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Is God Really in Control?

Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
1,068
I believe the author of this article is Drew Neal

Is God Really In Control?

I could be wrong, but I think it was Shirley Caesar that sang it... "God's got it all in control, He's got it all in control. He took that reassurance and put it way down deep in my soul. God's got it all in control." She would get her SANG on... if you know what I mean. We used to blare this and many other old Gospel tunes in the house growing up as a child in the early 80's. I also wanted to be a black gospel singer sooo bad. Shirley Caesar and Andre Crouch inspired me. The only problem is that I'm white... lol so that obviously didn't work out for me. Sidetrack... now back on track. (one other note: It's amazing to see how our theology works itself out in our songs of worship, that's why we're constantly needing new worship songs to show our greater revelation of who He is to us as His companion) We sang this song because it's what we believed, but what we were not connecting with is that we were mistaking control for God being Lord over all things, being in charge. Having a great plan and executing His perfect will... thru people who also have a will. (Rom. 12)

Control and complete love cannot co-exist. Love is birthed out of freedom of choice. Control takes away options and leaves only one path. While sometimes this is exercised for good reason, its primary motivation is fear. Perfect love casts out fear. (I John 3 & 4)

Melissa and I have been learning how to raise our children in a freedom culture ("Loving Your Kids On Purpose" is a must read!), not a culture of control. I was raised with pretty strong conservative discipline and it worked with my behavior. I've turned out pretty good too, I'm a provider for family. Never went to Jail. I honor people of authority. I learned how to work hard. Growing up I said yes ma'am and yes sir. I never told my parents "no". Seriously... I don't remember a time I back talked to my parents growing up. It was never an option.

The only thing it didn't do, was unite my heart with my father and mother. THAT was a problem.

Love is the most powerful source that exists in human experience. It's the greatest motivation for life. Every person created on the earth is designed to desire to be loved. It's in our DNA. While many find versions of love thru many different facets, the reality of God's love with the most complete form is found in our revelation of Jesus and His character. Jesus was the perfect picture of love in action. His love towards "sinners" or pre-christians as I've heard it, the poor (in spirit and wealth), the business owner, the dejected, government officials and the sick are amazing. He understood how perfect love would bring their life in line with God's greatest intention of why He created them in the first place. Thru love they would discover who they really are and begin living that way. In the midst of living that way, all other behavior and desires would begin to align or fall to the way side. They were loved INTO living the life God created for them to live. The love they encountered met their greatest desires which in turn, changed their behavior. Jesus walked in this revelation between Him and the father as well. He had to exercise self-control over His own will to perform the will of God. God didn't make Jesus die. He loved Jesus into a place of surrender that allowed Him to choose to die. It was a choice of freedom for Jesus.

We have to die for freedom. We have to kill for control.

While my upbringing changed my behavior, it rarely changed my heart because control usually places emphasis on performance. It breaks the spirit and confuses the mind. It yeilds purely an external transformation. Control has a core value of performance and low value on what was happening internally. While I'm thankful for parents that had strong conviction (that conviction has led them into many new great places of freedom today!) and did their best to raise me to be the man of God I am today... this one element still plays into our relationship today at the age of 32. We have talked often about it and have had many healing conversations, but it's an ongoing journey of new trust being formed and hearts being truly open to receive from one another. We're in a perfecting process. Love offers responsibility with one another's heart while control never creates a safe place for the hidden places of the heart to be encountered. Every choice we make has to take in account the ones we love and how it will affect our whole sphere of influence. Love surrenders joyfully because it prefers others over itself. It believes that success however defined is something that is reaped not conjured or strived into. The bible says we plant and water seeds, but it's God who makes the plant grow. Notice that the plant needs to be a seed planted or "surrendered into the earth" before God ever gets involved. He asks for our permission every time because He wants our heart, not our "orderly" behavior. The cross already paid the price of our behavior.

The bible actually never says that God is in control of us. The only emphasis on control is found in Galations when Paul spoke of the fruit of the spirit. One of them being "self-control". How can self-control be a fruit of the Spirit and yet God still control us? Even when Control is initiated out of protection for those who don't know better, there needs to be a massive understanding of responsibility of equipping those who don't see the snares in their future and a willingness to guide them thru their circumstance. This will cost you something. Your time, your energy, your grace and more importantly... your love. Control costs you nothing. The moment we control them, is the moment they disengage their heart and their brain to think for themselves. This is how immature adults are raised up all over society and even the pervasive mindset of entitlement that has a stronghold on the next generation, it's all founded out of control.

We as Christians have used "God is in control" theology as a scape goat for a lot of bad decisions we have made. It's time for us as the church/christians to accept responsibility for all our actions. We need healing. We need to enter a perfecting process that the church can be trusted again. That love and freedom can reign.

God is in charge and He decided that Love would prevail over all things.

*****************************************************

I think this is a good article. Christians are always telling me of how GOD is in control. If that is true. HE's really not doing a good job. Too many things in this world are totally out of control.

Whatchatink?
 
If we realize that free-will is inherent in us (as designed by our Creator God), there is no struggle between "control" vs "freedom to love and to be loved".

God is in control of all His creations.
Including us.
However we are uniquely made in His image, unlike other creations.
That's where we get our volition (also known as free-will).

Without free-will, we cannot have a relationship that is based on mutual love.
That does not mean God is not capable of controlling everything, it just means that He chose to let us make our choices based on how close we are to Him.
Why? because he honors His own image.

To me, that is one of the reasons why our God is awesome.

:singing:
 
If we realize that free-will is inherent in us (as designed by our Creator God), there is no struggle between "control" vs "freedom to love and to be loved".

God is in control of all His creations.
Including us.
However we are uniquely made in His image, unlike other creations.
That's where we get our volition (also known as free-will).

Without free-will, we cannot have a relationship that is based on mutual love.
That does not mean God is not capable of controlling everything, it just means that He chose to let us make our choices based on how close we are to Him.
Why? because he honors His own image.

To me, that is one of the reasons why our God is awesome.

:singing:

So you advacate sitting still waiting on GOD to do stuff? Like coming against sickness, or depression, or poverty? How does that work with HIM sitting waiting for you?
 
Control and complete love cannot co-exist. Love is birthed out of freedom of choice. Control takes away options and leaves only one path.

Complete control exercised: and he saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the father but by me.

According to the author God is not loving but controlling. I doubt he will like God when he meets him. God is a control freak by the standards of men. It is his way or the highway in all things. You must stop doing your works (what is right in your own eyes) and do his works (what he says is right) or face the consequences that one receives for trying to be God when they are not.

In Jesus Name,

Gary
 
Complete control exercised: and he saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the father but by me.

According to the author God is not loving but controlling. I doubt he will like God when he meets him. God is a control freak by the standards of men. It is his way or the highway in all things. You must stop doing your works (what is right in your own eyes) and do his works (what he says is right) or face the consequences that one receives for trying to be God when they are not.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

As you wish...
 
The Lord allows us to have free will but He certainly has the power to intervene at any time and have control of any situation. He formed the Earth, He certainly has control of it. The Bible says that the devil is on a short leash. he has to ask God's permission to do anything, as we read in the begining of Job. Yes the Lord is certainly in control.
 
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The Lord allows us to have free will but He certainly has the power to intervene at any time and have control of any situation. He formed the Earth, He certainly has control of it. The Bible says that the devil is on a short leash. he has to ask God's permission to do anything, as we read in the begining of Job. Yes the Lord is certainly in control.

If you want to believe that....who am I to argue?
 
The Lord allows us to have free will but He certainly has the power to intervene at any time and have control of any situation. He formed the Earth, He certainly has control of it. The Bible says that the devil is on a short leash. he has to ask God's permission to do anything, as we read in the begining of Job. Yes the Lord is certainly in control.

Amen Julie.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

We have the choice to be obedient or disobedient, the detail after that are up to God himself.
 
Amen Julie.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

We have the choice to be obedient or disobedient, the detail after that are up to God himself.

Now come on kids!! Think! If GOD was in control, we would not have free will. HE gave us dominion in the Earth. So..basically its this way. GOD owns the store and HE put us in as managers. That way we call the shots, but he is still watching and teaching us how. ¿entiendes?
 
Now come on kids!! Think! If GOD was in control, we would not have free will. HE gave us dominion in the Earth. So..basically its this way. GOD owns the store and HE put us in as managers. That way we call the shots, but he is still watching and teaching us how. ¿entiendes?

If you want to ignore the clear scripture where God claims to work all things to the counsel of his own will, you have individual soul liberty to do so.
 
If you want to ignore the clear scripture where God claims to work all things to the counsel of his own will, you have individual soul liberty to do so.

So why are you ignoring the scriptures that say that GOD gave us dominion? Pot calling the kettle black?

It seems that there is a contradiction here. You say...I say....How is it resolved?

See? The scripture you referred to is
Ephesians 1:10-12 (Amplified Bible)

<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-29215">10</sup>[He planned] for the maturity of the times and the climax of the ages to unify all things and head them up and consummate them in Christ, [both] things in heaven and things on the earth.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-29216">11</sup>In Him we also were made [God's] heritage (portion) and we obtained an inheritance; for we had been foreordained (chosen and appointed beforehand) in accordance with His purpose, Who works out everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His [own] will,
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-29217">12</sup>So that we who first hoped in Christ [who first put our confidence in Him have been destined and appointed to] live for the praise of His glory!


GOD is talking about the big picture and you're looking at the little one.
 
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Scripture

See? In fact the entire scripture is...
Ephesians 1:7-12 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29214">7</sup>In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29215">8</sup>Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29216">9</sup>Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29217">10</sup>That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29218">11</sup>In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29219">12</sup>That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Notice...This is all one sentence.


The scripture was talking about JESUS


AGAIN You cannot take one verse and build a doctrine out of it.
 
So why are you ignoring the scriptures that say that GOD gave us dominion? Pot calling the kettle black?

It seems that there is a contradiction here. You say...I say....How is it resolved?

See? The scripture you referred to is
Ephesians 1:10-12 (Amplified Bible)

<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-29215">10</sup>[He planned] for the maturity of the times and the climax of the ages to unify all things and head them up and consummate them in Christ, [both] things in heaven and things on the earth.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-29216">11</sup>In Him we also were made [God's] heritage (portion) and we obtained an inheritance; for we had been foreordained (chosen and appointed beforehand) in accordance with His purpose, Who works out everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His [own] will,
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-29217">12</sup>So that we who first hoped in Christ [who first put our confidence in Him have been destined and appointed to] live for the praise of His glory!


GOD is talking about the big picture and you're looking at the little one.

The AMP bible is worthless.
 
See? In fact the entire scripture is...
Ephesians 1:7-12 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29214">7</sup>In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29215">8</sup>Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29216">9</sup>Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29217">10</sup>That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29218">11</sup>In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29219">12</sup>That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Notice...This is all one sentence.


The scripture was talking about JESUS


AGAIN You cannot take one verse and build a doctrine out of it.

In order to understand it correctly, we need to go back a little further.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Notice it is God the Father who it is talking about who gets credit for everything Jesus his son did, including the shedding of his blood. If the Father had not loved the world so, he would not have sent his son to die.

Why do you talk down to me like I am some kind of idiot?

Gary
 
In order to understand it correctly, we need to go back a little further.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Notice it is God the Father who it is talking about who gets credit for everything Jesus his son did, including the shedding of his blood. If the Father had not loved the world so, he would not have sent his son to die.

Why do you talk down to me like I am some kind of idiot?

Gary

Yup You're right It was talking about FATHER not JESUS. However my point still stands. What you said about "according to the good pleasure of his will" was not correct. That means you are still not proving your point about how GOD is in control in the Earth.

I'm not seeing you as any kind of idiot.

I do however get a little riled when people say GOD is in control. Wars, famines, disease, poverty, natural disasters, and the like would prove that GOD is NOT in control. If HE were HE is doing a lousy job of it, and that's what riles me. People blaming my GOD as if HE were an incompetent buffoon.
If we are in control, and the WORD says we are, and we wait for GOD to do it for us though, we are being very negligent in our duties. We are the salt of the Earth. We keep things in check or we just check out, and blame it on anyone we can.
 
What you said about "according to the good pleasure of his will" was not correct.

It says what it says. God the Father works all things to the counsel of his own will. It isn't the only scripture that bears this truth. You are animate about people crediting God for all of the things such as earthquakes, Tsunamis, hurricanes and tornados because you think we have power over this ourselves? God judges using these things. It is Satan who has weakened the nations and works diligently to force Gods hand to judge others. God pointed this out with Job, that Satan caused him to move his hand against him without cause.

I understand that you don't believe that God is in control when it concerns wars, famines and poverty as well but there are many, many scriptures that show that he is. He chooses not to heal or send food. Jesus said that there were many lepers in Israel during the day of Namaan but none were healed save him. Many widows but none were sent the man of God save the one. I give credit to God where credit is due. There is nothing impossible with God. He can heal everyone at once and provide more than enough food for all. He could bind Satan as he will. He could cause all disasters to cease. He could end all war. But he is not going to do that just yet. He is still dealing with fallen man. God sets the standard by which he chooses to do things. He said we must seek first the kingdom and his righteousness then we would receive what we need, conditional. He told Israel to repent and turn toward him and he would heal them of their diseases. He claimed to be the source of bringing nations against Israel for the purpose of chastening.

I choose to believe what he has said. He is God Almighty who is Sovereign over all. I do not side step the scripture that speaks about dominion over the earth. What I debate is just what that means exactly as defined within the scriptures. If you are willing to build a case that shows exactly what dominion man has, from the scriptures, without adding to what has been said, I will gladly hear you out. Those things that God has placed in our hands, he has done so without relinquishing his right to intercede in any event at anytime without warning or apology as he is God. He raised up Pharoah to show his power in him. It was God who rained down fire and brimstone upon Sodom as well as destroyed the world with a flood. To deny Gods power to control what he wants when he wants is to deny that God is Almighty which is what his claim is in scripture.

May the Lord bless you,

Gary
 
It says what it says. God the Father works all things to the counsel of his own will. It isn't the only scripture that bears this truth. You are animate about people crediting God for all of the things such as earthquakes, Tsunamis, hurricanes and tornados because you think we have power over this ourselves? God judges using these things. It is Satan who has weakened the nations and works diligently to force Gods hand to judge others. God pointed this out with Job, that Satan caused him to move his hand against him without cause.

I understand that you don't believe that God is in control when it concerns wars, famines and poverty as well but there are many, many scriptures that show that he is. He chooses not to heal or send food. Jesus said that there were many lepers in Israel during the day of Namaan but none were healed save him. Many widows but none were sent the man of God save the one. I give credit to God where credit is due. There is nothing impossible with God. He can heal everyone at once and provide more than enough food for all. He could bind Satan as he will. He could cause all disasters to cease. He could end all war. But he is not going to do that just yet. He is still dealing with fallen man. God sets the standard by which he chooses to do things. He said we must seek first the kingdom and his righteousness then we would receive what we need, conditional. He told Israel to repent and turn toward him and he would heal them of their diseases. He claimed to be the source of bringing nations against Israel for the purpose of chastening.

I choose to believe what he has said. He is God Almighty who is Sovereign over all. I do not side step the scripture that speaks about dominion over the earth. What I debate is just what that means exactly as defined within the scriptures. If you are willing to build a case that shows exactly what dominion man has, from the scriptures, without adding to what has been said, I will gladly hear you out. Those things that God has placed in our hands, he has done so without relinquishing his right to intercede in any event at anytime without warning or apology as he is God. He raised up Pharoah to show his power in him. It was God who rained down fire and brimstone upon Sodom as well as destroyed the world with a flood. To deny Gods power to control what he wants when he wants is to deny that God is Almighty which is what his claim is in scripture.

May the Lord bless you,

Gary

Do you really believe that a loving GOD would kill HIS kids just to teach them something?! Would you put your sons hand into a fire just to teach him something? Then not even tell him what you want him to learn? Can you honestly say that would be love? If you can then something is seriously wrong.
I know that you would not do this thing. Why do you say GOD would? GOD sends a tornado to tear down my house because I forgot to pray before I ate. Or GOD destroyed my health because HE wants me to learn something. What does HE want me to learn? Its a secret.
Personally Gary I think you're just spitting out words to see how they splatter, because what you say is not what the Bible says.

You say GOD judges using these things yet the WORD says that Satan does these things.
John 10:9-11 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-26491">9</sup>I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-26492">10</sup>The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-26493">11</sup>I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


GOD says that HE has come that we might have life. Sickness, wars, floods, volcanoes, earthquakes are not life. They are destruction. They are from the enemy, not GOD.



In the New Covenant GOD tells us how to get Life at least two hundred times. HE never once said that HE would make me sick to teach me something. HE said HE would chastise me if I got off track and went my own way. Chastise means 'to correct' not 'to punish' HE corrects with HIS WORD. HE corrects us with HIS LOVE. Not with a big stick.

I carry scars on my body from my earthly parents 'teaching' me. Yet in thirty seven years as a son of GOD I have yet to recieve even the smallest bruise. Yet GOD has chastised me many times. I'm not a quick study at all, and I often try to go my own way. Yet HE continually jerks me up short with HIS WORD. Not sickness, not earthquakes, HE's never burned my house down. HE's never hurt me in the slightest. HE uses HIS WORD. And I have to fall onto my knees before it.



What I'm saying Gary is that I believe you are listening to the wrong teacher if you truely believe GOD hurts HIS kids to teach them. HE doesn't even judge us because we've already been judged. JESUS took our judgement and died and went to hell for us. HE made us the righteousness of GOD in HIS anointing. Now the FATHER looks at us and sees only righteousness.



So if you want to totally negate what JESUS did for us......
 
gdemoss

Gary You need to understand something here. I'm a wordsmith. Most writers have the mentality that they have something to say, so they'll say it. If anyone has a problem with what is said, they'll just have to deal with it.

I'm never against you. NEVER. You're my brother in the anointing of JESUS. And covenant blood is much thicker than birth water. We're covenant people, you and I. Our covenant is with the Most high GOD through our Brother JESUS. So you can just take it to the bank I'll never think of you as anything less than a King and a Priest. We are of the same blood.
 
Control.

1 John 4:7-10

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and
everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God
has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might
live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God,
but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation
for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

If the Church had concentrated more on love than theology.
We would not be discussing this thread. He who loves his
brother in Christ is perfect.
 
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