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Man: An Eternal spirit

golfjack

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
62
What does John 3:3 mean? Nicodemus, being natural, could only think naturally. So he said, ... How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus was not talking about a physical birth. He said, that which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. He was talking about a spiritual birth.

The part of man that is born again is his spirit. Man's spirit receives eternal life, the life of God, and the nature of God. It is man's spirit that is made a new creature in Christ.

Paul calls man's spirit the inward man. Peter calls man's spirit the hidden man of the heart. 1 Peter 3:4.


Does anyone here understand the three-fold nature of man? Why is Jesus called the second Adam? Finally, did Jesus suffer spiritual death on the cross so we may have Eternal life?


Peace, Golfjack:lightbulb
 
Greetings Golfjack,

would you mind expanding on your questions please?

Does anyone here understand the three-fold nature of man? Why is Jesus called the second Adam? Finally, did Jesus suffer spiritual death on the cross so we may have Eternal life?

In light of what you wrote before that, I am a little confused with the questions.



Bless you ....><>


Br. Bear
 
reply

Br. Bear. I believe it is very important for Christians to understand the New Birth. To understand this we need to look at what the Bible teaches about spirit, soul, and body. We see in 1 Thess. 5:23 that we are spirit, soul, and body, which is the three-fold nature of man. The New Birth is the rebirth of the human spirit. The real man is spirit. The spirit operates through the soul ( man's intellect, emotions, and will). And the soul in tourn operates through the physical body. Now, the man ( who is spirit ) and his soul live in a physical body. At physical death, the man and his soul leave the physical body and go to their eternal home. We see this in what Christ taught about the rich ,man and Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-24).

Spiritual death means separation from God. The moment Adam sinned, he was separated from God. You see, man is now uniited with the devil. He is an outcast, and outlaw, driven from the garden with no legal approach to God. He no longer responds to the call of God. He responds only to his new nature, or to his new master. Man is motre than a transgressor. He is motre than a law-breaker and a sinner. Man is spiritually a child of the devil annd he partakes of his father's nature.

This explains why man cannot bbe saved by conduct. He has to be born again. If man were not a child of the devil, then he could just begin to put on the right kind of conduct, and he'd be all right. But even if he puts on right conduct, he'sd still a child of the devil, and will go to hell when he dies, which is the second death.

Man cannot stand in the presense of God as he is, because he has the nature of his father, the devil in him. If man is ever saved, he has to be saved by someone paying the penalty for his sins, and by someone giving him a new nature.

Man who is a spirit living in a body can be re-born. His nnature can be changed. He can become a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Man is lost today, not because of what he does, but because of what he is. Man needs life from God, because he is spiritually dead. Thanks be to God, Christ has redeemed us from spiritual death.

The new Man, Jesus Christ, had no death in Him. He was not born as we are born, and He didn't have the spiritual nature of death, the devil, in Him. Yet ( very important), the Bible says in Heb. 2:9 that HHe tasted death for every man. Tasted what? Spiritual death in our place.

Jesus Christ took upon Himself our sin nature. Hebrews 9:26 says He, ... put away sin ( not sins( by the sacrifice of Himself. He took upon Himself our sin nature, the nature of spiritual death, that we might have Eternal Life.

I hope I have explained my teaching here. If you have a problem with this teaching, please show by scriptutre where I am wrong.

Peace, Golfjack
 
Thank you brother for sharing so far.

I am a little puzzled still in that the questions you asked are not addressed in your reply, but rather you have shared what you call "my teaching".

You also ask to be shown by Scripture where you are wrong.

A little odd if you are a teacher to ask to be shown where you are wong.

Perhaps if you could expand the 'lesson' by adding more Scripture to back up your teaching, then the lesson might be better understood?

I have seen and heard quite a few different 'teachings' regarding the body soul and spirit, and may I say not all are remotely Christian..... and most that claim to be, use one or two snippets of Scripture to justify a lot of philosophy.... and miss the Lord in His majesty and glory, often even taking from Him the glory due to His name , by turning the Gospel into common heresy.. to please and tickle itching ears.

This may sound harsh, but is not directed at you.... so please do not misunderstand me.

What you have presented here is very brief and not (yet) fully supported by Scripture. Rather than get into a debate about it all, perhaps you might like to expand some more?


Bless you ....><>


Br. Bear
 
reply

Br. Bear, I think I can sense where you are coming from. I believe you are coming from a Calvanistic approach to the Word. I am coming from a Word of faith point of view. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to carry on this conversation any further. But, I do respect you as a believer.


Peace, Golfjack
 
Ah, my brother,

I don't even know what a Calvanistic approach is! And as far as a Word of faith point of view goes, well, there are an assortment of them, too.

Brother.... the Lord delivered me.... and it is Him I follow, not man, whatever label some might put on things.

Please, I am genuinely interested in what you are wanting to share here.


you said...

Does anyone here understand the three-fold nature of man? Why is Jesus called the second Adam? Finally, did Jesus suffer spiritual death on the cross so we may have Eternal life? and I was asking only to understand better.. and so be able to respond to your questions.... if that is why you asked.


Bless you brother... if you have something to share, please do....


Bless you ....><>


Br. Bear



2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
One you are born, you have a spirit.

1Co 15:40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. Heavenly bodies don't all have the same splendor, neither do earthly bodies.
1Co 15:41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon has another kind of splendor, and the stars have still another kind of splendor. Even one star differs in splendor from another star.
1Co 15:42 That is how it will be when the dead come back to life. When the body is planted, it decays. When it comes back to life, it cannot decay.
1Co 15:43 When the body is planted, it doesn't have any splendor and is weak. When it comes back to life, it has splendor and is strong.
1Co 15:44 It is planted as a physical body. It comes back to life as a spiritual body. As there is a physical body, so there is also a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 This is what Scripture says: "The first man, Adam, became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46 The spiritual does not come first, but the physical and then the spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man was made from the dust of the earth. He came from the earth. The second man came from heaven.

I think what verse 44 says above is, if anyone ever had a physical body (which is everyone of us). Then you also have a spiritual body. In verse 42 it says the physical body can die. But the spiritual body lives forever.

The Bible can sometimes be confusing when it talks about life and death. But it makes sense if you put it all in context. For example many verses.. (John 3:16 is a good example)

Joh 3:16 God loved the world this way: He gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life.

Does that mean you will never die a physical death? Of course not.
Well, if the spiritual body lives forever, how can the spiritual body die?

Well the Bible sometimes mentions something called the 2nd death.
Rev 2:11, Rev 20:6, Rev 20:14, and Rev 21:8

I don't think this means the spiritual body dies, it just means that it "lives" in torment in the Lake of Fire (if you want to call that "living").

Those who accept Jesus, will not die the 2nd death.
 
Jesus Christ took upon Himself our sin nature. Hebrews 9:26 says He, ... put away sin ( not sins( by the sacrifice of Himself. He took upon Himself our sin nature, the nature of spiritual death, that we might have Eternal Life.

I am failing to see any reference to "sin nature" in the scripture text you listed here. While it does address sin very clearly it doesn't mention anything concerning our (sin)nature. A study on sin sacrifice in the previous covenants may be of a help to understanding the scriptures you quoted more clearly.
 
reply

Paul calls man's spirit the inward man. Peter calls man's spirit the hidden man of the heart. ( 1 Peter 3:4).

In many places when the Bible speaks of the heart, it is speaking of the spirit. This is the real man. It will help you in believing and in your faith to think like that. In the New Testament, whereever the word heart is used, substitute the word spirit and you will get a clearer picture of what the Bible is talking about. It is the spirit of man that is born again.

As far as the sin nature goes, I don't see any other way to interpret it. You see, Jesus took upon Himself the nature of spiritual death, that we might have Eternal Life. Jesus said in John 5:24 I say to you, He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus came to redeem us from spiritual death. Adam was banished from the Tree of Life through rejecting God's Word. According to Rev. 2:7, all who now accept and obey the Word of God are brought back to the Tree of Life.


Peace, Golfjack
 
Paul calls man's spirit the inward man. Peter calls man's spirit the hidden man of the heart. ( 1 Peter 3:4).

In many places when the Bible speaks of the heart, it is speaking of the spirit. This is the real man. It will help you in believing and in your faith to think like that. In the New Testament, whereever the word heart is used, substitute the word spirit and you will get a clearer picture of what the Bible is talking about. It is the spirit of man that is born again.

As far as the sin nature goes, I don't see any other way to interpret it. You see, Jesus took upon Himself the nature of spiritual death, that we might have Eternal Life. Jesus said in John 5:24 I say to you, He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus came to redeem us from spiritual death. Adam was banished from the Tree of Life through rejecting God's Word. According to Rev. 2:7, all who now accept and obey the Word of God are brought back to the Tree of Life.


Peace, Golfjack

What do you think of these scriptures?
Romans 8:1-4
1*So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2*For the power* of the life-giving Spirit has freed you* through Christ Jesus from the power of sin that leads to death. 3*The law of Moses could not save us, because of our sinful nature. But God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours, except that ours are sinful. God destroyed sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4*He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us* who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

Ephesians 5:1-4
1*Follow God’s example in everything you do, because you are his dear children. 2*Live a life filled with love for others, following the example of Christ, who loved you and gave himself as a sacrifice to take away your sins. And God was pleased, because that sacrifice was like sweet perfume to him.
3*Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. 4*Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God.

Hebrews 2:17&18
17*Therefore, it was necessary for Jesus to be in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. He then could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people. 18 Since he himself has gone through suffering and temptation, he is able to help us when we are being tempted.

Hebrews 9:11-15
11*So Christ has now become the High Priest over all the good things that have come. He has entered that great, perfect sanctuary in heaven, not made by human hands and not part of this created world. 12*Once for all time he took blood into that Most Holy Place, but not the blood of goats and calves. He took his own blood, and with it he secured our salvation forever.
13*Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow could cleanse people’s bodies from ritual defilement. 14*Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our hearts from deeds that lead to death so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. 15*That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

Hebrews 10:5-18
5*That is why Christ, when he came into the world, said,
“You did not want animal sacrifices and grain offerings.
But you have given me a body so that I may obey you.
6* No, you were not pleased with animals burned on the altar
or with other offerings for sin.
7* Then I said, ‘Look, I have come to do your will, O God—
just as it is written about me in the Scriptures.’”*
8*Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or grain offerings or animals burned on the altar or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” (though they are required by the law of Moses). 9*Then he added, “Look, I have come to do your will.” He cancels the first covenant in order to establish the second. 10*And what God wants is for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
11*Under the old covenant, the priest stands before the altar day after day, offering sacrifices that can never take away sins. 12*But our High Priest offered himself to God as one sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down at the place of highest honor at God’s right hand. 13*There he waits until his enemies are humbled as a footstool under his feet. 14*For by that one offering he perfected forever all those whom he is making holy.
15*And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. First he says,
16* “This is the new covenant I will make
with my people on that day, says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their hearts
so they will understand them,
and I will write them on their minds
so they will obey them.”
17*Then he adds,
“I will never again remember
their sins and lawless deeds.”*
18*Now when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices.

1John 2:1&2
1*My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if you do sin, there is someone to plead for you before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who pleases God completely.* 2*He is the sacrifice for our sins. He takes away not only our sins but the sins of all the world.


1John 4:9&10
9*God showed how much he loved us by sending his only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. 10*This is real love. It is not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.

Your posts seem to resemble the WOF doctrines and teachings.
 
reply

Yes, Jiggyfly, I was taught at Rhema Bible Inst. My mentor was the Late Rev. Kenneth Hagin, who I believe was one of the greatest teachers in the last hundred years. He was a simple man of faith, and didn't talk in iintellectual mumble jumble like some do. I am word of faith all the way. My hope for Christians is to deeply delve into all the scriptures, and not take out the ones they don't like.


Peace, Golfjack
 
Yes, Jiggyfly, I was taught at Rhema Bible Inst. My mentor was the Late Rev. Kenneth Hagin, who I believe was one of the greatest teachers in the last hundred years. He was a simple man of faith, and didn't talk in iintellectual mumble jumble like some do. I am word of faith all the way. My hope for Christians is to deeply delve into all the scriptures, and not take out the ones they don't like.


Peace, Golfjack

Thank you for your honesty, please refrain from propigating WOF teaching here at TJ. We try to encourage one another to deny self and take up their cross.
 
reply

Jiggy, I can only share what I have been taught about Bible interpretation. If you don't want me here on this forum, I will take my cross somewhere else. I didn't think this forum was biased. :sadface:


Peace, Golfjack
 
Jiggy, I can only share what I have been taught about Bible interpretation. If you don't want me here on this forum, I will take my cross somewhere else. I didn't think this forum was biased. :sadface:


Peace, Golfjack

I am familiar with WOF teachings and many of it's prponents. Feel free to share your beliefs with the forum and as long as they promote an increase of Christ and a decrease of self we will all be encouraged. You are very welcome here at TJ, please forgive me if I made you feel unwelcomed.

We are very biased here, as a brother of mine once said, "it's only about Jesus and everything else is considered dung" (my paraphrase).
 
reply

I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless... ( 1 Thess. 5:23).

In this scriptural passage, Paul begins with the inside, the innermost part of man, the heart of his being, which is his spirit, and comes to the inside.

Yett most people misquote this verse. They say, body, soul, and spirit. Whyy do they put the body first? Because they are more body-conscious than spirit-conscious. Natural things mean more to them than spiritual things. So they put physical things first.

sometimes we are more mental-conscious because we live more in the mental realm.

But man is a spirit being. We need to be spirit-conscious. Spiritual things will become more real to us the more spirit-conscious we become.

If we are going to be led by the Spirit of God, we must become more spirit-conscious, or we'll miss out on the whole thing. God's Spirit leads us through our spirits.

Put spirit first. Become more spirit-conscious, more conscious of the inward man. Realize that you are a spirit being and that you became a new creation created by God in Christ Jesus. It will help yoiu grow, spiritually.

We can to ourselves: I am a spirit being. I have a soul. And I live in a body.

Saying that helped me become more spirit-conscious. It helped my faith, because faith is of the spirit, or the heart.



Jiggy. Is it wrong for me or others to say who I am in Christ? I am the head and not the trail. I have been made holy, sanctified, kinglly, priestly, victorous by the Blood. I can do all things through Christ who strenghens me. I don't have to live in poverty because Jesus redeemed me from the curse of the Law, poverty, sickness, and spiritual death. Is this kind of confession that you have a problem with? Or will you say I am a poor ole sinner saved by grace? Does my confession honor what Jesus did for me on the cross? Or does saying I am a poor ole sinner saved by grace honor Him more? To me, the answer is obvious. :shade:


Peace, Golfjack
 
Jiggy. Is it wrong for me or others to say who I am in Christ? I am the head and not the trail. I have been made holy, sanctified, kinglly, priestly, victorous by the Blood. I can do all things through Christ who strenghens me. I don't have to live in poverty because Jesus redeemed me from the curse of the Law, poverty, sickness, and spiritual death. Is this kind of confession that you have a problem with? Or will you say I am a poor ole sinner saved by grace? Does my confession honor what Jesus did for me on the cross? Or does saying I am a poor ole sinner saved by grace honor Him more? To me, the answer is obvious. :shade:


Peace, Golfjack

Not wrong at all Golfjack, but I was not aware that poverty, sickness and spiritual death were curses from the law. Have you got some scriptures?
 
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Jiggy, You can find the curses of the law in Deut. 28, 29. Galations 3 says we have been redeemed from the curse of the Law.


Peace, Golfjack
 
Got some questions Golfjack, you stated, well lets just paste it here.
Jiggy. Is it wrong for me or others to say who I am in Christ? I am the head and not the trail. I have been made holy, sanctified, kinglly, priestly, victorous by the Blood. I can do all things through Christ who strenghens me. I don't have to live in poverty because Jesus redeemed me from the curse of the Law, poverty, sickness, and spiritual death. Is this kind of confession that you have a problem with? Or will you say I am a poor ole sinner saved by grace? Does my confession honor what Jesus did for me on the cross? Or does saying I am a poor ole sinner saved by grace honor Him more? To me, the answer is obvious.

If poverty, sickness and spiritual death are curses of (disobeying) the law, what about those who lived before the law was given?

If God has set aside the first covenant (heard it's been fulfilled) wouldn't those same curses have been set aside also?

If Christ has delivered believers from the curses of poverty and sickness why does HolySpirit give the gift of healing and why are we to share with those who are in need?
 
"If poverty, sickness and spiritual death are curses of (disobeying) the law, what about those who lived before the law was given?"

Good question....

Rom 12: 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Basically if you've heard the laws of God, you are subject to them ...
"all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law"

But even if you haven't heard God's laws specifically, your family, your culture, your "religion", your government, all have rules and laws to follow. Even if you aren't Christian, you still know right from wrong. After all there a LOT of non-Christians who know what the laws of men are. I take verse 14 above to say... If they don't have God's law, they at least have their own laws. "these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves".

God's Word Translation
14 For example, whenever non-Jews who don't have laws from God do by nature the things that Moses' Teachings contain, they are a law to themselves even though they don't have any laws from God. 15 They show that some requirements found in Moses' Teachings are written in their hearts. Their consciences speak to them. Their thoughts accuse them on one occasion and defend them on another.

We all know certain things, like lying, murdering, and stealing are wrong, even if we've never heard "God's Laws" every tribe, every nationality, every religion on Earth, has some laws... almost universally they include an understanding of "don't lie, don't kill, don't steal, etc..."

So with that is mind.. verse 15 says...
they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them

In other words... Ok, God knows you don't know HIS laws, but you do know SOME laws that somebody made in your life. So you are accountable to THOSE laws, you will be judged by how well you followed THOSE laws.

One more thing to add to your comment above...
"If poverty, sickness and spiritual death are curses of (disobeying)"

These things can happen even to Christians...

even more so if our hearts aren't right with God.

1Cor 11: 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
 
"If poverty, sickness and spiritual death are curses of (disobeying) the law, what about those who lived before the law was given?"

Good question....

Rom 12: 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Basically if you've heard the laws of God, you are subject to them ...
"all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law"

But even if you haven't heard God's laws specifically, your family, your culture, your "religion", your government, all have rules and laws to follow. Even if you aren't Christian, you still know right from wrong. After all there a LOT of non-Christians who know what the laws of men are. I take verse 14 above to say... If they don't have God's law, they at least have their own laws. "these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves".

God's Word Translation
14 For example, whenever non-Jews who don't have laws from God do by nature the things that Moses' Teachings contain, they are a law to themselves even though they don't have any laws from God. 15 They show that some requirements found in Moses' Teachings are written in their hearts. Their consciences speak to them. Their thoughts accuse them on one occasion and defend them on another.

We all know certain things, like lying, murdering, and stealing are wrong, even if we've never heard "God's Laws" every tribe, every nationality, every religion on Earth, has some laws... almost universally they include an understanding of "don't lie, don't kill, don't steal, etc..."

So with that is mind.. verse 15 says...
they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them

In other words... Ok, God knows you don't know HIS laws, but you do know SOME laws that somebody made in your life. So you are accountable to THOSE laws, you will be judged by how well you followed THOSE laws.

One more thing to add to your comment above...
"If poverty, sickness and spiritual death are curses of (disobeying)"

These things can happen even to Christians...

even more so if our hearts aren't right with God.

1Cor 11: 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

So are you saying that we are all under the law?
 
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