Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Looking for Jesus according to Matthew

Writing (47)

Sumerian king list:
Meaning of the Sumerian word En-dara-ana (En-tarah-ana):

The meaning of the Sumerian name En-tarah-ana is "uncertain," as the name likely refers to a legendary king on the Sumerian King List, whose historical existence is unconfirmed. The name is derived from the Sumerian word en, meaning "lord" or "ruler," along with other terms that are not definitively translated for this individual.

Breaking Down the Name:

  • En- (): This is a Sumerian word meaning "lord," "ruler," or "high priest".
Significance:

  • En-tarah-ana is mentioned in the Sumerian King List as the fourth king of the First Dynasty of Kish, a legendary dynasty.
In summary, the exact meaning of En-tarah-ana's name is uncertain, but the "En-" prefix indicates a "ruler" or "lord," while the full name refers to a figure whose existence as a historical king is not confirmed.

-tarah- (-琺): The exact meaning of this part of the name is unclear, but it may relate to a personal or divine name.

-ana (-): This component of the name is also of unknown meaning and purpose.

The Sumerian King List itself is a literary work, and the names listed are often considered legendary rather than historical.

His historicity is questionable, as his name doesn't appear in other texts from the period.
 
Writing (48)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis, Babum, except from the Sumerian king list?

No, the name babum, referring to the king of Kish listed in the Sumerian King List, is an Akkadian word meaning "gate". Although Babum is presented as a Sumerian king, the name is unlikely to have been his actual name as it is an Akkadian word, and he does not appear in texts from the period in which he was supposed to have lived.

  • Origin of the name: The name babum is Akkadian, the language spoken by the Akkadians who lived in northern Mesopotamia.
  • Meaning: In Akkadian, bābum means "gate".
  • Historical context: The name appears on the Sumerian King List for a ruler in the First Dynasty of Kish. However, there is no evidence to suggest he was a real historical figure, and the name is likely an Akkadian loanword.
 
Writing (49)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis, Pu'annum , except from the Sumerian king list?


No, we do not know anything about Pu'annum, king of Kish, beyond what is stated in the Sumerian King List (SKL) because he is considered a mythical or semi-mythical figure rather than a historically verified ruler, and the SKL itself is a literary and political document, not a purely historical record. The early part of the list, which includes Pu'annum, features mythological rulers with impossibly long reigns, highlighting the list's purpose to legitimize later dynasties by connecting them to a revered, ancient, and unified past of kingship.

The Nature of the Sumerian King List

  • Literary and Political Device: The SKL combines historical accounts with mythological elements to serve a political purpose, namely to create a narrative of a unified Mesopotamia under a single, legitimate ruler.
Why Pu'annum is Not Historically Verified

  • Lack of External Evidence: There is no other textual or archaeological evidence to support Pu'annum's existence or reign outside of the SKL.
Mythical vs. Historical Figures: The earliest kings, including Pu'annum, are presented as ruling for hundreds or thousands of years, a clear indicator of their mythological or legendary status.

Legitimacy: Later kings used the SKL to claim divine right and ancestry from the earliest, god-like rulers.

Context of the SKL: The list is not a neutral historical account but a work compiled to establish a chronological framework for kingship that culminates in the scribe's own city or patron city.

Distinguishing Myth from History: Scholars consider the early portions of the SKL as fictional and mythical, with only the rulers from later periods sometimes having their existence confirmed by other sources.

The Sumerian name Pu'annum, appearing on the Sumerian King List as the sixth king of Kish, does not have a known meaning because the name and the king himself are likely fictitious, not appearing in any other contemporary texts. The king list's entries from this early period are largely mythical, and Pu'annum is considered an example of such a legendary figure rather than a historical one.

Details:

  • King List Context: Pu'annum is listed as the sixth king of Kish on the Sumerian King List.
Mythological Nature: The early entries on the Sumerian King List, including those for the First Dynasty of Kish, are considered mythical rather than historical.

Lack of Evidence: Pu'annum's name does not appear on any texts from the period he was supposed to have ruled, suggesting he was a fictional ruler created for the list.

No Meaning: Consequently, there is no known literal meaning or translation for the name Pu'annum in Sumerian.
 
Writing (50)

Sumerian king list:

Sumerians were eager to use writing to tell about their civilization so why having king lists with kings who didn’t exist and sometimes with names which don’t mean anything? How is it possible to be taken seriously? It is contradictory!

Are names on Sumerian king lists only Sumerian?

No, names on the Sumerian King List are not exclusively Sumerian; the list includes names from neighboring regions and dynasties, such as Semitic names from Mari and Elamite names from Awan, to provide a broader context of ruling lineages in ancient Mesopotamia, even though the list itself is written in Sumerian.

Details on non-Sumerian names:

  • The Sumerian King List (SKL) incorporates rulers from various dynasties, including those from neighboring cities and regions beyond the core Sumerian south.
Purpose of including non-Sumerian names:

  • The list serves as a historical and chronological framework for Mesopotamia, not just Sumer.
For example, the list features several kings from Mari, a city located on the Euphrates River, and includes some kings from the Elamite region of Awan.

These names often have Semitic-sounding linguistic features.

By including rulers from other nearby areas, the list reflects the complex and interconnected political landscape of the time, showing the influence of these neighboring dynasties on Sumerian cities and vice versa.

It also demonstrates the incorporation of these groups into the concept of "official kingship".
 
Writing (51)

Sumerian king list:

Are names on Egyptian king lists only Egyptian?

No, not all names on Egyptian king lists are purely Egyptian, as later lists compiled by Greek historians like Manetho may contain names transcribed and adapted from Egyptian originals, or even foreign rulers like the Hyksos, who were excluded from some lists for political or religious reasons but were noted by others. The purpose of the king lists varied, with some serving cultic functions by emphasizing religious legitimacy and omitting "illegitimate" rulers, while others, like the Turin Canon, were more historically comprehensive.

Non-Egyptian Influences and Inclusions

  • Greek Transcriptions: Later Greek historians who compiled king lists, such as Manetho, may have included distant descendants of Egyptian names, or even rulers of foreign origin, leading to variations in names, especially when transcribed from Egyptian to Greek.
Factors in Name Inclusion and Exclusion

  • Religious and Political Purposes: King lists were often carved in stone for religious and political reasons, to honor ancestors and legitimize the reigning king.
Hyksos Rulers: The Hyksos Fifteenth Dynasty, who ruled in the Delta, are included in some king lists but were also seen as illegitimate by some Egyptians, and were a clear example of foreign rulers in the context of Egyptian king lists.

Exclusions: Some rulers were deliberately excluded for political reasons, such as the Amarna Period kings (like Akhenaten) or powerful female rulers (like Hatshepsut), for political propaganda or as a form of damnatio memoriae (condemnation by memory).

Varying Sources: There were multiple master lists and different scribal traditions, meaning that names and the kings included varied depending on the source and the time period it was compiled.

The Turin Canon: This papyrus list from the New Kingdom is considered the most complete and historically accurate, often including ephemeral rulers and queens that were excluded from stone lists.
 
Writing (52)

Sumerian king list:

Are genealogies or lists in the Bible only with Hebrew names?

No, Biblical genealogies and lists are not exclusively Hebrew names, as they include gentile individuals and names from different cultures, such as the Canaanite Rahab and Ruth. While many names are of Hebrew or Aramaic origin, the New Testament genealogies for Jesus incorporate non-Hebrew figures and reflect the diverse cultural context of the time, demonstrating God's inclusive plan for all people.

Examples of non-Hebrew names in biblical genealogies:

  • Rahab: A Canaanite prostitute who becomes an ancestor of David and Jesus.
  • Ruth: A Moabite woman included in the genealogy of Jesus.
  • Tamar: A Canaanite woman involved in a scandalous union that results in her connection to the lineage of Jesus.
  • Uriah's wife (Bathsheba): Though of Hebrew origin, her inclusion highlights God's use of flawed individuals to fulfill His plans.
Reasons for their inclusion:

  • Theological significance: The inclusion of non-Hebrew and imperfect individuals underscores God's inclusive grace and plan to bless all nations, not just the Jewish people.
  • Historical context: The genealogies show that the biblical narrative is not a narrow, exclusive story of one people but incorporates individuals from various backgrounds and cultures, reflecting a wider world.
  • Divine purpose: By highlighting figures like Rahab and Ruth, the genealogies show that God uses all types of people, regardless of their past, to bring about His purposes.
 

ASTEROID IMPACT Comparison​


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



The Largest Impact Crater on the Planet; Vredefort Crater in South Africa​


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



The Volcanic Eruption That Wiped Out 95% Of Life On Earth | Catastrophe​


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Surviving Earth's 5 Mass Extinctions: A Prehistoric Journey | SLICE WILD | FULL DOC​

 
Writing (53)

Sumerian king list:

When we start reading the first chapter of the book of Revelation, the apostle John addresses the seven congregations in the province of Asia, not the congregations in Israel: why?

The apostle John addresses the seven churches in the Roman province of Asia (modern-day Turkey) because they were geographically prominent, located on a circular trade route, and represented a diverse cross-section of challenges and conditions found in many churches of that era. This selection provides a tangible, grounded setting for the apocalyptic visions while serving a practical purpose: the message, once delivered to these key communities, was intended to spread throughout the region and serve as a timeless model for all churches facing hardship and persecution.

Here's a breakdown of the reasons:

  • Geographic and Cultural Significance: "Asia" in this context refers to the Roman province of Asia Minor, the western third of modern-day Turkey. These seven cities—Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea—were major centers in the region, and their Christian communities were known to the apostle John.
A Circular Trade Route: The churches were positioned along a natural, circular trade route, which made it logistically efficient for John to deliver the message. Once the letters were delivered to these prominent locations, the message would naturally disseminate to other Christian communities throughout the province.

Symbolic Representation: The specific struggles and conditions of these seven churches serve as a representative microcosm of the challenges faced by churches throughout the Roman Empire and, indeed, all Christian churches across time.

Grounding the Vision in Reality: By naming actual churches in a real region, John grounds his apocalyptic vision in tangible reality. This gives the book credibility and prevents it from being perceived as purely symbolic or detached from earthly experience.

Context of Persecution: The early Christians in these Asian cities faced significant opposition and persecution from the surrounding polytheistic and pagan culture. The messages in Revelation were designed to encourage and strengthen their faith in the face of these hardships and to remind them of their eternal allegiance to Christ.

- We should not forget that!
 
Writing (54)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis, Kalibum , except from the Sumerian king list?


Meaning of the Sumerian word kalibum

Kalibum of Kish was the seventh Sumerian king in the First Dynasty of Kish, according to the Sumerian king list. This name is written "Ga-lí-bu-um ... normalized as Kalibum", and is believed to be derived from the Akkadian for 'hound'. Kalibum is unlikely to have existed as his name does not appear on texts dating from the period in which he was presumed to have lived (Early Dynastic period).
 
Writing (55)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis, Kalumum , except from the Sumerian king list?


Meaning of the Sumerian word kalumum

Kalumum (Sumerian:) of Kish was the eighth Sumerian king in the First Dynasty of Kish, according to the Sumerian king list. Like the other members of the First dynasty prior to Etana, he was named for an animal; his name "Kalumun" is Akkadian for "lamb". Kalulum is unlikely to have existed as his name does not appear on texts dating from the period in which he was presumed to have lived (Early Dynastic period).
 
Writing (56)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis, Zuqaqip , except from the Sumerian king list?


Meaning of the Sumerian word zuqaqip

The Sumerian word zuqaqip ( doughlip) means "Scorpion". This name is associated with a semi-legendary Sumerian king of Kish, listed in the Sumerian King List, though his historicity is uncertain as his name doesn't appear in contemporary texts.

Key details about zuqaqip:

  • Name Meaning: The name "zuqaqip" is believed to be a word from the ancient Kishite language meaning "Scorpion".
Historical Context: He is listed as the ninth king of the First Dynasty of Kish in the Sumerian King List.

Historicity: There is no evidence of his existence in texts from the period in which he was presumed to have lived, making him a semi-legendary figure.
 
Writing (57)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis, Atab, except from the Sumerian king list?

No, beyond the Sumerian King List, we know virtually nothing about the king of Kish, Atab, as he is a figure of myth and legend, with no corroborating archaeological or textual evidence outside the list itself. The early kings on the list, such as Atab, are considered mythical or unverifiable by historians, as they blend myth, legend, and historical information rather than presenting pure historical fact.

Here's why Atab is known only from the Sumerian King List:

  • Mythical and Legendary Figures: The very first kings on the Sumerian King List, before Enmebaragesi, are generally understood by historians to be mythological or legendary figures, not historical rulers.
Therefore, Atab, as a king of Kish, remains a character from a mythical narrative and is not recognized as a historical figure.

Lack of Archaeological Evidence: There are no archaeological finds, inscriptions, or artifacts from the time of Atab that mention him or confirm his existence as a king.

Nature of the Sumerian King List: The Sumerian King List itself is a document that combines mythical and historical information, and it was created long after the events it purports to describe. It was used to establish historical and mythical lineage rather than providing a factual record of kings.

Later Kings are Attested: The first king on the list whose existence is supported by external archaeological evidence is Enmebaragesi. His reign is attested to by inscriptions and other literary references.


Meaning of the Sumerian word atab

The word "atab" does not appear in Sumerian dictionaries, but the closely related cuneiform sign tab (also written ṭab) has meanings including to burn, to mark, to flatten, and to partner. While "atab" itself might not be a Sumerian word, the element "tab" is a common sign in cuneiform and is often associated with these actions or states.

Possible meanings of the related root "tab":

  • To burn: It can refer to the act of burning or setting fire.
To mark or dye: It can also mean to brand, mark, or dye something a red color.

To flatten: In some contexts, it describes the action of making something flat.

To double or repeat: The root "tab" can also indicate doubling or repeating something.

To partner or be parallel: In other contexts, it suggests forming a partnership or being in parallel.
 
Writing (58)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis, Mašda , except from the Sumerian king list?

No, we do not know anything about Mašda, the king of Kish, other than what is stated in the Sumerian King List. The name Mašda appears only on this list as the son of Atab, and the list itself provides no further details about his reign beyond the length of his rule (840 years). Historical records, archaeological finds, and other texts do not offer any additional information regarding this specific ruler of Kish.

What the Sumerian King List tells us:

  • Mašda is listed as the 12th king of the First Dynasty of Kish.
  • His father was Atab.
  • He ruled for 840 years.
Why no other information exists:

  • The reigns of the early kings on the Sumerian King List, including Mašda, are considered mythical or unverifiable by many historians.

  • While some later kings from Kish, like Enmebaragesi, are confirmed by archaeological evidence and literary references, Mašda is not among them.
Therefore, knowledge of Mašda is limited to the details provided in the Sumerian King List.


Meaning of the Sumerian word Mašda

The Sumerian word mašda most commonly refers to a gazelle, but it can also refer to a destitute commoner or a pole/stake. The context of its usage in Sumerian texts is crucial for determining the correct meaning of the word.

Here are the different meanings of mašda:

  • Gazelle: This is the primary and most widely recognized meaning, with the term for gazelle appearing in the Oracc Sign List as part of the word for gazelle (maš₂-da₃).
Destitute Commoner: The word mašda can also describe a commoner who is in a state of destitution or poverty.

Pole/Stake: In some contexts, mašda can also refer to a pole or a stake, with the meaning derived from a related word describing a right-angled tool.

- Definitely instructive!
 
Writing (59)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis, Arwi'um, except from the Sumerian king list?

No, the figure referred to as the "king of Kings, Arwin" does not appear in historical or archaeological records outside of the Sumerian King List; therefore, we know nothing about this figure except for what the Sumerian King List describes. The Sumerian King List is a document of questionable historical accuracy, containing mythical accounts of lengthy reigns that are clearly not factual, and should be understood as a means to legitimize claims of kingship by connecting them to an ancient, heroic past, rather than a reliable historical record.

What is the Sumerian King List?

  • It is an ancient text listing a succession of cities, their rulers, and the lengths of their reigns.
Why can't we rely on it as a definitive historical source?

  • Many of the reigns listed are clearly fictitious and demonstrably impossible, such as one ruler having a reign of over 43,000 years.
  • The list is an anachronistic document, with competing dynasties often placed in a linear succession that did not occur.
  • It does not list kings who we know existed (such as Meskaldamug), and its purpose seems to be more about myth and legitimacy than historical accuracy.
In conclusion:

  • "Arwin," or any ruler known by this name in this context, is not attested outside of the Sumerian King List.
  • Information regarding a figure called "Arwin" can only be found within the Sumerian King List itself, which is not considered a completely reliable source of historical information.
It is a "historiographic attempt to convert a host of competing city-states into an orderly succession of kingship".

It serves to provide a "mythic and heroic charter for the kings who claimed legitimacy based on their place in the King List".


Meaning of the Sumerian word arwi'um

The Sumerian word arwi'um is not found in common Sumerian word lists or dictionaries, and therefore its meaning cannot be definitively determined from the provided search results. The snippets show examples of other Sumerian words and their meanings, but not the specific term you asked about, suggesting it may be rare or misidentified.

Why the term may be difficult to find:

  • Rarity: The term might be very rare, appear only in specific contexts or dialects, or be a phonetic variation of another word.
What to do if you need more information:

  • Check the source: Re-examine the source where you found the word arwi'um for any context, spelling variations, or additional clues.
Mistranscription: There's a possibility the word was misidentified or misspelled in the source where you encountered it.

Akkadian influence: While arwi'um sounds like a Sumerian term, some words in the ancient Near East have complex linguistic roots, and it could be from a related language like Akkadian, or influenced by it.

Consult specialized resources: If possible, try consulting more specialized academic resources or contacting experts in Sumerian linguistics for assistance.
 
Writing (60)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis,Etana, except from the Sumerian king list?


Meaning of the Sumerian word etana

The name Etana is a Sumerian name associated with a legendary king who "stabilized the lands" and is famous for his mythical ascent to heaven on an eagle's back to seek a "plant of birth". While not directly translatable, the name and the associated myth convey themes of divine order, perseverance, and the quest for heirship, according to Wikipedia.

Etana in Sumerian Texts

The Myth's Significance

  • A Symbol of Divine Intervention: Etana's story illustrates the trust in the gods and their intervention to provide for humanity's needs, particularly the fundamental need for offspring and continuity.
His Titles and Deeds: He was known as the "shepherd, who ascended to heaven and consolidated all the foreign countries". Assyriologists interpret "stabilized all the lands" to mean he was the first king to rule more than one city.

The Myth of Etana: This famous myth details his quest for the plant of birth to secure an heir. The story recounts his journey to heaven with an eagle to find this magical plant.

A Figure of Stability: The myth portrays Etana as a hero who brings order, uniting human and animal realms and embodying human kingship itself.

Cultural Relevance: The tale of Etana was widely known and respected, with cylinder seals depicting his legendary flight dating back to the time of Sargon of Akkad.
 
Writing (61)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis,Balih , except from the Sumerian king list?


Meaning of the Sumerian word balih

The word "Balih" likely refers to Balih, the fourteenth king of the First Dynasty of Kish, according to the Sumerian King List. However, he is not listed in early historical documents and is generally not considered a historically verifiable figure.

  • Balih as a Name: Balih appears as a personal name in the Sumerian King List, a mythological record of kings in ancient Mesopotamia.
Historical Status: While listed in the King List, Balih's existence is not confirmed by other early historical records, making his reign more legendary than factual.

Distinction from Sanskrit: The word "balih" also exists in Sanskrit as a word meaning "respectful offerings", but this is a different linguistic origin and has no relation to the Sumerian king Balih.
 
Writing (62)

Sumerian king list:
Do we know anything about the king of Kis,Enme-nuna , except from the Sumerian king list?


Meaning of the Sumerian word enme-nuna

The Sumerian name En-me-nun-na refers to a historical figure from the First Dynasty of Kish and the meaning of the name itself is uncertain, although it likely includes elements related to kingship and possibly royal lineage or destiny.

Meaning of the components

  • En-me-: While the exact meaning of "en-me" in this context is unclear, "en" often refers to "lord" or "ruler," and "me" refers to decrees or the divine rights of kings.
  • Nuna: This component is also uncertain, but it may refer to a concept such as destiny, divine blessing, or a royal lineage.
Historical context

  • En-me-nun-na was a Sumerian king of Kish, whose name is preserved on the Sumerian King List (SKL).
He is known from the SKL, which describes him as holding the title of king and exercising kingship over all of Sumer, though his historicity is uncertain, as the early kings on the list are not typically considered historical figures.
 
Back
Top