once saved, always saved?

[DutchChristian]

OSAS indeed is to many a hidden idol, and to many their favourite pet doctrine.

We must remember: we walk by faith and not by sight, it is always important to remember ourselves we have to surrender ourselves to GOD daily!

We must Abide in the Vine

John 15:
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the Vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me.

5 I Am the Vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing.

We cannot bear fruit of our own: we need to surrender to The Lord Jesus Christ!

Luke 9:
23 And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

There is such great Peace and joy to be only found in The Lord Jesus Christ: the less of ourselves the More of The Lord Jesus Christ O Hallelujah what a Blessed way to life is found in total surrender and dependance upon our Lord and Saviour The Lord Jesus Christ!

What joy and great peace if i die to my own self more and to live fully for Him, what great PEACE

Romans 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

God Bless you,
DutchChristian

 

[Mikejerrir1]

No way !!!!!!!!!!!! 2 Tim 3:5, if we can't loose our salvation,why all the take heeds in the bible,read Mark 13:13

 

[Mikejerrir1]

We must fight to the end Read 1 cor.9:24-27 also 1 cor 10:1-12

 

[Mikejerrir1]

Please read Romans 11:1-21

 

[spirit1st]

Being SELF Righteous is the problem ! Thinking you have made your self righteous daily is the problem !
God does not lose His children ! Once we have been born again ? He takes over as head of His household and keep His family in line !

He does it and Not US ! At Salvation we are babies in our New creature! Think about it ? Would you kick a baby out because it made a mistake ? God will not 1 He Never leaves us or forsakes us ! We Can put our trust in HIM! Yes it by faith !

It always our faith satan attacks ! he wants us to doubt God being able to protect us or carry us Thur ! Doubt the work of satan , NOT GOD!

Those that doubt Eternal life are doubting God power ! They hate us for believing God going to Never leave or forsake us !
Jesus Christ Himself prayed to the Father to keep us ! You think God Not going to keep us NOW?

Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

The Question is ? Will He kept us or Not ! That the big Question and one people have argued and debated ever since Our LORD died on the Cross for US !

I been called everything for not doubting ! So many think they will live perfect lives and never sin and have done perfectly and kept THEMSELVES! !

The Question becomes is it a FREE GIFT or must we live perfect sinless lives now to be able to receive it at the end of our lives in these weak bodies?

Are we so much less than these who live sinless perfect lives ! When we know we try hard and cannot live up to the standards these say they live by ?
I know I sin at times , No matter how I try ? I will make mistakes ! I will miss judge something or say something or do something that not perfect ?
I lived in this weak sin filled body long enough to know ? I need HIM daily too help me though this evil world 1 I personally CANNOT do it by my self !

My trust is in Him , Not my self ! I find the more I live on earth ? The More I must trust in Him and seek His advice in about everything !
I cannot count on me ! I must count on HIS love and mercy and His understanding !

1Pe_4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.


Heb_13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

You think ? He does leave us or forsakes us ? I do not doubt He with me no matter what I do or where i go 1 Thank You LORD JESUS !I put my Full trust in you and not in my self ! personally I do not trust me ! I only trust in HIM!

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


I would hate to live in fear ! Thinking each day I awoke might be the day I lose my salvation ! Thank YOU LORD JESUS I can trust in You and not my self!

Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.



Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal_3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We are just little babies in our spirit at salvation !
1Pe_2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Heb_5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Luk_18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;

I decided many many years ago ! To put my trust in Him ! I am Not going to trust you or anyone else! He enough for me even unto death ! which I look forward to very much! but as long as He can use me even in a small way 1 I am willing to suffer whatever For His glory and Honor 1 I see no life on this planet without Him in my heart as LORD!

Php_4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.

 

[farout]

Deuteronomy 29:29 there is your answer. There is NO human on earth that can say they can explain the Trinity ! If YHWH could eplaained it for our small mind He would have. As humans we can try by using examples like an egg, water, or some outer way, but all do not do the real understanding of God the FATHER, SON JESUS CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT. In truth we have to accept that it is the YHWH has chosen to tell us all we can understand. Firiends we walk by faith ! Blessings.


farout

 

[spirit1st]

I do not like arguing or even debating ! That was nice farout !

The question of eternal life is simple to me !
The question is do we keep or get salvation of ourselves ?
Or does He do it ?

that the real question !

some men feel they are the ones getting it Or keeping it ?
others feel They need Him to keep it in there lives !

The question is ? Which is correct ?

I guess All know ? I put my hope and faith in HIM alone !


Other feel they must keep it ?

I hate to ask this ? but did they ever have a true born -Again experience ? Or are they just hoping there righteousness is enough ?
I not trying to hurt others ! But we need to be Born again ! And it just what it says ! a brand new birth ! we know it when it happens and we never forget that moment ! mine was in 1972 ! I will never forget that moment ! It was so Powerful and i was so full of joy !

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
He will keep His promise once we accept the LORD gospel and HIm from our heart [spirit] as LORD!

look if He kept me ! He will keep anyone ! No doubt in my little mind !

 

[rhilton]

spirit1st,

I'm wondering if we are experiencing something in the area of using different words to say the same thing. We are in agreement that, "JESUS was GOD manifested in the flesh ! In His flesh JESUS was the Only Begotten Son of GOD !" It is when you write, "He was always a part of GOD!" that I am not sure of your belief. I need some clarification here. When you use the term "a part of God" what exactly is your meaning? As I have noted earlier, Scripturally and historically, it has been understood that Jesus is the incarnate God (taking humanity unto Himself), who from eternity was the Logos or Word of God, the second person of the Trinity. Being the Second Person within the Trinity, He shared all aspects of divinity with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Your brother in Christ

 

[spirit1st]

Here is my understanding ? Jesus God the Father and the Holy Ghost are All part of one being ! Which we call GOD! God is not three separate Gods or persons but One God !
That why the jews got so upset! thinking there were two Gods !

We have our lives though our LORD JESUS CHRIST! We serve our LORD JESUS CHRIST and Do everything for His glory and Honor!
He had to lower Himself to come into the flesh !
Jesus Christ is God Word ! He was always with GOD and a Part of God ! He was a real flesh person ! but in His spirit He was always a part of GOD !
He never did anything that was different from what GOD thought !
He came out of GOD ! He returns to GOD !

Php_2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Because He was God and came out of GOD and was always with GOD !

How could HE be Equal with GOD ? If HE not GOD ?

is my Son equal with me ? No of course not 1 But In His flesh He was the Only begotten son of God ! When God turned His back on Him ? He was turning His back on His flesh because it where Jesus took on the sins of the world!

The word did not die then only His body which is Jesus died ! The word went on too hell to free the captives1 For three days and nights He preach His gospel ! freeing many ! The body of Our LORD JESUS laid in the tomb ! It had no life until the third day when OUR LORD AROSE !THANK YOU LORD JESUS !

It easy for people too get a miss understanding of these things ? They can get really mad when they do not clearly understand !
We are Not going too be in perfect agreement in all things ! Our Bond is JESUS CHRIST and HIS CROSS , nothing more !

The Word is Jesus Christ !
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Word is a part of GOD ! just as the Holy Ghost is a part of GOD!
How else could Jesus have the POWER to send back the Holy GHOST !

There is only one throne in heaven and our LORD JESUS sits on it !
Jesus has the fullness of God within HIM ! He lacks nothing of GOD !

Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Revealing Jesus had the POWER to send back the Holy Ghost ! Only God has that power over His own spirit !

God is Not a person to begin with ! God is a Spirit ! They are All part of the same Spirit ! The word the father and the Holy Ghost!
These are not three different persons!

They are all part of GOD !
This is JESUS talking
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Who is the first and last the Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last

Only God !

ThiRev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
this is how JESUS looks in heaven !

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

That His eternal body HE had before coming into the flesh ! He back in it ! He not as He appeared on the cross!

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Just one throne !
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Listen we must do all things as unto Jesus ! Only though Him do we have a relationship with GOD!

And too put our Faith in our LORD and NOT ourselves !

2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Because None of us in the flesh mind or body is perfect ! Thinking we are better or more righteous or do greater works is not Wise!
So many have been tricked to think they are better ? It sad !

i sorry I know it will offend some ?

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Pretty great here ? but it great in most all churches and christian sites !
Just as is eternal life really eternal life or not?

Luk_18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
i really do not like to see others ! Try to get others to not have faith ! Everything we get from God is by Faith !

 

[spirit1st]

Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Php_3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[Stan53]

As I posted prior to this, many verses show that WE can walk / fall away from salvation. It's NOT a matter of LOSING it, it is a matter of our will deciding we no longer wish to follow Christ. In this regard, Jesus will NOT force us to remain committed.

Heb 6:4-6 Heb 10:38-39 Rom 11:22 Phil 2:12, 16, 3:12-14.

There are more but these scriptures are very clear. If we don't do our part, there is no security what-so-ever in salvation. Look at the parable of the seed and the sower.
Jesus explains this parable in Luke 8:11-18;

11 “Now this is what the parable means: The seed is the word of God.12 Those along the path are the ones who hear—then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those that fall on rock are the ones who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but they have no root—they believe for a while but in a time of testing they fall away. 14 As for what fell among the thorns—these are the ones who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and they do not bring fruit to maturity. 15 But as for that in the good soil—these are the ones who, having heard with an honest and good heart, hold firmly onto the word and bear fruit through patient endurance.
16 “No one after lighting a lamp covers it with a container or puts it under a bed, but places it on a lampstand, so that those who come in may see the light. 17 For nothing is hidden that will not be disclosed, nor secret that will not be known and come to light.
18 “Take care, then, how you hear! For whoever has—more will be given to him; and whoever does not have—even what he seems to have will be taken away from him.”

Notice there are four groups here. The first in V12 don't receive salvation. The second in V13 are saved but fall away. The third in V14 are saved but never mature, and the fourth group in V15 are saved and mature. Now notice what Jesus says here, "hold firmly onto the word and bear fruit through patient endurance."

 

[spirit1st]

1Jn_2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Jn_3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


The Question is ? Are we in Him or NOT?

I sure I am in Him and of HIM and belong to Him 100%

Eternal life means one thing ? eternal Life !

Then we need to ask ? What is LIFE ?
Life is a relationship with God though JESUS CHRIST that Never ends 1

What is death ?
Death is no relationship with GOD !

Joh_11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

We cannot be separated ever


Rom_8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Believe it or NOT ?

I do not doubt ! I only doubt me ! Never HIS perfect living word !

 

[farout]

I do not like arguing or even debating ! That was nice farout !

The question of eternal life is simple to me !
The question is do we keep or get salvation of ourselves ?
Or does He do it ?

that the real question !

some men feel they are the ones getting it Or keeping it ?
others feel They need Him to keep it in there lives !

The question is ? Which is correct ?

I guess All know ? I put my hope and faith in HIM alone !


Other feel they must keep it ?

I hate to ask this ? but did they ever have a true born -Again experience ? Or are they just hoping there righteousness is enough ?
I not trying to hurt others ! But we need to be Born again ! And it just what it says ! a brand new birth ! we know it when it happens and we never forget that moment ! mine was in 1972 ! I will never forget that moment ! It was so Powerful and i was so full of joy !

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
He will keep His promise once we accept the LORD gospel and HIm from our heart [spirit] as LORD!

look if He kept me ! He will keep anyone ! No doubt in my little mind !

Spirit1st: Here is my take on the OSAS or the side that's the position tha you can fall out of salvation. This very elementry Doctrine and is not an issue that deserves such a heated dialogue, When you think about it the only ones that should be really worried about it is. i Only those who have not continued to mature in their Faith in Jesus Christ have any reason for concern. Those who have half heartedly made a commitment to become a follower of Jesus Christ are the ones that should be very concerned. Perhaps like a good many who have said "the prayer" anf then "ask Jesus into my heart" and then someone handed then a track on "now that you are a Christian" which the said they would read, but never got to it. That is the person that would have very good reason to cling to osas, or the one who is not ever begun to mature in Christ, but goes to church every once in a while because they are under conviction and because they still are getting drunk or high on drugs, are trying to bed every woman they can and do know they are not saved,

When you boil it all down a person who is continuing to walk by faith, and year after year is maturing in Christ has no reason to worrynot even one bit whatsoevere. That's not to say that there trials and testings that can challenge, and yes bring us to the valley and shadow of death itself. One only has to read the book of Job to know how complex being surrendered to the LORD can be. But a true follower ofJesus Christ has no reason to doubt their salvation ! Perhaps a new believer may not fully understand what surrendering to Jesus Christ and becoming a genuine follower consists of. Maturity in Jesus Christ is does not happen in a day, but years of continuing hour by hour, day by day, month by month and year by year walking and being in the WORD and trusting the Lord Jesus Christ. The road in not wide, infact rather narrow, but many try but few keep on that narrow road.

So if you are a growing in Jesus Christ there is no real concern about if you are genuienly a born again Christian, You are sealed by the Holy Spirit and will not fall from Grace. No reason to keep the dialogue going on Once Saved Always Saved. Now Go serve Your King ! Blessings.


farout

 

[spirit1st]

That sounds pretty good ! Except for one problem ? some never mature , they stay babies in the Lord the whole lives ! Because they are taught by man and not the Holy Ghost !

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


God does not cast them aside ! they just do not have much if any rewards ?

We are sealed by the Holy Ghost at salvation ! No one can break that seal but our LORD! And He already died for All our sins 100% !

1Co_3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co_9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
Heb_5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
1Pe_2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

That why people need to be taught to read there bible and too ask the Holy Ghost the correct understanding 1 Our carnal thinking will lead us in lots of messed up ways ? Or others who we accept as truth ?

I think of this scripture lots and do not want to lack faith !
Luk_18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?


Faith is preached against LOTS ! One Christian type site told me NOT to preach healing or fasting or any faith in those areas !

I personal think many churches do not want others to know it a One on One Relationship forever more !

they want to decide GOD will for all !

Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[Ophel]

OSAS is just a label that is used pejoratively by many in order to castigate those who have an understanding of the grace of God that keeps His own, and like the Good Shepherd He is, will leave the ninety and nine to seek out the one (who is His) who is lost, who like the good father of the prodigal, knows he will return and waits patiently and expectantly to reward him when He does.

 

[rhilton]

I appreciate your timely responses.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You state "God is Not a person to begin with ! God is a Spirit !", which is a more clear statement as to your beliefs. From my perspective, you are not correctly understanding the concept of personhood. The essence or being of a person is their nature. An example can be found in humanity as a creation in the image of God. As I stated earlier, there are over 7 billion persons on the earth and each individual person has the qualities of body, spirit, and soul, which have nothing to do with them as to their personhood. Each individual is considered a person because they have human essence or being, which is an image of the invisible Triune God. If I ask how many persons there are on the earth, I would have to say that there are over 7 billion persons, each designated as a human being because each has human essence or being. If I ask how many human essences there are on the earth I would have to say only one, with every individual being having human essence found within the idea of humanity. As with human beings having been created in the image of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we find within the Holy Trinity, that there is only one God with each individual or person within the Godhead having the one essence or being of God.

To bring the theology of personhood I find that the best example can be seen in the following:

Human nature or essence can be illustrated by a circle and found within that circle are the 7 billion persons of humanity who have body, soul, and spirit.
Divine nature or essence can be illustrated by a circle and found within that circle are the three Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit who are spirit. The only exception is that of the Son of God who took humanity unto Himself in the Incarnation.

 

[farout]

That sounds pretty good ! Except for one problem ? some never mature , they stay babies in the Lord the whole lives ! Because they are taught by man and not the Holy Ghost !

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


God does not cast them aside ! they just do not have much if any rewards ?

We are sealed by the Holy Ghost at salvation ! No one can break that seal but our LORD! And He already died for All our sins 100% !

1Co_3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co_9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
Heb_5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
1Pe_2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

That why people need to be taught to read there bible and too ask the Holy Ghost the correct understanding 1 Our carnal thinking will lead us in lots of messed up ways ? Or others who we accept as truth ?

I think of this scripture lots and do not want to lack faith !
Luk_18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?


Faith is preached against LOTS ! One Christian type site told me NOT to preach healing or fasting or any faith in those areas !

I personal think many churches do not want others to know it a One on One Relationship forever more !

they want to decide GOD will for all !

Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

spirit1st: If one does not grow then remember what Jesus taught about the seeds that fell on different ground ? Which one would be someone that does not grow>


farout

 

[jason h]

Im glad it's not based on my will to follow. My life has proven over and over my tending to wander. He has also proven over and over that it is Him that comes after me. Not the other way around. I guess thats why He's called the good shepard and we are called the sheep. We are dumb, prone to wander, have no power to protect ourselves. Salvation is of the Lord from start to finish. No matter how you debate this issue it basically comes down to this. Those that are His, He will keep.

Im confused as to how a regenerate man could walk away from God? How could a new creature leave God? These are Gods works on the persons life. As a sheep, Im glad to have a shepard. You see, its the ones who dont see their need as a sheep who go at this in there own power. Why do they need a shepard to lead them home? They have this covered by their mighty right arm.

I see all too well the verses about enduring to the end and those always scared me, and still get me at times, but Im trusting not in my ability to endure but in the one who says that no one can snatch them from my hand. I have to trust His ability to keep me vs my ability to hold to Him.

Any of you have kids? If walking down a street next to rush hour traffic, would you hold his hand or just let him hold your hand? If you think it odd or wrong not to hold his hand tight, its good to know that you are a better dad than God.

 

[Stan53]

Im glad it's not based on my will to follow. My life has proven over and over my tending to wander. He has also proven over and over that it is Him that comes after me. Not the other way around. I guess thats why He's called the good shepard and we are called the sheep. We are dumb, prone to wander, have no power to protect ourselves. Salvation is of the Lord from start to finish. No matter how you debate this issue it basically comes down to this. Those that are His, He will keep.

Im confused as to how a regenerate man could walk away from God? How could a new creature leave God? These are Gods works on the persons life. As a sheep, Im glad to have a shepard. You see, its the ones who dont see their need as a sheep who go at this in there own power. Why do they need a shepard to lead them home? They have this covered by their mighty right arm.

I see all too well the verses about enduring to the end and those always scared me, and still get me at times, but Im trusting not in my ability to endure but in the one who says that no one can snatch them from my hand. I have to trust His ability to keep me vs my ability to hold to Him.

Any of you have kids? If walking down a street next to rush hour traffic, would you hold his hand or just let him hold your hand? If you think it odd or wrong not to hold his hand tight, its good to know that you are a better dad than God.

Hi Jason,

The fact is you DID exercise your will by accepting Jesus. Your will doesn't stop there, it continues your whole life. What many people DON'T do is sit down and COUNT THE COST. Be that as it may, God is always faithful regardless of how faithless we are or how little resolve we end up with, hence Phil 2:12.
The issue is NOT about who God can keep, as it relates to His ability. There issue is about whether we can fall away or into apostasy. The scriptures I have previously provided show that we can and do fall into apostasy. Paul talks about the Great Apostasy in 2 Thess 2:1-4, and in V3 he clearly says; "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first"

Your confusion about a regenerate man walking away is because you accept a doctrine that is NOT supported in scripture, so when you read scripture it make no sense to you. When we are saved we are reborn in the Spirit, not in our carnal nature. We have to be reborn so that we do NOT have sin. That doesn't mean we CAN'T sin or that we won't. Just like in our carnal nature we start off sinless but eventually fall into sin. The unregenerate or regenerate man is wording from Calvinism, NOT the Bible. When the Bible talks about being dead, it means either actually dead in body, or effectually dead in body. Death has no meaning in the spiritual realm, as we NEVER die spiritually. Salvation provides us with Eternal Life as the end goal. Lack of salvation ends with the Second Death of our body, Rev 21:8, and eternal separation from God in our spirit, which the Bible calls torment and punishment, but NOT torture.

Again Phil 2:12 admonishes us to WORK OUT our salvation, because it is God that works WITHIN us. The onus is on us to DO what we know or have inner conviction by the Holy Spirit to do. We can still ignore that and the consequence of doing so is apostasy. All the warnings in scripture would NOT be there if we could not fall away. Again the issue is NOT His ability to keep us, it is our ability, without looking to God, to maintain our walk.

I have 4 grown children, and yes when I walked with them years ago, I held their hand and sometimes they held mine, and I walked on the outside. I did the same thing with my wife. That is how men act with their family. It's a matter of being the protector, but the Bible also teaches us that we need to TRUST in God as a man to keep our families, and NOT do it all in our own strength. God is MUCH more than a Father, and ONLY relating to Him as such, robs us of ALL that God is. God created man with free will and that has never been taken away from us.

God Bless.

 

[spirit1st]

The called can fall away !Most do !
The elect cannot !

But I do wonder why Faith is preached so hard against! when without it ? We cannot have eternal life !

Rom_3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand

2Co_1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.


Gal_3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;

Php_3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


Heb_10:38 Now the just shall live by faith:

1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation

Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith takes a action ! That action is LOVE!

I do understand that satan uses people to attack our faith ! trying to plant seeds of doubt !
i pretty sure that why we are not seeing the miracles we should be seeing in God children !

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mat_10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Act_26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?


This is just what I tend to believe !

Rom_14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Doubt really hurts us in lots of ways ! satan saw what took place at the churches beginning !

Our nation and the world is in serious trouble !