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Pretrib Poll

Will there be a pretrib rapture?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 45.5%
  • No

    Votes: 6 54.5%

  • Total voters
    11
Very very true. Thessalonians says he who letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. That would be the Spirit. Jesus said he would never leave nor forsake us. So when Spirit goes......I go

If it's the Holy Spirit that gets taken away, how do people get saved during the tribulation? Also... where did "Jesus" say He would never leave us or forsake us?
 
If it's the Holy Spirit that gets taken away, how do people get saved during the tribulation? Also... where did "Jesus" say He would never leave us or forsake us?
The Spirit will convict as it did all through time,but will not be indwelling as with the church.
As far as Jesus Jesus saying he would never leave us. You should have learned in sundy scbool as a child.
 
Very very true. Thessalonians says he who letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. That would be the Spirit. Jesus said he would never leave nor forsake us. So when Spirit goes......I go
Are you sure it would be the Spirit? God has multitudes of angels.
 
The Spirit will convict as it did all through time,but will not be indwelling as with the church.
As far as Jesus Jesus saying he would never leave us. You should have learned in sundy scbool as a child.
We have to look at that passage I Context. Paul quotes that in Hebrews. He's quoting it from Joshua.

Joshua 1:7–9 (KJV 1900): Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. 8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.

Notice the condition. Joshua was not to depart from the Law. We see what happened when Israel sinned shortly after this.

Joshua 7:10–12 (KJV 1900): And the Lord said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? 11 Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff. 12 Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.

We see that God was them as long as they kept His commands, they obeyed the covenant. It's the same with Christians. The book of Hebrews was written to encourage Jewish believers to remain faithful in the face of persecution. Paul was reminding then that God is faithful as long as we are. If we break the covenant God is no longer required to uphold His end.
 
Luk 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.

Luk 21:35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
 
Why do we suppose that any do??

If pre-trib is accurate, He never does.

But HEY!!!! it nothing but "Theology" after all.
So you think God forsakes christians every time that they endured persecution? That would mean he forsook most of the early church accordingly. Jesus said we must pick up our own cross, just that He would make our burdens lighter.
 
So you think God forsakes christians every time that they endured persecution?
What makes you think that?? I certainly never said He did. The Bible appears to indicate that the Holy Spirit will be taken OUT during the "Tribulation", but since we go with Him, no problem. But it's only "Eschatology" - i.e. "Rank Speculation".
 
If it's the Holy Spirit that gets taken away, how do people get saved during the tribulation?

Why do we suppose that any do??

Well, it's one of two things, people are already saved and the pre-trib didn't happen, or else people get saved during the tribulation. ( I suspect both ).

Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Mark 13:24; "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25; AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26; "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27; "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

All of these verse say people will be either saved during the tribulation, or before the tribulation but not raptured until after the tribulation.

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Some people will be beheaded, because of their testimony of Jesus. They won't take the mark of the beast. Who are these people who have a testimony of Jesus during the reign of the beast?
Why are they still here? Why didn't they get raptured already if no one gets saved during the tribulation?

Unless of course Matt 24:31; and Mark 13:27 are correct and the elect get raptured "after" the tribulation. Perhaps these people were already saved before the tribulation begins.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

..."for the sake of the elect"? Why are the elect still here during the tribulation?

Mark 13:19; "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.
Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

So if there is a pre-trib rapture, then there will be another one after the tribulation to get these people. But the Bible seems to say there are only two, one for the saved, and one for everyone else.
If you miss the first resurrection, it's bad news for you.

Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Rev 9:3; Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Why are there people with "the seal of God" on their foreheads still here during the tribulation?

But either way, there will be saved believers here until the end of the tribulation. How is that possible if the Holy Spirit leaves?
 
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But either way, there will be saved believers here until the end of the tribulation. How is that possible if the Holy Spirit leaves?
Fortunately it's all nothing but "Theology", and when it actually plays out, we'll find out what it was all about. In my case, I'll probably watch it from the other side of the grass.
 
When the Apostle John was asked who a certain group of people were he did not know.

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If they were part of the Church he would have known who they were. Now he learns that they all came out of the great tribulation and had been martyred for their faith.

Then the scripture tells us what these people will do continually.

Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

This is not what the Church will do through eternity.


Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Two different groups of people who both have eternal life but have different roles in God's eternal Kingdom.

One group serves God in His Temple forever while the other group reigns with Christ forever.
 
Luk 21:36
(36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


If God says that you can pray that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all, I repeat, all these things that shall come to pass, then you can, for God does not say things for no reason.

And how shall you escape all of these things ? Well you will do so, by standing before the son of man, which is what happens at the rapture.

What shall you escape?

The things mentioned in Luke 21:8-28.

And we will not experience these specific earthquakes, the abomination, and the persecutions of that day, etc, for we will have escaped this by standing before the son of man, which is Christ.

We also will not experience the wrath of the second coming, but rather we will come down with him.

Other scriptures to consider:

Rev 3:10-11
(10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(11) Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Notice that after it mentions, being kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, it says behold I come quickly.

1Th 1:10
(10) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

This speaks of a future wrath, yet in this verse it mentions to wait for his Son from heaven, which speaks of the rapture of the church, or his coming for his church, and it is not a coincidence that all of these scriptures, in one form or another, speaks of Jesus coming, whether in the form of us standing before him, or waiting for his Son from heaven to come.

Of course there are also other verses.
 
If it's the Holy Spirit that gets taken away, how do people get saved during the tribulation? Also... where did "Jesus" say He would never leave us or forsake us?
Hi brother B-A-C , I personally am a pre-triber, but I do find your question to be very interesting indeed, in that you say about he who gets taken out of the way is not the Holy Spirit, since there will be people saved during the tribulation period.

And in that aspect of things, I would agree with you.
 
I see what people say, but that is not accurate, many people who believe in pretrib, do not say that we are not going to go through persecution, we are just saying that we are going to escape all the things of that specific tribulation time as the bible says we are, but people make false accusations, and lump all pretribers, with fear of death and persecution, that we fear to go through things, I do not think that way at all, all of Vodies arguments are assumptions, and placed on all pretribers, which that is a false way to judge things.

Two examples in the bible of people being caught up, are Enoch and Elijah, and as far as I am concerned, if God says it, regardless to peoples false assumption and accusations, I believe it and that is it.

So then should we accuse Enoch of fearing persecution, because he was taken up ?

And yes I am aware that Enoch did not have pre knowledge that he was to be taken up, but even in this, does pre knowledge of a rapture event, automatically makes you a fearful person, via trials ? Does it automatically put you in that category ?
 
I see what people say, but that is not accurate, many people who believe in pretrib, do not say that we are not going to go through persecution, we are just saying that we are going to escape all the things of that specific tribulation time as the bible says we are, but people make false accusations, and lump all pretribers, with fear of death and persecution, that we fear to go through things, I do not think that way at all, all of Vodies arguments are assumptions, and placed on all pretribers, which that is a false way to judge things.

Two examples in the bible of people being caught up, are Enoch and Elijah, and as far as I am concerned, if God says it, regardless to peoples false assumption and accusations, I believe it and that is it.

So then should we accuse Enoch of fearing persecution, because he was taken up ?

And yes I am aware that Enoch did not have pre knowledge that he was to be taken up, but even in this, does pre knowledge of a rapture event, automatically makes you a fearful person, via trials ? Does it automatically put you in that category ?
Not go Through persecution lol that's a knee slapper I wonder what kinda cushy life they r leading..
If the world loves ya then they r not of Him it's all written..

(⁠•⁠ө⁠•⁠)⁠♡
 
Not go Through persecution lol that's a knee slapper I wonder what kinda cushy life they r leading..
If the world loves ya then they r not of Him it's all written..

(⁠•⁠ө⁠•⁠)⁠♡
What you are saying is a mockery, I sense a fair amount of self righteousness in your comment here.

The truth is, you can believe in pretrib, midtrib, and posttrib, and be fearful of persecution, so then does someone base his beliefs based on the reaction of others ?

Because if that is the case, then that is going by sensuality, rather than believing what it says.

If the bible says this:

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then believe that.

And if the bible says this:

Luk 21:36
(36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So if it says that you can pray and one day escape all the events that shall come to pass, and be able to stand before the son of man, then believe that.

And if the bible says this:

Rev 3:10-11
(10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(11) Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

If it says that you can be kept from the hour of temptation that shall come upon the whole world, then believe that.

And if the bible says this:

2Ti 3:12
(12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

So it says that all who live godly shall suffer persecution, which means in some shape or form, in Christ, as we live godly, we shall face some type of persecution, opposition etc.

Whatever the opposition we face, whether verbally, physical, or even unto death, it is a form of persecution.

There is no merits in persecution, just like there is no merits in any thing, for we are saved by grace through faith, but whatever you face, stand strong in him, even unto death.

So God's word has to be rightly believed and rightly received, because if we do not go by all of scripture, and seek to believe all of it, and base our beliefs on people's reactions, that is not truly believing the whole counsel of the word.

We need to allow all of scripture to conform our thoughts to the way God thinks.
 
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And even though they that are alive and in Christ during the time of the rapture, shall escape the future wrath of God that shall be poured upon the world, that does not mean that we cannot go through persecution before hand, or at any time.
 
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