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It is sin to be so enraptured by ourselves, humanity, and this mere physical realm with our little lifetimes in it, that our greatest desire is not to understand the bigger picture and what God/Jesus is about. Jesus called His disciples friend because we know what He's up to. There are two things that are delaying Him putting His foot down again on this little pebble in universe/planet that we call earth. The first is that He is waiting on the last one of us mere humans to come to Him that we might gain entrance into His kingdom before it is fully established in this physical realm. The rich young ruler came but went away sad. The second thing He is waiting on, is for us humans to achieve such stupidity that we begin the war that will culminate in the battle which is called Armageddon which will be ended by His return.
 
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If it is not sin to not understand the things of God, then is it not death? Without Life which Jesus is, what hope do we have beyond someone throwing dirt over our faces? About 3000 years ago King Solomon wrote these words:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he." Prov 29:18

Then about a thousand years later, well after Jesus was born, died and resurrected the Apostle Paul wrote these words:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

The 'vision' mentioned by Solomon existed but it still not as clear as it should or could be. Why? Consider what Jesus did here:

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

That blind required a second touch from Jesus to clarify his vision. How many touches will be required for each of us to attain to the "face to face" of which Paul wrote?
 
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Living in this physical realm is bringing death whether we gain understanding before we die or not. There is a difference between everlasting life and mere physical ongoing. Despite human self-worship only One, born of a virgin, has kept the law 100% for the joy that was set before Him.. In our mere physical flesh we won't understand peace that passes understanding. None of us are God/Jesus and none of us will earn face to face with Jesus, only He will provide in His mercy and grace.The kingdom of God/Jesus is more than mere physical sensation, Jesus passed through physical walls after resurrection. @amadeus2
 
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Living in this physical realm is bringing death whether we gain understanding before we die or not.
My belief is that we are all born dead and will remain so until and if we receive the Life that Jesus brought. If we never receive any Life nor any understanding, then we live on as a being of flesh only until it returns to the dust from which it came.

There is a difference between everlasting life and mere physical ongoing.
I agree!

Despite human self-worship only One, born of a virgin, has kept the law 100% for the joy that was set before Him.. In our mere physical flesh we won't understand peace that passes understanding. None of us are God/Jesus and none of us will earn face to face with Jesus, only He will provide in His mercy and grace.The kingdom of God/Jesus is more than mere physical sensation, Jesus passed through physical walls after resurrection. @amadeus2
Has not anyone who has really been born from above [born again] already been resurrected from the dead? Were we not dead until and if we received Life, the Life that Jesus was and that He made it possible for us to receive?
 
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Spiritual death, which is the withdrawal of God/Jesus personal fellowship as Adam had in the garden and lost for humanity, and physical death, which is the cessation of physical interaction, are different. This doesn't mean that God/Jesus has not been with humanity always, anyhow, and it doesn't mean that He doesn't draw near to us if we draw near to Him, like Moses to the bush. Born of the spirit is not born physically in the likeness of God/Jesus. Even though we are crucified with Him and yet live. @amadeus2
If getting mad didn't make me mad my humanness or non-Godness would make me but this is where I am at this moment. I'm sure you're a human, too, but when we see Him and become like Him that'll be glorious. All I've seen otherwise are mere humans one and all. We can tell ourselves we are alright but we aren't God/Jesus.
 
Loyal
Spiritual death, which is the withdrawal of God/Jesus personal fellowship as Adam had in the garden and lost for humanity, and physical death, which is the cessation of physical interaction, are different.
I Don't disagree with this but, I believe, we need to be recognizing this difference when we are reading scripture. People have always been dead to God from the time of Adam and Eve until now... until and if He offered and they received Life.

God offered people more when He sent His Son to us, but this doesn't mean that He offered nothing those whose time was prior the birth, death, resurrection of Jesus and the pouring out of the Holy Ghost as per Acts chapter 2. We must always remember that God is no respecter of persons and therefore is always fair. Only He is capable of measuring the differences between us that are here now and those who were here before.

As we read the OT we will often be seeing types and shadows of the reality of God for us which can be depicted more clearly by means of the Holy Ghost within us. I don't pretend to understand all of the real differences between us and those who lived their time here prior to Jesus, but really I don't believe it is necessary for us to do so. I do believe that more has been given to us than was usually was given to them and therefore more is required of us:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

This doesn't mean that God/Jesus has not been with humanity always, anyhow, and it doesn't mean that He doesn't draw near to us if we draw near to Him, like Moses to the bush. Born of the spirit is not born physically in the likeness of God/Jesus. Even though we are crucified with Him and yet live. @amadeus2
If getting mad didn't make me mad my humanness or non-Godness would make me but this is where I am at this moment. I'm sure you're a human, too, but when we see Him and become like Him that'll be glorious. All I've seen otherwise are mere humans one and all. We can tell ourselves we are alright but we aren't God/Jesus.
Give God the glory!
 
Member
It is for God/Jesus' pleasure that humanity is and was created and from the sixth and eighth day of creation we are and were mere humans, not counting Adam. God/Jesus alone is more than all of us, including Adam. God/Jesus alone is glorious whether we, mere humans, give Him His due or not. He alone is glorious in my view and it is my intent that He alone be glorified in my testimony, not any mere human.
 

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