If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

[Sue D.]

Those who are raptured up by Jesus Christ in the air - in a twinkling of an eye -- will be born again people. Those left down here will be those Not born again. Simple as that. Your very last comment about baptism. Are you talking about the outward baptism by immersion ? Or the inner action that takes place -- indwelling of the Holy Spirit - immediately taking place upon our heart belief and confession by mouth. The 1st one I mentioned -- baptism by immersion that is outwardly visible is Not a requirement For salvation to be really complete. Though it Is important to outwardly be identified with other born again believers -- sometimes it isn't possible right away and sometimes not possible at all. So it would not be a requirement For salvation.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Those who are raptured up by Jesus Christ in the air - in a twinkling of an eye -- will be born again people. Those left down here will be those Not born again. Simple as that.

That is so true Sue, regardless of denomination or any other aspect, born from above are saved, not born again are spiritually dead, and their father is the devil. Jesus's words not ours sister.

Your very last comment about baptism. Are you talking about the outward baptism by immersion ? Or the inner action that takes place -- indwelling of the Holy Spirit - immediately taking place upon our heart belief and confession by mouth. The 1st one I mentioned -- baptism by immersion that is outwardly visible is Not a requirement For salvation to be really complete. Though it Is important to outwardly be identified with other born again believers -- sometimes it isn't possible right away and sometimes not possible at all. So it would not be a requirement For salvation.

This is an interesting subject and one that has opposing views. But, the requirement for baptism in running water does not bring salvation, if it did the thief on the cross would have to be baptised before he entered Paradise that day with our Lord, he didn't have to be baptised in water so that rules out our need for baptism in water for salvation.

As we know, Jesus was baptised by John, called the baptist, though he had no sins to have washed away, that is therefore an example to us. But, it is not essential to outwardly be identified with a group. It is something done in a place of worship, but as discussed in the past, it doesn't have to be in a place of worship to witness the event. It can be done in a bath so long as there is one saved soul to guide them through it, from memory, another brother, Brother Paul, (not me brother-paul with hyphen) said he had baptised a person in a water tub at a farm.)

Baptism with running water is a 'symbol' to identify with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Water baptism is a public declaration of our promise not to continue walking in sin, this can be with one or more believers. Water baptism is a practical demonstration of our spiritual reality and a personal testimony that we have passed from the old sinful life to the new life in Christ.

Not a requirement for salvation as you state, Jesus conversation with the thief on the cross clearly shows this.

Shalom

 

[B-A-C]

It is of course possible the thief died before Jesus and wasn't under the new covenant.

 

[Samson2020]

It is of course possible the thief died before Jesus and wasn't under the new covenant.

The New Covenant was not in effect until after the death of Jesus, As the death of the testator is required for a testament to be in effect. Heb 9:16
The Holy Ghost would not be given until Pentecost. But if the thief lived with broken legs on the mend then it's possible he received at that time.
"Without the spirit ye are none of his" Begs the question if the thief lived until Pentecost????

John 19:31-32 Both that were crucified with Jesus had their legs broken as they were not dead yet. But Jesus was and his side was pierced to verify.

 

[Sue D.]

@Samson2020 -- the point of breaking the legs was to hasten their deaths. They suffocated faster. Once on that cross -- they died -- no question.

Another comment @Brother-Paul -- at first I was agreeing -- regarding the denominations -- however -- not all of them believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That He died , was buried and rose again bodily on the 3rd day. And That is an essential. And the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. Mary's being a virgin when she conceived Jesus.

 

[Samson2020]

@Samson2020 -- the point of breaking the legs was to hasten their deaths. They suffocated faster. Once on that cross -- they died -- no question.

Another comment @Brother-Paul -- at first I was agreeing -- regarding the denominations -- however -- not all of them believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That He died , was buried and rose again bodily on the 3rd day. And That is an essential. And the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. Mary's being a virgin when she conceived Jesus.

I'm glad your not my doctor as the breaking of a bone does not cause suffocation. And if you had read John 19:31-32 you would know that they broke their legs to get
them off the crosses in order to prepare for the sabbath day, and it was allowed by Pilate, so they did not die on the cross.

 

[Brother-Paul]

It is of course possible the thief died before Jesus and wasn't under the new covenant.

I'll look this up later brother, didn't the Roman soldiers come along to break the bones in their legs to speed dying.But with Jesus they said, he was already dead so didn't need to break his leg bones, this waste fulfil prophesy, not one bone would be broken.

Just seen further updates it has been discussed.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I'm glad your not my doctor as the breaking of a bone does not cause suffocation. And if you had read John 19:31-32 you would know that they broke their legs to get
them off the crosses in order to prepare for the sabbath day, and it was allowed by Pilate, so they did not die on the cross.

So true brother,

The breaking of the bones in their legs was to speed up the latter stages of dying, the reason being exactly as you say.

Once on the cross they would not come off alive, that was why we here the hypocrites chanting, he saved others but can not save himself, little did they know or understand.

Shalom

 

[Sue D.]

Samson2020 -- Normally breaking legs does not have that affect on the human body. However, we Are talking about the crucifixion process. They had to be dead to be taken off the cross. It was slow suffocation which was speeded up. The legs of both the theives were broken. Jesus Christ Gave His life -- guards pierced his side with a sword and saw that he was already dead.

 

[PloughBoy]

Greetings brother,

Just stepping back to the title of this thread if I may.

If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

If the church is raptured, in this generation, this year, this week, this day, those who are left behind will not just include the 'institutionalised church' as we know it.

The church, the ekklesia, is the born again, born from above souls, no matter what colour, what country, what tongue, whether male or female, young or old, disabled or able bodied. These souls, from any denomination are saved, those who are lost, from what ever denomination are lost, left behind, they will come before the Great White Throne Judgement at the appropriate time and receive their due sentence, eternal damnation.

Now the church, it is not the building down the road, in the village, in the city, that is the lace of worship, called church by the RCC, they used the word kuriakon which is not in the Bible anywhere.

The only church, true church, is the ekklesia, the born again believers. If there are souls going to a place of worship, who are not born from above, they are lost souls, the devil is their father. So when we talk about the church in which Jesus is head, we are talking of the ekklesia, not a building, not a denomination. The Church, the ekklesia, is the body of Christ, the spiritual stones, together we are built up with brothers and sisters worldwide who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, repented of their sin and have been baptised in water and spirit.

Shalom

Now you said this: "the devil is their father" so then what are they called?

 

[Brother-Paul]

Now you said this: "the devil is their father" so then what are they called?

Those who belong to sin, the world and the devil, belong to satan, Jesus said satan is their father, so they a son's of the devil.

Jesus said of Judas...

John 6:70-71 (NKJV)
Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"
He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Those who do not belong to Jesus, who are not born again, not born from above are always willing to follow sin and the world, they are prepared to do the will of the father of lies, the enemy of souls, but they would not believe the one who told them the truth!

We cannot have two father's, or two master's, we hate one and love the other. Either God is our father and we love him, or the devil is our father and we love him.

We are either children of God, or we are children of the devil.

Shalom

 

[PloughBoy]

Those who belong to sin, the world and the devil, belong to satan, Jesus said satan is their father, so they a son's of the devil.

Jesus said of Judas...

John 6:70-71 (NKJV)
Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"
He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Those who do not belong to Jesus, who are not born again, not born from above are always willing to follow sin and the world, they are prepared to do the will of the father of lies, the enemy of souls, but they would not believe the one who told them the truth!

We cannot have two father's, or two master's, we hate one and love the other. Either God is our father and we love him, or the devil is our father and we love him.

We are either children of God, or we are children of the devil.

Shalom

So what are they called? Speak up i cannot hear you!

 

[PloughBoy]

you got the floor!!!

 

[Samson2020]

Now you said this: "the devil is their father" so then what are they called?

John 8:44 Ye are of your FATHER THE DEVIL..........
Psalms 82:6 I have said, ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Interesting delimma?? Seems that even though they are the children of the most High they have been given over to disobedience for a time.
So "THE DISOBEDIENT"

 

[PloughBoy]

John 8:44 Ye are of your FATHER THE DEVIL..........
Psalms 82:6 I have said, ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Interesting delimma?? Seems that even though they are the children of the most High they have been given over to disobedience for a time.
So "THE DISOBEDIENT"

Now you know I am not going to confusion them anymore, I going to leave that up to you, my hands are full already.

the answer is in the text: Psalms 82 that appears a "dilemma" but actually it is not, but a form of presentation by Asaph in a "song". in relationship of God in Israel's view. I think you got if from there. From collective study of Israel as a "people" of God.

 

[Reba1]

I'm glad your not my doctor as the breaking of a bone does not cause suffocation. And if you had read John 19:31-32 you would know that they broke their legs to get
them off the crosses in order to prepare for the sabbath day, and it was allowed by Pilate, so they did not die on the cross.

IF you are using your legs to support your self so you can breathe not being able to do so would cause a quicker death.

 

[Reba1]

context matters