Is Ravi Zacharias in Hell?

[Cactus Kitten]

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I feel you need to better read replies here. Nobody is speaking evil about Ravi. The context of ''judging'' here is a long reply. I will just say it has to do with sentencing / punishing from vindictiveness.

Reading replies here is what led to my offering the aforementioned scripture in rebuttal to that which believes they are led by God's word to judge a departed brother who cannot defend himself using gossip as evidence.

Gossip is evil. The things we say about the dead says a lot about us.

 

[Cactus Kitten]

No
Peoples misinterpret this scripture as being instantly being in Heaven with our Lord Jesus.
It does not state that. Paul is referring to being wearied in the flesh and groaning while we live on Earth waiting for the day that he will be freed from the sufferings of the flesh.
2Corinthians 5:2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, [compare with]
Romans 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
When a Spirit-filled Christians dies having kept the faith they are dead in Christ - not separated from Him spiritually - awaiting the last trumpet and to be transformed in the twinkling of eye into immortality.
The dead of the world do go into Sheol or Hades to await resurrection. some the first, but for most the second resurrection of Rev 20.

I think you're trying to make a distinction where there is actually no difference as pertains to 2 Corinthians 5:8 . Paul is saying there that when we die we return to the Lord. As did Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Genesis 2:7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.

No one is yet in Hell.

 

[Downunder]

We can argue or debate over this doctrine all day long,
but in the end the moment of truth comes when we die. Then we will know what happens.

 

[TheWaytoGo]

i just don't like these people how they call people the man of God the woman of GOD. for years and lift these people so high. Then after years when they die and their sins come to light, Now they are on their way to hell or now they are not saved. Stop lifting these people up in the beginning. There is none righteous no not one. And keep these leaders under tight control. Apostle Paul and Peter, did not have to deal with high heel shoes nylon stocking shapely skirts, sweet smelling aphrodisiac perfumes, legs showing females, big hip "Delilah"'s.

And some men are hardly never hit on my women, But some men are, hit on a lot and they look good. And some women, know how to talk, and make you for get all about GOD.. And that Devil, toss some of that "Star Dust" in the air, feels like Magic. and put those Spiritual handcuffs on you! You cannot move! That devil has power, That is why the only escape, you must Run! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO LEAVE THAT CHURCH! You will be surprise of some of these women, that has a certain type of power surrounding them. Will destroy you! A lot you men have not experience this, because you are no threat to the kingdom of God and its message. The devil is not going mess with you on such a level. So you all sit around at the round table , gossiping and slandering men after the have fallen or pronounce dead. and never condemning the acts of these women that are nothing but the Agents of Satan! Shame on all you men and women! For not calling these women, out, they are not innocent!

Shame, you don't mind making them presidents, vice president, CEO, Pastors, Ministers, Teachers of the BIBle! And soon as one has cause a man to fall, and cried tears, and tore up homes and family by such a great deception, You jealous men, the 1st thing you do, is tear the man a part. I know you slanders your are sinners, I been have sexual assault about 3 times in my life, and threaten, by them of lies, and I have been scared to tell anybody, because I know christian evil ways! and how they respond to Godly men!

These women wear G strings tight Skirts, sexual heels, Gap legs sitting , showing the tops of their breasts, flirting with other men in the Church. And christians on a full scale do not call them out into pure embarrassment! This looks good and very attractive to a strong and healthy man full of Testosterone. Eye candy to the man. A strong man cannot hold those feelings back! it is time for all to get real!

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil."

King James Bible
"Neither give place to the devil".

American Standard Version
Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is caused to stumble, and I burn not?

King James Version
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

We are to proclaim good news, They should have spoke out when he was doing this! How come they did not see this, while it was going on, Blind as bat they were. He is dead now, Now the are discussing not the "gospel of Jesus Christ" but the doctrine of Speculation"! There is nothing good they are talking about.

I wish i could really say what i want to say about these slanders.

I stopped paying attention to any in the book/bible selling, tv show broadcasting, one-man-pastor-centered churches making up the "Christian" business decades ago. I only watch the videos of Servus Christi on You Tube to find out what's going on with those people without wasting my time investigating. Never heard of Ravi until seeing one of Joshua's videos concluding Zacharias to be a false teacher, ecumenicist and likely sexual pervert at least two years ago, for which he was pilliaried as a horrific liar. Turned out, everything he warned people about him was true.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

And after all this blat..After so many Christians condemned Ravi there is NO evedence whatsoever that he was involved in any of this....Its all internet gossip....And how many Christians fell for it....and joined in the crucifixion of this man? That is NOT love.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Very interesting discussion. They are discussing the Ravi Z scandal that came
out after his death.

Full report on the investigation is here.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/rzimmedia.rzim.org/assets/downloads/Report-of-Investigation.pdf

Reminds me that we are all sinners and need to guard our hearts and beware of giving the devil any foothold in your life.

Our faith is in Jesus, not in our leaders, yet we need to be honest with our struggles and ask for help if we are struggling with sin.

Let me see if I have this right: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..." Is that about right?

I don't know Ravi's heart, whether he prayed for forgiveness each time he missed the mark, or in his dying breath cried out to the Lord "Have mercy on me, a sinner!" I loved Ravi way back when, and I love him still. And I cry out still "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner."

All the hypocrites in line to stone Ravi, look, the Lord is writing with HIS hand in the dirt before you.

 

[B-A-C]

All the hypocrites in line to stone Ravi, look, the Lord is writing with HIS hand in the dirt before you.

I mostly agree with you here. I didn't start this thread, so I don't know the motivation behind it.

Is it to judge Ravi? Or is to ask the question, if we don't repent are we still saved? (no matter what our name is)
I don't know all the details in Ravi's case.

But I do know if we don't repent, and we keep willfully choosing live a sinful lifestyle... there remains no more sacrifice for our sins. ( Heb 10:26; )
I also know that adulterers and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. ( 1Cor 6:9-10; )
The Bible says God will judge adulterers. ( Heb 13:4; )

Now I believe that God has mercy, forgiveness, grace, and all of that... but at some point we have to repent.
If (fill in any name you like) was still involved in adulterous affairs when he died. The Bible says he won't inherit the kingdom of God.

It's interesting that Ravi himself rejected Calvinism/OSAS. So even he himself believed he could lose his salvation.

Yes, Jesus told the Pharisee's... if you are without sin, go ahead and throw the rocks. But he also told the woman... go and sin no more.

John 8:11; She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I mostly agree with you here. I didn't start this thread, so I don't know the motivation behind it.

Is it to judge Ravi? Or is to ask the question, if we don't repent are we still saved? (no matter what our name is)
I don't know all the details in Ravi's case.

But I do know if we don't repent, and we keep willfully choosing live a sinful lifestyle... there remains no more sacrifice for our sins. ( Heb 10:26; )
I also know that adulterers and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. ( 1Cor 6:9-10; )
The Bible says God will judge adulterers. ( Heb 13:4; )

Now I believe that God has mercy, forgiveness, grace, and all of that... but at some point we have to repent.
If (fill in any name you like) was still involved in adulterous affairs when he died. The Bible says he won't inherit the kingdom of God.

It's interesting that Ravi himself rejected Calvinism/OSAS. So even he himself believed he could lose his salvation.

Yes, Jesus told the Pharisee's... if you are without sin, go ahead and throw the rocks. But he also told the woman... go and sin no more.

John 8:11; She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

I think it's more a case of "He who is without sin..."

 

[JerryfromMass]

And if we confess our sin, "HE is faithful and just to forgive us."

When does God not forgive when sin is confessed from a penitent heart?

Ravi knew he was at death's door, and he knew better than anyone but God his faults and failures. If you - any of you reading this, lives in sinless perfection (and don't discount your private sins of which only you and God know), any of you, kindly reveal yourself so that the world might know the one and only fully human to have done that which only the fully human/fully God Jesus Christ has done.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

And if we confess our sin, "HE is faithful and just to forgive us."

When does God not forgive when sin is confessed from a penitent heart?

Ravi knew he was at death's door, and he knew better than anyone but God his faults and failures. If you - any of you reading this, lives in sinless perfection (and don't discount your private sins of which only you and God know), any of you, kindly reveal yourself so that the world might know the one and only fully human to have done that which only the fully human/fully God Jesus Christ has done.

"and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness" Whch means we are not a sinner but righteous in the anointing.

 

[PloughBoy]

GOD the Father does no have to forgive the unregenerate sinner, just because they confess their sins.

The Bible says: If "WE" confess our sins He will forgive "US"! For he is faithful and just. we does not mean everybody, us does not mean everybody. I am afraid many of us have to go back and learn english grammar again.

When the Bible use the words "us", "we", "many", most of the time it is not referring to everybody, And when the Bible says" God so love the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever...ff Does not mean he loves every body in the world with a salvation type love, it means as a whole, birds, animals, water, air, fish, dogs, people, the good, the bad , the ugly, all as a whole a "benevolent love"! The whole creation, for a purpose and that purpose is what is to be, but have not been "manifested" yet but "declared".

And Nominal christians can never understand this statement. No matter how much they read and study the word of GOD. For it is impossible for them to know the unadulterated "Truth" of GOD, for they have not the "Ability" to do so.

PS. is King David in hell?

 

[JerryfromMass]

GOD the Father does no have to forgive the unregenerate sinner, just because they confess their sins.

The Bible says: If "WE" confess our sins He will forgive "US"! For he is faithful and just. we does not mean everybody, us does not mean everybody. I am afraid many of us have to go back and learn english grammar again.

When the Bible use the words "us", "we", "many", most of the time it is not referring to everybody, And when the Bible says" God so love the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever...ff Does not mean he loves every body in the world with a salvation type love, it means as a whole, birds, animals, water, air, fish, dogs, people, the good, the bad , the ugly, all as a whole a "benevolent love"! The whole creation, for a purpose and that purpose is what is to be, but have not been "manifested" yet but "declared".

And Nominal christians can never understand this statement. No matter how much they read and study the word of GOD. For it is impossible for them to know the unadulterated "Truth" of GOD, for they have not the "Ability" to do so.

Are you saved? Do you sin? What sins? We know Ravi's sins (some of them at least), but are yours any different?

 

[JerryfromMass]

GOD the Father does no have to forgive the unregenerate sinner, just because they confess their sins.

The Bible says: If "WE" confess our sins He will forgive "US"! For he is faithful and just. we does not mean everybody, us does not mean everybody. I am afraid many of us have to go back and learn english grammar again.

When the Bible use the words "us", "we", "many", most of the time it is not referring to everybody, And when the Bible says" God so love the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever...ff Does not mean he loves every body in the world with a salvation type love, it means as a whole, birds, animals, water, air, fish, dogs, people, the good, the bad , the ugly, all as a whole a "benevolent love"! The whole creation, for a purpose and that purpose is what is to be, but have not been "manifested" yet but "declared".

And Nominal christians can never understand this statement. No matter how much they read and study the word of GOD. For it is impossible for them to know the unadulterated "Truth" of GOD, for they have not the "Ability" to do so.

PS. is King David in hell?

God doesn't have to forgive any sinner, not you, not me, not any, but HE does, for God "is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." 2 Peter 3:9.

When the Bible uses the words 'we' and 'us', and when John 3:16 says 'whosoever', it is indeed referring to anyone and everyone - people only, not animals, but any persons that have repented and believed and confessed Jesus as Savior and Lord.

When Jesus said "for God so loved the world", the word for love is ēgapēsen, which is from agape', which is love that is unconditionally and sacrificially given. There is no greater love, and God extends this love to anyone who believes.

King David's spirit is present with the Lord. Thought you'd know that.

 

[PloughBoy]

There is nothing worst than a "hen-peck" beta male. Speaking Like women are so weak, and are swayed away from the Truth of GOD's Word by "Alpha' males, but Beta males, they still proclaim that women are able to become President of Corporations, Pastors and Ministers of Religious organizations, even President of these United States and have not the power to "keep their legs closed"! But weak beta males makes strong arguments for them, by not knowing the Truth of GOD! And they cherry pick the word of GOD, to defend something they never had, and by never having, they begin a "Crusade" fueled by age old "jealousies". That even a blind mans vision can perceive.
Stepping on the grave of the dead, for Solomon had 700 wives and over 300 concubines. And you still quotes his Words. "Jealousy is as cruel as the grave"!

PS. really

 

[Dave M]

Are you saved? Do you sin? What sins? We know Ravi's sins (some of them at least), but are yours any different?

what do you do with this scripture, it flat out says the sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom of God,,,,,,,

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[JerryfromMass]

There is nothing worst than a "hen-peck" beta male. Speaking Like women are so weak, and are swayed away from the Truth of GOD's Word by "Alpha' males, but Beta males, they still proclaim that women are able to become President of Corporations, Pastors and Ministers of Religious organizations, even President of these United States and have not the power to "keep their legs closed"! But weak beta males makes strong arguments for them, by not knowing the Truth of GOD! And they cherry pick the word of GOD, to defend something they never had, and by never having, they begin a "Crusade" fueled by age old "jealousies". That even a blind mans vision can perceive.
Stepping on the grave of the dead, for Solomon had 700 wives and over 300 concubines. And you still quotes his Words. "Jealousy is as cruel as the grave"!

PS. really

You're an alpha male, plough boy? Hen pecked? You're certainly a misogynist, boy. I guess you'd have vehemently objected to God when HE chose Debbora. How would have made it clear to God that you object to a woman prophet and judge; a military leader as well? Woman can lead, plough boy, in many areas, in corprations, in politics, in the military, even as ministers to other women and to children in the congregation, except they can not lead in the Biblical teaching of men.

So go ahead: if you, boy, were in Israel at the time, and a military aged man, tell us how you'd address God regarding your objection to a woman leader - HIS choice of Debbora.

 

[JerryfromMass]

what do you do with this scripture, it flat out says the sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom of God,,,,,,,

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Unlike you, Dave, I believe God has great and abundant grace and mercy so as to forgive every sin you've ever committed and grant you everlasting life when you repent and place your faith trust and rest in the Lord Jesus. How unspeakable is HIS gift. So much so that even a sinner such as yourself can be forgiven and given eternal life in God's heavenly kingdom.

 

[Downunder]

PS. is King David in hell?

King David's spirit is present with the Lord. Thought you'd know that.

what does King David tell us himself about where he is?

Psalm 17:1 A Prayer of David. Hear a just cause, O LORD; attend to my cry! Give ear to my prayer from lips free of deceit!
Psalm 17:15 As for me, I shall behold your face in righteousness; when I awake, I shall be satisfied with your likeness.
a common theme in our Bible
Daniel 12:13 But go your way [Daniel] till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”

Job 14:12 so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep.
14:13 Oh that you would hide me in Sheol, that you would conceal me until your wrath be past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!

 

[Dave M]

Unlike you, Dave, I believe God has great and abundant grace and mercy so as to forgive every sin you've ever committed and grant you everlasting life when you repent and place your faith trust and rest in the Lord Jesus. How unspeakable is HIS gift. So much so that even a sinner such as yourself can be forgiven and given eternal life in God's heavenly kingdom.

I quoted scripture to you, I did not state any of my thoughts at all, and yet you have the gull to accuse me of something I never said,, I actually agree with what you said,,,

Repent does not mean confession, it means stop sinning, so if someone confess there sin for 20 years and is never freed from the bondage of sin have they truly repented ,,,, its between GOd and Ravi I would never try to assume I know what only God know,,, but I know what his word says when it come to the sexually immoral,,,that why I quoted the scripture,, I also know what his word says about repenting,,,,,,,, true repentence leads to freedom of the sin that has enslaved you

 

[Sue D.]

what do you do with this scripture, it flat out says the sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom of God,,,,,,,

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes, all those in that Scripture -- without repentence --will not inherit the kingdom of God.