Only One God The Father

[Travis]

Its easy to prove Jesus is not the Word of God. The Word came through Jesus from God.

It's a lot easier to prove that he is the Word of God:

Revelation 19
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.​

Travis

 

[Squeaky]

It's a lot easier to prove that he is the Word of God:

Revelation 19
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.​

Travis

I said
THE ONLY BEGOTTEN WORD=(HE)(HE IS A SPIRITUAL TITLE OF AUTHORITY) THE ONLY BEGOTTEN WORD(HE) CAME THROUGH THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD (JESUS)
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
Acts 2:36-39
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
John 1:17-18
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
John 12:49-50
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
Heb 8:6
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
John 14:24-25
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
25 "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
I Jn 1:1-3
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life--
2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us--
3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1-11
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
2 Pet 1:19-21
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:15-16
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
2 Cor 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Matt 6:22-24
22 "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light.
23 "But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
2Pet 3:16-17
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
I Jn 1:1-5
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life--
2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us--
3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
I Jn 2:23-24
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Matt 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
(NKJ)
The Word of God is the power by which all things in heaven and earth submit. The Word came forth from God for all to receive this power. And the power was always given through a mediator. God was the original mediator that created it. God have that Word to Jesus. Then the Word was given to the Holy Spirit that distributes it from each individuals conscience(book of beliefs) in their mind. If and only if that individual has read the bible and put it in their beliefs(conscience). And when an individual has died to self by following the Holy Spirit(verses) and been born again. Then Jesus takes over the Word through the revelations of Jesus Christ, and rewrites their belief system(conscience). The Word of God is the power that all will have to answer to. This power is what justifies or condemns all and everything. God created it the power, and is willing to share it with those who will submit to it. Jesus was the first to submit to it on earth fully, and by that He was our example of how to receive it. When one totally submits to it the power(Word) the Word becomes alive in them. And by becoming alive in them we see the Word become flesh.
Note in verse 14 He the Word is full of grace and truth. And in verse 17 that grace and truth came through Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is not the Word. Jesus Christ is the human that submitted to the Word as an example to us, to follow. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. That the only begotten Word of God came through.
2 Cor 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
(NKJ)
The KJV was taken from all these versions. The 1611 KJV was the one who added "He" in place of "IT". The He was added to give the Word authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". He is a Spiritual title of authority. And the KJV wanted to give the Word(verses) the same title of authority. It was never meant to say that Jesus is the Word. The Word came through Jesus. And the Word can control flesh or become flesh.
Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,
Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."
Its easy to prove Jesus is not the Word of God. The Word came through Jesus from God.
John 1:17-18
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)
John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)
Mark 13:23
23 "But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.
(NKJ)
　
GO TO BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD
　
　
　
　
　
　
　

 

[Travis]

Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

Precisely.

there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account."

Who do the "his, and "him," refer to? None other than Jesus Christ, the Word of God. Or, the Word, for short (logos/λόγος).

Then Jesus takes over the Word through the revelations of Jesus Christ, and rewrites their belief system(conscience). The Word of God is the power that all will have to answer to. This power is what justifies or condemns all and everything. God created it the power, and is willing to share it with those who will submit to it. Jesus was the first to submit to it on earth fully, and by that He was our example of how to receive it. When one totally submits to it the power(Word) the Word becomes alive in them. And by becoming alive in them we see the Word become flesh.

You are soo incredibly gnostic… it blows my mind.

There is still hope for you though. If you repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, the real one, you can still be saved.

Grace to you,

Travis

 

[RJ]

John 1:1-6 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea it.
6There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Let's take this step by step:

• In the begining was the word
• The word was with God
• The word was God
• He was with God in the begining ( who is He?)
• In him was life
• and the life was the light
• John The Baptist came to testify the light
• John was not the light but he came to witness the light.

Conclusion: Jesus was the word, Jesus was the light, the word was with God and the word was God...Jesus is God!!! Period!
Now, Squeaky how do you spin that to support your "Jesus not God" theology?

 

[Squeaky]

Precisely.

there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account."

Who do the "his, and "him," refer to? None other than Jesus Christ, the Word of God. Or, the Word, for short (logos/λόγος).




You are soo incredibly gnostic… it blows my mind.

There is still hope for you though. If you repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, the real one, you can still be saved.

Grace to you,

Travis

I said
The He's And Him'S
2 Cor 5:18
18 Now all things are of God(Father), who has reconciled us to Himself(Father) through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
Heb 2:10
10 For it was fitting for Him(Father), for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain(Jesus) of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
1 Pet 4:19
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God(Father) commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator(Father).
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ(Jesus), the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ(Jesus) is God(Father).
Eph 2:10
10 For we are His(Father) workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God(Father) prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Eph 3:8-11
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God(Father) who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God(Father) might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He(Father) accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Col 1:13-20
13 He(Father) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son(Jesus) of His(Father) love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His(Jesus) blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him(Father) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him(Jesus) and for Him(Father).
17 And He(Father) is before all things, and in Him(Father) all things consist.
18 And He(Jesus) is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He(Jesus) may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him(Jesus) all the fullness should dwell,
20 and by Him(Father) to reconcile all things to Himself(Father), by Him(Jesus), whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His(Jesus) cross.
Rev 4:11
11 "You are worthy, O Lord(Father), to receive glory and honor and power; for You(Father) created all things, and by Your(Father) will they exist and were created."
Mark 10:6
6 "But from the beginning of the creation, God(Father) 'made them male and female.'
Rom 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world His(Father) invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His(Father) eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Rev 3:14
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness(Jesus), the Beginning of the creation of God(Father):
Col 1:15
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
John 5:37-40
37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me(Jesus), has testified of Me(Jesus). You have neither heard His(Father) voice at any time, nor seen His (Father) form.
38 "But you do not have His(Father) word abiding in you, because whom He(Father) sent, Him(Jesus) you do not believe.
39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me(Jesus).
40 "But you are not willing to come to Me(Jesus) that you may have life.
Rom 11:32-36
32 For God(Father)has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God(Father)! How unsearchable are His(Father) judgments and His(Father) ways past finding out!
34 "For who has known the mind of the Lord(Jesus)? Or who has become His(Jesus) counselor?"
35 "Or who has first given to Him(Jesus) and it shall be repaid to him?"
36 For of Him(Father) and through Him(Jesus) and to Him(Father) are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
(NKJ)
THROUGH CHRIST---REASON FOR WAS CHRIST
xxxThe deffinition of through- is reason for. So God created everything through or for the reason of Jesus. God created everything for Jesus sake.
Heb 1:1-6
1 God(Father), who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His(Father) Son(Jesus), whom He(Father) has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He(Father) made the worlds;
3 who being the brightness of His(Father) glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His(Father) power, when He(Jesus) had by Himself(Jesus) purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty(Father) on high,
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He(Jesus) has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For to which of the angels did He(Father) ever say: "You(Jesus) are My(Father) Son(Jesus), today I(Father) have begotten You(Jesus)"? And again: "I will be to Him a Father, and He(Jesus) shall be to Me(Father) a Son"?
6 But when He(Father) again brings the firstborn(Jesus) into the world, He(Father) says: "Let all the angels of God(Father) worship Him(Jesus)."
2 Cor 3:4
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God(Father).
Gal 4:7
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God(Father) through Christ(Jesus).
Phil 4:7
7 and the peace of God(Father), which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Phil 4:13
13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8
8 First, I thank my God(Father) through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom 5:21
21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
2 Cor 5:18-19
18 Now all things are of God(Father), who has reconciled us to Himself(Father) through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God(Father) was in Christ(Jesus) reconciling the world to Himself(Father), not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)
xxx God the Father done all the creating. God the Father sent His Son Jesus to pay for our sins. And to be an example of how to worship God the Father in the right Spirit. God created Jesus first before anything else. Then God had someone to love. God had someone to give to, but Jesus didnt have anyone that He could give to. So God created everything else through Jesus or for Jesus. The heavens and the earth were created for Jesus. Now to purchase them Jesus had to die on the cross. We all have to prove ourselves to God. Jesus proved Himself, and made the way that we can prove ourselves.
GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS
John 17:5
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me(Jesus) together with Yourself(Father), with the glory which I(Jesus) had with You(Father) before the world was.
Col 1:15
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
Rev 3:14
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness(Jesus), the Beginning of the creation of God(Father):
(NKJ)
Eph 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God(Father) and Father(Father) of our Lord(Jesus) Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us(Christians) in him(Jesus) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him(Jesus) in love:
(KJV)
　

 

[Squeaky]

John 1:1-6 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea it.
6There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Let's take this step by step:

• In the begining was the word
• The word was with God
• The word was God
• He was with God in the begining ( who is He?)
• In him was life
• and the life was the light
• John The Baptist came to testify the light
• John was not the light but he came to witness the light.

Conclusion: Jesus was the word, Jesus was the light, the word was with God and the word was God...Jesus is God!!! Period!
Now, Squeaky how do you spin that to support your "Jesus not God" theology?

I said
The KJV was taken from all these versions. The 1611 KJV was the one who added "He" in place of "IT". The He was added to give the Word authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". He is a Spiritual title of authority. And the KJV wanted to give the Word(verses) the same title of authority. It was never meant to say that Jesus is the Word. The Word came through Jesus. And the Word can control flesh or become flesh.
Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,
Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."
Its easy to prove Jesus is not the Word of God. The Word came through Jesus from God.

 

[Squeaky]

John 1:1-6 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea it.
6There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Let's take this step by step:

• In the begining was the word
• The word was with God
• The word was God
• He was with God in the begining ( who is He?)
• In him was life
• and the life was the light
• John The Baptist came to testify the light
• John was not the light but he came to witness the light.

Conclusion: Jesus was the word, Jesus was the light, the word was with God and the word was God...Jesus is God!!! Period!
Now, Squeaky how do you spin that to support your "Jesus not God" theology?

I said
You do like most people carnally minded. Put in alittle arrogance and you start assuming. You take circumstantial verses that can go either way and try to turn them into factual verses. These are factual verses. Jesus said the Father is the ONLY true God. Paul said for us there is only one God the Father.
In your deception you are blaspheming these verses.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

 

[Travis]

Col 1:13-20
13 He(Father) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son(Jesus) of His(Father) love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His(Jesus) blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him(Father) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him(Jesus) and for Him(Father).
17 And He(Father) is before all things, and in Him(Father) all things consist.
18 And He(Jesus) is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He(Jesus) may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him(Jesus) all the fullness should dwell,
20 and by Him(Father) to reconcile all things to Himself(Father), by Him(Jesus) (What version did you get this from.... ?), whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His(Jesus) cross.

I think you may have incorrectly identified a few of those Him's. I don't think they are referring to the Father, but to Jesus. I believe the vast majority of scholars would agree with me on this. I highlighted these in blue for you.

Matthew Henry puts it better than I can:

II. Concerning the person of the Redeemer. Glorious things are here said of him; for blessed Paul was full of Christ, and took all occasions to speak honourably of him. He speaks of him distinctly as God, and as Mediator. 1. As God he speaks of him, v. 15-17. (1.) He is the image of the invisible God. Not as man was made in the image of God (Gen. 1:27), in his natural faculties and dominion over the creatures: no, he is the express image of his person, Heb. 1:3. He is so the image of God as the son is the image of his father, who has a natural likeness to him; so that he who has seen him has seen the Father, and his glory was the glory of the only-begotten of the Father, Jn. 1:14; 14:9. (2.) He is the first-born of every creature. Not that he is himself a creature; for it is proµtotokos paseµs ktiseoµs-born or begotten before all the creation, or before any creature was made, which is the scripture-way of representing eternity, and by which the eternity of God is represented to us: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was; when there was no depth, before the mountains were settled, while as yet he had not made the earth, Prov. 8:23-26. It signifies his dominion over all things, as the first-born in a family is heir and lord of all, so he is the heir of all things, Heb. 1:2. The word, with only the change of the accent, proµtotokos, signifies actively the first begetter or producer of all things, and so it well agrees with the following clause. Vid. Isidor. Peleus. epist. 30 lib. 3. (3.) He is so far from beginning himself a creature that he is the Creator: For by him were all things created, which are in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, v. 16. He made all things out of nothing, the highest angel in heaven, as well as men upon earth. He made the world, the upper and lower world, with all the inhabitants of both. All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made which was made, Jn. 1:3. He speaks here as if there were several orders of angels: Whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers, which must signify either different degrees of excellence or different offices and employments. Angels, authorities, and powers, 1 Pt. 3:22. Christ is the eternal wisdom of the Father, and the world was made in wisdom. He is the eternal Word, and the world was made by the word of God. He is the arm of the Lord, and the world was made by that arm. All things are created by him and for him; di' autou kai eis auton. Being created by him, they were created for him; being made by his power, they were made according to his pleasure and for his praise. He is the end, as well as the cause of all things. To him are all things, Rom. 11:36; eis auton ta panta. (4.) He was before all things. He had a being before the world was made, before the beginning of time, and therefore from all eternity. Wisdom was with the Father, and possessed by him in the beginning of his ways, before his works of old, Prov. 8:22. And in the beginning the Word was with God and was God, Jn. 1:1. He not only had a being before he was born of the virgin, but he had a being before all time. (5.) By him all things consist. They not only subsist in their beings, but consist in their order and dependences. He not only created them all at first, but it is by the word of his power that they are still upheld, Heb. 1:3. The whole creation is kept together by the power of the Son of God, and made to consist in its proper frame. It is preserved from disbanding and running into confusion. ​

It's all about Jesus. The Father is pleased to give everything into his hands and to make him the central focus. The Father would not do this to a mere created being. Jesus is not created, but existed before time began. AKA he has always existed. Also, he is able to save those who will turn to Him, forsaking themselves. There is but one gospel, and this gospel concerns Jesus Christ. This gospel can save you from the judgement of Almighty God, if you will place your trust in Christ and what he did on the cross to save you. If you will come to believe that Jesus's sacrificial atonement, his blood shed on Calvary, is sufficient to pay the price for your redemption, you can have his righteousness applied to you, and be right with God. There is no other way to be saved.

Grace to you,

Travis

 

[DHC]

GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS
John 17:5
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me(Jesus) together with Yourself(Father), with the glory which I(Jesus) had with You(Father) before the world was.

Hello Squeaky.

I wish to comment on what you wrote above Squeaky.

You made the statement that 'GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS', where in the scripture are we told that Jesus is a created entity?

Jesus came from above and appeared as a man, hence, Jesus must have been created after the world was created, if what you say
is correct. But in the verse you quoted above, Jesus was with the Father before the world was created! In other words Jesus existed
before the creation itself existed! Read this 'with the glory which I had with You before the world was'.

Here is the paradox you present Squeaky, Jesus is a created entity but Jesus exists before the creation itself exists (John 17:5)?
How do you maintain this illogical paradox, Squeaky.

 

[RJ]

I said
You do like most people carnally minded. Put in alittle arrogance and you start assuming. You take circumstantial verses that can go either way and try to turn them into factual verses. These are factual verses. Jesus said the Father is the ONLY true God. Paul said for us there is only one God the Father.
In your deception you are blaspheming these verses.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

You call me carnal and it is you who belong to a cult.
You say" Like Most People". Well, "most People" know and believe in the trinity and that Jesus is God, No one can explain it, no more than we can truly explain the immaculate conception or the resurrection, we just have the gift of faith frrom God and we just know it. You , on the other hand, have no such faith and are no Christian.
It is you that have something in common with Satin , not me: Satin is well versed but he denies Jesus as God and so do you!
Please, why don't you go somewhere else to pedal your Satanic Garabage!

 

[NoHype]

Indeed, it is very important to note in 1 John 2, one of the specific points John makes is the importance of believing that Jesus is The Christ:

1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

The subject of 'The Christ-Messiah' is about God as Saviour per OT Scripture like Isaiah. This is why His Name was given as "Immanuel" in Isaiah, which means 'with us is God', as declared in Matthew also. So when John specifies that those who deny Jesus as "the Christ", that's what he is saying, that they deny God The Saviour came in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[Squeaky]

Indeed, it is very important to note in 1 John 2, one of the specific points John makes is the importance of believing that Jesus is The Christ:

1 John 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

The subject of 'The Christ-Messiah' is about God as Saviour per OT Scripture like Isaiah. This is why His Name was given as "Immanuel" in Isaiah, which means 'with us is God', as declared in Matthew also. So when John specifies that those who deny Jesus as "the Christ", that's what he is saying, that they deny God The Saviour came in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth.

I said
I always seen it differently. Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ, the anointed one. Denies that Jesus is the son of God. And not God. Once one denies that Jesus is the Christ, the one who God will work through. He is denying the Father and His Works, and Jesus and His works.
I Jn 2:22-24
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
(NKJ)
2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

I think you may have incorrectly identified a few of those Him's. I don't think they are referring to the Father, but to Jesus. I believe the vast majority of scholars would agree with me on this. I highlighted these in blue for you.

Matthew Henry puts it better than I can:

II. Concerning the person of the Redeemer. Glorious things are here said of him; for blessed Paul was full of Christ, and took all occasions to speak honourably of him. He speaks of him distinctly as God, and as Mediator. 1. As God he speaks of him, v. 15-17. (1.) He is the image of the invisible God. Not as man was made in the image of God (Gen. 1:27), in his natural faculties and dominion over the creatures: no, he is the express image of his person, Heb. 1:3. He is so the image of God as the son is the image of his father, who has a natural likeness to him; so that he who has seen him has seen the Father, and his glory was the glory of the only-begotten of the Father, Jn. 1:14; 14:9. (2.) He is the first-born of every creature. Not that he is himself a creature; for it is proµtotokos paseµs ktiseoµs-born or begotten before all the creation, or before any creature was made, which is the scripture-way of representing eternity, and by which the eternity of God is represented to us: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was; when there was no depth, before the mountains were settled, while as yet he had not made the earth, Prov. 8:23-26. It signifies his dominion over all things, as the first-born in a family is heir and lord of all, so he is the heir of all things, Heb. 1:2. The word, with only the change of the accent, proµtotokos, signifies actively the first begetter or producer of all things, and so it well agrees with the following clause. Vid. Isidor. Peleus. epist. 30 lib. 3. (3.) He is so far from beginning himself a creature that he is the Creator: For by him were all things created, which are in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, v. 16. He made all things out of nothing, the highest angel in heaven, as well as men upon earth. He made the world, the upper and lower world, with all the inhabitants of both. All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made which was made, Jn. 1:3. He speaks here as if there were several orders of angels: Whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers, which must signify either different degrees of excellence or different offices and employments. Angels, authorities, and powers, 1 Pt. 3:22. Christ is the eternal wisdom of the Father, and the world was made in wisdom. He is the eternal Word, and the world was made by the word of God. He is the arm of the Lord, and the world was made by that arm. All things are created by him and for him; di' autou kai eis auton. Being created by him, they were created for him; being made by his power, they were made according to his pleasure and for his praise. He is the end, as well as the cause of all things. To him are all things, Rom. 11:36; eis auton ta panta. (4.) He was before all things. He had a being before the world was made, before the beginning of time, and therefore from all eternity. Wisdom was with the Father, and possessed by him in the beginning of his ways, before his works of old, Prov. 8:22. And in the beginning the Word was with God and was God, Jn. 1:1. He not only had a being before he was born of the virgin, but he had a being before all time. (5.) By him all things consist. They not only subsist in their beings, but consist in their order and dependences. He not only created them all at first, but it is by the word of his power that they are still upheld, Heb. 1:3. The whole creation is kept together by the power of the Son of God, and made to consist in its proper frame. It is preserved from disbanding and running into confusion. ​

It's all about Jesus. The Father is pleased to give everything into his hands and to make him the central focus. The Father would not do this to a mere created being. Jesus is not created, but existed before time began. AKA he has always existed. Also, he is able to save those who will turn to Him, forsaking themselves. There is but one gospel, and this gospel concerns Jesus Christ. This gospel can save you from the judgement of Almighty God, if you will place your trust in Christ and what he did on the cross to save you. If you will come to believe that Jesus's sacrificial atonement, his blood shed on Calvary, is sufficient to pay the price for your redemption, you can have his righteousness applied to you, and be right with God. There is no other way to be saved.

Grace to you,

Travis

I said
I see what your saying but must disagree. And I don't doubt you are the majority. And I am the manority But the Holy Spirit gave me my answers. Not society.

Matt 7:13-15
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Hello Squeaky.

I wish to comment on what you wrote above Squeaky.

You made the statement that 'GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS', where in the scripture are we told that Jesus is a created entity?

Jesus came from above and appeared as a man, hence, Jesus must have been created after the world was created, if what you say
is correct. But in the verse you quoted above, Jesus was with the Father before the world was created! In other words Jesus existed
before the creation itself existed! Read this 'with the glory which I had with You before the world was'.

Here is the paradox you present Squeaky, Jesus is a created entity but Jesus exists before the creation itself exists (John 17:5)?
How do you maintain this illogical paradox, Squeaky.

I said

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

 

[DHC]

I said

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

Hello Squeaky.

Your interpretation has failed at this point Squeaky.

You made the initial statement that 'GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS'.

I asked you where in the scripture are we told that Jesus is a created entity?

You need to furnish the evidence to support the claim that you posted, not inference.

You replied with the singular quotation below.

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation

This quotation does not in fact state that Jesus was a created entity, the first created
entity within the creation itself?

May I say Squeaky, the text you quoted states that Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.

Jesus is the material and visible God, the real world God that walks and talks in the garden
with Adam and Eve. The real world God that wrestles with Jacob and appears to Moses.
The visible God rendered and described by the prophets, Squeaky. You were created in
the image of the visible God, you were not created in the image of the invisible God.
You have a human appearance which is the image of the visible God in the Old Testament.

Your quotation then states that Jesus is 'the firstborn over all creation'.

Jesus was the firstborn from the dead over all creation Squeaky.

Paul is declaring the Gospel of the death and resurrection of the visible God.

Colossians 1
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead

Context is king Squeaky, never again read any verses outside of the embedded context.

The firstborn from the dead is the firstborn over all creation. Not the firstborn is the first
created being within the creation.

Paul states that Jesus is the beginning, which is one half of the description, 'the beginning
and the end'. This one of the defining descriptions of God Himself.

If you neglect the context then you will stumble into an unsound interpretation.

Once again Squeaky I will ask you to present the text that state that Jesus was created
by God.

I quoted the text (John 17:5) which without any dispute, informs us that Jesus was before the
creation event.

John 17
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

This supports the claim that Jesus was before the creation event and that Jesus formerly had the
same Glory as the Father. Meaning that Jesus is the visible, real world, creative God.

Then I submitted that Jesus humbled Himself and became a human image.

Philippians 2
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

I have produced the evidence to support the claim that Jesus is the visible God and that He
humbled Himself before taking on the human image. Emptied Himself means Jesus discarded
the visible image of God, He discarded the exact representation of the invisible God.

You have not as yet furnished any evidence to support your claim.

Your claim once again is that 'GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS'.

Your claim is purely an inference derived from an unsound reading of the texts.

In order to present a claim that refutes the claim of thousands of scholars, then I suggest
you do the necessary research and find the text to support your claim.

 

[Squeaky]

Hello Squeaky.

Your interpretation has failed at this point Squeaky.

You made the initial statement that 'GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS'.

I asked you where in the scripture are we told that Jesus is a created entity?

You need to furnish the evidence to support the claim that you posted, not inference.

You replied with the singular quotation below.

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation

This quotation does not in fact state that Jesus was a created entity, the first created
entity within the creation itself?

May I say Squeaky, the text you quoted states that Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.

Jesus is the material and visible God, the real world God that walks and talks in the garden
with Adam and Eve. The real world God that wrestles with Jacob and appears to Moses.
The visible God rendered and described by the prophets, Squeaky. You were created in
the image of the visible God, you were not created in the image of the invisible God.
You have a human appearance which is the image of the visible God in the Old Testament.

Your quotation then states that Jesus is 'the firstborn over all creation'.

Jesus was the firstborn from the dead over all creation Squeaky.

Paul is declaring the Gospel of the death and resurrection of the visible God.

Colossians 1
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead

Context is king Squeaky, never again read any verses outside of the embedded context.

The firstborn from the dead is the firstborn over all creation. Not the firstborn is the first
created being within the creation.

Paul states that Jesus is the beginning, which is one half of the description, 'the beginning
and the end'. This one of the defining descriptions of God Himself.

If you neglect the context then you will stumble into an unsound interpretation.

Once again Squeaky I will ask you to present the text that state that Jesus was created
by God.

I quoted the text (John 17:5) which without any dispute, informs us that Jesus was before the
creation event.

John 17
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

This supports the claim that Jesus was before the creation event and that Jesus formerly had the
same Glory as the Father. Meaning that Jesus is the visible, real world, creative God.

Then I submitted that Jesus humbled Himself and became a human image.

Philippians 2
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

I have produced the evidence to support the claim that Jesus is the visible God and that He
humbled Himself before taking on the human image. Emptied Himself means Jesus discarded
the visible image of God, He discarded the exact representation of the invisible God.

You have not as yet furnished any evidence to support your claim.

Your claim once again is that 'GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS'.

Your claim is purely an inference derived from an unsound reading of the texts.

In order to present a claim that refutes the claim of thousands of scholars, then I suggest
you do the necessary research and find the text to support your claim.

I said
INTELLECTUAL IDIOTS NEED TO PURGE AND SEPARATE TO RELATE TO GODS WISDOM
Matt 12:37
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
Luke 6:32-35
32 "But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
33 "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
34 "And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back.
35 "But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.
Matt 5:46-47
46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
Rom 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Gal 5:24
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Phil 3:8-11
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
2 Cor 4:16-18
16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,
18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
2 Cor 6:17-18
17 Therefore "Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Eph 4:21
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
1 Cor 1:18-21
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1 Cor 1:25-26
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
Matt 11:25
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.
2 Tim 3:5
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
(NKJ)
xxx We should as christians turn away from the intellectuals that want to put everything in their own words instead of useing the Words of our Lord. There is no absolute in the intellectual mind. There is only more questions for the use of deception. When we use the verses, they become our absolute. One can not receive the wisdom of God while looking through mans intellect.
　
　
Matt 3:7
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
(NKJ)
Matt 23:33
33 "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
(NKJ)
Matt 12:34-37
34 "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
35 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
(NKJ)
John 7:18
18 "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
(NKJ)
　
　
　
　

 

[DHC]

I said
INTELLECTUAL IDIOTS NEED TO PURGE AND SEPARATE TO RELATE TO GODS WISDOM

Hello squeaky.

Your language portrays your frustration.

I said
INTELLECTUAL IDIOTS NEED TO PURGE AND SEPARATE TO RELATE TO GODS WISDOM

Squeaky, what I wrote is not an intellectual dialogue by any means.

If you make any claim in life then you need to be able support that claim.

For example Squeaky, if you said 'my car is faster than your car'. Then you need to supply
the evidence to support that claim. Otherwise your claim is nothing more than an idle boast.

Most folk would expect you to prove or at least to demonstrate, that you car is in fact, faster
than my car in a race. A claim and the evidence to support that claim, is the standard and ancient
practice. God makes claims then God backs up the claims with demonstrations of His power.
This is the time honored process of claim and evidence to support the claim.

If you claim that Jesus is a created being, then you are expected Squeaky, to place the evidence
on the table, so that we can examine the evidence for ourselves.

So I ask you again Squeaky, to supply the verses that tell us and beyond any inference that
Jesus was created. Your claim is overturning the interpretation of thousands of scholars.
Your claim is contrary to the entire history of the church. Your claim was printed in large
letters and takes on the form of a declaration Squeaky.

GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS

Your posts will be read by people from all around the world Squeaky, this is a very serious issue.

Once again I ask you to provide the text that support your claim!

 

[Squeaky]

Hello squeaky.

Your language portrays your frustration.

Squeaky, what I wrote is not an intellectual dialogue by any means.

If you make any claim in life then you need to be able support that claim.

For example Squeaky, if you said 'my car is faster than your car'. Then you need to supply
the evidence to support that claim. Otherwise your claim is nothing more than an idle boast.

Most folk would expect you to prove or at least to demonstrate, that you car is in fact, faster
than my car in a race. A claim and the evidence to support that claim, is the standard and ancient
practice. God makes claims then God backs up the claims with demonstrations of His power.
This is the time honored process of claim and evidence to support the claim.

If you claim that Jesus is a created being, then you are expected Squeaky, to place the evidence
on the table, so that we can examine the evidence for ourselves.

So I ask you again Squeaky, to supply the verses that tell us and beyond any inference that
Jesus was created. Your claim is overturning the interpretation of thousands of scholars.
Your claim is contrary to the entire history of the church. Your claim was printed in large
letters and takes on the form of a declaration Squeaky.

Your posts will be read by people from all around the world Squeaky, this is a very serious issue.

Once again I ask you to provide the text that support your claim!

I said
For me the verse still stands.

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation

All that carnal intellect is the reason I thought I would show you what God thinks about it. Ofcourse you can reject it the same way you reject all the other revelations. Its not my job to open your understanding, that is Gods job. All I can do is show the Word to you. Plant a few seeds for other to compare what you said with the verses.

 

[Strypes]

Col. 1:15, "firstborn of all creation"

by Matt Slick

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exists." (Col. 1:15-17, for context. The New World Translation--Emphasis added. Note the NWT's addition of 'other' into the text four times.

The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the word become flesh (John 1:1, 14), is not a created thing; but that hasn't stopped the Watchtower organization from claiming He is. Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn," and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.

Second, the biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born." (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:

Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my fatherï's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction." (NASB)
Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (NASB)

Scripture best interprets scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as the Jehovah's Witnesses say it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family, and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all things. The Jehovah's Witnesses should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15. They should also abandon the Watchtower which guides them in their thinking and believing.

 

[Squeaky]

Col. 1:15, "firstborn of all creation"

by Matt Slick

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exists." (Col. 1:15-17, for context. The New World Translation--Emphasis added. Note the NWT's addition of 'other' into the text four times.

The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the word become flesh (John 1:1, 14), is not a created thing; but that hasn't stopped the Watchtower organization from claiming He is. Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn," and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.

Second, the biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born." (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:

Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my fatherï's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction." (NASB)
Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (NASB)

Scripture best interprets scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as the Jehovah's Witnesses say it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family, and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all things. The Jehovah's Witnesses should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15. They should also abandon the Watchtower which guides them in their thinking and believing.

I said
These verses are all about the Father.
Col 1:12-16
12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
13 He(Father) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His(Jesus) blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him(Father) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him(Jesus) and for Him(Father).
(NKJ)