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Jesus in the Bible

Member

mat

Ok, i have been looking around many threads and all. and yes i am new.
ok so here it is.
i come from a family full of mouslems and christians (forget the war on iraq cnn should just come to one of my family reunions lol)
anyway...
i know both the bible and quran very well
and i see that both books are pretty much the same but the RELIGIONS are not. or at least the perceptions of the religions i the western world.
i mean the old testament teaches the same thing as the quran does... and right now most of you are like.. this guy is crazy, but it is true i assure you just read it (if you want acorse, & just cause you read it doesnt mean you believe in it).
NOW, i am not christian or a mouslem (or a jewish for that matter)
but i do believe in several factors about both islam and christianity

the one thing or person i am foggy on is...
JESUS...
who was he

God hiself, God's son, a prohpet,

as you might have noticed i am confused
i have read the bible exstensively n try 2 figure it out, and i know God or Allah does not reveal all his plan for an indivudula at once so maybe i simply have some waiting to do, only God knows right
what i mean is this... i follow the bible well try 2 foloow everything in it
i try 2 foolow the law for jesus even said hismlef do not think i come 2 abolisgh the law but i have come 2 fufill it so i know he wants us (you, me) to follow it... and when ppl ask me what religion i am ( i get that question a lot) i say none, i simply say i (try 2) follow jesus teachings.. now heres where it gets tricky, jesus never once tells anybody to worhsip him or even implies that he is a unique son of god...
maybe im wrong and have missed something, do not take offense to this PLEASE
then people say that well do you not follow mohammed teachings (islam's prophet) and then i say well i do cuz they are the ame as jesus teachings
then they say well why dont u believe that jesus is the UNIQUE son of god or that he god in the flesh...
and then i simply say necause jesus doesnt say he is or doesnt tell anybody to worship him

so there it is
yes i am confused maybe its crystal clear to some of you maybe not...
I am looking for answers and i know your answers are limited by a bias or our simple human selves but please ell me what you think or whatever

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE FOR THIS
AND IF I CAN BE KICKED OFF OF THIS FORUM FOR SUCH A POST
I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILTY AND IN NOW WAY WILL OBJECT TO THE MODERATORS DOING SO

thank you
please 4give and spelling mistakes and grammar and i know theres a lot ;)

see you around
 
Member
Hi Mat,

Thank you for sharing. Indeed, Jesus cannot be reconciled with Islam, and means a very personal and individual relationship with God. I am not very familiar with the Qu'an, but I do know they include prophets, but the prophets are not God.

In the Old Testament of the Jewish faith there are also prophets that are not God. God speaks to them and they speak to the people. Unlike the Qur'an, they prophesied about a man that was coming to save them, the Messiah. Jewish people are still waiting for Him. Christians wait on Him right now.

I hope I am being clear. The Messiah is unique to the Jewish faith.

According to the Old Testament (and you are probably familiar with this story), in Genesis, God made a promise to Abraham.

Gen 17:19
"But God replied, "your wife Sarah will bear you a son who you must name Isaac. And I shall remain my covenant with him, a covenant in perpetuity, to be his God and the God of his descendants after him."

God then asks Abraham to sacrifice this son that God's promise is with, but then when God sees Abraham is willing to do it, God sends and angel to stop him from killing Isaac and the angel says (Gen 22:15-18)
"I swear by my own self, Yahweh declares, that because you have done this, because you have not refused me your own beloved son, I will shower blessings on you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars of heaven and the grains of sand on the seashore. Your descendants will gain possession of the gates of their enemies. All nations on earth will bless themselves by your descendants, because you have obeyed by command."

Jesus' adopted dad's decendents are Judean, one of the 12 tribes that always seems to take the lead. All the tribes are traced through the OT and are considered "chosen people".

God did favor the Jewish people, even when the turned from Him. He still loves them, but I believe, as Christians do, that He sent this Messiah the Jewish people talked about, born of a virgin Jewish woman by the Holy Spirit (Mary) and adopted by a Judean man (Joseph).

He is not just a prophet, He is the living God, Son of the Father, without sin and who paid the price for us all. That is, God spared Isaac back in Genesis, and allowed His own son to be sacrificed to pay the price for the sin of the world because He loved humanity so much he doesn't want them to be separated from Him for eternity. Ultimately, He gave everyone the promise originally given to just Jewish people. Regardless of descent, because Jesus died on the cross and rose again to life afterwards, He gave everyone "possession of the gates."

If you read the New Testament, you can learn all about Jesus, what He said and the fact that He died on the cross, was buried, and came back from the dead to talk to his disciples and those he loved before he ascended into heaven.

Christians believe He is coming back and when He does, everyone will have to give an account of their lives here on earth. Those that know Him will go to heaven for eternity, those that don't, will perish. We believe He is coming back because He said He would. (Check out John Ch 16:16 "In a short time you will see me no longer and then a short time later you will see me again.)

Just to make one point - to be specific, the disciples had a hunch he was this Messiah, but some were confused. Much like what you are asking he asked the disciples what people thought of Him. The rumor was that Jesus was a prophet. And that was what all this stuff is about between Peter and Him (see Matthew 16:13-20) - when Jesus asked 'who do you say I am' and Peter responds "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" that is The Christ as in the Messiah, Savior promised to us in the scriptures.

Keep in mind Jesus was raised a devout Jew and knew full well the implications of Peter's reply. Jesus then responded, "Simon, son of Jonah, you are a blessed man! Because it was no human agency that revealed this to you but my Father in heaven."

So here Jesus not only confirms that Peter is correct, but that it was the Holy Spirit that gave him this correct statement.

That's why he also asked people not to spead to news sometimes, because He knew that Jewish leaders would try to kill Him if they got wind that He was the Messiah, because Jesus didn't fit their idea of a glorious king, even though the prophet Isaiah claimed he would be "despised and rejected by men." John the Baptist just flat come out recognizes it, not wanting to baptise Him (Matthew 3) and whose life reflects a fufillment of the prophesy of "a messenger in front of you to prepare the way before you." These references to "the Christ" are referring to the Jewish savior.


And yes, Jesus did want us to worship Him. That is why he said, "Anyone who does not take up his cross and follow my footsteps is not worthy of me, in a very powerful passage (Matthew 10:38). There are also some interesting parables about giving up all you have for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus also says he is unique in a very clear way because he doesn't want us to be confused on this point. Check out John 14:6
"Jesus said:
I am the Way, I am the Truth, and Life.
No one can come to know the Father except through me.
If you come to know me, you will know my Father too."

If you keep your heart open to listen to God and pray while you read the Bible, keep seeking, you may become convinced that what He said and who He said He is, is true. He is the living God. He is a loving God.

It is so GOOD and I want to encourage you to keep searching your bible on your own. Know that it is such a rich work, studies with groups are great too and you may find them very helpful.

I hope this encourages you and again thank you for your questions. Your post warmed my heart because of this main issue- this Jesus question - that is being hung up about Jesus. He gets the questions rolling and sort of forces your hand a little. What I mean is, what He claimed is so radical, there is no getting around Him really. I don't know if this makes sense, but I find that just - beautiful. Like a straightforward question from a child that sort of - makes you drop you guard. He is disarming. And I just have to praise God for that!

May He bless you with understanding!
fww
 
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Member

mat

That's why he also asked people not to spead to news sometimes, because He knew that Jewish leaders would try to kill Him if they got wind that He was the Messiah, because Jesus didn't fit their idea of a glorious king, even though the prophet Isaiah claimed he would be "despised and rejected by men." John the Baptist just flat come out recognizes it, not wanting to baptise Him (Matthew 3) and whose life reflects a fufillment of the prophesy of "a messenger in front of you to prepare the way before you." These references to "the Christ" are referring to the Jewish savior.


that was posted by you....

now i am aware of everyhing you said in your post (i dont mean that in a rude way)

and u may be surpised but i am fairly knowledgeable with the bible (and this is due 2 the mouslem side believe it or not lol)
and if you turn to the book of Luke the same converation just Lukes accounting of the even... Jesus says this...

LUKE CHAPTER 9 19 - 21...

19They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.

20He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.

21And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing

you see this is the parts of the bible that are confusing to me
one "guy" says that jesus replied in this way and another says that jesus replied in this way... in which both replies are completely opposite of eachother.

you see i consider my self close to God i pra daily and pray befor I eat i sometime even pray liek a moulsem humbling my body by putting the highest part of it (my forhead) to the ground... however i dont say the arabic words i just simply pray as if god were a man bowing his head down beside me...

so i do try my best

i am just so foggy on this area

becuase one religion says that jesus was a prophet and we should only worhsip god and god alone (islam).. and if you worship something besides God its unforgivable and you go 2 that over heated place below

while the other religion (christianity) says that we will go 2 that hot place below if we do not except jesus as our saviour and the son ETC. you see the rest of the religions are the same well i mean the books anyway
they all preach the same things.... i know im getting a little off topic sorry,
the point is...

if you are a mouslem and it turns out that christianity is the "right" religion you will go 2 hell because islam rejects the worship of anything but god however, jesus is a very important prophet.. hey did you know he is the messiah in islam too... i mean the one to detroy the anti chirst... ;)

now if you are a christian and islam is the "right" religion you are once again oin 2 the place below because you worship jesus and he is not Gods son but only a prophet...

but besides that they are identical i mean mouslems believe in the old testiment and the teachings of jesus himself...

its just that jesus never says what christianity says about him for himself. and if it does liek how you just displayed above (thankyou every much by the way) it has something to completely "contradict" (lack of better words right now) the previus teaching....

i have been on this "search now for about a year and have come up with many controversial findings in which both religions would consider me commiting blasphemy

i just want 2 rest and be at peace so when the day of judgement comes my soul can be at peace as well and i dont have 2 worry about making the "wrong" choice in my faith...

please
give me some insight as to what you think about what i have written (paassages, thouights, etc)
i am not lookin 4 arguments or debates
just answers

thank you fightngwrmwood your post was very helpfull and reminded me of many teachings i have come to forget in this "search"

thank again and sorry 4 the grammar its 2 am where i am i just finished the book of exodus front 2 back
yes one more 2 go n the old testament is down.. lol
yea i look 4ward 2 ur reply

thanks again and i am sorry if i offened anybody that was not my intention.
Mat

----------

STUCK, in the middle
 
Member
Just a few points.

God does not tell us to worship Him by putting the highest part of our body to the ground.

Jesus is not a prophet He is the Son of God - John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Christianity is not a religion like other religions - it is about a relationship with Jesus Christ God's Son.

There is only one way to Heaven - John 14:6 "Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes unto the Father except by Me."

John 10:9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

Hope that answers some of your questions. :sun:
 
Member
mat,

I'm so glad the Lord our God has led you to this site. There are some very obediant Christians here who have much to teach you about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You seem to be open to the possibility that there is only ONE way. That is a good thing because there is only one way. At the very least, you are unsure that either Islam, or Christianity is the one true way. Keep asking questions, and the Holy Spirit will bring to light all things in his own time, not ours.

You said...
mat said:
i know both the bible and quran very well
and i see that both books are pretty much the same but the RELIGIONS are not.
. I must stop you there. For the books are not the same, at all. No more than an encyclopedia is the same as a dictionary just because they both contain some of the same words. There are many, many differences. Too many to list in this post for sure, but here is one that you can study for now.

->Islam rejects the concept of the Trinity. The Koran misrepresents the teaching of Christianity regarding the Godhead, claiming Christians believe in "three Gods" - Father, Mother, and Son. (Sura 5:116, 5:73-75; cp. (Koran 5:114)

The Christian Scriptures, both New and Old Testaments, teach that the Godhead consists of three persons in one: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Which some of the scriptures have been referenced in earlier posts. There is a HUGE difference rite there. It's not a minor thing here. This is a HUGE thing, and extremely important.

->In Koran, it is told that Jesus did not die but was raised up before Allah.

The apostle Paul summarized the central Christian beliefs (or "Gospel") with the words, "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" (1Cor 15:3-4). This doctrines is considered essential to the Christian faith (Rom 10:9,10; 1Cor 15:13-17).

Simply, the Person, life, and work, of Jesus Christ is viewed considerably different in the Koran versus the New Testament.

May God bless you,
Nigh
 
Member
Hi Mat,

First thing I want to write is no! it does not surprise me at all that you know those scriptures! :) That's why I put in parentheses that you probably are well familiar with them. And I am not familiar with the Muslim faith and no, I did not know that it spoke of a Savior. It doesn't surprise me. You don't have to be of God to acknowledge him, right?

As others have posted, the texts do not speak of the same thing (I have a Qu'ran but haven't really ever delved into it), but my brothers and sisters more familiar with that faith are probably better able to address those specific issues.

I elaborated because there are so many things that seem to me are really clear that Jesus is the Messiah and the only way, but especially given the full context of the (bible's) scriptures. I also was not raised to believe anything other than that there is a God. I was given no specifics, boundries, no bible or anything. So, I don't know if you can imagine this, but once given a bible, spiritually starving, I couldn't get enough of it. Still can't.

Anyway, it wasn't until much later that I had to start making choices like the Spirit seems to be asking you to make now. I just, - when exposed to other things, He always trumps them. It's kinda like being in a good marriage I guess. I just don't have eyes for anyone else because I am loved so well and can love others well... I just believe He's it. The one and only. Alpha and Omega and all that from the Word, but on a gut level, nothing compares. I just love Him. :) All those things in my post I believe, but when I get down to it, I guess that is the bottom line of my choice for Him. There is no greater love I have found and the love just gets deeper even though it seems there can not be any more than what He's given.

As far as your reference to that conversation between Peter and Jesus, I don't see any contradiction. I guess I am confused as to why you think there is one.

Here I am concerned again that I am telling you things you already know, but just - this is what I am thinking.

Both gospels tell of the same conversation. Both gospels tell us that Jesus told them not to tell anyone because it was such a big deal Him saying He was the Messiah because He was in danger of being killed. The only difference is that one gospel elaborates more of the conversation. Each gospel is written by a different person.

If everyone sees an event, they all watch one event, hear one conversation, those individuals will recount different stories. That doesn't mean the event didn't take place or is less true. It just means that each person is going to give an account unique to who that person is. So you already may know this too - who each disciple was, what their occupation was, how that affected the things they paid attention to. Diversity of the body and blessings that gives the church and all that. And yes, I am not trying to debate either, and I hope you aren't taking these points as me trying to be fighting you instead of fighting Wormwood! I am just letting you know my perspective and just that I don't understand the misunderstanding.

Thanks so much for your post and like Nigh posted, your openness. I encourage you to keep seeking - there are a lot of wise brothers around here that can be a great resource for you.

May God bless you!
:)
fww
 
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Member

mat

wow this is really inetersing ok.. im just posting this real quick because as i ahe said befroe i know the bible failr well , or at least i THINK i do... but only time will tell right...

in a cople minutes (im gonna need time to write it out)
i am going 2 post something i have questions on.. and you guys and girls can answer them that would be GREAT...

and once again these questions are not meant to offend or critisize you or chistianity as a religion or way of life...

so just give me a couple minutes and i will have SEVERAL questions...
i just want opinions and anything you consider helpfull

oh.. and yes there is going to be comparison between islam and christianity and the book of the faiths/religions.. so PLEASE bare with me, i am not trying to start any arguements or debates
i have just been brought up with both religions and there teachings are pretty much te same except for the infamous celberty jesus an im hoping a forum full of christians can really help me out.
thankyou again.

so umm yea
ill be right back

AND REMEMBER THESE ARE QUESTIONS... NOT CHALLENGES TO YOUR FAITH. QUESTIONS FROM A VERY CONFUSED PERSON.

ok im gonan start now for real lol
 
Member
Mat...We humans have no ability to comprehend how God can be one...He is...and at the same time be a trinity. The father, son and holy spirit. That is Gods ability. No man can even imagin how that is possible. So many don't believe what their minds cannot percieve. The old testament mentions all three. Look it up. And by the way...The Quran does not match the bible....Brian
 
Member

mat

ok b4 we get started i would just liek 2 create some abreviations

chr = christianity
ism = islam
JC = Jesus Christ
LOBW = lack of better words

and once again sorry for any grammar mistaes ahead of time.. there will probably e a lot.

see LOL
--------

ok down to business...

chr teaches that JC is the Son of God, man kinds saviour and he died on the cross for OUR sin(s) while ism teaches JC was merely a man with God's message like countless prophets before him.
- JC is considered part of the trinity, THE SON, father, n holy spirt... and so fourth.

see here is where I am confused because there are several passeges that i have noticed i guess you could say contradict (lack of better words) this claim.

here are just a few

"You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you
loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [John 14:28] here we see JC reffering God as a greater "being" than him(LOBW).

"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good
but God alone." [Mr 10:18]. Here JC refers to himslef as not good for only God is good.

"He [Jesus] said unto them [the disciples], But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. And he straightly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing." (Luke 9:20 and 21) here he denies the claim... maybe it was to avoid the authroities and the persicution of his disciples...

"For I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your SAVIOR....It is I, the Lord; there is NO SAVIOR BUT ME..." (Old Testament Isaiah 43:3 &11)
here God says there is no saviour but him.

yes i know that was an old testament reference... please bare with me SORRY IF I AM OFFENDING ANYONE THIS IS NOT MY PURPOSE

We see in the Gospel, the word *righteous* means pure and sinless. As the two words *righteous* and 'sinner' are always opposite each other in the New Testament.

Furthermore, Jesus is described as righteous, therefore we know that the word means: without sin, cuz jesus was without sin right....

"I say unto you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine righteous persons, who need no repentance." {Luke 15:7}
Here JC says that there are people without sin that who are righteous, so he did hae to save them...

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." {Matthew 9:13}

Here he divides ppl in2 two grops sinner and righteous. sinner need repentence and righteos do not becaus eh as not come to call them.

"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." {Luke 1:6}

JOHN 21:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for i am not yet ascended to my father: but go to my brethren and say unto them, i ascend unto my father, and YOUR father; and to my God and your God.

Jesus put his father and our father in the same catergory... shoot, Jesus describes abraham as his father as well... and yes i am aware of the lineage LOL

"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." {Mark 2:17}

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." {1 John 3:7 }

GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).

so here is the 1st bunch of questions....

1. HOW COULD HAVE JESUS COME TO SAVE ALL OF MANKIND WHEN HE STATES HIMSELF THERE ARE RIGHTEOS PEOPLE?

now onto paul....

chstny teahces us that paul was a jew who persucted christians untill he changesd his way on the road 2 damascus and started preaching the teachings of JC. ism teaches that paul was simply a liar and deciever who used his money to trick people. (seems 2 be happening a lot these days LOL)

i will not disrespect paul in anyway because i try 2 respect all religions and faiths.. and paul plays a large part in christianities development. so sorry again in advance incase anyone is offended this is not my purpose

now here we go (playing super mario music LOL)

i find that the major idea of jesus being the Son of God comes from pual himself and the epistles he writes... as i stated above. I can not find any such passage where Jesus directly refers himself to the Unique son of God.

And I often find Pauls teachings contradicting Jesus teachings. Paul calls the law of moses a curse when jesus specificly states that he has not come 2 abolish the law but fufill it.

So if paul contradicts jesus and paul is the backbone of the idea of jesus being who he is.. what doe sthis mean???

Here are some passges…

[Romans 3:10] "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
AS IT IS WRITTEN… WHERE IS THIS WRITEEN???

"Now concerning the unmarried (widow), I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy." Cor. 7:25

"A married woman is not free as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies (widow), then she is free to be married to any man she wishes, but only if he is a Christian." Cor. 7:39

"She will be happier, however, if she stays as she is. That is my opinion, and I think that I too have God's Spirit." Cor. 7:40

Moses says; ( I am using Moses because JC says he has come 2 fufill the law not abolish it. While paul says it Is a curse

"If two brothers live on the same property and one of them dies, leaving no son, then his widow is not to be married to someone outside the family; it is the duty of the dead man's brother to marry her." De 25:5

GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
RO 3:10, 3:23 No one was or is righteous.

Questions number 2….

IF THESE contradictions of paul are creditable is it still “safe” 2 say the claim of jesus being the Unique son of god is infact genuine???
And if So why? (PLEASE READ ON)

SORRY ONCE AGAIN.. I KNOW THIS STUFF CAN BE PRETTY OFFENSIVE I HAVE BROUGHT MANY BIBLE PASSAGES TO MY PARENTS AND THEY HAVE GOTTEN EXTREMELY ANGRY WITH ME JUST FOR SEEKING ANSWERS.. SO PLEASE READ ON

John 3:16 For God So Love The World That He Gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON that whoesoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

There it is… a an amazing thought and belief that I wish I could just settle on… but anyway here we go…

Now as for john 3:16 this verse is very popular as most of you already know… but I have looked at this verse over and over and others as well and found the following
Jesus is desrcobed here as Gods begotten son but then I realized there are other people who are described as the same.. so I then started 2 ponder on the saying “begooten son”

And this is what I found which will eventually lead u 2 question 3

Psalms 2:7
I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, thou art my son, this day ihave begotten thee

Hebrews 11:17
"By faith Abraham when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had recieved the promises offered up his ONLY begotten son"

Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael was 13 years older than Isaac. Yet we see that "his one and only son" expression was used for Isaac.

Exodus 4:22 "And thou shalt say unto pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord Israel is my son, even my firstborn"

You se it is used in other places as well.. so I tried a little something out.. a game if you will

between the verses of John 3:16, Exodus 4:22, Jeremiah 31:9, and Psalm 2:7. Lets take "his only begotten Son" from John 3:16 and replace it in Exodu Exodus 4:22, and lets take "even my firstborn" from Exodus 4:22 and replace it in John 3:16.
Does this change any meaning??? (not question 3 just umm 2.5, yea…)
So after this I started researchin the actual meaning of son of god and found that in Hebrew it means servant of god. which doesn’t take away form anything I know.. just alittle fact I thought was cool hehe..
So now ot number 3

obviously these passages are real and could mean several different things, but some of them are a direct claims or statements. Which ultimately leads 2 contradictions… such as paul claiming the law of Moses is a curses while jesus says he has come 2 fulfill it while paul is said 2 be spreading jesus teachings. So tyhis means jesus tecahhings are moses teachings plus a little of his own added on the side .. which is fine by the way. So my questions iss….

Drum roll please LOL

Why are these passages present and what do they mean if not what they appear to be? And why is there other passages that seem to contradict them?? I mean isn’t the bible not supposed 2 have errors in it… ??? PLEASE SOME ON… HEEEEEEEELP!!!!


(by the way I did read the whole book so I have not just taken only the passesges as the backbone for my question(s)?

oh I read something that my uncle showed me.. he is a Christian by the way along with his sister (my mom) and I found it very interesting but even more confusing LOL

il just copy n paste it

KJV

Acts 3:25:
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Acts 3:26:
"Unto you first God, having raised up his SON Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

N(NEW)KJV

Acts 3:25:
You are the sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His SERVANT Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities.

In the KJV, we find that Jesus is God's Son. In the NKJV, we find that He is God's servant. These are clearly not the same! The Greek word found in the text here is "pais". It can be used in Greek for either "son" or "servant." So which one is correct here?

The solution is simple: look at the context in which it is used. In English, we have many words that can have more than one meaning. If a translator, going from English to another language, came across the word "bear," he would have a choice of meanings. But it wouldn't take rocket science to figure out which one to use.

If the passage described a man with a heavy burden, the translator would understand that the man is going to "bear," or "carry" the burden. If, on the other hand, the passage described a hairy beast climbing a tree, the translator would understand the correct meaning here applies to a forest-dwelling animal that will eat nearly anything it finds. It's not really very hard.

Now look at the Bible passage above. What is being discussed?

* children of the prophets"

* "covenant which God made with our fathers"

* "in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed."

It's clear, isn't it? The passage is talking about "children," and "fathers" and "seed." The word "pais" means "son." But the New King James translators chose "servant." Why? They were not alone. The New World Translation, created by the Jehovah's Witnesses who deny the deity of Jesus(Jews/Muslims also deny the deity), translated this word "servant" also. So do the NIV, ASV, NASB and other modern Bible translations.

Could it be that these modern translators disagree that "pais" can be translated "son?" No, the NKJV committee translates this very word as "boy," "child" or "son" in Matthew 2:16; 17:18; 21:15; Luke 2:43; 9:42; and John 4:51. Yet they refused to translate the word as "son" in this powerful sermon where Peter presents Jesus as Messiah and Son of God

WOW THIS IS A LOT 2 TAKE IN AT ONCE…

Ok now that’s about it I guess im sure I will have more question as I mature and all atht stuff
so now addressing the post made b4 mine…

-------------------------------
POSTED BY fightngwrmwood

As far as your reference to that conversation between Peter and Jesus, I don't see any contradiction. I guess I am confused as to why you think there is one.

In matthew jesus says cngradulations (summing this up) when simon peter replies 2 his questions.. who do u think I am

In luke jesus tells him not 2 tell nebody this and charges him with it.

There where my confuson arises…
------------------------------------
POSTED BY: sunshine307
God does not tell us to worship Him by putting the highest part of our body to the ground.

I KNOW GOD DOESN’T TELL US 2 DO THIS… its just a teaching.. like a philosophy if you will that’s all. But if you look jesus, abraham, moses all “fell on their faces” when they talked or prayed to Godor his angels… this is why I do it… it has nothing 2 do with islam at all. If they did it and they are our teacher then I feel that I should do it in m attempts 2 “please” God.

POSTED BY: Nigh
Islam rejects the concept of the Trinity. The Koran misrepresents the teaching of Christianity regarding the Godhead, claiming Christians believe in "three Gods" - Father, Mother, and Son. (Sura 5:116, 5:73-75; cp. (Koran 5:114)

YES ISLAM DOES REJECT THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE TRINITY CUZ MOUSLEMs BELIEVE God is the only being worthy of worship and praise and jesus is not a a being who had powers but his powers wre only allowed by god himself…
and I am very aware of this passge
but I do not see where u got the idea of islam miss interpreting it or the Christian trinity…

The qu’ran I have in front of me says as follows

Surah 5. The Table, The Table Spread
73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
74. Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.
75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
[5.116] And when Allah will say: O Isa (Isa is Jesus) son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
It says two gods yes.. but is jesus not God himself who wlaked this earth I mean that is what my Christian side of my family teaches me isn’t he not 2 be praised n worshiped like a god…
and the whole father, mother, thing.. I dunno where that came from but I am sure your intentions were both honest and positive…
And I sia dthat the bnoks were pretty much the same except for jesus… I meant like his whole status …
if he died on the corss he was the saviour if he was risen up he wasn’t thts was included of my “status” description of jesus when I said both books are very similar except for jesus being who he was.

Ok I think o covered everything I wanted 2 know…

oh wait one more thing

well actually 2 lol

Did you know that wine in Hebrew means onios and and onios means ‘unfermenetd grape juice’ pretty cool huh
so yea the whoel time everybody was drink welches LOL

And one last question… very simple I promise you

How come Christianity allows consumption of Pork?
in De. 14:8
it says that pork is forbidden
and a lot of people say that God wa sonly talking to the jews at the time but theres no pigs in the desert and theres no fish in the desert either cuz he talks about what we are aloud 2 eat in the water as well.
And I know jesus made anew convenat and said that all food is clean or maybe it was peter my memory is slippin its 2 am again but once again jesus says follow the law of moses.

but if ur not allowed 2 eat something its not food, am I right?
I mean you could eat wood, but its not food. So if your not allowed 2 eat it how doe sit make it food? Ou know what I mean

tahts just curiosity anyways… maybe some could answer that too?

well I think tah covers everything
if you have been able 2 read all of this THANK YOU 4 UR TIME..
if I offended you I did not mean to it was not my intention and I am sorry anyway if did, I did not mean 2 disresepct Jesus in anyway what so ever nor paul or anyothe prophet in the bible, or God 4 that matter.

SORRY SORRY SORRY
I know this is a weird place 2 be asking questions like this
but I ned an unbiased opinion
so u see I cant really asked a mouslem about this LOL cuz u already know what the would say LOL

wel I hoep some out there can help me out

thank you everybody 4 reading this and SOOOOOOOO SORRY 4 THE GRAMMAR I KNOW ITS HORRIBLE maybe if im lucky god will bless me with some skills in that too LOL

well look 4ward 2 ur rplies everybody.
THANK AGAIN
AND SORRY

----------

STUCK, in the middle
 
Member
Hello Mat, I read your posts and I can understand your troubles in trying to make sense of the Holy Scriptures and the Quran. First let me assure you the the Bible and the Quran may appear to be simular, that they are not. They have totally different inspiration and authorship.
So reading, studying and comparing both will only lead you into more confusion.

If you have read the bible than surely you have come across many of the passages that describe the way we must come to a true knowledge of Christ. It is God the Father revealing His Son Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. Not by our own intellect.

1Corinthians 2:10-16
10 But we know these things because God has revealed them to us by his Spirit, and his Spirit searches out everything and shows us even God’s deep secrets. 11 No one can know what anyone else is really thinking except that person alone, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. 12 And God has actually given us his Spirit (not the world’s spirit) so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. 13 When we tell you this, we do not use words of human wisdom. We speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.* 14 But people who aren’t Christians can’t understand these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means. 15 We who have the Spirit understand these things, but others can’t understand us at all. 16 How could they? For,
“Who can know what the Lord is thinking?
Who can give him counsel?”*
But we can understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.

The Truth about Christ is more than an obtainable knowledge. It is an encounter that can lead you to a reality of God that is impossible to experience in any other way or fashion. Jesus, the only begotten Son of God came in the flesh and willingly died by crucifixion for your sins Mat. The very things that seperate you from knowing God.
Now when the Holy Spirit reveals this to you and you respond in faith, you will encounter the Christ. If you will humble yourself and accept this free Gift of Jesus' sacrifice of His life than you will experience repentence.

Now, after all of this you can experience the presence of God in a way that seems impossible or crazy to man, but in a way that pleases God. He will live in you.

Seek God for a relationship with Him Mat and I promise you He will reveal His Son, Jesus to you.
 
Member
Hi Mat,
On your understanding of "righteous"...

Righteousness: means that upon repentance and belief in Christ, individuals are forensically declared righteous. This righteousness is not the believer's own, rather it is Christ's own righteousness 'imputed' to the believer.

The righteous are those who trust that they will be vindicated by the Lord God. (Psalm 37:12-13).

Righteousness, like the Kingdom of Heaven, is God's gift through grace, (Matthew 5:6, 6:33).

Righteous doesn't mean without sin, but rather already forgiven of sin. In the old Testiment those people are the ones who sacrificed thier lambs and followed the laws given to them by Moses. In the new Testiment it would reffer to those who have escepted the gift of salvation thru Jesus Christ.
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Sura5:116 said:
O Isa (Isa is Jesus) son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say);...
This is a missrepresentation of what Christians believe. We do NOT believe that Jesus' mother Mary ever said that she is a God, nor did anyone else, including Jesus. Furthermore, Jesus doesn't say he is a god other than the one true God the Father. In your own understanding you believe that Jesus doesn't claim to be anthing other that a man, or servant of God.
mat said:
...why dont u believe that jesus is the UNIQUE son of god or that he god in the flesh...
and then i simply say necause jesus doesnt say he is or doesnt tell anybody to worship him
So somehow you understand that Jesus (and I assume Mary) do not claim to be either part of the Trinity, nor other gods, but Sura 5:116 seems to think that they do. This is an attempt by the authors of the Koran to dissprove the triune nature of God (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), but falls horribly short because they themselves misunderstand what Christians belive. We don't place Mary in the trinity. The 3rd part of the trinity is the Spirit. The very part that lives inside every Christian. Not Mary, not even close.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now on your understanding the Jesus doen't call anyone to worship him...

(Luke 6:46-49)And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: (and he goes on to tell the parable of the house built on rock)
Here he clearly tells them to call him Lord and you will be like a man whose house is built on rock...it will weather the storm and be given stregnth.

Read also John 5, here he clearly says that he is equal to God. You have said that you read it already, and I'm not sure how you could missunderstand this chapter. May I humbley suggest that you read it again?

Read (John 9:35-41)...
Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."
Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."
Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?"
Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

Again, he clearly tells us that he is Lord.

There are passages that you believe show that Jesus is not equal to God, nor his Son. I will not quote them for the sake of time and space, but they said that "the father is greater than I" as well as others.
Understand this, Jesus humbled himself to come as flesh, with all the limitations of flesh so that he could endure all the temptations of flesh. In this way he shows that he can relate you us, and that we can endure what is surely in our futures...tribulation. Also he is an example on how to live our lives, in obedience to the Father. He couldn't show us how to live any better than to be an example in flesh. See Philippians 2:5-11.

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Gods grace be with you always,
Nigh
 
Member
Oh, amen jiggyfly! BELIEVE. That's exactly what the Bible says; BELIEVE...

JOHN 3

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Matt, BELIEVE...this is it and this is all. All of our striving in our human flesh to pick apart and understand the Bible does exactly what you're experiencing...cause confusion...and confusion is not of the Lord, it is of the enemy. In the above text in John chapter 3, Jesus Himself uses the word BELIEVE (or some tense of the word) 7 times! You are going to have to pray for the Lord to send the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of your heart and reveal the Truth of the scriptures to you, Matt, so that you too can BELIEVE.

I did want to point out one more thing. I noticed in your last post you stated:

"I feel that I should do it in m attempts 2 “please” God."

Here is where the Christian faith differs from so many other faiths. Matt, there is nothing we can "do" "to please God". No "doing", "trying" or "striving" to be a better person in our flesh would ever be enough! If this were true, Jesus would not have had to come to this earth, be born of the flesh and die on the cross for our sins. In God's eyes we are all worthy of death, but because of His love, grace and mercy, He sent His Son to suffer the penalty that we all deserve...death. There is nothing we can "do" "to please God". But, if you feel you must "do" something "to please God", then BELIEVE in Jesus as the Son of God. Jesus' sacrifice is a "get-out-jail-free" card for you and me that we must simply believe in and receive. It's a gift and we don't "do" anything to receive gifts, they're simply given to us.

Man, I'd say we got a great deal, wouldn't you? I'll use the illustration that our pastor uses often. Say you have been caught stealing (sin) and you go to court for your crime (sin). There is going to be a penalty (death for our sins against God) that you have to pay for the crime (sin) you committed. Now the judge (God) is set to render judgement (death) on you when your lawyer (Jesus) says that he is willing to pay the penalty (die) for your crime (sin). The judge (God) agrees to this as long as the penalty (death) is paid. Your lawyer (Jesus) turns to you and says, "You are free to go. I will pay your debt for the crime you committed." AWESOME!!!

Well, I sincerely pray that this does not confuse you further but that the Holy Spirit will use what I've written here to help to bring some understanding to you regarding what Christianity is about. It's so simple, Matt. There will be nothing that any of us here can say to you that will help you understand (because that's flesh talking to flesh). It will be the Holy Spirit that will help you understand (because that's Spirit talking to spirit). And I pray for that to happen; for the Holy Spirit to take whatever is shared with you here by the saints and make it reality to you! Stop struggling in your flesh to make sense of the Gospel with your human understanding and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to your spirit-man so that you can believe....just believe!

God bless you with spiritual understanding, Matt!
 
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Member

mat

THANK YOU EVERYBODY... I AM SO HAPPY YOUU DID NOT FIND THAT OFFENSIVE
I HAVE POSTED things like this on other forums befre and i was only banned from the sites

well you guys did manage to answer a lot of my questions, but naturally i have more...

dont worry this is going 2 be quick i promise

1st off I understand this is flesh speaking to flesh and our knowledge and ‘answers’ are limited to this simple fact

now..
nigh your post was extremely helpful thank you

but on the topic of worshipping Jesus when he tells people to call him lord and people comply with this and infact do call him lord.
but the word “lord”… was used by many people to address any ranking which was higher than them
for example if I was an ant and you were a big boot would I not call you lord
like a slave to his master would?? (back then)

Please understand I have been brought up with both teachings and not one stronger than the other.. I have attended church and mosque many times and my pastor is aware of this, and of course it does not bother him.. he syas that its good that I have been exposed to both cuase when I realize the truth I will be a tool against the other to help others realize the truth. Cool thought I like to have.

now as for the teachings being the same… I am sorry if you do not find them the same or similar… but I must disagree with you here..
although written by different PEOPLE they do preach the same thing ( EXCEPT FOR THE STATUS OF JESUS AND WHO HE INFACT REALLY WAS, and this obviously goes with the good deeds out doing the bad deeds thing. As in islam there is no “saviour” but god alone)
But I mean war terms, diet, marriage, praying, being kind to people, none of this stuff u see on CNN LOL. And other overlooked things like you know things like just humbing yourself…. For example it does not say you have 2 bow down but if you notice jesus , Abraham, moses all do it.. infact they are described as taking steps forward and falling on their faces.

If you are interested I would be happy to supply info
sorry I just have a fascination with other cultures and sometimes I try 2 get other people involved to LOL

And that passage you supplied the sura 5
I see where you are coming from I really do…
but you must understand one thing… when the quran was written there were many heretic Christian sects running around. One of them was an all women sect who preached that mary was infact a god. Look it up its actually kind of interning. Although it is hardly an explanation, that passged is directed a people whom pray to mary and then she prays to jesus n him 2 god (Catholicism)

OH! If you guys have questions for me I wll bne happy 2 take…

Now the definition of righteous was very helpful nigh thank you. but paul still said that there was no one righteous or will ever be
I am curious as to what he might mean by that? When there are direct passges trhat directly go against this claim.
and why does he cal the law a curse? When jesus says he ha coe2 fufill it???
PLEASE HELP?

POSTED BY:NIGH
Righteousness: means that upon repentance and belief in Christ, individuals are forensically declared righteous. This righteousness is not the believer's own, rather it is Christ's own righteousness 'imputed' to the believer.

The righteous are those who trust that they will be vindicated by the Lord God. (Psalm 37:12-13).

Righteousness, like the Kingdom of Heaven, is God's gift through grace, (Matthew 5:6, 6:33).

If this infact is a crect definition of righteousness then how come these passages exist


GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).

RO 3:10, 3:23 No one was or is righteous.
[Romans 3:10] "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

why does paul say this???

PLEASE HELP


THANK U VERY MUCH EVERYONE

I THINK AFTRE I RECEIVE REPLIES FROM U
I AM JUST GOIN 2 READ 2 MY HEARDS CONTENT

I HAVE READ ALL EXCEPT ONE BOOK OF THE OLD TESTAMENT FRON 2 BACK
AND MAJORITY OF HE NEW TESTAMENT… AND I HAVE 2 REALIZE U R RIGHT ABOUT THAT WHEN GOD WANTS 2 ME REALZIE “THE TRUTH” I WILL

SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ANSWERIG A LOT OF MY QUESTIONS AND SORRY IF I OFFENDED ANY ONE YOU. THIS WAS NOT INTENTION

MAT
------

GETTING OUT, of the middle
 
Member
Mat,
I do oppologise for the somewhat incomplete explanation of 'righteous', for I am a busy, busy man. That post was in no way intended to be all encompassing or final. Again, I am sorry, for you deserve better of me. Please except my oppologies, as I continue.

Righteous: In one sense, it is an attribute of God whereby he is said to be holy and righteous. In another sense it refers to the righteousness of man; either his inherent righteousness (or the lack thereof), or his potential right standing before God or as being "judged" or "reckoned" as righteous by God (as the patriarch Abraham was in Genesis).

The English word righteous was coined by William Tyndale, who remodelled the word after an earlier word rihtwis, which would have yielded Modern English *rightwise or *rightways. He used it to translate the Hebrew root TzDQ, which appears more than five hundred times in the Hebrew Bible, and the Greek word dikaios (δικαιος), which appears more than two hundred times in the New Testament.

When we speak of the Old Testiment, its chief meaning concerns ethical conduct. (E.g., Leviticus 19:36; Deuteronomy 25:1; Psalm 1:6; Proverbs 8:20) It is used in a legal sense; while the guilty are judged, the guiltless are deemed righteous. God's faithfulness to His covenant is also a large part of His righteousness. (Nehemiah 9:7-8)
Righteousness also relates to God's rôle as saviour; God is a "righteous saviour"; (Isaiah 61) and a deliverer. (Isaiah 46:12-13) The righteous are those who trust that they will be vindicated by the Lord God. (Psalm 37:12-13).
The Hebrew word for righteousness is tseh'-dek, Gesenius's Strong's Concordance:6664—righteous, integrity, equity, justice, straightness.


The New Testament continues the Hebrew Bible's tradition of the ethical (1 Thessalonians 2:10) and legal (1 Corinthians 4:4) aspects of righteousness, but adds the element that Jesus embodies righteousness, (Acts 3:14). According to the New Testament, Jesus came to the world to address the needs, not of "the righteous", but of "sinners," (Mark 2:17). Righteousness, like the Kingdom of Heaven, is God's gift through grace, (Matthew 5:6, 6:33).

Paul of Tarsus speaks of a way to achieve righteousness: through faith in the atonement made possible through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, (Romans 10:3-13). The New Testament speaks of a salvation founded on God's righteousness, as exemplified throughout the history of salvation narrated in the Old Testament, (Romans, ch. 9-11).

The righteousness that Paul speaks of is achieved through faith, and given as a gift of God to those who call on Jesus as their Lord and Savior. In Romans 3:10, you must look at the whole chapter. A jew askes Paul several questions as to why the Jews don't have a better claim to the Gospel than the Gentiles. He then proves that both Jews and Gentiles are under sin. And so that the Jew can not reject this claim he uses the Jewish text of Isa.53 (I believe) which says that no man is righteous in himself. In himself is the important part that you can not leave out. For righteousness is found in Christ alone, and you, me and 6 billion other men women and children can do nothing to find righeousness in ourselves.

It is important that you not look at just one or two passages and cast meaning on the whole from a few. In order to obtain a good understanding, you really must look at the whole word of God.
God's plan for salvation was spelled out clearly in the old Testiment thru his prophets. Jesus lived out that plan completely. (which is recorded, not only in the Bible, but by Jewish and Roman historians, who do not believe in Jesus' divinity) If you were to take just one passage about the plan for a savior from the Old Testiment, you could assume that some guy who died, and not one of his bones was broken, was the Savior. (See: Num.9:12; Ps. 34:20; Ex. 12:46) That is the danger of only putting some of the pieces together.
Jesus did not prophesy on the plan of salvation, as he lived it. Salvation is what God wants for all of mankind. It is the final stage of life, if you will. Once Jesus lived it, there was no need to prophesy about it anymore, it now is time to teach it, and spread the good news to all the earth. With salvation taken care of, the only thing left to prophesy about it judgement. Forgive me, I am getting of topic.

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Lord

With a definite article and capitalisation, "The Lord" (Hebrew Adonai, Greek Kyrios, Latin Dominus) serves as an epithet of Yahweh, the God of the Jews and Christians. Christians also use the phrase "Our Lord" (or "The Lord") with reference to Jesus. Paul was a Jew, before he followed Jesus, and this is the "Lord" that he uses. Kyrios, the Greek word for God. He is not reffering simply to one who has authority over him.

As used in Luke 6:46...
G2962
κύριος
kurios
koo'-ree-os
From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master.
 
Member
Hi Mat,

Wish I had more time for this, but I too am busy! Just wanted to respond to this:

(fww) - As far as your reference to that conversation between Peter and Jesus, I don't see any contradiction. I guess I am confused as to why you think there is one.

(Mat) -In matthew jesus says cngradulations (summing this up) when simon peter replies 2 his questions.. who do u think I am

In luke jesus tells him not 2 tell nebody this and charges him with it.

There where my confuson arises…



fww, here now, :)

So I am going to post the scriptures and maybe this will help. Cos I just don't see what you are seeing!

Matthew 16:13-20 and Luke 9:18-21 (parallelled)

Matthew 16 13: When Jesus came to the region of Caesara Philipi he put this question to his disciples.

Luke 9:18 Now it happened when Jesus was praying alone, and his disciples came ot him and he put this question to them,


So far so good, right? But we are given two different persepctives of the same event. Matthew tells us where the event is happening geographically, Luke tells us the detail that Jesus was praying alone. Then they both say, Jesus asked them a question.


Matthew 16:14 'Who do the poeple say the Son of man is?'
Luke 19:19 "Who do the crowds say I am?"

Matthew 16:14 And they said, 'Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremaih or one of the prophets.

Luke 9:19 And they answered, "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah; others again one of the ancient prophets come back to life."

Matthew 16:15 'But you,' He said, 'Who do you say I am?'

Luke 9:20 'But you,' he said to them, 'who do you say I am.'

Matthew 16:16 Then Simon Peter spoke up and said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.'

Luke 9:20
It was Peter who spoke up. "The Christ of God, he said."

Matthew 16:17-19 Jesus replied. 'Simon, son of Jonah, you are a blessed man! Because it was no human agency that revealed this to you but my Father in heaven. So I now say to you: you are Peter and on this rock I will build my community. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.'

Matthew 17: 20 Then he gave strict orders not to say to anyone that he was the Christ.

Luke 9:21
But he gave them strict orders and charged them not to say this to anyone.



Perhaps you are concerned that Jesus' reply is in Matthew, but Luke summarized what he deemed the most important point? Why is that?

My bible gives some background and it says that Luke often omits things because they are not of interest to his non-Jewish readers or he found them unnecessarily repetitive. Matthew on the other hand is very concerned with the Jewish reader and focuses on the fufillment of the Law. In the case of the bonds loosed in heaven, my hunch would be that Jewish people are concerned with all the sacrifices and sin offerings and Matthew is writing to emphasize that Christians have keys to the kingdom. The fact they don't need priests to loose things is a very big deal to Jewish people in a way that it would not be to Gentiles.

However, hunches and speculation aside, I honestly do not see any contradiciton in the text. Luke does not quote Jesus, he sums up. Other than that these stories are nearly identical.

Hope this helps.
fww
 
Member

mat

WOW!!
thanks a lot guys
that was great...
well i guess all i can do now isread the rest and figure it all out for myself.....

really, that was great.. i have never recieved answr in such detail...
thnx again

but im still wondering... what is with the christianity allowin pork consumption?
or did i misunderstand that 2
cuz deutor... 14:8 say dpnt eat pork
and ppl say well god was speakin 2 the jews only
but there is no pigs in the desert n then god goes on 2say dont eat certain creature sin the water and etc
theer are also no fish in the desert cuz the desert is dry

just wondering

but as for the rest... thanks a lot

well i gues si have some reading to do
i will be back when i am much more clear on this i justd ont feel im ready... 2

thanx again everyone.. that was great

although i am not 100% ready 2 make a choice u have helped a lot
and i wil be reading posts as they are "posted" LOL and commenting on them if thats ok (with questions)
so um yea c ya 4 now

------
 
Member

mat

oh one more thing aagain..
why does paul call the law a a curse???

maybe i missunderstoiod this but form what i read paul calls the law of mooeses a curse and the ppl who follow the law are cursed as well


????

thanx
 
Member
mat said:
oh one more thing aagain..
why does paul call the law a a curse???
maybe i missunderstoiod this but form what i read paul calls the law of mooeses a curse and the ppl who follow the law are cursed as well
????
thanx
I don't understand your motive for these questions Mat. Are you seeking to have a relationship with God? Please enlighten me. What do you hope to gain from the answers to your questions. I really want to understand.
 
Member

mat

i am simply confused.. and was just curious
i mean i read the book

but i just wanted to know if i made proper sense of it or not thats all

i did not mean to offend anybody.. you have no idea how much this site has helped me out

i am sorry my intention wa snot to offend any body it was just a question
i thought if maybe you guys could give such great answers on the last question i had maybe you could help me understand this too
thats all?
 
Member
Just believe

Hi you have seen many good seed form the members of this site- so I just have one more for you just BELIEVE in God. The only way to get to God is by his son the lamb, the Lord Jesus Christ. John 14:6 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but by me.
God knows what your imaginations are right now, so just ask him for a sign that Jesus is the truth (real) he will do it. The Holy Spirit is at your door that's why you're are asking these questions-JUST ASK JESUS TO FORGIVE YOU OF YOUR SINS, AND ASK HIM TO COME INTO YOU HEART.
 

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