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Old Man Crucified; But Not Dead

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by NetChaplain, Feb 28, 2013.

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  1. #1 NetChaplain, Feb 28, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
    When one chooses to follow the Father’s drawing to Christ (John 6:44) and receives Him (John 1:12; Rev 3:20), what happens to the “old man” or, sin nature? Scripture declares, “That our old man is crucified with Him” (Rom 6:6) and we ourselves are also crucified (Gal 2:20). How the believer understands this issue will determine the understanding of Scriptural doctrine which relates to the condition of one born-again.

    The term “crucified” used in the physical sense is identical to its use in the spiritual sense in that its purpose is to portray the helplessness of one concerning the inability to operate as before. The idea that one being physically crucified, which can last for days, is analogous to the ongoing existence of the sinful nature (old man) within the believer. It being crucified (still on the Cross) is not dead, just powerless to control as before. The difference between us being crucified and our sinful nature being crucified is that the sinful nature is still on the Cross, but we left the Cross with Him.

    The Christian is, “dead to sin”, or in other words—dead to sin’s control (Rom 6:2, 11), but nowhere is it said that the indwelling (Rom 7:17, 20) sin nature is dead to the saint; but rather it continues to impose on the believer its influence, but to no authoritative avail:

    “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof”; “For sin shall not have dominion over you” (Rom 6:12, 14); “For the flesh (sinful nature or old man) lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would” (Gal 5:17).
  2. #2 Barny, Mar 1, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
    Hi NetChaplain,

    This physical life we go through is similar to the wilderness experience the Jews faced after leaving Egypt.
    So we're not in the promised land yet. Hence the "flesh" (called "sinful nature" in NIV Bible) is still in the background hoping to retake control over us. (By the way, in referring to "flesh", "sinful nature", it's not speaking about bad behavior/lifestyle.)

    So who rules in a Christian's life? Is it the flesh or the Spirit?
    Scripture shows us that Christians are not in the flesh.
    Rom 7:5
    For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto

    Rom 8:9
    But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,

    Those who believe in Jesus are not in the flesh. In believing in Jesus they are walking in the Spirit instead.

    You cannot serve 2 masters. It's either the flesh or the Spirit.

    NetChaplain, you said that the flesh "continues to impose on the believer its influence".
    That's true, and we see examples in scripture of it having some successes.
    Gal 3:3
    Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

    However, for the Christian/believer, the old man is dead (by faith).
    Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
    And now in Christ we're:
    Righteous, Rom 4:5
    Holy, Rom 11:16
    Sanctified, Heb 10:10
    Perfected, Heb 10:14
    Cannot sin, 1John 3:9

    All this we have (by faith) when we continue to believe in Jesus. We are made partakers of Christ by believing in him.
    Heb 3:14
    For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence (believing in Jesus) stedfast unto the end;
  3. I personally disagree with the OP and believe that crucifixion equals death. The purpose of crucifixion is not to have us hanging on the cross.. but to kill us. Its purpose is to kill the self, the "I, me, my" , Paul writes: Col 3:3 "For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God." God is not interested in only deadening the sin nature and keeping your old man alive, your self, alive.. crucifixion kills the old man, and with it the sin nature is killed too.. Because all sin comes from self. When we are angry that someone cuts us off in traffic.. that is anger coming from self-righteousness..when we impatient ..that is our self wanting our own way in our own time.. when we react with offense to someone's remark, comment, or anything.. that reaction is from self-vindication.

    Before the fall, Adam and Eve had no "self", they only saw God and each other.. they were led by their spirit.. that is why they were not ashamed that they were naked.. but when they sinned.. their spirit died and their soul (mind , emotions, will) became the leading part of their being.. and with this came the "self"... they gained self-awareness.. self-consciouscnesss..saw they were naked.. saw they were sinners.. and they hid from God. If our self is truly dead.. we will only see God and others, not live for self.. we will not see our nakedness and will not be ashamed that we must 'hide' from God.
  4. Our Old man is our old spirit and it DEAD !Gone forever more! The new man is our new Spirit !
    but in our flesh mind we still have those old thoughts! Also our flesh has a sin nature ! It only dies because of sin ! Our new spirit cannot sin and never dies!

    Rom_7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    Eph_4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
    Col_3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

    Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
    Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

    Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    2Co_4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

    Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:

    1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    Eph_2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    Gal_5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    Rom_7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    Rom_7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    We must be able to separte our thinking about our weak flesh and our new creature [Our spirit ]
  5. Hi Barny - I want you to know ahead of time that much of what you've replied with is at variance with some of my beliefs (which is common among believers), so let it be known that my reason for sharing our differences will never be contentious or to convince, but to attempt the "word of truth," which I'm also assuming is the same for you.

    Not physically yet, but we are spiritually; which means possessing eternal life now is as real as it will be at the first resurrection, because the believer will not be any more saved in eternity than he is now. Without this present-knowing of assurance, it is as the unsaved, unknowingly wondering about the next life; even though the believer may not understand or accept he can know, in this life, he has eternal security, he will yet inherit it--being a believer (Christian).

    "Shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24): "We know that we have passed from death unto life . . . ." (1 John 3:14): "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).

    We're close on this one. I see it that the "old man" (sinful-Adamic-nature) continues to influence us but not in a "retake-control" attempt, because for the believer, "Sin shall not have dominion over you . . . ." (Rom 6:14). I see the sinful nature being used by God to strengthen our faith--through the ongoing testing.

    I'm not certain concerning your meaning here, but I believe Scripture is clear that our sin nature is incorrigible: "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom 8:7); "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing . . . ." (Rom 7:18).

    I have a couple more replies to your post but have to begin another post because I cannot get the quote council to activate beyond this point.
  6. I believe this also.

    The term "sinful nature" is taken from the NIV Bible.
    The KJV calls this the "flesh"

    But scripture says Christians are not in the "flesh" ("sinful nature"), Rom 8:9, Rom 7:5
    We're not in the flesh because we believe in Jesus.

    But, I agree that in this wilderness experience we go through in this life our faith is tested and strengthened. And those who endure to the end, believing in Jesus, shall enter in to His rest.

    Unfortunately the term "sinful nature" is often used incorrectly as if it applies to Christians in explaining any wrongful behavior/lifestyle.

    Instead we see in scripture that Christians are not in the "flesh" ("sinful nature"). What this term "flesh" or "sinful nature" refers to is rebellion against God where the Spirit does not rule and instead the flesh does. And the flesh seeks to establish it's own righteousness by works as it will not submit to the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3. The flesh only seeks rebellion against God.
  7. This is probably one of the most applicable questions concerning the self-life I've encountered so far (on ten sites).

    Being aware of the ongoing presence of our Adamic nature isn't as significant as the issue concerning its activities, which are continually restrained by the Spirit's application of the Cross to it. We already know that the "old man" cannot "rule" in our mortal body" (Rom 6:12, 14), which leaves the Spirit to rule the believer: "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish" (Gal 5:17). Also, the believer has the assurance that, "It is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13).

    This does not design the intention that the sinful nature is not in us, but rather that the believer's life is no longer "in" the control of it, which is a primary ongoing theme in the Romans epistle. The crux of the matter concerning our Adamic nature is that nowhere does Scripture proclaim it is dead or has died, just still under crucifixion ("is crucified"; Rom 6:6) and thus, restrained. It's the saint, not the sinful nature, who has died (Col 3:3) which renders us dead to sin's control; and we "are risen" with Him (Col 2:12) in our spirit; and for certain, eventually in our bodies (Rom 8:23).
  8. This reminds me of this passage (2 Tim. 2:11-13)

    11 Here is a trustworthy saying:
    If we died with him,
    we will also live with him;
    12 if we endure,we will also reign with him.
    If we disown him,
    he will also disown us;
    13 if we are faithless,
    he remains faithful,
    for he cannot disown himself.

    If we die to 'self' and choose Him as the Master, we will have the potential to live (and rest) with Him through growing in Spiritual maturity.
    Buf if we also endure, we will also reign with Him. That is the matter of rewards.

    Would like to see what you (plural) think about this.
  9. Hi James - I like that you get right at the heart of the issue and I hope you don't mind a brief reply, because much of your reply is addressed elsewhere in this thread.

    To me, if the sinful nature were eradicated, instead of restrained, the believer would be sinless, which is a significant conflict with the whole of the New Testament concerning our sin nature.

    I don't not know if the eradication concept is what you're referring to but I like advocating the fact that if the Christian was void of the sin nature, the Spirit wouldn't be at constant odds with it: "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal 5:17). Plus I believe 1 John 1:8 is in reference to everyone at any given time; "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
  10. Ah man, you finished before you got to the best part

    2 Tim 2:14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.
    2 Tim 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
    2 Tim 2:16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,
    2 Tim 2:17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
    2 Tim 2:18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
    2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."
    2 Tim 2:20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
    2 Tim 2:21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
    2 Tim 2:22 Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
    2 Tim 2:23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.
  11. It is very simple ! He made it all easy ! all we need do is walk and live thur our Spirit! Then we hear Him perfectly and can serve Him perfectly !
    I found it only takes three days water only reading the bible and praying to get though that 2nd day ! because satan will try to stop us from fasting !

    Isa_58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
    This means Anything that holding us back from hearing and serving Him perfectly will be done away with ! satan saw what happened at the church beginning ! he fears seeing us like they were and he knows we will if we fast !

    Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.

    Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am.

    Our New creature [Our spirit] Only wants to Please him 100% ! We might well see the signs and wonders when we walk more in our Spirit 1 which is the Child of GOD !

    Mar_2:19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
    Mar_2:20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
    Fasting water only , causes our spirit to gain control over the flesh and hear the LORD WELL !

    Luk_5:35 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
    fasting is very powerful to the child of GOD ! Everything is for all of US ! He is No respecter of persons !It Never personal all by Faith ! Listen He reveals lots to me had many many miracles ! Yet they do NOt make me more than Any ! He wants to be able to Use Each of Us in many wonderful ways if we just Hear him well and Obey his Living words! We DO not follow any But only Him ! It a One on One Relationship Forever more!

    A true LOVe story between our Father god and Us , thur JESUS CHRIST our LORD ! Who is the Only head of his flawless church !

    Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son
  12. #12 james1523, Mar 1, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
    Hi thankyou for your reply :). No..I don't believe in the eradication concept. I agree with your post in the spiritual message you are conveying however I disagreed with your interpretation of crucifixion. I do believe the purpose of crucifixion is death and not a torturous "hanging on the cross".. the sin nature does not stay on the cross.. the cross kills it. Actually I should be clear, this is not referring to our sin nature or our cross, but to Christ's cross and His sin nature. Christ's cross killed Him, He did not stay hanging on the cross...Christ's cross killed his fallen Adamic sin nature.. but we still have it with us as long as we are still in this body of flesh.

    Actually I believe Paul is talking about being "dead to the law" here.. see Gal 2:19 For I through law have died to law that I might live to God"
    then in verse 20 he says "I am crucified with Christ.. no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me"..

    When Christ died on the cross.. we died with Him. The old "I" died and was resurrected and became the new "I" (not a replacement .. i.e. our old man left and new man came in.. but a grafting.. the Spirit of God joins to our spirit.. we still retain our self, our identity..but now it is no longer us alone but us and God together ). On one hand we are dead and buried, on the other hand we are resurrected. Water baptism symbolises this of course.
    Christ lived in Paul, and Paul lived in Christ.. both Christ and Paul had the same life... 1 Cor 6:17 "But the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him".
    "the life I now live in the flesh I live in faith" - he means his spiritual life, not his physical life.
    "the faith of the Son of God" - we live the spiritual life by faith, but not our own faith, the faith the Spirit of Christ gives us.

    So I believe crucifixion is referring to death, because it refers to Christ's death.. and I agree with the rest about the Christian still having the flesh and sin nature existing.. we retain this nature until we we must choose to walk in the Spirit by setting our mind on the Spirit not the flesh.. and we now have the ability to do this.

    In the Garden of Eden there was God, man and satan. In our being there is also God, man and satan. The law of sin and death is in the body...this is satan... The law of (human) good is in the mind...this is man... The law of the Spirit of life is in the spirit, where the Holy Spirit dwells..this is God. Romans 7:23-25 Paul says sin dwells in his body, in his members..but He serves God's law with his mind.
    This is the condition of the Christian - satan in the body/flesh fights against the good mind of man.. God the Spirit fights against satan in the body/flesh. The law of the mind (Rom 7:23) wants to do good but it cannot because the law of sin/satan/flesh in our members is stronger than our mind. Anyone who wants to do good by the mind without depending on the Spirit will fail. So we must turn our mind to the spirit and the Spirit of God will enable us and empower us to do good and overcome satan. As we set our mind on the spirit not the flesh we are renewed and transformed and eventually we have the 'mind of Christ'. This is spiritual growth and when we reach spiritual maturity we will be sinning less and less not because our sin nature does not exist or satan does not try but because our mind is aligned more with God than with satan. Our mind is like a house with many compartments, many rooms.. and over time God moves into each room of the house and drives satan out. This is why a Christian may be strong in some areas of life but not in others.
  13. I agree with this, but I have found putting into practice isn't always quite as easy as saying it.

    Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
    Rom 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
  14. I used to think it's difficult also.
    Until a mature Christian pointed it out to me that I've been plugged in to the wrong power source.
    I still rely on my own strength and understanding.

    Now I rely on the supernatural enlightenment and guidance from my one and only true teacher, God's own Holy Spirit in me.
    Which also generated the thirst for the Scriptures that was never before there in my mind. Insatiable thirst for more Scriptures as one by one, the verses and concepts are opened to my dim mind. Allowing me to finally understand what it means to ride on His power and might through the difficulties in my life.
  15. Yep As long as we are trying in our own power and understanding ? He cannot help us ! We must give up and mean it and say LORD take over !

    You know once i had been trying to fix a car! I tried i think for three or Four days !i gave up1 i came in the house i said LORD i cannot put that in ! He said ? Go back out and try now1 i said Lord i been trying all these days . I cannot do it ! He said try again ! I went out it went right into place so EASY ! I felt like a real dummy!
    The ppoint was i had to stop trying so He could lead me ! i learned in life to stop trying to do everything in my understanding and power ! Until We Let him take control ! We will not be able to over come all !
  16. Hi Spirit1st - While I'm in complete agreement with the above, I haves a reservation to share with you concerning the below.

    Your understanding that it's not to be us but Christ--"Not I, but Christ" (Gal 2:20) is the most significant Scriptural doctrine concerning our "walk in the Spirit." In the theme of "Christ taking over," this especially includes dealing with the "old man"; which nature Christ has dealt with in His atonement.

    Concerning our Adamic nature, His atonement, as you know, effected the eradication of the curse of its guilt relating to the believer, but not the eradication of its presence and its entire affect to him (Gal 5:17); which is that our sin nature is restrained on the Cross, allowing only temptation (which we "put off"--Col 3:9), but no longer allowing dominating control (Rom 6:12, 14). The key concerning our guilt is in understanding and remembering that it was Christ's atonement alone that has effected our accountability to it and nothing a believer does can alter this condition in any way (Rom 11:29 NKJV).

    This single teaching is the most difficult and least known, mostly due to the unwillingness to "rest" in the atonement, apart from our seemingly, input.
  17. JESUS tells us to walk in the Spirit ,that is our new creature , our spirit !Then we will NOT full fill the Lust of the Flesh ! Our Old man , old Spirit is Gone ! our new spirit only wants to please our LORD! it Hates Sin !

    Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
    Eph_4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

    Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

    Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Gal_5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    Gal_5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    We live thur our own Spirit 1 Our Spirit is our true eternal being ! Only our Spirit goes to Heaven [New Jerusalem]

    Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son

    Rom_8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    Gal_6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit

    Phm_1:25 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

    1Co_14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

    1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    1Co_15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    We are all once born of God perfect seed ! a quicken spirit like our example and Lord JESUS CHRIST !

    1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    This is part of what takes place at Salvation !

    Eze_11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

    Eze_36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    This is the seed we are born -again of and makes Us part of His family and household ! His kings and priests and holy Children !

    1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Our new Spirit CANNOT SIN !

    1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    our flesh can still sin 1 We must thur our spirit keep it under control !

    1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

    Only our new Spirit is Born of GOd our father !
    Heb_12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    Joh_3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    Joh_3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Our Spirit is Now counted as a Son of God Born into his family and household ! Seated in heavenly places !
    He has made Each of us Very high in His kingdom with POWER ! power to raise the dead ,heal the sick ,cast out devils even satan himself ! The demons shake when we are near! they fear us 1 We have god own power within us !

    1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

    listen i am NO more than the very least in His true unseen church and body 1 yet He has used me to raise the dead ,heal the sick .cast out satan himself and much more! It never personal always by faith ! He does not count any of us more than others ! He uses any of us willing to allow Him! We must know the scriptures and stand in faith !
    We can never get high minded because ? He could use a rock or a donkey but He wants to use You and me !

    Joh_3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
    1Co_15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
    1Co_15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    Eph_2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    Eph_3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

    Royal Law is the KINGDOM which we be;long too LAW ! LOVE
    1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    Eph_3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

    Eph_2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    Rev_1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
    Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    We are Now grafted into the new priesthood as jews in the tribe of judah
    Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Heb_7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
    Rev_5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

    Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

    Mat_10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
    Act_26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

    Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
    Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

    We must only believe and be led by His Spirit ! the holy ghost waits 24/7 for Us to but ask 1 nothing He will not teach us or reveal about heaven or earth ! He helped me Much in daily life and heavenly trues and spiritual understanding ! He the Best Gift God could give His children ! He the power that was used to create Everything ever made ! And He dwells in YOU ! But it must be for the LORD glory and honor Not US!
  18. #18 NetChaplain, Mar 2, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
    Hi James - Myself, I see the eradication concept conflicting with a multitude of scriptural doctrine (no contention towards you), esp. with Galatians 5:17: "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."

    To me, this is a description of the Adamic nature ("old man") and the Holy Spirit co-existing (not cohabitation) within the believer and I think it would require quite a fanciful aspiration (not accusing you) for anyone to explain it otherwise.

    There remains also the lack of an explanation for the phrase "so that you do not do the things that you wish;" which implies the ongoing tendency for the believer to do wrong, evincing the presence of the sin nature. I also believe Scripture would be more clear in identifying it's death in like manner as it has concerning our death in Christ, i.e., "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God" (Col 3:3).

    Blessings to your Family!
  19. All our problem are in our Flesh mind ! It the Battle field ! It the Part that NEEDS renewed ! We still have the old sin full thoughts from our old spirit within our flesh mind ! that why we must fill our flesh mind with GOD living words and accept them as perfect truth ! Our minds record Everything we See or hear ! That why we must be careful of the shows we watch on T.V. or music we listen too ! or even the people we hang with !

    We are All in a Real battle ! It every day of our lives !
  20. #20 B-A-C, Mar 2, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
    Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

    The Holy Spirit can't be defiled or corrupted, but the verse below says our Spirit can be defiled, even after we are believers.

    2 Cor 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    ...and still, most sins require involvement of our flesh. I could lust without doing any physical action.
    But could I steal without my hands? Could I lie without my lips or hands moving? Can I commit adultery without my flesh body? Fornication?

    Matt 26:41 "Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
    Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
    Rom 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

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