Michael BoryAlis
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You left out Revelation 21:5 BEHOLD, I make ALL THINGS NEW.
many or few?
- Thread starter B-A-C
- Start date
Dave M
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yeap after he does away with the wicked to everlasting torment,
I pray that no one lives a life a sin because they think they will get away with I pray all give up there sin now and come to Father through Jesus and avoid everlasting torment. People love there sin more then Jesus will make any excuse to not give up there sin, creating feel good doctrine, that leave out the wrath of God for those who deny him
Beetow
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not include the folks incinerated in the lake of brimstone.
• Rev 21:8 . . But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,
and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part
in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The second death is the final chapter for the folks that end up there. They're not
coming back.
_
"all things" are limited to the things listed within the twenty-first chapter; and do
not include the folks incinerated in the lake of brimstone.
• Rev 21:8 . . But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,
and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part
in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The second death is the final chapter for the folks that end up there. They're not
coming back.
_
Beetow
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• Ecc 1:2-4 . . Meaningless! Futile! complains the Teacher. Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless. What does a man gain from all his labor at which he
toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains
forever.
The earth is dumber than a spatula; yet easily outlives its human potentate whose
IQ is infinitely greater. Take for example the great granite monuments in Yosemite
Valley. Tourists to the valley come, and tourists to the valley go; and one day the
grim reaper catches up with those tourists and they're gone; yet Yosemite's great
stones abide decade after decade; century after century.
Most children born this day will be dead in 100 years; and Yosemite won't even
notice. Though a child born today may be intelligent enough to eventually
understand quantum mechanics and play classical guitar like Andrés Segovia; yet
Yosemite's sentinels-- stupid, mute, and uneducated --will easily outlast it.
• Ecc 2:15-16 . . I thought in my heart: The fate of the fool will overtake me also.
What then do I gain by being intelligent? I said in my heart: This is meaningless.
For the intelligent man, like the fool, will not be long remembered-- in days to come
both will be forgotten. Like the fool, the intelligent man too must die.
UPDATE: 27 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 1,677,348 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
Everything is meaningless. What does a man gain from all his labor at which he
toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains
forever.
The earth is dumber than a spatula; yet easily outlives its human potentate whose
IQ is infinitely greater. Take for example the great granite monuments in Yosemite
Valley. Tourists to the valley come, and tourists to the valley go; and one day the
grim reaper catches up with those tourists and they're gone; yet Yosemite's great
stones abide decade after decade; century after century.
Most children born this day will be dead in 100 years; and Yosemite won't even
notice. Though a child born today may be intelligent enough to eventually
understand quantum mechanics and play classical guitar like Andrés Segovia; yet
Yosemite's sentinels-- stupid, mute, and uneducated --will easily outlast it.
• Ecc 2:15-16 . . I thought in my heart: The fate of the fool will overtake me also.
What then do I gain by being intelligent? I said in my heart: This is meaningless.
For the intelligent man, like the fool, will not be long remembered-- in days to come
both will be forgotten. Like the fool, the intelligent man too must die.
UPDATE: 27 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 1,677,348 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
Beetow
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Judas goats are trained for use in slaughterhouses and herd control. In
stockyards, they lead sheep to slaughter; and are also used to lead other animals
to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the biblical traitor
Judas Iscariot.
The phrase has also been used to describe goats utilized to locate feral goats
targeted for eradication. They're usually outfitted with a transmitter, painted in red
and then released. The goats then locate the remaining herds of feral goats,
allowing hunters with tracking devices to find and exterminate them. The red paint
marks the goat with the transmitter so the hunters know which one not to shoot.
You know what can be even worse than going to hell? Your own children following
you there: and they trusted you.
Here's a sort of cute story I heard once. I don't know if it's true but I guess it's
probable.
A farmer went out to the barn in the dead of night after a snowfall to sneak a pull
from his liquor bottle. Just as he got to the barn door he heard something behind
him. Turning, the farmer recognized his little boy coming towards him. In
amazement he asked the little guy how he ever managed to find his way out to the
barn in the dark. His son replied: It was easy; I walked in your footprints.
One can only imagine the anguish that parents in the netherworld must feel
knowing that they inadvertently raised their children in an ideology that led them
down the road to hell and all the while sincerely believing themselves doing the
right thing. In other words: they actually Judas-goated their children to follow mom
and dad down there. For some families, the only thing they have to look forward to
in the afterlife is a sad reunion in fire and despair.
UPDATE: 30 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 1,863,720 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
stockyards, they lead sheep to slaughter; and are also used to lead other animals
to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the biblical traitor
Judas Iscariot.
The phrase has also been used to describe goats utilized to locate feral goats
targeted for eradication. They're usually outfitted with a transmitter, painted in red
and then released. The goats then locate the remaining herds of feral goats,
allowing hunters with tracking devices to find and exterminate them. The red paint
marks the goat with the transmitter so the hunters know which one not to shoot.
You know what can be even worse than going to hell? Your own children following
you there: and they trusted you.
Here's a sort of cute story I heard once. I don't know if it's true but I guess it's
probable.
A farmer went out to the barn in the dead of night after a snowfall to sneak a pull
from his liquor bottle. Just as he got to the barn door he heard something behind
him. Turning, the farmer recognized his little boy coming towards him. In
amazement he asked the little guy how he ever managed to find his way out to the
barn in the dark. His son replied: It was easy; I walked in your footprints.
One can only imagine the anguish that parents in the netherworld must feel
knowing that they inadvertently raised their children in an ideology that led them
down the road to hell and all the while sincerely believing themselves doing the
right thing. In other words: they actually Judas-goated their children to follow mom
and dad down there. For some families, the only thing they have to look forward to
in the afterlife is a sad reunion in fire and despair.
UPDATE: 30 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 1,863,720 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
Well -- figures are not actual people. Those who are really concerned with people entering Hades -- we Are told to go to every nation -- starting with 'here' at home -- sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen.
First -- are 'we' born again believers and Then what about those around us -- we have home missions and foreign missions.
God won't 'lose' anyone or 'gain' any by mistake.
First -- are 'we' born again believers and Then what about those around us -- we have home missions and foreign missions.
God won't 'lose' anyone or 'gain' any by mistake.
Gregoryp
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The born again tag needs a post all of its own. The amount of so called saved Christians who declare they are born again astounds me. All they have done is say some pithy prayer and go home business as usual. They are not saved because they are not doing the groundwork.
Well -- there Are a lot of people who have a Lot of head knowledge of Bible / salvation, etc. but it needs to be in their Heart to make the difference.
And, unfortunately there Are those who have someone "repeat a prayer" and tell them that they are now 'saved'. There's no real counseling done. The 'ground work' is believing in their hearts -- 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 // Romans 10:9-10.
Ephesians 2:8-9. Good works is Not part of salvation.
If those numbers Really bother you -- then I'd start befriending people -- share the Gospel unto salvation with them -- how Do they respond.
And, unfortunately there Are those who have someone "repeat a prayer" and tell them that they are now 'saved'. There's no real counseling done. The 'ground work' is believing in their hearts -- 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 // Romans 10:9-10.
Ephesians 2:8-9. Good works is Not part of salvation.
If those numbers Really bother you -- then I'd start befriending people -- share the Gospel unto salvation with them -- how Do they respond.
Matthew 6:33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you."
If a person isn't a born again believer, they won't have any desire To put God 1st in their lives. His kingdom won't matter to that person.
JOY = Jesus , others and then yourself.
Do you look up the passages you include?
If a person isn't a born again believer, they won't have any desire To put God 1st in their lives. His kingdom won't matter to that person.
JOY = Jesus , others and then yourself.
Do you look up the passages you include?
Beetow
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• Eph 1:4-5 . .He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we
should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as
sons through Jesus Christ to Himself,
Predestination isn't random; it's typically always the consequence of foreknowledge.
In other words: God has always known, from the very beginning, by means of
precognition, who will, and who won't, come to faith in His son. And seeing as how
He had that information at hand early on, then it was safe and practical to go ahead
and establish their adoption in advance seeing as how it's a sure thing.
When I was old enough to do some of my own thinking; I asked my mother this
question: If God already knows everything that I will ever think, say, or do my
whole life; then how do I have free will?
Mom was stumped; she didn't know.
Well, the thing is, as I found out later; by means of precognition God already knows
everything that I will ever think, say, or do my whole life but that doesn't mean
that my entire life is all programmed like a script or a screenplay for me to act out.
I'd not be surprised if God has groaned within Himself numerous times as He
watched me make one mistake after another, and commit sin after sin in thought,
word, and deed. But at least God has the comfort of knowing all that blundering is
temporary. Once my regeneration is complete, I'll be someone that the Father can
be proud of,
• Rom 8:29 . . For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be
conformed to the image of His son.
UPDATE: 32 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 1,987,968 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as
sons through Jesus Christ to Himself,
Predestination isn't random; it's typically always the consequence of foreknowledge.
In other words: God has always known, from the very beginning, by means of
precognition, who will, and who won't, come to faith in His son. And seeing as how
He had that information at hand early on, then it was safe and practical to go ahead
and establish their adoption in advance seeing as how it's a sure thing.
When I was old enough to do some of my own thinking; I asked my mother this
question: If God already knows everything that I will ever think, say, or do my
whole life; then how do I have free will?
Mom was stumped; she didn't know.
Well, the thing is, as I found out later; by means of precognition God already knows
everything that I will ever think, say, or do my whole life but that doesn't mean
that my entire life is all programmed like a script or a screenplay for me to act out.
I'd not be surprised if God has groaned within Himself numerous times as He
watched me make one mistake after another, and commit sin after sin in thought,
word, and deed. But at least God has the comfort of knowing all that blundering is
temporary. Once my regeneration is complete, I'll be someone that the Father can
be proud of,
• Rom 8:29 . . For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be
conformed to the image of His son.
UPDATE: 32 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 1,987,968 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
amadeus2
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You did not address me but your context makes me assume you were speaking to me. Have carnal men, that is men who have not encountered God changed since they first disobeyed God by eating of the forbidden fruit in the Garden? Was anyone in the OT a "born again believer"?
B-A-C
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- 11,590
Good point, of course the answer is we are under a different covenant/dispensation now.
But even so... just because someone is a born again believer is no guarantee that their will, will always be in sync with God's will.
Matt 26:39; And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.
Luke 22:42; saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
Jesus surrendered to and obeyed the Father, but it wasn't always His will to do so.
Every time we choose to sin, we are going against the Father's will. Yet we are still able to sin. Why? Because we follow our will, not God's will.
amadeus2
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I don't believe we are really disagreeing here...
My point really was that people, carnal people can approach God. This has not I believed changed from OT to NT. Some of the details may have changed for people born physically in different times periods, but God certainly has not changed at all.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Some things written in the NT I believe are simply God's Word, which was spoken when? Is God's Word bound by a time frame or is it only men who so bind themselves by their ignorance or unbelief?
B-A-C
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Gregoryp
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I wasnt implying good works per se, but changing there perception of reality, healing themselves internally, stop looking to there possessions to makes themselves feel good etc. Good charitable works, removing demons from people etc wont get you to heaven.
Beetow
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• Luke 16:25 . . Abraham said: Son, remember
I should think that one of the negative aspects of hell is memory. How people down
there retain their memories sans the brain cells they left behind with their corpse, I
don't know; but they do, just as the rich man in that story is able to experience
thirst sans a flesh and blood tongue.
The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those
memories haunt us with terrible regret. However, people in hell not only have to
cope with their bad memories, but also the good ones too, and I should think it's
remembering the good things they enjoyed in life that makes their situation only
worse in the heat.
If everybody was born and raised in hell; and never once ventured out; that would
be the only life they've ever known, so they wouldn't have a clue what it's like to
really live. For them the old maxim "ignorance is bliss" would certainly hold
true.
UPDATE: 35 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 2,174,340 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
I should think that one of the negative aspects of hell is memory. How people down
there retain their memories sans the brain cells they left behind with their corpse, I
don't know; but they do, just as the rich man in that story is able to experience
thirst sans a flesh and blood tongue.
The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those
memories haunt us with terrible regret. However, people in hell not only have to
cope with their bad memories, but also the good ones too, and I should think it's
remembering the good things they enjoyed in life that makes their situation only
worse in the heat.
If everybody was born and raised in hell; and never once ventured out; that would
be the only life they've ever known, so they wouldn't have a clue what it's like to
really live. For them the old maxim "ignorance is bliss" would certainly hold
true.
UPDATE: 35 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 2,174,340 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
I've felt the same way -- those who Do end up in hell -- Might remember all the times the Gospel was presented to them and they Chose to make fun Of or ignore. The regrets Forever.
There are a lot of people who grow up in less than desirable situations. But they don't get 'lost in the shuffle' -- and no one lives in a vaccume -- most everyone has a source of knowledge. And the Holy Spirit Does work in each of our hearts.
And there Are missionaries both local and foreign. There are probably thousands who live in poverty in a very congenial way -- no violence / robbery or anything else And there are Others in poverty who are rebellious about Everything.
Maybe we could reflect on Positives -- how many have been Reached by the Gospel and will be with God / their loved ones in Heaven.
There are a lot of people who grow up in less than desirable situations. But they don't get 'lost in the shuffle' -- and no one lives in a vaccume -- most everyone has a source of knowledge. And the Holy Spirit Does work in each of our hearts.
And there Are missionaries both local and foreign. There are probably thousands who live in poverty in a very congenial way -- no violence / robbery or anything else And there are Others in poverty who are rebellious about Everything.
Maybe we could reflect on Positives -- how many have been Reached by the Gospel and will be with God / their loved ones in Heaven.
Beetow
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• Gen 6:5 . . God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that
every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The thoughts of the heart are somewhat different than the thoughts that go
through the mind; and are often blocked out, viz: "repressed"; defined as a mental
process by which distressing thoughts, memories, or impulses that may give rise to
anxiety are excluded from consciousness and left to operate in the unconscious, i.e.
the subconscious which, in Freud's opinion, is a repository for socially unacceptable
ideas, wishes or desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions.
• Matt 15:19 . . Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
So then, it's not how your mind works that defines you, no, it's how your heart
works that really defines you; and a man's heart is easily capable of hoodwinking
his own consciousness.
• Jer 17:9 . .The human heart is most deceitful and desperately wicked. Who really
knows how bad it is?
God is able to peer into the heart's contents. That means He will be confronting
people with things about themselves that they suppressed and kept under wraps all
their lives; and that's why I sometimes say only a fool would take their chances
with God. They have no clue the extent of the psychological tsunami they're
walking into.
UPDATE: 38 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 2,360,712 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The thoughts of the heart are somewhat different than the thoughts that go
through the mind; and are often blocked out, viz: "repressed"; defined as a mental
process by which distressing thoughts, memories, or impulses that may give rise to
anxiety are excluded from consciousness and left to operate in the unconscious, i.e.
the subconscious which, in Freud's opinion, is a repository for socially unacceptable
ideas, wishes or desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions.
• Matt 15:19 . . Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts
So then, it's not how your mind works that defines you, no, it's how your heart
works that really defines you; and a man's heart is easily capable of hoodwinking
his own consciousness.
• Jer 17:9 . .The human heart is most deceitful and desperately wicked. Who really
knows how bad it is?
God is able to peer into the heart's contents. That means He will be confronting
people with things about themselves that they suppressed and kept under wraps all
their lives; and that's why I sometimes say only a fool would take their chances
with God. They have no clue the extent of the psychological tsunami they're
walking into.
UPDATE: 38 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 2,360,712 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
