Legalism

[Dave M]

In the end, we must recognize that even our righteous acts come as a result of God within us, not of ourselves. On our own, our “righteousness” is simply self-righteousness, and vain, hypocritical religion produces nothing more than “filthy rags.”

Our salvation is not the result of any of our efforts, abilities, intelligent choices, personal characteristics, or acts of service we may perform. However, as believers, we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works”—to help and serve others. While there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, God’s intention is that our salvation will result in acts of service. We are saved not merely for our own benefit but to serve Christ and build up the church (Ephesians 4:12). This reconciles the seeming conflict between faith and works. Our righteous acts do not produce salvation but are, in fact, evidence of our salvation (James 1:22; 2:14–26).

Why are all of our righteous acts considered filthy rags?

 

[amadeus2]

In the end, we must recognize that even our righteous acts come as a result of God within us, not of ourselves. On our own, our “righteousness” is simply self-righteousness, and vain, hypocritical religion produces nothing more than “filthy rags.”

You are correct. On our own we have nothing "good", but the one that is "good" has put a part of Himself in us. He is in us to make it possible for us to do what Jesus did: Overcome the world. If and when we quench the "good" Spirit in us we are unable to overcome the "lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life..." [I John 2:16] and we will sin and when we do so we are "of the world" rather than "of God" no matter what we have done in the past [Matt 7:22-23].

The works of Jesus made Him an overcomer. His sacrifice made it possible for us to become overcomers by opening the Door and giving us the power to walk through it. He did not remove our will to walk through [toward God] or even to walk back [away from God]. It is now possible for us to do the same "works" that Jesus did or even "greater works", but we must work the works using what He has given us. If do not, we are dead.

Our salvation is not the result of any of our efforts, abilities, intelligent choices, personal characteristics, or acts of service we may perform. However, as believers, we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works”—to help and serve others.

No, the "created in Jesus" is a work in progress. Jesus born to Mary had the Holy Spirit and the Word, but he was not an Overcomer. He had live the life of a man and overcome all of the ways of men successfully. He did.

No other man could that [overcome the world] until Jesus opened the Door and provided the proper attire for us to enter in... If we do not walk through the open Door wearing the proper attire, the flaming sword will destroy us. Jesus paid the price for us to become overcomers, but we must overcome the world using the tools provided so that world does not win the war within each of us.

 

[Dave M]

There is no pride here..Only fact...I can take no pride in the fact that Jesus became the sinner for me, died for me, went to hell for me, so that I could be made the righteousness of God...That is God's mercy for me, and His Grace working in and for me.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin (sinner) for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I did nothing to make myself worthy. He made me worthy.
Colossians 1:12 (CJB)
12 giving thanks to the Father for having made you fit to share in the inheritance of his people in the light.

When I walked in the flesh I was a sinner...Then I was born again, I died, I was raised up a brand new creature...who is NOT a sinner....but the righteousness of God in that anointing that He was anointed with and then passed to me (yeah You too) and in that anointing I am the righteousness of God...

So.....You have not answered my questions...How can you be a sinner and the righteousness of God at the same time? Second ....the fact that a born again man will sin with no effort does not mean he has a sinful nature...The more you walk with God the more you will take on His nature. So you have the nature of God and a sinful nature? Where does the Word say that?
Now I'll add another question.....Are you believing the Word? Or the doctrines of men?

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

Ecclesiastes 7:20
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

 

[Bendito]

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

Ecclesiastes 7:20
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

Ecclesiastes 7:20
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

 

[Bendito]

Sorry....I messed that one up....
Dave what I meant to post was this..
You took your first reference out of context....Read more....It says

1 John 1:5-9 (CJB)

5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and proclaim to you: God is light, and there is no darkness in him — none!

6 If we claim to have fellowship with him while we are walking in the darkness, we are lying and not living out the truth. 7 But if we are walking in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of his Son Yeshua purifies us from all sin.

8 If we claim not to have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we acknowledge our sins, then, since he is trustworthy and just, he will forgive them and purify us from all wrongdoing.


You took the second verse out of context too...It reads thus...
Romans 3:19-21 (CJB)

19 Moreover, we know that whatever the Torah says, it says to those living within the framework of the Torah, in order that every mouth may be stopped and the whole world be shown to deserve God’s adverse judgment. 20 For in his sight no one alive will be considered righteous on the ground of legalistic observance of Torah commands, because what Torah really does is show people how sinful they are.


21 But now, quite apart from Torah, God’s way of making people righteous in his sight has been made clear — although the Torah and the Prophets give their witness to it as well —


Paul was speaking here, to unsaved Jews, not to Christians…You have to keep things in context.


Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.


You do have this verse right….Jesus came to save us when we were sinners

But read it in context…Romans 5:7-9 (CJB)
7 Now it is a rare event when someone gives up his life even for the sake of somebody righteous, although possibly for a truly good person one might have the courage to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in that the Messiah died on our behalf while we were still sinners. 9 Therefore, since we have now come to be considered righteous by means of his bloody sacrificial death, how much more will we be delivered through him from the anger of God’s judgment!

While we were yet sinners….colloquial for ‘while we were still sinners’ Its in past tense. We were sinners! We are not sinners now…We are the righteousness of God in the anointing…If we do sin we confess that sin and God restores us to righteousness again…


Ecclesiastes 7:20
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Good point…….So, when you do sin, what you want to do is 1 John 1:9 (CJB)
9 If we acknowledge our sins, then, since he is trustworthy and just, he will forgive them and purify us from all wrongdoing.

1. One last thing…..What is a sinner? According to what you have written in this thread, a sinner is one who does a wrong thing, a bad thing, or that sort of thing…Am I right? But according to the Word, a sinner is devoted to sin, a sinner is not free from sin...A sinner is preeminently sinful, especially wicked; 1 All wicked men 2 specifically of men stained with certain definite vices or crimes
as in 'tax collectors and heathen..

Not to disappoint you my brother….That does NOT describe you.

You were a sinner, Jesus died for you and took your sin upon Himself to the cross, then He went to Hell to pay for your sin and rose from the dead to set you at His right hand as the righteousness of God in His anointing..

If you want to use the Word please use it as it speaks not as you choose to translate it.

 

[Dave M]

Son you need to seek God and ask for understanding, we are all sinners while in the flesh, if you dont get that you are missing the very foundation of being a christian.

 

[Bendito]

Son you need to seek God and ask for understanding, we are all sinners while in the flesh, if you dont get that you are missing the very foundation of being a christian.

OK Dave. You can believe doctrines taught by demons, or you can believe the Word....No more discussion from me here.
1 Timothy 4 (CJB)
4 The Spirit expressly states that in the acharit-hayamim some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come from the hypocrisy of liars whose own consciences have been burned, as if with a red-hot branding iron.

Who are you listening to?

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 15:14; Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”

 

[Dave M]

Brother I am just saying even though you and I have been saved and NO longer live in sin we still sin, therefore we are sinners, if you can not get that you my freind do not get it !!

Have you sinned in the last week?, then you are a sinner, and if you say no you are are not truthful and still a sinner.

Please correct me if I am wrong is there one among us who is with out sin???


God bless

 

[Bendito]

Brother I am just saying even though you and I have been saved and NO longer live in sin we still sin, therefore we are sinners, if you can not get that you my freind do not get it !!

Have you sinned in the last week?, then you are a sinner, and if you say no you are are not truthful and still a sinner.

Please correct me if I am wrong is there one among us who is with out sin???


God bless

Dave, old Dave! I gave you the Strongs definition of sinner....do you habitually sin? Or do you prefer a life of sin to a life of following Jesus? I thought not...so you are NOT a sinner even though you occasionally slip up. If you cannot get that, my friend, you do not get it.

 

[Br. Bear]

Brothers,

Do not sin in devouring one another BUT talk in love!
(You both know who I am addressing)

If I may, you are both looking at the same Scripture but beware that you both don't overlook the Author.
Perhaps you ought both have a better read of Jesus Christ and ask Him what a sinner is.

agape to you both ....><>

 

[Dave M]

Brothers,

Do not sin in devouring one another BUT talk in love!
(You both know who I am addressing)

If I may, you are both looking at the same Scripture but beware that you both don't overlook the Author.
Perhaps you ought both have a better read of Jesus Christ and ask Him what a sinner is.

agape to you both ....><>

perhaps you can tell us what you think sinner is, I have said many times a sinner is someone who sins. there fore we are all sinners if I am wrong its your duty as a brother in Christ to show where I am wrong. by the way I know the difference between living in sin and not living in sin this is not what I am talking about.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

perhaps you can tell us what you think sinner is, I have said many times a sinner is someone who sins. there fore we are all sinners if I am wrong its your duty as a brother in Christ to show where I am wrong. by the way I know the difference between living in sin and not living in sin this is not what I am talking about.

I am/was encouraging you to be careful with each other in your communication.
I read your interaction and went away and what I wrote above came to mind and so I posted it as a Brother in Christ.
Perhaps if I didn't, that would be sin?

I have seen too many times, brothers fall into disagreements while focusing too hard on Scripture ... because they forgot to look to the Author of Scripture in their zeal and I don't want to see you two do the same! Hence what I wrote.

I will consider answering your question but please take in what I wrote.
I see not only the points you make but also the personal stuff between you and while you may be on a noble path, watch out for each other in love ... don't push each other out of the way. God's delight is watching his children living together in peace and love - unity.
As two brothers run to their father, how would he feel if they are arguing about which one is best or right and having digs at each other? Saddened?
That's why I say, run to Him ... in love... twogether.

Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

The absurdity here is... we have someone who believes Christians can't sin telling someone else they're sinning by believing it.
(Which according to them is impossible because Christians can't sin)

We also have someone who who believes in predestination and grace alone continuance telling the other person we sin but grace covers it all
anyway. (If that's true, what difference does it makes if the other person is sinning).

The hypocrisy of both positions is evident to everyone except them.

Then there is the fluff doctrine moderator who is willing to accept both points of view as long as they quit arguing.
(Who cares who is right and who is wrong, we're only talking abut people's salvation here).

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

The absurdity here is... we have someone who believes Christians can't sin telling someone else they're sinning by believing it.
(Which according to them is impossible because Christians can't sin)

We also have someone who who believes in predestination and grace alone continuance telling the other person we sin but grace covers it all
anyway. (If that's true, what difference does it makes if the other person is sinning).

The hypocrisy of both positions is evident to everyone except them.

Then there is the fluff doctrine moderator who is willing to accept both points of view as long as they quit arguing.
(Who cares who is right and who is wrong, we're only talking abut people's salvation here).

you forgot about yourself Brother,
Please tell us how good you are.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,



you forgot about yourself Brother,
Please tell us how good you are.

Bless you ....><>

p.s. @B-A-C

Thank you . I was talking today about how fluff is good for polishing but you need steel to sharpen steel, so I appreciate your comments towards me .
Have you done much blacksmithing? Steel may sharpen steel but it must be done in love. Blacksmiths handle their work with care because they know the breaking point of even the hardest, even the anvil.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

James 5:20
consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins.


1 Peter 1:22
Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth, so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.

Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions

1Peter 4:8 Above all, love one another deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

1Peter 4:1-11. Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.Use hospitality one to another without grudging. As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Br. Bear]

1Timothy 1:1-17
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,

2To Timothy, my true child in the faith:

Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

3As I urged you on my departure to Macedonia, you should stay on at Ephesus to instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines 4or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God’s work, which is by faith.

5The goal of our instruction is the love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith.6Some have strayed from these ways and turned aside to empty talk. 7They want to be teachers of the Law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert.

8Now we know that the Law is good, if one uses it legitimately. 9We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers,10for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching 11that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

12I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, Who has strengthened me, that He considered me faithful and appointed me to service. 13I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man; yet because I had acted in ignorance and unbelief, I was shown mercy. 14And the grace of our Lord overflowed to me, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

15This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst. 16But for this very reason I was shown mercy, so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His perfect patience, as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.17Now to the King eternal, immortal, and invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

 

[Br. Bear]

James 3:1-17
1Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to control his whole body.

3When we put bits into the mouths of the horses to make them obey us, we can guide the whole animal. 4Consider ships as well. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot is inclined.

5In the same way, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it boasts of great things. Consider how small a spark sets a great forest on fire. 6The tongue also is a fire, a world of wickedness among the parts of the body. It pollutes the whole person, sets the course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

7All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles, and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man,8but no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9With the tongue we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, this should not be! 11Can both fresh water and bitter water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree grow olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

13Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good conduct, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.14But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast in it or deny the truth. 15Such wisdom does not come from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.16For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every evil practice.

17But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, accommodating, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere.18Peacemakers who sow in peace reap the fruit of righteousness.

 

[Br. Bear]

These sort of Scriptures don't get much attention

2Corinthians 6:1-13
1As God’s fellow workers, we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2For He says:

“In the time of favor I heard you,

and in the day of salvation I helped you.”

Behold, now is the time of favor; now is the day of salvation!

3We put no obstacle in anyone’s way, so that no one can discredit our ministry. 4Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships, and calamities; 5in beatings, imprisonments, and riots; in labor, sleepless nights, and hunger; 6in purity, knowledge, patience, and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7in truthful speech and in the power of God; with the weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8through glory and dishonor, slander and praise; viewed as imposters, yet genuine; 9as unknown, yet well-known; dying, and yet we live on; punished, yet not killed;10sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.

11We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians. Our hearts are open wide.12It is not our affection, but yours that is restrained. 13As a fair exchange, I ask you as my children: Open wide your hearts also.