ok b4 we get started i would just liek 2 create some abreviations
chr = christianity
ism = islam
JC = Jesus Christ
LOBW = lack of better words
and once again sorry for any grammar mistaes ahead of time.. there will probably e a lot.
see LOL
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ok down to business...
chr teaches that JC is the Son of God, man kinds saviour and he died on the cross for OUR sin(s) while ism teaches JC was merely a man with God's message like countless prophets before him.
- JC is considered part of the trinity, THE SON, father, n holy spirt... and so fourth.
see here is where I am confused because there are several passeges that i have noticed i guess you could say contradict (lack of better words) this claim.
here are just a few
"You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you
loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [John 14:28] here we see JC reffering God as a greater "being" than him(LOBW).
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good
but God alone." [Mr 10:18]. Here JC refers to himslef as not good for only God is good.
"He [Jesus] said unto them [the disciples], But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. And he straightly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing." (Luke 9:20 and 21) here he denies the claim... maybe it was to avoid the authroities and the persicution of his disciples...
"For I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your SAVIOR....It is I, the Lord; there is NO SAVIOR BUT ME..." (Old Testament Isaiah 43:3 &11)
here God says there is no saviour but him.
yes i know that was an old testament reference... please bare with me SORRY IF I AM OFFENDING ANYONE THIS IS NOT MY PURPOSE
We see in the Gospel, the word *righteous* means pure and sinless. As the two words *righteous* and 'sinner' are always opposite each other in the New Testament.
Furthermore, Jesus is described as righteous, therefore we know that the word means: without sin, cuz jesus was without sin right....
"I say unto you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine righteous persons, who need no repentance." {Luke 15:7}
Here JC says that there are people without sin that who are righteous, so he did hae to save them...
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." {Matthew 9:13}
Here he divides ppl in2 two grops sinner and righteous. sinner need repentence and righteos do not becaus eh as not come to call them.
"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." {Luke 1:6}
JOHN 21:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for i am not yet ascended to my father: but go to my brethren and say unto them, i ascend unto my father, and YOUR father; and to my God and your God.
Jesus put his father and our father in the same catergory... shoot, Jesus describes abraham as his father as well... and yes i am aware of the lineage LOL
"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." {Mark 2:17}
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." {1 John 3:7 }
GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
so here is the 1st bunch of questions....
1. HOW COULD HAVE JESUS COME TO SAVE ALL OF MANKIND WHEN HE STATES HIMSELF THERE ARE RIGHTEOS PEOPLE?
now onto paul....
chstny teahces us that paul was a jew who persucted christians untill he changesd his way on the road 2 damascus and started preaching the teachings of JC. ism teaches that paul was simply a liar and deciever who used his money to trick people. (seems 2 be happening a lot these days LOL)
i will not disrespect paul in anyway because i try 2 respect all religions and faiths.. and paul plays a large part in christianities development. so sorry again in advance incase anyone is offended this is not my purpose
now here we go (playing super mario music LOL)
i find that the major idea of jesus being the Son of God comes from pual himself and the epistles he writes... as i stated above. I can not find any such passage where Jesus directly refers himself to the Unique son of God.
And I often find Pauls teachings contradicting Jesus teachings. Paul calls the law of moses a curse when jesus specificly states that he has not come 2 abolish the law but fufill it.
So if paul contradicts jesus and paul is the backbone of the idea of jesus being who he is.. what doe sthis mean???
Here are some passges…
[Romans 3:10] "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
AS IT IS WRITTEN… WHERE IS THIS WRITEEN???
"Now concerning the unmarried (widow), I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy." Cor. 7:25
"A married woman is not free as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies (widow), then she is free to be married to any man she wishes, but only if he is a Christian." Cor. 7:39
"She will be happier, however, if she stays as she is. That is my opinion, and I think that I too have God's Spirit." Cor. 7:40
Moses says; ( I am using Moses because JC says he has come 2 fufill the law not abolish it. While paul says it Is a curse
"If two brothers live on the same property and one of them dies, leaving no son, then his widow is not to be married to someone outside the family; it is the duty of the dead man's brother to marry her." De 25:5
GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
RO 3:10, 3:23 No one was or is righteous.
Questions number 2….
IF THESE contradictions of paul are creditable is it still “safe” 2 say the claim of jesus being the Unique son of god is infact genuine???
And if So why? (PLEASE READ ON)
SORRY ONCE AGAIN.. I KNOW THIS STUFF CAN BE PRETTY OFFENSIVE I HAVE BROUGHT MANY BIBLE PASSAGES TO MY PARENTS AND THEY HAVE GOTTEN EXTREMELY ANGRY WITH ME JUST FOR SEEKING ANSWERS.. SO PLEASE READ ON
John 3:16 For God So Love The World That He Gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON that whoesoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
There it is… a an amazing thought and belief that I wish I could just settle on… but anyway here we go…
Now as for john 3:16 this verse is very popular as most of you already know… but I have looked at this verse over and over and others as well and found the following
Jesus is desrcobed here as Gods begotten son but then I realized there are other people who are described as the same.. so I then started 2 ponder on the saying “begooten son”
And this is what I found which will eventually lead u 2 question 3
Psalms 2:7
I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, thou art my son, this day ihave begotten thee
Hebrews 11:17
"By faith Abraham when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had recieved the promises offered up his ONLY begotten son"
Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael was 13 years older than Isaac. Yet we see that "his one and only son" expression was used for Isaac.
Exodus 4:22 "And thou shalt say unto pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord Israel is my son, even my firstborn"
You se it is used in other places as well.. so I tried a little something out.. a game if you will
between the verses of John 3:16, Exodus 4:22, Jeremiah 31:9, and Psalm 2:7. Lets take "his only begotten Son" from John 3:16 and replace it in Exodu Exodus 4:22, and lets take "even my firstborn" from Exodus 4:22 and replace it in John 3:16.
Does this change any meaning??? (not question 3 just umm 2.5, yea…)
So after this I started researchin the actual meaning of son of god and found that in Hebrew it means servant of god. which doesn’t take away form anything I know.. just alittle fact I thought was cool hehe..
So now ot number 3
obviously these passages are real and could mean several different things, but some of them are a direct claims or statements. Which ultimately leads 2 contradictions… such as paul claiming the law of Moses is a curses while jesus says he has come 2 fulfill it while paul is said 2 be spreading jesus teachings. So tyhis means jesus tecahhings are moses teachings plus a little of his own added on the side .. which is fine by the way. So my questions iss….
Drum roll please LOL
Why are these passages present and what do they mean if not what they appear to be? And why is there other passages that seem to contradict them?? I mean isn’t the bible not supposed 2 have errors in it… ??? PLEASE SOME ON… HEEEEEEEELP!!!!
(by the way I did read the whole book so I have not just taken only the passesges as the backbone for my question(s)?
oh I read something that my uncle showed me.. he is a Christian by the way along with his sister (my mom) and I found it very interesting but even more confusing LOL
il just copy n paste it
KJV
Acts 3:25:
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Acts 3:26:
"Unto you first God, having raised up his SON Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
N(NEW)KJV
Acts 3:25:
You are the sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.
Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His SERVANT Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities.
In the KJV, we find that Jesus is God's Son. In the NKJV, we find that He is God's servant. These are clearly not the same! The Greek word found in the text here is "pais". It can be used in Greek for either "son" or "servant." So which one is correct here?
The solution is simple: look at the context in which it is used. In English, we have many words that can have more than one meaning. If a translator, going from English to another language, came across the word "bear," he would have a choice of meanings. But it wouldn't take rocket science to figure out which one to use.
If the passage described a man with a heavy burden, the translator would understand that the man is going to "bear," or "carry" the burden. If, on the other hand, the passage described a hairy beast climbing a tree, the translator would understand the correct meaning here applies to a forest-dwelling animal that will eat nearly anything it finds. It's not really very hard.
Now look at the Bible passage above. What is being discussed?
* children of the prophets"
* "covenant which God made with our fathers"
* "in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed."
It's clear, isn't it? The passage is talking about "children," and "fathers" and "seed." The word "pais" means "son." But the New King James translators chose "servant." Why? They were not alone. The New World Translation, created by the Jehovah's Witnesses who deny the deity of Jesus(Jews/Muslims also deny the deity), translated this word "servant" also. So do the NIV, ASV, NASB and other modern Bible translations.
Could it be that these modern translators disagree that "pais" can be translated "son?" No, the NKJV committee translates this very word as "boy," "child" or "son" in Matthew 2:16; 17:18; 21:15; Luke 2:43; 9:42; and John 4:51. Yet they refused to translate the word as "son" in this powerful sermon where Peter presents Jesus as Messiah and Son of God
WOW THIS IS A LOT 2 TAKE IN AT ONCE…
Ok now that’s about it I guess im sure I will have more question as I mature and all atht stuff
so now addressing the post made b4 mine…
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POSTED BY fightngwrmwood
As far as your reference to that conversation between Peter and Jesus, I don't see any contradiction. I guess I am confused as to why you think there is one.
In matthew jesus says cngradulations (summing this up) when simon peter replies 2 his questions.. who do u think I am
In luke jesus tells him not 2 tell nebody this and charges him with it.
There where my confuson arises…
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POSTED BY: sunshine307
God does not tell us to worship Him by putting the highest part of our body to the ground.
I KNOW GOD DOESN’T TELL US 2 DO THIS… its just a teaching.. like a philosophy if you will that’s all. But if you look jesus, abraham, moses all “fell on their faces” when they talked or prayed to Godor his angels… this is why I do it… it has nothing 2 do with islam at all. If they did it and they are our teacher then I feel that I should do it in m attempts 2 “please” God.
POSTED BY: Nigh
Islam rejects the concept of the Trinity. The Koran misrepresents the teaching of Christianity regarding the Godhead, claiming Christians believe in "three Gods" - Father, Mother, and Son. (Sura 5:116, 5:73-75; cp. (Koran 5:114)
YES ISLAM DOES REJECT THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE TRINITY CUZ MOUSLEMs BELIEVE God is the only being worthy of worship and praise and jesus is not a a being who had powers but his powers wre only allowed by god himself…
and I am very aware of this passge
but I do not see where u got the idea of islam miss interpreting it or the Christian trinity…
The qu’ran I have in front of me says as follows
Surah 5. The Table, The Table Spread
73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
74. Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.
75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
[5.116] And when Allah will say: O Isa (Isa is Jesus) son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
It says two gods yes.. but is jesus not God himself who wlaked this earth I mean that is what my Christian side of my family teaches me isn’t he not 2 be praised n worshiped like a god…
and the whole father, mother, thing.. I dunno where that came from but I am sure your intentions were both honest and positive…
And I sia dthat the bnoks were pretty much the same except for jesus… I meant like his whole status …
if he died on the corss he was the saviour if he was risen up he wasn’t thts was included of my “status” description of jesus when I said both books are very similar except for jesus being who he was.
Ok I think o covered everything I wanted 2 know…
oh wait one more thing
well actually 2 lol
Did you know that wine in Hebrew means onios and and onios means ‘unfermenetd grape juice’ pretty cool huh
so yea the whoel time everybody was drink welches LOL
And one last question… very simple I promise you
How come Christianity allows consumption of Pork?
in De. 14:8
it says that pork is forbidden
and a lot of people say that God wa sonly talking to the jews at the time but theres no pigs in the desert and theres no fish in the desert either cuz he talks about what we are aloud 2 eat in the water as well.
And I know jesus made anew convenat and said that all food is clean or maybe it was peter my memory is slippin its 2 am again but once again jesus says follow the law of moses.
but if ur not allowed 2 eat something its not food, am I right?
I mean you could eat wood, but its not food. So if your not allowed 2 eat it how doe sit make it food? Ou know what I mean
tahts just curiosity anyways… maybe some could answer that too?
well I think tah covers everything
if you have been able 2 read all of this THANK YOU 4 UR TIME..
if I offended you I did not mean to it was not my intention and I am sorry anyway if did, I did not mean 2 disresepct Jesus in anyway what so ever nor paul or anyothe prophet in the bible, or God 4 that matter.
SORRY SORRY SORRY
I know this is a weird place 2 be asking questions like this
but I ned an unbiased opinion
so u see I cant really asked a mouslem about this LOL cuz u already know what the would say LOL
wel I hoep some out there can help me out
thank you everybody 4 reading this and SOOOOOOOO SORRY 4 THE GRAMMAR I KNOW ITS HORRIBLE maybe if im lucky god will bless me with some skills in that too LOL
well look 4ward 2 ur rplies everybody.
THANK AGAIN
AND SORRY
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STUCK, in the middle
