John 1:1 Explanation revision

[Ivar]

John 1:1 Explanation
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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1. Most assume because Word was God that Word is God. However John did not bare record of this

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

2. John also said in the same Chapter

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

3. So we know John bare record that the word is the Son of God.
4. We also know John stated No man hath seen God at any time.
5. At any Time.
6. So Why was The Word God?

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

7. So why did John not bare record that this is God?

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

8. We see in 1Co 8:6 that all things are by The Word ; So The Word made all things
9. However we also see in 1Co 8:6 that Creation was of God. That it is the will of God and God who authorized it to begin with. Not The Son

10. We see further confirmation in Hebrews 1:1-2 & Proverbs 30:4. Also take noticed who is credited
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

11. Also we Know God has no beginning or end however The Word is stated to be The Firstborn & Beginning of Creation.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

12. We have further confirmation that The same Word was in the beginning with God but no mention of prior to the beginning with God /
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

 

[Ivar]

The above post is to supplement this post. John 1:1 Explanation

 

[Ivar]

And to hammer it home further; Never is their any emphasis to believe That the Word is God or more specifically our only true God which is The Lord our God who is one lord

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
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[Dave M]

Matthew 15:8
“‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

 

[Ivar]

Matthew 15:8
“‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

@Dave M
Very true. However pertaining to this information

Wisdom is my sister and Understanding my kinswoman.
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Proverbs 7:4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

 

[Ivar]

Further proof out of The Son mouth he is not God.

Luke 18: 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
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For those of discernment

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
&
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
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God always Good because changes not and Son not Good.
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The Son is only good because

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
&
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

 

[Dave M]

John 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Ivar]

John 1:34 I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God."

Joh 1:34 And IG2504 saw,G3708 andG2532 bare recordG3140 thatG3754 thisG3778 isG2076 theG3588 SonG5207 of God.G2316

bare recordG3140

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
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Definition of TESTIFY


Definition of testify

intransitive verb
1: to make a solemn declaration under oath for the purpose of establishing a fact (as in a court)
2a: to make a statement based on personal knowledge or belief : bear witness
b: to serve as evidence or proof
3: to express a personal conviction
transitive verb
1a: to bear witness to : ATTEST
b: to serve as evidence of : PROVE
2: to declare under oath before a tribunal or officially constituted public body
3archaic
a: to make known (a personal conviction)
b: to give evidence of : SHOW

 

[Ivar]

John 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

@Dave M

Three verses; Three separate Chapters and no context within the Chapters themselves given.
First is getting context within surrounded Chapter and Verses.
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1. Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Context:
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
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2. Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Context:
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
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3. Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Context:
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
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Also the entire Chapter of John Chapter 17 proves that you are not contextualizing those verses and using partiality and possibly doctrines of Men to form a narrative contrary to the word or volume of the book
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@Dave M
Ideally there should be no need for me to rehash what is already contained in another post.
Comprehensive post to I might add. All praises to the Heavenly Father:smile:
1. Hierarchy & Unity; 2.Beginning & End; & Discrediting Trinity; 3. John 1:1 Explanation; 4. One God; 5. Trinity Inception into Christianity.
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1. If you gave someone your authority they are you or representing you
2. You being in the image of God; if your household is under you and joined unto you then you are all one unit or family.
3. The Lord is one Lord; Our Lord is one Lord; Man is one Lord
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Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
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Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

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Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hello @Ivar
I think I posed a question in your explanation thread, that would also apply here, but you answering that one will suffice.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

 

[Ivar]

@Christ4Ever

specifically for you.

The Son is the beginning of the Creation of God.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
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The Son is the beginning and started the beginning because The Ancient of Days who is God The Father is eternal and predates any beginning. I AM THAT I AM

Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


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The beginning of the Creation of God was used to create all things therefore was God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
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Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


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Also

Joh 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

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A son always comes forth from his father.

The life and light of Adam was First.
Adam was last.
And yet the life and light of Adam kingdom is last and forever until the end.
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Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
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God The Father is above all, thru all, and in all. God and Father of the True Vine and it's branches or adopted branches.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
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There is more comprehensive answer but the above should be sufficient for now.

 

[povawiqe]

John 1:1 Explanation
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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1. Most assume because Word was God that Word is God. However John did not bare record of this

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

2. John also said in the same Chapter

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

3. So we know John bare record that the word is the Son of God.
4. We also know John stated No man hath seen God at any time.
5. At any Time.
6. So Why was The Word God?

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

7. So why did John not bare record that this is God?

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

8. We see in 1Co 8:6 that all things are by The Word ; So The Word made all things
9. However we also see in 1Co 8:6 that Creation was of God. That it is the will of God and God who authorized it to begin with. Not The Son

10. We see further confirmation in Hebrews 1:1-2 & Proverbs 30:4. Also take noticed who is credited
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

11. Also we Know God has no beginning or end however The Word is stated to be The Firstborn & Beginning of Creation.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

12. We have further confirmation that The same Word was in the beginning with God but no mention of prior to the beginning with God /
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

The "word" that existed in the beginning is Yeshuah, yet not because he has always existed, but because he was brought into existence in the beginning, before anyone else, which is why he is called the "firstborn of creation", who the Father brought into existence himself directly, which is also why he is called "only son", because all other souls were created through Yeshuah. And the first utterance he made when he came into existence was "let there be light", and that light did not come from the sun, the moon, or the stars, which were created on the 4th day, but that light came from himself, "which was the glory he had before the world began", and he also literally became the "light of the world". And because he spoke the world into existence in the days after the first day is why he is called the "word of God", because he spoke the world into existence. And this is why it is written, "God made the earth by his power, but he created the world by his wisdom", for the earth, the heavens, and Yeshuah were first brought into existence by the Father by his power, but then the world upon the earth were created in wisdom through the utterances of Yeshuah (there is a distinction between earth and world in the scriptures). And what Yeshuah brought into existence as part of the world was not "all things", for the word "things" is not part of the original text, and the earth itself was brought into existence by the Father himself, but "all", meaning all life, "all came through him and not one came into existence without him". And in this way, Yeshuah was in the beginning with God because he was created in the beginning, but he was also God because he was the "representation" of the Father, which is why just as the Father created, Yeshuah also created, in representation of God, which is why the scriptures also declare, "Elohim said", because Elohim is referring to the Father and also the son, for Elohim is plural, meaning that although it was Yeshuah who spoke, yet it was the Father who brought whatever was commanded to be brought into existence into existence, by his power, and in this way, all were made by the Father through Yeshuah.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hello @Ivar
Thank-you for the special consideration!

Considering all that has been brought up here, it has left me to wonder if worshipping Jesus is proper? Being as @povawiqe has stated that He is only the first of Creation and not God?

Keeping in mind that the Jews of the day did believe that He was saying that He and the Father are one, which to me equates to His Divinity.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

 

[oldhermit]

John 1:1 Explanation
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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1. Most assume because Word was God that Word is God. However John did not bare record of this

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

2. John also said in the same Chapter

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

3. So we know John bare record that the word is the Son of God.
4. We also know John stated No man hath seen God at any time.
5. At any Time.
6. So Why was The Word God?

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

7. So why did John not bare record that this is God?

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

8. We see in 1Co 8:6 that all things are by The Word ; So The Word made all things
9. However we also see in 1Co 8:6 that Creation was of God. That it is the will of God and God who authorized it to begin with. Not The Son

10. We see further confirmation in Hebrews 1:1-2 & Proverbs 30:4. Also take noticed who is credited
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

11. Also we Know God has no beginning or end however The Word is stated to be The Firstborn & Beginning of Creation.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

12. We have further confirmation that The same Word was in the beginning with God but no mention of prior to the beginning with God /
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

You seem intent on trying to disprove the very thing John proves in verse one. I do not know how much Greek you know or do not know but just from a linguistic point of view, John's construction of verse one is so carefully crafted in the Greek that it is often called the most concise theological statement ever made. John establishes the fact that Jesus is the God of creation from the very first verse.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

John 1:1 Explanation

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1. Most assume because Word was God that Word is God. However John did not bare record of this

Try applying John's reference of "In the beginning..." as referring to the past about Jesus being God in the past.

Then John went to the present day of the recent past in stating the Word had come in the flesh.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Otherwise, some snarky mocker can start applying that God can cease to exist because Jesus was God and then He was not. John was just referring to Jesus having been our Creator God that came to be incarnated to dwell among us.

 

[Ivar]

So instead of the word was God because of


Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

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You say the word was God because of

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. ???

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This implies quite a few things. Now one may wonder if the Son is the Son of God from the beginning, or is the Son God, but became the Son of God of himself when he was made of flesh and dwelt among us as you imply. You also seemingly contradict yourself from one of the three answers you gave me. But best not to rehash.

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For your information these are the references of John Chapter 1 I have applied

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

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So The word was God but is the Son of God that was with God in the beginning who no man has seen.

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Here is an interesting question that needs no answer. Out of all the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3;

Why did the Amen specifically tell the Church of the Laodiceans that he is the beginning of the creation of God?.


Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


The answer or answers should more than likely be between verses 15 to verses 22 in Revelation Chapter 3.

Scriptures for Thought.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

So instead of the word was God because of


Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

--------------------------------------------

You say the word was God because of

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. ???

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This implies quite a few things. Now one may wonder if the Son is the Son of God from the beginning, or is the Son God, but became the Son of God of himself when he was made of flesh and dwelt among us as you imply. You also seemingly contradict yourself from one of the three answers you gave me. But best not to rehash.

I believe scripture is testifying of the Son as being there at our beginning in creating everything and us. It is no different than saying the Father was there at our beginning, let alone the beginning of creation.

If we look at how the prayer system is set up, Jesus is our only Mediator between God and men, and so His own intercessions, our intercessions, and the Holy Spirit's silent intercessions are given to the Father so that when the Father says "Yes" to any of those petitions, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So I see in Genesis, the Word of God asking the Father "Let us create man in our image.." by which when the Father agreed, God as the One Triune God created man in His image;

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So then when I see God's requirement for man to establish a word or a testimony; He requires of men to have two or three witnesses.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

That testifies to the make up of the One God consisting of more than just One Witness for any matter to be established in creation.

The same applies to how that One God can judge any one. We see that by His word for the requirement for men to judge any one.

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

So when God judged the people at the tower of Babel... this request from the Son of God was made to the Father.

Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

So there is a plirality within that One God in order for God to judge any man or people, there has to be at least 2 Witnesses within the One God for any testimony of God to be true. As this is true for men by His word, then by His word, testifies to the make up of the One God.

John 7:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

So God cannot be a One Person God otherwise how can He speak of Himself in seeking His own glory?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Jesus said that and that is why God the Father & the Holy Spirit testified of the Son of God as being God at His water baptism to fulfill the prophesy of God speaking in Isaiah being sent by the Lord God and His Spirit; thus 3 Witnesses in that One God for God to create by the Word of God and for God to judge by the Word of God.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

John 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

So I have more than enough scripture to see the deity of Jesus Christ as being there at the beginning as our God Creator as nothing was made without Him.

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For your information these are the references of John Chapter 1 I have applied

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

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So The word was God but is the Son of God that was with God in the beginning who no man has seen.

John 1:18 testify to the Son having seen the Father even though no man has seen the Father, but Jesus did. You can see that again below.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So for Jesus to have seen the Father, He is God. Note the underlined portion of the verse above?

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Here is an interesting question that needs no answer. Out of all the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3;

Why did the Amen specifically tell the Church of the Laodiceans that he is the beginning of the creation of God?.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Signifying that He is responsible for the beginning of the creation of God as in being our Creator. Another way of saying it is below:

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Now if the Son is the Creator, does that mean we are to deny the deity of the Father? No.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Now if the Son is the judge, does that mean we are to deny the deity of the Father? Again, no.

So just because you see verses speaking to teh deity of the Father or to the authority of the Father being greater than the Son's, that is by no means to infer for us to deny the deity of the Son.

The answer or answers should more than likely be between verses 15 to verses 22 in Revelation Chapter 3.

Scriptures for Thought.

We should weigh how we apply scripture in denying the deity of the Son because by that same method, we can apply John 1st chapter to deny the Father of His deity for not being our Creator when the Son is, and by John 5:22, we could deny the deity of the Father for not being our Judge when the Son is.

And yet the Triune God at the request of the Son has created us and the Triune God at the request of the Son has judged us and that is how our One God is true because there are 3 Witnesses within the One God.

 

[Ivar]

You seem intent on trying to disprove the very thing John proves in verse one. I do not know how much Greek you know or do not know but just from a linguistic point of view, John's construction of verse one is so carefully crafted in the Greek that it is often called the most concise theological statement ever made. John establishes the fact that Jesus is the God of creation from the very first verse.

@oldhermit

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
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@JesusIs4Me
Instead of responding to your reply I will re emphasize what I mentioned before.

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Joh 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Joh 16:29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
Joh 16:31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@oldhermit

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

@JesusIs4Me
Instead of responding to your reply I will re emphasize what I mentioned before.

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Joh 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Joh 16:29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
Joh 16:31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

I'll give you 2 verses to ascertain how you are denying the deity of the Son and by doing so, deny the deity of the Father.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Luke 18: 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Just to interject here, for your consideration.

First Jesus started with a question. A question to see if the individual had reason or knew who He was. Jesus kinda of liked to work that way. Of course the person did not know him. So............if you realize what He was doing, you can see that He was actually not stating He was not God, but leaving it open to one with understanding who did know Him, a condition reserved for Him and the Father. "None is good, save one, that is God." I realize in order for Jesus to satisfy you as to His Divinity, He would have had to say "None is good, save one, that is God and "I am""! You do realize if He had done during this moment in time.........what do you think would have happened???

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59

Unless you think the Jews would go around and stone the crazies??? Don't quite recall that type of law being on the books. Now Blasphemy!!!! There's one that would bring out the stones!!!! Now we're talking, but what did Jesus say and also imply by His words there that would be considered blasphemous to them?

Got to go and give Cesar what belongs to Cesar!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
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