely dismissing the use of Psychologists. I also think it is wrong to think Psychologists should work for free, should Doctors also work for free?

I do agree that Psychologists can not take the place of the Lord and those who are depressed because they are lost and just sinning and feeling the void of not having the Lord in their lives will never find the answer in psychology. Yet, if they are not ready to hear the word or accept Jesus as their savior it is better for them to have some help to be more functional and less self destructive then to just leave them with no counsel to continue on their path of self destruction. Also, not everyone who is depressed is so because they are lost in sin, one example.... there are hormonal reasons that can cause women to be depressed even as a faithful God loving Christian.

In my daughter's situation Schizophrenia ran on her fathers side of the family. What about genetics? Are we dismissing their factor and influence on a person mental status? She IS a Christian, however, she still went from having ADHD, OCD, Acute Anxiety Disorder, Paranoia and depression to Schizoid Affective Disorder and all of this happened as she continued reading her Bible, praying and seeking the Lord and his guidance. Why did it happen? Genetics!! Then she suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as a result of her father becoming completely schizophrenic and abandoning us. At this point, yes, she did backslide and turned to drugs and alcohol to dull her pain from feeling worthless because she felt her father did not love her. She couldn't understand he was mentally ill and incapable of loving her and anyone in the manner in which we all wanted it. This is still a sensitive subject for her even though she has turned back to God and away from sin. She still needs to take her medication at this time because when she doesn't, her mind races, she gets very OCD, she can't concentrate to even read the Bible or pay attention in Church.

Drugs and alcohol kill brain cells and damage the workings of the brain, such as causing serotonin and dopamine problems, just for an example. Her medication corrects those problems. Do I believe the Lord can correct those problems? Absolutely!!!Just as I believe he can take away my Crohn's disease and my Hypertension. Would I be foolish to just stop my medications and believe despite my health getting worse because I stopped my medications? I have done these things many times in an effort to rid myself of all medications and all illness and rely completely on the Lord. So far, it hasn't worked. The mere fact that I am alive is a miracle. I don't want to go too far off subject with getting into medical miracles I have experienced. However, I believe that there are many many mental illnesses that are not just dealing with thoughts, but having a physiological basis to them as I previously stated concerning chemical imbalances in the brain.

What about a person who suffers from a head injury causing brain damage? Is it wrong for them to seek help from Mental Health professionals who know how the brain works?

These are just my own personal thoughts and opinions. I have not referenced any scripture here. I have talked to my Pastor about all of these problems over the years and never once did he tell me that getting help for my daughter was wrong. He even visited her many times in the Psychiatric Hospital.

It just pains me to think that some parents dealing with children with some of the problems I mentioned would feel condemned by seeking out help from Mental Health professionals in addition to relying on the Lord. I also still find it hard to differentiate between that type of help and Medical help. It's all science!!

Lastly, YES there are MAJOR problems in the Psychiatric field in the United States. Some Doctors are pushing medications like they are drug dealers for the Pharmaceutical Companies who are not about helping people but they are about making money. I cringe when I hear about children being put on psychiatric medicines. There are big problems, however, as Christians we can seek Gods guidance and for that I am extremely thankful and I Praise God for all he has done and continues to do to help me and my children!!!

 

[jiggyfly]

No- because I don't believe that psychology is a response to a social problem. There are certainly several smart and respectable people who think that, but I think it misses the point of psychology.



Neither, of course, will you find descriptions of metabolic disorders, most cancers that don't form giant, obvious external tumors, viruses, abdominal surgery, or electron orbits. This doesn't mean these things didn't exist.

Mostly, in as much as they could recognise it, they would speak of demon possession as a sort of superstitious attempt to define the problem.



Well let me ask you then- by what means would a turning back to the joy of the lord end autism. Sure, God grants miracles, but demanding miracles when God has provided other help sounds a lot like casting yourself off a cliff and demanding the angels lift up your feet.

Who said anything about autism, again I'm not an expert and if there is a mental disorder expert here please speak up, but I don't believe that autism falls under a depression disorder, not even clinical depression., so try not to confuse the two. Is there a case where man cured autism?

 

[Katzie]

Who said anything about autism, again I'm not an expert and if there is a mental disorder expert here please speak up, but I don't believe that autism falls under a depression disorder, not even clinical depression., so try not to confuse the two. Is there a case where man cured autism?

I know you're not asking me, but since you're referring to autism and asking who said anything about autism....I'll tell you why I brought it up along with other mental disorders....because it is the use of Psychology that is being attacked. It is also the generalization that all depression comes from sin that I find questionable due to my knowledge of hormonal and chemical imbalances causing depression. As for man curing autism, I can tell you that with the use of Behavior Modification techniques, my son developed language, lost his violent behavior, developed eye contact and emotional contact with people, excelled academically and most people who meet him now have no clue he is autistic. They just think he's quiet because he lacks in social skills and communication basically because autistic people need to be taught everything and social skills are a little tougher to teach. So many things we all take for granted as we grow and develop and just by common sense learn are not the same for an autistic child. He is getting there by the Grace of God!!!!

 

[Br. Bear]

Hi Katzie,
I'm not so sure that psychology is being attacked as such.

I know that things have been said that indicate this way, but I think we all need to stop for a bit and look at the bigger picture.
Now, of course that means, ultimately, the Lord and His will being done on earth as it is in Heaven. So let us pop back a notch or two and look at where we are today.

In times past, there were tribal communities. (what is following is looking at a purely social picture.... ideally the LORD would be the measure that every person would go by and listen to, love and obey) These communities and people groups survived with rules and a practice of acknowledging their generational heritage, while living much simpler lives than most do today. There was always a family structure, which had all the extended relatives involved in the whole structure of the tribal unit, and the wisdom of the elders passed down and listened to and respected as a way of life.

Now, I do not suggest we all need to revert to a tribal way of life. What I am doing is opening the picture a bit....

We have all but lost the importance on the relationship we have with one another. We don't need to rely on each other anymore.... well, so it seems on the surface. So, we go about doing our thing. It is 'our right' to choose just what we will do with our lives ...
but this 'right' has come at a cost. It is an ideal way of life, paved by protest against the older generation.... against the rules that be.... driven often by the ones who make the most noise. Whichever way it came into being, we are now devoid of the framework of stability that our ancestors had. Instead we have a broken nucleus of society which is grasping at straws, attempting to hold itself together with it's 'right' to proceed as it is.

So we see psychology filling the gap, where social strength once stood. We see many like therapists busy trying desperately to keep up with the growing void in peoples lives. Of course the motive can be very noble, and the outcome is better than nothing....well, for some. But it is not the answer to our problem. This is where I think you will find the apparent attack on psychology is coming from. It is a modern attempt to fill the gap... to make peoples lives better in a society where people don't know how to communicate anymore... where everyone is too busy with their own lot to have any inclination to instruct each new generation with sound principals of living and by that I mean social skills....
I am not referring to your son.

We have all but lost it.

Jesus is the only solution.... but of course He might be seen to step on our 'rights' or the rights of others. Of course, too many wield the Bible as their authority to demand their doctrines and their set of rules, without having any authority from the Author to do so.... which only makes matters more unstable and divided. (this is part of the devil's scheme). It comes down to listening.

Tell me... the psychologist(s) that have helped your son... do they take time to do so? There is half the battle. Psychologists have trained in man's 'best' ideas about how to deal with mental/brain situations, and while they appear to be successful at times, they are merely being utilized by an uncaring and lazy people... our society at large. (Do not read me wrong, sister...there is absolutely no reference to you in those last words... you are a champion of a mother and I wish there were more mothers who battled against the odds with as much perseverance and hope as you do!) It is a social dilemma that we find is giving birth to new methods of treatment each day.

All the time, Jesus is left clearly out of the picture. Now, there are some who are professing christians and they are attempting to put it all together.... but like all of us, they will cry out to the Lord in times of pressure, or pain, or fear, or worry, or when they find sudden tragedy strikes or threatens.

So why don't we all just remember Jesus all the time? (you don't need to answer that.... It is a question as a comment...or comment/point as a question)

So, how can sin be responsible for all the problems in society? Well, it isn't as such. They are really much the same thing.... meaning, you can't have one without the other.

People tend to make up their own minds about the decisions they make. Rather than seek the Lord, rather than listen to His instruction and at times, warnings, they listen instead to their own wisdom. This wisdom is sensual, devilish and bascially the voice of the same serpent that beguiled and deceived Eve and ultimately, Adam. So all through everyday, people are making the wrong decisions.... or, again, listening to a lie.
This is the sin that gets overlooked. It is called unbelief. The Lord tells us one thing, the devil is quick to respond with an idea that is 'tastier' and we (people) make the decision based on the flesh.... rather than listening to the Lord.

If you will keep my commandments..... How many times is that said in the Scriptures?

What is the result of ignoring the Lord?

And Christians.... who would like Paul saying..... O foolish people (he said this to the Galatians) .... who has bewitched you? (!!!)

We have forgotten how to listen.. not only to each other's cries, but to the Lord. So, as a society, we find the consequence of sin (unbelief/not listening/not heeding/not obeying... the Lord) is all through our lives. A person who is hurt may not have done wrong, but you can usually find that someone along the line, directly related to the hurting, has done wrong, based on deciding to listen to what they wanted to do, instead of the counsel of God. We all fairly well know the difference between right and wrong.... Do we always do the right thing?

We fall short of the glory of God. We stop before reaching the target of His truth.

We choose to tackle social ills with man's solutions. And we, as a society, fail.... and reap the consequences. A lot of innocent people, young and old, suffer because of this lack of heeding the Lord when He calls.

And if we find ourselves in a trouble that is too big for us, who can we turn to? A lot of people say they seek the Lord to help..... but they forget that God has placed His Spirit in His Body, that He wants us to call on each other.... remember? Call upon the elders of the Church.... annointing with oil and laying on hands.....

He didn't begin a Body to be ignored, that everyone would go direct to Him only.... He wants us to love one another.

If you have something from God to give others, give it.

If you need something from God to be given to you.... ask.... but remember that He exists in His Body, Christ being the Head.....

If you love me, said Jesus, keep my commandments.....

Bless you ...><>

Br. Bear