Is gay marriage really that bad?

[Brad Huber]

Cant you see, that your (and those of the same nature) fears are based on what "Might" happen? Isnt those the same fears that consumed the germans about the way those pesky jews became too prominent and wealthy. You of course are aware of what those fears led to. History tends to repeat itself. Will you be like those faithful germans who oppose someone because of thier faith and what they "might" do? Or will you use your own logic to tell you the truth about what it is you are apart of? Its always been a choice, and christians have the same choice. Are you going to be a part of taking that choice away? For some there may be hatred toward thier fellow man, but that is NOT what christianity teaches. It teaches to hate the sin, not the sinner. Are you proposing we shouldnt hate either the sin or the sinner? Dont you see the moral dilemma there?

 

[Hekuran]

I think that the quality of responses so far has not been very high. The issue of gay marriage has legal, social, cultural, moral and religious dimensions. If we as Christians are to enter the debate, then we will need to address all aspects of the issues, not just insist on repeating scripture.

If we are to talk about our values in the public sphere, then we will have to make our case from somewhere other than the Bible, as the majority of people (in the West at least) do not accept the authority of God's word. I am not suggesting that we no longer use the Bible as our foundation, rather we should translate its wisdom so that our message can be widely understood.

A: The Bible says X
B: But I don't believe the Bible.

To take a less contentious example than gay marriage. Imagine a Christian business leader before a board of directors. This business leader has spent her whole career studying the Bible and praying about her role in commerce. That has had a profound effect on the way she does business - honesty, integrity, openness, respect for workers, fairness humility, concern for the poor and so on.

But she would probably not be wise to start citing chapter and verse to the board of directors. They want to know about the health of the business and the long and short term profitability. The businessperson has to translate the christian wisdom that motivate her into the wisdom of the business world. She must demonstrate that fairness, good treatment of staff and honesty are good for the health of the business.

Our contributions to the gay marriage debate should be along the same lines. Find some common ground and a common language with those that you disagree with and work from there.

 

[wayward_thought]

I seem to be having some trouble posting replys. Are there certain words I'm not supposed to use? Like aside from the obvious swears?

 

[wayward_thought]

Perhaps the appropriate respond to this would beto explain briefly why I have so little faith in the Bible itself. If you lookat the entire globe over the course of history it's plain to see there are manyplaces which are absent of the word and therefore knowledge of God. You willalso see that Christianity is not the only faith. If Christianity is the onetrue path to salvation, which of course you all claim it is, then there must bekey signs of this regardless of who you are or where you are born. Looking atthe mind and the spirit, I find it safe to say that within these there mustgreat evidence that the Bible is in fact, the holy gospel that it claims to be,if one only take the time to read and understand certain parts of it.

Now if I understand you are implying, as manyothers would tell me, to take a leap of faith. Dive into the Bible, accept Godas my God and Jesus as my savior and so forth. Many people do this and thenthey move on to understanding the Bible. The main problem I see with this, isthat if the Bible really is the holy scripture that it says it is, I should nothave to take a leap of faith in order to simply understand that the wordswritten there are true. To summarize, in order for me personally to take this leapof faith, I must be able to see a good distance into the water I'm diving into.

So what does this all have to do withhomosexuality? It's the fact that I fail to see anything wrong with it. I havemet several homosexuals. I see nothing evil in the way they go about theirlives that comes solely from their sexual identity. Granted that lust is infact a sin, even if it is a man lusting after a woman. If one of thesehomosexuals is lusting after someone of their own gender, I don't understandhow it can be gravely more sinful than the same lust that we all commit.

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[Hekuran]

I understand that perspective.

I would say though, that you do not have to take a blind leap before you can understand anything. Read the one of the four gospels with an open mind and enter into it imaginatively - the way most people do with a good novel.

You may be surprised that many of the difficulties that people have with faith today - what about people who have not heard the gospel, gay marriage, where does evil come from, faith or reason - do not figure all that prominently. But there is plenty to exercise the curious mind.

 

[Puddleglum]

Cant you see, that your (and those of the same nature) fears are based on what "Might" happen? Isnt those the same fears that consumed the germans about the way those pesky jews became too prominent and wealthy. You of course are aware of what those fears led to. History tends to repeat itself. Will you be like those faithful germans who oppose someone because of thier faith and what they "might" do? Or will you use your own logic to tell you the truth about what it is you are apart of? Its always been a choice, and christians have the same choice. Are you going to be a part of taking that choice away? For some there may be hatred toward thier fellow man, but that is NOT what christianity teaches. It teaches to hate the sin, not the sinner. Are you proposing we shouldnt hate either the sin or the sinner? Dont you see the moral dilemma there?

It was not only the Germans pre WW2. but it was the whole world that did look on the Jews as reprobate as did Moses as well, but we know their golden calf worshipers etc were responsible for all of Israels problems and it's destruction all through history and we have this lot working in the Christian world today, claiming to be Christian just as they did with the OT Israel. and it was this type of people who like a abnotches weed, take root and defile all with their sinful abominations.
Just remember the Jews were not nice to the Germans at all. as they tyred to destroy them, as they think of anyone who is a goy, as just cattle and if you were gay, the jew would kill a Gay on sight directly.
The fact is Christianity has foundations and it does not support Idolatry at all and Gays have an Idol. but Christians pray for Gays to come to Christ, we do not kill.
Nowdays the so called gays are a militant fascist army running around forcing others to bow down to them and their sickness just like a mongrel dog. and are a full on destructive force on our children today, with their insistence of their Political correct fascist gods. the worst of Hitlers mob were gay. and Hitler and Starlin forced there people with Politically Correct idolatry doctrines.
But nowdays PC is a Fabian charged attack, it's just like how Satan works and it's in this way he has destroyed nations and people totally.

 

[Brad Huber]

I tried to contact you by pm Puddleglum, but it would not go through. I dont like being negative toward my brothers and sisters if I can help myself, and if I feel I need to I prefer doing so privately. I feel a lot of anger coming from you. Was Jesus recorded verbally angry other than in the temple against the "MONEY CHANGERS" or the pharisees and teachers of the law of the day? Moses prayed that God would not be angry at the people when they worshiped the bull, he cared about them so much, that he stood up for them, despite knowing how they were. The money changers of today are the people of this world who trust in money and power and position and use faith as a mask. The pharisees and the rest of today are the faithful in words, but not in action. Sinse you cannot see into the hearts of men, do not judge them so quickly. Show the same compasion that Christ shown us all. When we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Swordsman4JC]

It's no secret that Christians around the world are in opposition to gay marriage. A lot of them quote the line Lev 18:22 "Though shalt not lie with man-kind, as with womankind: it is abomination." However Lev 11:7-8 says "And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you." So finally my question is why do modern day Christians eat pork yet protest gay marriage?

The eating of pork does not pertain to ones salvation, the laws pertaining to the ways of life, are examples for us today and how they lived and dealt with problems and such, we learn from them, but yet knowing it is still the word of God, it is holy. you can read in acts chapter 10 and you will find where God fed peter, and he did eat of the unclean things that where listed in the OT...., Jesus even said (matt ch 15) its not what goes into the body that defiles it but that which comes out of it, which was adultries and fornacations..etc...etc...

AS for gay marraige, it is a sin for a man to lay with another man, or women with women, it is sexual immoral (fornication) to do such things.

the scriptured also say that, that which God hath joined together let no man put asunder... what did God put together?? he put man and women together, not man an man, or women an women. and to those who do such things are more or less been turned over to a reprobate mind, the knowlege of right an wrong has been taking away,

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.



It was not Gods will for 2 men/women to marry, for they can not have children, that takes man an women.