Once saved always saved???

[QuietProtest4t]

Though alot of christians believe in once saved always. I'm not sure about it
I was never taught that. I don't judge anyone, I mean I do know that what God gives no one can take away
But what about when people backslide? Some christians do get carnal minded and go back to their old ways. Are they still considered christians?


(Rom 8:6-7 KJV) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. {7} Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Thus saith the Lord, what iniquity have your fathers found in Me, that they are gone far from Me, and have walked after vanity, and are become vain?" (Jeremiah 2:5). In the vanity of their own minds and hearts, they determined God was no longer important to them.

 

[MAJ52653]

As a general thing, that is the one point of Calvinism where I tend to agree with Calvin and not Arminius. After all, if one is saved, sanctified and Spirit filled, and there is nothing you can do to merit grace, how can you lose it? How can the Holy Spirit erase your being born again? Yet there are so many verses urging you to endure to the end. So I will play it safe. I will endure to the end, and thus I will have been 'once saved, allways saved'.

 

[QuietProtest4t]

But?

Yes I agree brother with enduring to the end. Because if we truly love God. We don't have to worry about the question of losing salvation. But I still ponder for others, I mean I know salvation cannot be taken from you. But can people take salvation from themselves? By deciding to go back to their old ways?

 

[ladylovesJesus]

I think that is what it means. If you walk away from Jesus and go back to the old way of living. You have basically rejected Jesus.

Backsliders are welcomed back. He is always waiting for people to come back when they stray away. The choice is theirs.

God bless

LLJ :rainbow: :rose:

 

[Tonyb]

Thus saith the Lord, what iniquity have your fathers found in Me, that they are gone far from Me, and have walked after vanity, and are become vain?" (Jeremiah 2:5). In the vanity of their own minds and hearts, they determined God was no longer important to them.[/QUOTE]


Someone can walk away from their salvation, I'm sure many of us have seen that.
But do they die again spirtually? I guess if they do, they are lost and back on the path that leads to destruction.

I suppose the thing to do is to maintain a spiritual life, if we don't there are no guarantees.

 

[maranatha]

No..once saved is not enough

No...Bible says, we should walk in the way of salvation. Once we are saved, we are not always saved. We have to walk the walk God wants us to be. That is why the Bible says, Rev 22:11 -he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Jesus has all the authority to remove our name from the Book of life any time.
Read the following.Jesus talks to the church who are saved, baptised and supposed to be called as the bride as follows:- He is a god of grace but he is a god of Justice too..
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the firstworks; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
So we should keep our lives holy all the time. If not, we don't know which time he comes and we will be lost forever.
May God bless all of us to know that once saved is not enough.

 

[Faithful Son]

That's true maranatha. God bless your heart.

Romans 11:22
Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

John 15:1-2 NASB
1"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

2"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

John 15:1-2 KJV
1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

If we do not bear fruit, the Father removes us from Jesus, for Jesus deserves more than rotten fruit.

God bless

 

[ladylovesJesus]

I have just been reminded of a verse in the Bible which tells us to work out our salvation daily and I found it too. Praise God. Here it is in this passage from Phil.2.

Philippians 2
1 SO BY whatever [appeal to you there is in our mutual dwelling in Christ, by whatever] strengthening and consoling and encouraging [our relationship] in Him [affords], by whatever persuasive [a]incentive there is in love, by whatever participation in the [Holy] Spirit [we share], and by whatever depth of affection and compassionate sympathy,

2Fill up and complete my joy by living in harmony and being of the same mind and one in purpose, having the same love, being in full accord and of one harmonious mind and intention.

3Do nothing from factional motives [through contentiousness, strife, selfishness, or for unworthy ends] or prompted by conceit and empty arrogance. Instead, in the true spirit of humility (lowliness of mind) let each regard the others as better than and superior to himself [thinking more highly of one another than you do of yourselves].

4Let each of you esteem and look upon and be concerned for not [merely] his own interests, but also each for the interests of others.

5Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:]

6Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not [c]think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [d]or retained,

7But stripped Himself [of all privileges and [e]rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.

8And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross!

9Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has [f]freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name,

10That in (at) the name of Jesus every knee [g]should (must) bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11And every tongue [[h]frankly and openly] confess and acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ).

13[Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while [j]effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and [k]delight.

14Do all things without grumbling and faultfinding and complaining [[l]against God] and [m]questioning and doubting [among yourselves],

15That you may show yourselves to be blameless and guiltless, innocent and uncontaminated, children of God without blemish (faultless, unrebukable) in the midst of a crooked and wicked generation [spiritually perverted and perverse], among whom you are seen as bright lights (stars or beacons shining out clearly) in the [dark] world...

God bless

LLJ :rainbow: :rose:

 

[Woz'umoya]

Saved for eternity

Thanks for all those interesting and helpful comments and verses. I agree about needing to continue walking in the light and working out our salvation but I suppose there is some validity in saying that if you are saved you are saved for eternity. The Lord knows who is saved and so those written in the Book of Life were, in the Lord's eyes, saved from before creation and are saved for eternity.

The difficulty from our perspective is that we don't know who is saved and who isn't. There are, as we all know, those who will say: 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?'

And of course all those virgins thought they were going to the wedding feast, but ...

So as has been so well put by all of you, we can never be complacent but always seeking to be fruitful branches.

And, as an after thought, there is that sin that is unto death (1 John 5:16). Is this the same as the sin that will not be forgiven? What sort of sin is a sin unto death and can apparently not be forgiven?
Woz'Umoya

 

[Janette]

Grace, Works, Death, and Damnation...

I think it's more a matter of trying to decide if the Salvation was ever genuine in the first place, not if it "sticks" or can be lost.

Many people don't seem to understand that you become a new Creature upon salvation. The "old" you wouldn't even notice if something was wrong perhaps...but the "new" you can instinctively feel all of the dangers of the secular world's "shades of gray" when it comes to sin.

It works like this:

The Law tells you to straighten up and fly right so that you may become Holy. As a rule, humanity failed on epic grand proportions to accomplish this. God gave us about 2000 years or so with the law scribbled in books and we didn't care. We "did what was right in our own eyes." Anway, justice is never as simple as a rule book and God knew this *before* He gave us the Law, and in fact gave us the Law to *prove* that regulations alone were not enough (among other reasons).

Grace tells you to straighten up and fly right because you *are* Holy. With Christ we died to sin, it holds no *dominion* over us - we are *guaranteed* to be stronger than it's whisperings -- but we have to *choose* not to stoop to continue to be beneath it.

This is what it means to live in the Spirit. You *feel* God is with you and in you and when you approach an act that isn't in accord with that presence, you feel that too.

The difficulty is trying to judge the break point:

A man may accept Jesus, be Saved, then get into an argument and murder another man in a fight. Is he condemned to Hell for murder or going to Heaven for having been saved?

We mortals cannot know. We cannot be *sure* his Salvation was genuine, but the forgiveness or lack thereof for the act of murder depends on it.

This is why we are told not to judge anyone (even ourselves). We can't see the big picture.

All we can do is look at a man's life now and say "well he spent 30 years as a decent young man, then started gambling, then stealing, then he said he found God, but then he murdered another man, etc."

We can't know his heart. We can make *conjectures* from the patterns of his actions, but we can't know his heart.

What we *do* know is that God isn't looking for a list of actions. When the Book of Life is opened and the names are read, there will be no accounting of Bill -- the guy who found the cure for cancer but who also drowned a box of kittens. There will simply be a listing for Bill -- the guy who accepted Jesus. The entire record of sins is rendered null on that point.

If you truly believe, with all your heart, and all your mind, and all your soul that you love God and have accepted Him as your savior - you are probably fine.

But can you *wilfully* engage in known sinful acts if your acceptance is genuine? You may make a mistake here and there, but if you are casually embracing those things which break the heart of our Lord, then perhaps you need to reassess whether or not you were ever really saved in the first place.

When I see a fellow Christian sliding I will ask that person "How do you approach this action as a Christian?" I am then absolutely silent. I don't even wait for a response. Note that I have not said they are doing anything wrong. I have simply asked them to pause and consider how their actions serve or deny God. The rest is up to them.

 

[Chad]

You walk away from Jesus (who is our Savior), your walking away from Salvation. Logically, it makes sense flat out. If we need Jesus for Salvation, we obviously lose it if we walk away from Him.

As far as those who believe, yet have no genuine relationship with Christ, or no sincere final last cry...

Matthew 25:11-13

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

You cannot lose salvation from sins you've confessed, assuming you repent as well.

Acts 3:18-20

18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,

GOD will forgive backsliders as well who return sincerely with a genuine heart for repentance. Jesus said so with the example below of forgiving each other. Sinners, forgiving each other. How much more GOD Himself will forgive us?

Luke 17:3-4

3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”

 

[Cody]

I don't believe in "Once saved, always saved", I believe in "IF saved, always saved".

Ephesians 4:30
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."


If you are saved by the power of God, you will endure till the end.

1 Peter 1:5
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."


Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Romans 8:38-39
38 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."


We cannot be unborn.

John 3:6-8
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."


The truth is Jesus and He is with us forever.

2 John 2
"For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever."


No man will pluck us from God's hand.

John 10:29
"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."


If you sincerely come to Jesus Christ and really believe what He did on the cross, you will be saved. I believe I'm stained by the blood of Christ and there is no way I'm going to try to wash it away. I am sealed by the Holy Spirit and there is NO man going to pluck me from the hand of God. I was born January 5th, 1989 and I was born again on May 13th, 2002 and I don't believe in being unborn.

A lot of people are going to say a little prayer and think they're saved, then turn away from God. Few will come humbly to God with all of their heart and give their life to Him. The Bible tells us that there will be people that think they're saved, but when God sees them and they don't have a wedding garment on, they will be cast out into hell for eternity to burn.

Matthew 22:12
"And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless."


You may fool the world with your fake smile and the things you do, but one day you're going to stand before a Holy God on judgment day and if you don't have the faith. He will say depart from me, I never knew you.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


If you do not continue to live for God, you was never saved in the first place.

1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

So in conclusion, come to God with a humble heart, confess that Jesus is Lord, that He died on the cross for your sins and rose on the third day. If you believe that and confess your sins, you will be saved. If you believe that, why would you completely turn your back on the Lord? Maybe because you was never saved in the first place.

Romans 10:9
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." KJV

God Bless you all.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Once Saved - Always Saved?

The study notes in my bible say that the "sin unto death" referred to in 1 Jn 5:16, probably refers to the teachings of Gnosticism. Gnosticism basically teaches that matter (that which has weight and can be seen and touched) is bad, but spirit is good. This means that everything our spirit does is good, therefore man cannot sin.

The Gnostics' adamant refusal to turn from this heretical belief and accept accept the truth in this matter would, therefore, be the "sin that brings death."

SLE

 

[JamesTangella]

Once Saved Always Saved ???? No.

BECAUSE, THE WORD OF GOD SAYS "All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." Mark 13:13 (NIV).

 

[evangeline]

Hi everyone,

...a very interesting subject! Here are a couple of verses to add to the discussion

Colossians 1:22-23 says:But now He has reconciled you...to present you holy in His sight, without blemish and free from accusation if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

Hebrews 3:14 says: We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the confidence we had at first.


evangeline

 

[hisd]

Quoted by: QuietProtest4t

But can people take salvation from themselves? By deciding to go back to their old ways?

Here's a question for you, When Jesus died on the cross for man kinds sins 2000 yrs ago, how many sins had you committed? As for me, I had not committed not one sin, I wasn't born yet. So my sins that Jesus died for were all future right? So all my sins were placed on the tree,

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

If then, all my sins are nailed to the cross, and I have received Jesus as my Lord and Savior what sin can I commit that has not been forgiven? ( I am still responsible to ask forgiveness for sins I commit after salvation 1John 1:9 but that is to maintain a close walk with God not keep salvation.) See the bible says Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; So the only payment God will take to forgive sin is to die, That why Jesus died to pay that sin debt.
So you ask "But can people take salvation from themselves?" take a look at

John 10: 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

But take a close look at those verses do you see it, "they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." ANY MAN means YOU also.

Here's another question Where can you go that God is not????

Psalms 139:8 - If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

My son may get mad at me one day and say " I don't love you and I will never be a part of your family, I'M NOT YOUR CHILD" and he may walk away and never see me again, does that mean he's not my son? not at all, he will always be my son, the same is true with God, I will forever be his child and nothing I could do will change that.

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:

So no, you can't lose or walk away from you salvation, you can lose fellowship with God but not salvation.

About the ten virgins

Matt25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

It's funny how people look at this passage of scripture and say "see look five lost their salvation" they always look at the word virgin see see look they were all virgins, being a virgin is not the point, what were five missing? OIL, oil is a picture of the Holly Spirit, see five were saved and five were not. The five that were not looked and acted just like the others, but inside they were lacking salvation.

Don't let satan rob you of the joy, that God has given in salvation.

 

[ladylovesJesus]

The Bible tells us to work out our salvation.

Phil.2.12

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

God bless

LLJ :rainbow: :rose:

 

[spirit1st]

The chosen ,never lose salvation ,because they Never sin!
They are new creatures ,born of GOd .
They have His mind and nature.They will never do evil.
Of course this is talking about there spirit!
The flesh will always sin if we allow it!
It has a sin nature!

the confusion is because?
We tend to judge after the flesh!
All flesh dies because of sin
and because we judge the called as the elect!
These are different.
The chosen are tried !The called are being tried,if they prove worthy? Then they are Born of GOD and part of the body of CHRIST JESUS!
The elect have been tried and found worthy!



1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


The thing we must understand is?
Our spirit is much different than our flesh
Many tend to think ,all scripture is about our flesh!
this is very wrong!
We must think? Which are these scriptures to, our spirit or our soul[mind] or our flesh .the spirit is our main part our flesh is our least!

This scripture is talking about our spirit.Not the flesh .Because all sin flesh at times!
But ,it is the spirit ,Born Again or born of GOD , or Born of the spirit [all the same birth] Which can never sin!
If we understand this?? This we see ? SALVATION is eternal.
We cannot lose salvation ever .Once we are part of HIS household and family!

 

[stephen]

Once saved always saved.......Absolutely......and why not?

Just be sure you stay saved.............Amen?


"Demas hath forsaken me having loved this world"

 

[jiggyfly]

If salvation is based on having your sins forgiven or blotted out then how does this scripture fit?

John 1:29
*The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

It is all about abiding in Christ. He is our eternal rest.

Psalm 27:1
*The Lord is my light and my salvation—
so why should I be afraid?
The Lord protects me from danger—
so why should I tremble?

Psalm 62:2
*He alone is my rock and my salvation,
my fortress where I will never be shaken.

Luke 19:9&10
9*Jesus responded, “Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a son of Abraham. 10*And I, the Son of Man, have come to seek and save those like him who are lost.”

Think of salvation in terms of whom it is and not what it is, because salvation is a person and His name is Jesus.

Jesus told Nicodemus that one must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven but He did not say that everyone who is born again enters.
For one to enter college they first have to graduate from highschool, but that doesn't mean that everyone who graduates from high school enters college. Jesus also told the woman at the well that Father is seeking those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth, so you need to be born of the Spirit in order to worship Father the way He desires but just because someone is enabled to do so doesn't mean that they will.

Everything that Father has promised us rests in Christ Jesus His Son. This is why we must abide in Him. Look at this church in the Book of Revelation.

Revelation 3:20-22
20*“Look! Here I stand at the door and knock. If you hear me calling and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal as friends. 21*I will invite everyone who is victorious to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne. 22*Anyone who is willing to hear should listen to the Spirit and understand what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Here is a church that the Spirit speaks to, and they have seperated themselves from Christ. He is on the outside knocking and waiting for them to let Him in.

Change the way you view or think about salvation from being the thing that Jesus gives you to being the person, Jesus Christ, Himself, and now you will have a sturdy foundation for a salvation doctrine. Once this is settled in you then go and read Jesus' parables, you will be amazed, I promise.