Is Jesus "God"?

[RJ]

Marcus, the Son of God is God also. It is Triune God, the scriptures don't lie Titus 2:13 just for starters.

Also Jesus calls Himself God in Mat 4:7. He is calling Himself the tempter's God.

You have to believe in the Trinity and

• John 10: 29-30
• John 1:1

 

[Itz Me]

Marcus, the Son of God is God also. It is Triune God, the scriptures don't lie Titus 2:13 just for starters.

Also Jesus calls Himself God in Mat 4:7. He is calling Himself the tempter's God.

Hi! 'Marcus'
I found your statement saying, "The Scriptures don't lie", rather humorous.
While it's very true that the Scriptures don't lie ... it's also true that one's individual interpretation of them can cause them to unwittingly lie.
I hardly think that there's a Christian anywhere who hasn't, at one time or the other, mistakenly owned some scriptural interpretation which he later discovered to be patently false.
The pretentious ideologues and pious traditionalists of centuries gone by protested in similar manner and, in so doing, have grievously offended the church.
It makes me wonder how may sincere protesting Christians in this day would have eagerly persecuted Martin Luther and other Reformists with the accusation that, "The Scriptures don't lie!"
Furthermore, if someone near a Martin Luther were to once again appear within present-day Christianity and speak out against some other supposed falsehood, how many would choose to hear him?
It seems that the overwhelming majority of Christians today have the mind that the Spirit of Truth has inexplicably chosen to remain silent since the Reformation; evidently, there's no further need of reforming any theologies of our day ... we've supposedly expired all there is to know about scriptural truth,

 

[RawScot]

The creed which we haveis to bring all churches into alignment. But what is also important that what everyone agrees, is, that what is it that saves a man? If I can take you to John 3:16 (part of)........"That whoever so believes in Him may not perish". Now, what is "In Him". I now refer to Col 2:9 The [fullness] of the deity lies in Jesus Christ in bodily form.

 

[Marcus01]

Marcus, the Son of God is God also. It is Triune God, the scriptures don't lie Titus 2:13 just for starters.

Also Jesus calls Himself God in Mat 4:7. He is calling Himself the tempter's God.

Mat 4:7 are you kidding? He is quoting Deuteronomy. How the heck you think that is saying he himself is God with that scripture is beyond me and everyone else. Geez.
The triune god is no where in scripture. NOWHERE. God the Son is nowhere in scripture. If that were true it would be stated. Trinity is a lie of Satan.

 

[DHC]

Mat 4:7 are you kidding? He is quoting Deuteronomy. How the heck you think that is saying he himself is God with that scripture is beyond me and everyone else. Geez.
The triune god is no where in scripture. NOWHERE. God the Son is nowhere in scripture. If that were true it would be stated. Trinity is a lie of Satan.

Hello Marcus.

You made a rather ill informed comment and a comment that is contrary to the revelation
of the scripture.

God the Son is nowhere in scripture.

The 'son of man' is the exact image of the invisible God, it is this 'son of man'
that the scripture reveals. As for 'the Father' the scripture reveals very little
indeed, the one speaking through the scripture is the 'son of man'. The kingdom
of heaven and earth have been created for this 'son of man'. We live in the realm
that the 'son of man' created and for the 'son of man'.

Colossians 1:15
He (Jesus, son of man) is the image of the invisible God

Colossians 1:16
For by Him (Jesus, son of man) all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have
been created through Him (Jesus, son of man) and for Him (Jesus, son of man).

If you read the scripture and disregard anything that you have been taught. There is one
definite revelation that you will receive. The God of the Old Testament is this 'son of man',
and we exist for the 'son of man'. God the Father has handed everything over to the 'son of man'.
Our God is the 'son of man', please read the scripture very carefully and you will find that
'YHWH' is in fact the 'son of man'.

 

[Marcus01]

Incorrect translation on 1:16 my man. check it here.

Colossians 1:15
hos estin eikwn tou theou tou aoratou prwtotokos
WHO IS IMAGE OF THE GOD THE INVISIBLE, FIRSTBORN
3739 1510_2 1504 3588 2316 3588 0517 4416
pasees ktisews
OF ALL CREATION,
3956 2937
Colossians 1:16
hoti en autw ektisthee ta panta en tois
BECAUSE IN HIM IT WAS CREATED THE ALL (THINGS) IN THE
3754 1722 0846_5 2936 3588 3956 1722 3588
ouranois kai epi tees gees ta horata kai
HEAVENS AND UPON THE EARTH, THE (THINGS) VISIBLE AND
3772 2532 1909 3588 1093 3588 3707 2532
ta aorata eite thronoi eite kurioteetes eite
THE (THINGS) INVISIBLE, WHETHER THRONES OR LORDSHIPS OR
3588 0517 1535 2362 1535 2963 1535
archai eite exousiai ta panta di autou
GOVERNMENTS OR AUTHORITIES; THE ALL (THINGS) THROUGH HIM
0746 1535 1849 3588 3956 1223 0846_3
kai eis auton ektistai
AND INTO HIM IT HAS BEEN CREATED;
2532 1519 0846_7 2936

1:15 is correct Jesus is the image of God. But the image is not the original article. It is similar and just like. If you read my original post I explained this. AS far as 1:16 your translation in King James and all the others is incorrect. As you can see the original greek it is in Christ all things were created not by him. God created everything in his son and for his son. Never is Jesus stated as the actual creator. Jesus claims all throughout he of himself could do nothing and states the words he speaks are not his. This would make God a liar which he is not. Got created everything for his son. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. Jesus was born of a woman he had a mother and a father. The scripture states quite clearly God has no mother or father. Very simple and the bible states so.

 

[DHC]

Incorrect translation on 1:16 my man. check it here.

Colossians 1:15
hos estin eikwn tou theou tou aoratou prwtotokos
WHO IS IMAGE OF THE GOD THE INVISIBLE, FIRSTBORN
3739 1510_2 1504 3588 2316 3588 0517 4416
pasees ktisews
OF ALL CREATION,
3956 2937
Colossians 1:16
hoti en autw ektisthee ta panta en tois
BECAUSE IN HIM IT WAS CREATED THE ALL (THINGS) IN THE
3754 1722 0846_5 2936 3588 3956 1722 3588
ouranois kai epi tees gees ta horata kai
HEAVENS AND UPON THE EARTH, THE (THINGS) VISIBLE AND
3772 2532 1909 3588 1093 3588 3707 2532
ta aorata eite thronoi eite kurioteetes eite
THE (THINGS) INVISIBLE, WHETHER THRONES OR LORDSHIPS OR
3588 0517 1535 2362 1535 2963 1535
archai eite exousiai ta panta di autou
GOVERNMENTS OR AUTHORITIES; THE ALL (THINGS) THROUGH HIM
0746 1535 1849 3588 3956 1223 0846_3
kai eis auton ektistai
AND INTO HIM IT HAS BEEN CREATED;
2532 1519 0846_7 2936

1:15 is correct Jesus is the image of God. But the image is not the original article. It is similar and just like. If you read my original post I explained this. AS far as 1:16 your translation in King James and all the others is incorrect. As you can see the original greek it is in Christ all things were created not by him. God created everything in his son and for his son. Never is Jesus stated as the actual creator. Jesus claims all throughout he of himself could do nothing and states the words he speaks are not his. This would make God a liar which he is not. Got created everything for his son. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. Jesus was born of a woman he had a mother and a father. The scripture states quite clearly God has no mother or father. Very simple and the bible states so.

Hello Marcus.

Thanks for the reply #66, some folk post and then are not willing to go the extra required steps.

In your reply Marcus you stated the following;

1:15 is correct Jesus is the image of God. But the image is not the original article.

The real issue is
1) who is the one who sits on the throne in the Old Testament?
2) who is the one that we are in subjection to according to the O.T?
3) who exactly is the one speaking in the Old Testament to mankind?

Some folk are of the opinion that the God of the Old Testament is the Father (Jehovah)?

This is just not true, for if you read the Old Testament carefully this is what you will discover.

Ezekiel 1 (New World Translation)
27...There was a brilliance all around him 28 like that of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day.
That was how the surrounding brilliant light appeared. It was like the appearance of the glory
of Jehovah.

Now if you have been reading this chapter from Ezekiel carefully Marcus, you will quickly realize
that line twenty six says.

Ezekiel 1 (NWT)
26 Sitting on the throne up above was someone whose appearance resembled that of a human.

The 'son of man' is the one sitting on the throne and has the appearance of Jehovah (YHWH).
This revelation of YHWH or as you call Him Jehovah, is in fact the 'son of man'. Please read
these verses from Ezekiel and get back to me Marcus.

 

[Marcus01]

Alright now were gettin somewhere. Yes....the god of the old testament, who is he. This is a very easy one to answer. You know the god of the old testament gave a name for himself and he said it would be his name forever. Can you give me his name?

 

[DHC]

Alright now were gettin somewhere. Yes....the god of the old testament, who is he. This is a very easy one to answer. You know the god of the old testament gave a name for himself and he said it would be his name forever. Can you give me his name?

Hello Marcus.

You replied to my last post which is surprising.

You asked for His name.

The Hebrew name of God in the Old Testament, is the Palaeo Hebrew name,
which translated into English is 'YHWH'. This Hebrew name occurs thousands
of times in the scripture. If you wish Marcus, I can ask a moderator if I can post the
original, ancient Hebrew name. Then I will post the ancient Hebrew alphabet, in table
form, so that you can translate the Hebrew name into English yourself.

So when we read the following verse in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 1 (NWT)
26 Sitting on the throne up above was someone whose appearance resembled that of a human.

We know that the one sitting on the throne is none other than 'YHWH'. Because a line or
two later, this one on the throne is the 'glory of Jehovah', Yahweh, God, Lord, (YHWH).
We also know that God is invisible and we cannot see Him. But we also know that the
Old Testament prophets did see and speak with Jehovah, God, ('YHWH').

Please do not translate the Hebrew name and alter the letters or insert vowels into the
sacred name. We would be well advised not to alter the original, eternal name, 'YHWH'.
No one is 100% sure of the pronunciation of the ancient, divine Hebrew name, so we
dare not translate the name into an English sounding name, which some have done.

How would you like to hear someone pronouncing your name Marcus as 'Jarcus' or 'Yarcus'?

The 'YHWH' who sits on the throne is very patient with us, but I would not antagonize
the Almighty One, by uttering a mistranslation of His name. Try not to do it Marcus.

 

[DHC]

Colossians 1:16
hoti en autw ektisthee ta panta en tois
BECAUSE IN HIM IT WAS CREATED THE ALL (THINGS) IN THE

Hello Marcus.

Concerning the Koine Greek translation of (Colossians 1:16), the translation you
submitted appears to be in error.

Firstly Marcus, here is the 'New World Translation' of the first three words of (Colossians 1:16)

'BECAUSE IN HIM' (NWT)

'G3754 G1722 G0846_5 (NWT)

The Koine Greek is actually 'hoti en autw' or 'G3754 G1722 G846'.

But your translation cites G3754, as the first word and translates G3754 as 'BECAUSE'.

On checking the meaning of G3754, the correct translation is 'THAT'.

It appears your translation has used G3748(?) which means 'BECAUSE'.

So if you are at all motivated, please raise this error with the organization that
you attend and reprimand them. We have enough on our plates with abhorrent
theologies, we do not add to the chaos by tolerating faulty translation techniques.

Please get back to me so we can progress, Marcus.

 

[Marcus01]

Gotta go to work get back to you this evening

 

[RawScot]

Mat 4:7 are you kidding? He is quoting Deuteronomy. How the heck you think that is saying he himself is God with that scripture is beyond me and everyone else. Geez.
The triune god is no where in scripture. NOWHERE. God the Son is nowhere in scripture. If that were true it would be stated. Trinity is a lie of Satan.

Your forgetting while quoting Colossians Col 2:9 The whole fullnes of the deity lies in Jesus Christ in bodily form. Marcus, why are you saying Mat 4:7is beyond everyone else? This is you playing to the masses my friend and it's obvious Jesus Christ is talking of Himself in Mat 4:7, by the way the word Geez" defiles the name of Christ.

The Trinity is everywhere in scripture OT and NT. Do you not just think maybe it's just you and a few others that just see that instead "everyone else"?

 

[FiveFold]

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Again in:
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
In Rev 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Question: When did God die?
#####

Isaiah 9:6: And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counsellor,Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
“Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will name him Im·man′u·el,”which means, when translated, “With Us Is God.” Matt. 1:23
Thomas called Christ my Lord and my God, John 20:28.

Coll.2:9: because it is in him that all the fullness of the Divine quality dwells bodily.

Coll. 1:16: says of the Son, “For in him all things were created.”
Those who receive Jesus as their Saviour become “children of God” (John 1:12).
2Pet.1:4: 'partakers of the Divine nature’.

Only God can forgive sins: I, I am the One who is blotting out your transgressions for my own sake, And I will not remember your sins. Isa 43:25; Why is this man talking this way? He is blaspheming. Who can forgive sins except one, God? Mk 2:7. But Jesus as "Son of Man", had power to forgive sins: But in order for you to know that the Son of man has authority to forgive sins on earth—” Mk. 2:10
"By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness. Eph 1:7

Col.1:16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible

 

[RawScot]

Gotta go to work get back to you this evening

I hope you have a pleasant time at work Marcus. Marcus, consider this when thinking Jesus is not God orthere isn't a Trinity and I am guessing you are Jewish, if I'm wrong sorry. The letter to Hebrews was so that Jewish christian's wouldn't apostasize back to Judaism.

Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Now, look and see the word "Representation". This means Jesus is God, as it would say "Representative" if He wasn't God but He is the "representation", the radiance of God's glory.

 

[DHC]

Gotta go to work get back to you this evening

Hello Marcus.

Good to see you are still with us, hope your day was not too taxing.

The One and only True and Holy Name of Jehovah ('YHWH').

John 17 (New World Translation)
6 I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world

Jesus manifested the Mighty Name of Jehovah ('YHWH') to the chosen apostles of mankind.

There is only One Name that matters above any other name, make no mistake regarding
this most sacred name.

John 17 (NWT)
11 I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you.
Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me,
so that they may be one just as we are one.

The Father's distinctive name is Jehovah ('YHWH'), but Jesus was given this very same name.

'on account of your own name, which you have given me'

Then to clear up any misunderstanding regarding the true identity of the Christ.

'so that they may be one just as we are one'

Jesus will from now on, be referred to by the Only Divine Name above all other names, Jehovah.

Philippians 2 (NWT)
9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name
that is above every other name.

Jesus has The Name that is above every other name,

'on account of your own name, which you have given me'.

Ephesians 1 (NWT)
21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named.

I will repeat this important line 'on account of your own name, which you have given me'

Never again will mankind refer to an invisible Jehovah that no one has ever seen.

For they have seen Jehovah (the true Name) in all His Glory.

John 14:9 (NWT)
9 Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you
not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.

'on account of your own name, which you have given me'.

'Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also'.

John 14:7 (NWT)
If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him,
and have seen Him.

'on account of your own name, which you have given me'.

'Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also'.

'from now on you know Him, and have seen Him'.

Knowing Jesus is knowing the Father, seeing Jesus is seeing the Father, they both have the
same name. The apostles have seen Jehovah Himself, 'you know Him and have seen Him'.

Hebrew 1 (NWT)
3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being

As I said before, Jesus is the exact physical representation of the invisible God.

In other words Jesus is the visible Jehovah that the prophets saw!

Jesus is the 'son of man' in the visions of the prophets, the prophets were actually
looking at Jesus. Jesus led Israel out of Egypt. Jesus wrestled with Jacob.
Jesus appeared to Moses. Isaiah saw Jesus, Daniel saw Jesus, Ezekiel saw Jesus.
These prophets were not seeing the invisible, Spirit God, because the following
verse tells us,

John 6:46
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

So all the way through the Old Testament no one saw Jehovah (the Father). Even in the
visions it is not possible to see Jehovah (the Father). If you check the visions it was the
'son of man', one with the 'appearance of a man', a 'son of the God's, etc. Jehovah in the
Old Testament is the visible man on the throne of heaven and earth, Jesus.

Ezekiel 8:2 (NWT)
2 As I watched, I saw a form similar to the appearance of fire; there was fire below
what appeared to be his waist, and from his waist upward his appearance was bright,
like the glow of electrum

Ezekiel is not seeing 'The Father' because no one has seen the Father. Ezeliel is looking
at Jesus the 'son of man' who is the visible, flesh, Jehovah!

'Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also'.

'from now on you know Him, and have seen Him'.

 

[Marcus01]

Yes Yahwey Elohim is what he also was called in the old testament which means "He Is God". But the name that he stated would be his name forever is....
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hathsent me unto you.
Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover untoMoses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of yourfathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is mymemorial unto all generations.

His name FOREVER is The God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Forever is forever and it is true. Now look in the new testament.



Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

You see Jesus is not the god of the old testament he is the son of the God of the old testament. I mean I really cant see how it can get any plainer. You know we could just go on and on and on back and forth and you can disregard all the facts I am showing you and of course you will say I am not seeing what you are showing but in reality it will get us both nowhere. I will never believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was the God of the old testament. he is his Son of the God of the old testament and plainly is stated as the nose on your face. You can choose the simplist and easiest explanation on who Christ was and then go to the more difficult scriptures, which the ones you are quoting are the wrong translation or are spiritual and not literal statements. I quoted as literal as literal scripture you can get. There are lies all over the place with Jesus being God himself. And like I showed God cannot tell a lie. Also that no one has seen God at anytime (there are three witnesses to this). God is a liar if this is not true. You just ignore this and keep quoting scritpures that you are wresting into the meaning you want. Soo with this I think I will bow out of this and move on. I would be happy to sit down and discuss it in person but I just dont have the time to take days and weeks discussing online what I could solve with a sit down in an hour. You know what I mean?
Good Luck in your studies. however I think believing that he is truly Gods son is salvational. consider



1st John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.1st John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1st John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1st John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. Very dangerous!!!
1st John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Can you show me a scripture that says the same judgemental type statement believing that Jesus is God himself living as a man on earth? You will never find it. Its not true. Your calling god a liar that he gave witness of himself living as his own son himself and didnt have his own ownly begotten son a different created being inside of Mary, his own son born of a woman.

 

[FiveFold]

John 1:14 explains that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us". So since He became a flesh and blood person, it begs the question, what was He before He became a human being?
The one known as the man Jesus preexisted as God, coexisted with God and Jesus is God.

 

[james1523]

To believe that Jesus is not God, is to believe that Jesus is merely a prophet, as do the Muslims. Instead of arguing "is Jesus God" or "is Jesus not God" another way to prove that Jesus is God is to show, from the old and new testament, that in order to be saved, mankind needs a mediator who is both God and man, and that a mere "man-savior only" is insufficient for salvation. It would be interesting if someone did a Bible study on the theological and practical consequences of Jesus not being God. Such a study would show that without Jesus being God there can be no salvation for mankind, and that the believer who believes merely in "God" or "the Father" or "Jesus the human" would be no better off than a muslim, a hindu, a buddhist. If one merely believes in God or Father, then there is no reason why they could not also believe that Allah is God, because for them they have no mediator between God and mankind.

 

[RJ]

It would be interesting if someone did a Bible study on the theological and practical consequences of Jesus not being God. Such a study would show that without Jesus being God there can be no salvation for mankind, and that the believer who believes merely in "God" or "the Father" or "Jesus the human" would be no better off than a muslim, a hindu, a buddhist. If one merely believes in God or Father, then there is no reason why they could not also believe that Allah is God, because for them they have no mediator between God and mankind.

Again, I think it would clearly be a mute point: John 1:1-2

 

[james1523]

Again, I think it would clearly be a mute point: John 1:1-2

yes, a moot point