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Perhapsnot everyone goes through the same thing but I do notice a change I didnt put there. Im glad its there but I cant take credit for it. And Im afraid of even considering my will as being the thing that gets me home. Ive seen all too well what my will does if left to itself. That's why it scares me. I find true joy unlike any ive ever had in knowing it is a person, Jesus, and not a thing, or mechanism, a law or even me that will bring me to Him safely.

yeah for me though it was about as strong mentally as you describe but i have no Joy in it, never really did, and i never really trusted God, i can't recall when the Spirit told me anything i ask he would answer, it was probably within a month or two of receiving the HS, but i didn't believe it, so i went a few months being decieved about some pretty serious stuff, due to seeking that knowledge from man, not God.
and now i'm starting to get back into that communion you talk about but i'm being bootstrapped far beyond what i can talk about, certainly not online.
in fact, from your testimony Jason i can probably safely speculate you're in the same boat i am. that is. 1 out of 1000 believers.. who are 1 out of 50 unbelievers.

you've probably had the Holy Spirit come upon you. i have, didn't like it actually. in Jesus word's, if i can recall correctly "you would have nothing of my Spirit"
lost one anointing, gained another a couple months later, haven't been doing much as of late.
and most believers i know don't even believe such a thing is possible.

a few weeks back: "where is your fruit?"
 
Hello Stan53 thanks for the reply. I may have exercised my will but it was only after God moved 1st. I dont say that to try to keep to any doctrine. See, my story is one of basically being what you might call a semi-pelagian. Then about 2 yrs ago all that I knew changed. Things I used to like, i didnt anymore. I couldnt even read scripture because it didnt even read the same anymore. I was terrified beyond words for months. I was aware of sin. It was the biggest thing in my thinking. I thought I was a sinner before but obviously I didnt know. I didnt by any of my own power do this that Im even aware of. I had never really heard of conviction of the Spirit before. My thinking changed as well. I have a desire for God I never had before. BUT... i fought this the entire way. I was suspisious of God for Months on end. All I knew was that God was holy and real, I was a sinner, and the things of God were the only thing I had any desire for. This lasted for roughly 2yrs and like I said, i was either wrong at every point or fighting at every point. Jacob wrestled with God and when He saw He didnt prevail against him, He did what He had to to make him stop wrestling. Because according to God's choice, the promise of the seed to abraham was going to go through jacob, not esau. ~ romans 9:11 I hope I didnt butcher that up but maybe you see where Im coming from in my thinking since posts cant reveal the heart or motive or where a thought is coming from.

Purhaps not everyone goes through the same thing but I do notice a change I didnt put there. Im glad its there but I cant take credit for it. And Im afraid of even considering my will as being the thing that gets me home. Ive seen all too well what my will does if left to itself. That's why it scares me. I find true joy unlike any ive ever had in knowing it is a person, Jesus, and not a thing, or mechanism, a law or even me that will bring me to Him safely.

As far as regeneration, I call it that since the things I used to find attractive or do, dirty jokes, bad web sites, being so selfish towards my wife, different hobbies, etc... just stopped in a day. There are still lingering things that snare me and i have to cry out for help but that never entered my mind before. I just didnt care. Im still a sinner but He is a greater savior. I have a job where i sit down all day and can listen to headphones. Before it would have been some pretty crazy music. Now its hrs and hrs of mp3's(bible, sermons, etc..) I would have scoffed at that before. Now I do it because I enjoy it. I thank God for that since I dont know how I made that happen. Could that all go away? I dont know and for a while I was fearful it would and fearful of what that may mean. But eventually He taught me, is teaching, that I should trust Him and stop looking to myself to see if im able. Im not but He is.

jason



I see what you are saying Jason and I caution you to just receive and grow now. It IS apparent that you are submitting to God and this is obviously new to you. I pray God Blesses you greatly as you submit to Him. This is you, your will that is submitting here. Be comfortable in submitting to God.

See what Jesus said in Matthew 19; When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astounded and said, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked straight at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

WITH God is the key.


 
GOD revealed too the disciples they would have eternal life 1 Even before they had eternal life and Even what there rewards would be !

Think they could have lost there not yet Eternal life ?

eternal life , salvation is Only being Born -Again ! Nothing added or taken away ! It very simple !

Of course I too when I first was born again / thought i could lose salvation 1 but with the Holy Ghost training me ! I soon saw what Took place at salvation and knew it was Impossible to lose salvation ! Once we had the NEW BIRTH !

the carnal mind wants to make it part of the flesh ! It has Nothing to do with the flesh ! It only about our New spirit !

Listen if you have not known the new Birth , which is just as Profound as our First , except it from our Spirit ! Then your Not born again and are going to hell !


Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Born of water is the birth from our Mothers ! born of the spirit is Our New Birth from our Father God Perfect seed !

1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

There is no more important subject on the earth for mankind than eternal life ! That why I post so much about it !

That why we in our Spirit which is the Holy perfect child of God we CANNOT SIN !
 
I just do not think some people understand what salvation is ?
It a new birth ! We are a New Spirit being , that cannot sin 1 The new creature our spirit is ? Is made in the image of JESUS CHRIST!

That why He shares His throne with us and why He not ashamed to call us brother ! The flesh is nevrer saved nor is it ever perfected 1 It dies only because it full of sin !

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal_6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing1Co_15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Only our new Spirit is free from sin !
Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life

Col_1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
He is the first creature we are the other creatures !

Rom_8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

We cannot see our new Spirit ! We must by faith believe what God living Word tells us about it !

People want to judge after what they see ! We are to judge by the spirit of the person !

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

satan got many tricked into thinking there is no such thing as Eternal life ! But God has sealed us and counts us already in heavenly places and declared us All ? More than conquerors and Over comers ! at salvation !

Some refuse to accept this truth 1 I have !

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not
Only our New Spirit will never sin 1

GOD sees all of our flesh as a sinner ! that why it dies!

1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Rom_8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

We cannot lose salvation because we are HIS BODY!
He not losing body parts always ! He never lost a child yet and Never will !

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
1Co_6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Why would HE allow us to share in HIS throne or let us judge this world or judge the fallen angels ?

Because we have HIS MIND ! We will do just as HE would 100%

Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
It HIS BLOOD that has joined us too the LORD !


Eph_5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.



Spirit1st: Correct me if I am wrong. Are you saying our spirit can not sin because that will be when we are with the LORD that we wiill not be able to sin. But as long as we are in this body on earth (before death) as humans we most assuredly can and do sin. Have I got that right?


farout
 
The Bible says:

[h=3]1 John 3:9[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

When one understands that our true self is spirit, one knows that the spirit is where God dwells and that the spirit has been made alive and made pure and holy by God, and that the spirit does not sin, but one knows well that the soul and body are susceptible to sin.
 
It only our New spirit with it mind like our LORDs that cannot sin NOW1 Now are we the sons of GOD ! It only our Spirit being that is the child of GOD!
We still dwell in sin filled bodies that can sin ! Our flesh is a sinner
Our spirit once Born of god is no longer a sinner ! It perfect without sin and CANNOT SIN !

1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God

Heb_12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Our flesh wants to sin ! Our new Spirit hates sin !

Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Our New Spirit cannot sin !that why it free from sin !

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Jesus has boght new laws to Those in HIM ! Which are the laws our Spirit lives in and under !

Love and Faith !


2Ti_1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 1Th_5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1Pe_1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Jn_4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jn_4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Only laws HE writes in our HEART [Spirit] is LOVE and faith !



WE must be BORN -Again ! It a brand new birth ! which we Never forget that moment ! I remember mine like it just took place! And it was in 1972 !

I was looking for a reason for life ! I was looking for LOVE ! i went from girl to girl searching for that LOVE ! I knew something was missing in me and I did not know what ?
Then I prayed and said ? God if your real and if JESUS CHRIST is real and the Bible real ? Reveal your self to me and I will follow you ! Then I said ? If I am not talking to the Air and someone is really hearing me ? I will fall down ! But each time i fall down You help me up and I will go again !
At that moment I was born again !
I was so happy I wanted to tell the world and tried ! He has always picked me back up and never hurt me or mistreated me 1 He only shown Great Love and mercy on ME!
So i tried hard too please HIm and obey HIM !

Our Peace and joy comes from HIM ! I live in real freedom ! I try not to ever sin , but I do not worry about it ! I hate sin ! anything that i might think He hates ? I just do not want to do ever !

I LOVE the LORD more than my own life ! Rather please HIm than live !
 
Yes of Course we change outwardly !But it takes time ! and even then we are never perfect in our outward man! But the more we change in our heart [Spirit] the more we appear like our LORD outwardly !
I changed lots since salvation outwardly far from perfect outwardly ! but much different !

2Co_4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.


Listen brake ! I was talking about when we first were born again ! Our flesh mind has not changed much at all !

In time we do change lots ! And the more we live though our inner man ? The more Christ like we will appear !

Hi spirit1st. With what you have written here I can agree. But I would venture to say that it goes even deeper than just outward behaviour. What God really wants to change is our will. Certainly in thebeginning we are not willing to walk in His righteousness. We are only willing to give up those things which even secular people desire to get rid of, like tobacco, and with some, drugs and alcohol. These are easy with God's help, harder but not impossible in the strength of our own will. But when our wills are changed inot God's will, and we are then willing to walk in total holiness, then our lives take on a new perspective, and God starts to get down and dirty so to speak. Like Jesus who involved Himself intimately in the lives of the downtrodden, accepting their burdens, taking on their filth even to the cross, Jesus today wants to do no less than when He walked this earth. He wants to get deep into your very mind and soul, changing even your very motives, your thought patterns, your will.
Then the changes that come are of the mind, outward appearances are merely the fruit of that. The character of a man is then changhed. And that character is transformed into the very character of God. Sure, it takes time. Sometimes even a lifetime. But what and if someone should decide to no longer live that life? He falls somewhat into a particular sin, gets more deeply involved with it, and refuses to repent after being convicted many times by the Holy Spirit. Take adultery for example. So very easy to slip into. An attractive neighbour moves next door, a casual conversation becomes more personal, an attraction becomes mutual, and Satan's trap is released and you are bound in an illicit relationship that destroys two marriages, estranges two familes, and spirit 1st, this is sin. It is a transgression against God's law, it is an abominations in God's eyes, and trust me and trust God's word spirit1st even more, no adulterer will see the kingdom of God. Regardless of whether he ever professed the name of Jesus or not. How many times have you seen this spirit1st in our churches? How many times have you witnessed Christians seperating, then progressing to divorce, then remarrying with the former wife/husband and children just down the street? The NT is redolent with warnings against sin. And remember, the letters of the NT are written to churches; to Christians. They are warned not to steal, not to commti adultery, not to worship idols, not to covet, not to lie, not to murder. Why? Because....
blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revel. 22:14,15.)
And....
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inhereit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived!! neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminite, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, not thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9,10.
 
Before Salvation we do not read the bible or study it or even live in truth ! After salvation we still only know the carnal trues ! It takes time to grow in Truth with the correct understanding ! Young Christians will not know LOTS !
The elders in the LORD should know much more ?

We should have experience more ! I have entered GOD new Rest once! Had the rivers of living water once 1 Dead twice 1 raised the dead three times!
Been healed lots in different ways ?

been to lots of different kinds of churches ! Had the LORD tell me to do lots of different things to do ! Say appeared to make no sense! But after doing them ? Saw the miracles !

I have argued with the LORD ! Thinking I knew best ! But never was correct ! Thank GOD HE was Always correct ! Now I know I trust In Him and not our thinking !

blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revel. 22:14,15.)
And....
This just Shows satan or the demons can Not enter New Jerusalem and are bound to the earth !


2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

That just shows He already created many new things and has more ahead of us !
He has a new rest 1 the rivers of living water is a new thing for us and being new creatures is new and gives us His Holy Ghost which is new !
Creates a new heaven and earth ! Makes Us new kings and New Priests ! New laws and priesthood !

The carnal type preachers are Still preaching the old covenant .When it gone ! We are now under the New Covenant and New testament ! Which is Jesus Christ !

they mostly do not preach all the old testament / But most do about collecting monies and getting workers !

Tithing was to take care of the priest tribe ! Working was force!


Now we live under the laws of Jesus , Love and Faith ! Those are the Only Laws HE writes in our Heart 1
the New Priest tribe which all who are Born again belong to Judah !

He the High Priest of the tribe of Judah ! we are the lower Priest under Him of the tribe of JUDAH !
It the new Priest tribe !

Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.


Heb_7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.


Rev_5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Heb_4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Heb_5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Rev_1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev_21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
This means Everything 100% !He started with eternal life , then us being new creatures, the new rest 1 The baptism of the Holy Ghost ! Later the earth and the heavens we see !

Rev_21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Most men just see the carnal ! First we must have the spirit of truth or we too see all things carnal ! Living by sight!

Unless we are in a strong relationship with God ! We will not see much truth or the correct understanding 1 Because some things do sound good in our flesh thinking !

Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,

Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb_8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.



Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom_11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom_9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


the young Christian still thinks very carnal !

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb_5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

2Co_12:15 And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

Because much He taught ? Did not make sense to most !
Because it spiritually discerned ! The spirit of truth has to open our understanding !
But it hard Once we have been under a preach or teachers that did not know much spiritually !

Lots of teachings sound good to the flesh thinker !
Hope this blesses someone !
 
What you do Will, is say one thing but act another, and THAT is NOT a laughable matter.

And sadly, you seem to rely on your intelligence and have no place for God to do supernatural things.
I used to be just like you. So please, spare me the display of human reasoning. It's not impressive to me anymore.

This is the bottom line.
If you think that you are growing in understanding, appreciation towards the Scriptures, then you are my brother in Christ. We shouldn't be arguing, we should be friends and get to know each other.

Your attitude towards me so far, a person who disagrees with you, shows that you only care about defeating me, and showing me my own folly with your superior reasoning. I personally don't mind that. I am stupid, and I know boast in my own weakness, because I want to tell others that it is God who rule my mind, not myself anymore.

I hope if this conversation does nothing else, it would remind you that the desire for superiority is a natural (as in the opposite of supernatural) human trait. We all have that, but with God's help we can overcome it, and start to use it for His Glory not ours. And one of the indication of this happening is that we become filled with love for others, which I haven't seen shown here in our conversation.

I'll let you have the last words -- and I will read and appreciate it. This is not patronizing, I'm done with that also.
 
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the young Christian still thinks very carnal !

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb_5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

2Co_12:15 And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

Because much He taught ? Did not make sense to most !
Because it spiritually discerned ! The spirit of truth has to open our understanding !
But it hard Once we have been under a preach or teachers that did not know much spiritually !

Lots of teachings sound good to the flesh thinker !
Hope this blesses someone !

This!!!
Thank you so much for mentioning this.
Young (infant, baby, teknia) Christians. There are millions of them out there. Broken-hearted, loss, stressed, and despaired.
Don't label them, help them.
Help them grow not with your intellectual-pounding, invite them over to your house, read the Scriptures with them, tell them why and how God is real in your own life.

It is *the* commission that our Lord command us to do.
 
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And sadly, you seem to rely on your intelligence and have no place for God to do supernatural things.
I used to be just like you. So please, spare me the display of human reasoning. It's not impressive to me anymore.

This is the bottom line.
If you think that you are growing in understanding, appreciation towards the Scriptures, then you are my brother in Christ. We shouldn't be arguing, we should be friends and get to know each other.

Your attitude towards me so far, a person who disagrees with you, shows that you only care about defeating me, and showing me my own folly with your superior reasoning. I personally don't mind that. I am stupid, and I know boast in my own weakness, because I want to tell others that it is God who rule my mind, not myself anymore.

I hope if this conversation does nothing else, it would remind you that the desire for superiority is a natural (as in the opposite of supernatural) human trait. We all have that, but with God's help we can overcome it, and start to use it for His Glory not ours. And one of the indication of this happening is that we become filled with love for others, which I haven't seen shown here in our conversation.

I'll let you have the last words -- and I will read and appreciate it. This is not patronizing, I'm done with that also.


Because God does NOT do supernatural things, He does spiritual things. I'm not sure why you don't get that? I'm not here to impress you will, just to address your errors in conveying God's Word. "I used to be like you" is nothing more than condescending dismissiveness.

I care ONLY about God's Word first, especially on public forums, as I have NO idea who or what you are. To many trolls online. Why would you come on a forum and not expect to be challenged? Your perception of me is NOT born out of Spiritual maturity as far as I can see.

What this conversation reveals is your sense that I am correcting you by scripture which you perceive to be a bad thing, so you claim the morally superior position to engender sympathy.
I don't equate error in scriptural exegesis as stupidity and I don't play the Christian love card to make myself seem superior.

I do trust you learn some things, but that is up to you and your submission to the Holy Spirit, of which I have NO control.
 
As I read this thread I am sadly grieved at the competitive attitude going on. The animosity and aggression being broadcasted between a few who both feel they are so much more spiritual that some others is disgraceful ! This proves to me that those attempting to find fault with the others involved, are both inmature and need to go back to Scripture and read what Jesus said in John 13:35. Most assuredly neither the command to love one another surely is being ignored. Perhaps anyone who has any doubt about name calling needs to reread the riles for TJ. I know them very well as I was reminded of them sometime ago by a infraction that stays there as long as i am on TJ.

If you must say something rather snarky do it with a private message or don' say it all !
 
I see what you are saying Jason and I caution you to just receive and grow now. It IS apparent that you are submitting to God and this is obviously new to you. I pray God Blesses you greatly as you submit to Him. This is you, your will that is submitting here. Be comfortable in submitting to God.

See what Jesus said in Matthew 19; When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astounded and said, “Who then can be saved?”Jesus looked straight at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

WITH God is the key.




Thanks for the post. I'll think on what you wrote and even in spite of me He's finally making it 'click' that I am to look to Christ and not me. Thanks again.

jason
 
yeah for me though it was about as strong mentally as you describe but i have no Joy in it, never really did, and i never really trusted God, i can't recall when the Spirit told me anything i ask he would answer, it was probably within a month or two of receiving the HS, but i didn't believe it, so i went a few months being decieved about some pretty serious stuff, due to seeking that knowledge from man, not God.
and now i'm starting to get back into that communion you talk about but i'm being bootstrapped far beyond what i can talk about, certainly not online.
in fact, from your testimony Jason i can probably safely speculate you're in the same boat i am. that is. 1 out of 1000 believers.. who are 1 out of 50 unbelievers.

you've probably had the Holy Spirit come upon you. i have, didn't like it actually. in Jesus word's, if i can recall correctly "you would have nothing of my Spirit"
lost one anointing, gained another a couple months later, haven't been doing much as of late.
and most believers i know don't even believe such a thing is possible.

a few weeks back: "where is your fruit?"


yeah for me though it was about as strong mentally as you describe but i have no Joy in it, never really did, and i never really trusted God, i can't recall when the Spirit told me anything i ask he would answer, it was probably within a month or two of receiving the HS, but i didn't believe it, so i went a few months being decieved about some pretty serious stuff, due to seeking that knowledge from man, not God.
and now i'm starting to get back into that communion you talk about but i'm being bootstrapped far beyond what i can talk about, certainly not online.
in fact, from your testimony Jason i can probably safely speculate you're in the same boat i am. that is. 1 out of 1000 believers.. who are 1 out of 50 unbelievers.

you've probably had the Holy Spirit come upon you. i have, didn't like it actually. in Jesus word's, if i can recall correctly "you would have nothing of my Spirit"
lost one anointing, gained another a couple months later, haven't been doing much as of late.
and most believers i know don't even believe such a thing is possible.

a few weeks back: "where is your fruit?"

Hello Eldon. I actually hear a lot of what you wrote or went through much of what you said. I know for a fact some wouldnt even think that is possible. I grew up always believing in God but I also studied physics/math, the sciences, etc... I have to see how things work and generaly I need to see the linkage of things before I understand them. So basically even though I believed in God I would have dismissed anyone claimming anything near what we've talked about. It shook me up so much I even had to learn early on NOT to believe everything since after what happened to me, I began to think anything was possible. Things arent perfect and some days are better than others but Ive seen the goodness of God enough to smash the view I had of Him before. He was only a mighty, strong judge before. Although He still is a God who could crush me and be perfectly righteous and just to do so, Ive since found that He is also a loving God. Even to someone such as me. I never considered that before.
 
. Things arent perfect and some days are better than others but Ive seen the goodness of God enough to smash the view I had of Him before. He was only a mighty, strong judge before. Although He still is a God who could crush me and be perfectly righteous and just to do so, Ive since found that He is also a loving God. Even to someone such as me. I never considered that before.

Hello Jason.

Refreshing to see that you noticed that God is a loving God.

I like to see that emphasis Jason, much closer to the real truth about Jesus Christ.

Is there any greater love than the love Jesus displayed for you and I.

Amen Jason.
 
Once saved always saved (OSAS) is the only doctrine which has full understanding of God's love.

Non-OSAS believe that God loved us enough to send His Son to die for us when we were still sinners, but after becoming children of God if we don't endure or don't bear enough fruit God will send us to hell! In other words, the Christian is less loved by God, than the sinner for whom Christ died!

But the bible says how much more shall we be saved because of Christ:

Rom 5:9 "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!"
Rom 5:10 "For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

God's love did not end after Jesus died on the cross. God's love is still keeping us saved until the end:

Rom 8:38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[b] neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love.39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Amen Brother James ! I fully agree 100% !
Outwardly I am hopeless ! Inwardly , I have full Faith in HIM 100%

Love to see people Stand in faith , no matter how things appear or no matter who comes against that Faith ! Thank You LORD Jesus for the faith in many ! We do now and Forever more ? Give all the Glory and Honor to You alone !
Bless this site and those who help it in the might name of Our LORD JESUS !
 
Once saved always saved (OSAS) is the only doctrine which has full understanding of God's love.

Non-OSAS believe that God loved us enough to send His Son to die for us when we were still sinners, but after becoming children of God if we don't endure or don't bear enough fruit God will send us to hell! In other words, the Christian is less loved by God, than the sinner for whom Christ died!

But the bible says how much more shall we be saved because of Christ:

Rom 5:9 "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!"
Rom 5:10 "For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

God's love did not end after Jesus died on the cross. God's love is still keeping us saved until the end:

Rom 8:38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[b] neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love.39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Yes, I call it eternal security, and not OSAS. It comes from the understanding, appreciation and even a revelation of God's great grace. His grace is always flowing toward us, His children, as Christ's blood---always flowing and perpetually cleansing, His Spirit having sealed us in Christ, making us children of the Most High God, adopted into His family, never to be rejected.
 
Unless we can understand our beginning in JESUS CHRIST is a Spiritual beginning and ending? then we will never understand salvation ! and Not much more either !

Gal_3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

God gives us a New Spirit which is in Christ JESUS ! That our beginning !

Without it ? We have No relationship with God , though our LORD JESUS CHRIST 1
We just dead spiritually to GOD !

1Pe_3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
 
You can't lose what you didn't earn...

So I just heard a pastor speak about this in a great way! ... thought I'd share!!
"The eternal security of God's sheep is a closed case. As John 10:28 states, 'no one will snatch them out of my hand'. You can't lose something that you never earned in the first place.... you didn't earn your salvation through good behavior, so you can't lose it through bad behavior. Those people who fall away from God were never saved in the first place, or their personal sanctification process takes a bit longer than others."​

Totally agree! This is the way I always learned it. Good luck in your quest!



In Christ,
 
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