If God is all powerful and loving, why is there suffering in the world?

[hoghead]

Romans 1:18,19
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the Truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shown it unto them.

Does God desire His wrath to come upon us?
NO! His wrath is indeed come down from heaven; why? Because we still have not believed on the only begotten Son of God.

Lets go check out Jonah for a moment. Jonah was a chosen vessel by God, for God. Now, God sent Jonah to preach against it; for their wickedness had come before Him. And Jonah ran from God. Not only was Jonah in (grave) danger, but the entire ship. Jonah was thrown overboard and swallowed up by a fish and spit out on the shore.
Jonah cried against the city (Nineveh) and the people believed God, and the king believed. And every creature in the city fasted and prayed and repented of their wickedness.

Here it comes (Jonah 3:10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and GOD REPENTED OF THE EVIL, THAT HE HAD SAID THAT HE WOULD DO UNTO THEM; AND DID IT NOT.

Now, Jonah journey continues...
Does God bring forth wrath, death and destruction. Yes He does, Yes He will... Because of our own rebellion against Him; we must repent and believe on the only begotten Son of God.

Now, lets see what is going on in the world around us. Sinkholes swallowing people up fast asleep in bed, hurrican Katrina in New Orleans (yeah, there is no wickedness there). The entire city flooded, except for one little mound. Did the city repent? No, they built it again, and carry themselves to a greater destruction. And those who say they know God is building it back right beside them.
Japan (the giant wave)
Indonesia (the great wave)
Chili (massive earthquakes)
San Francisco (massive quake)
Mudslides engulfing and entire city.
New York and D.C. buried in snow (yeah, there is no wickedness in those places either). Right...

The lies are being exposed.
Wait we haven't done anything! Exactly, nothing.

Preachers at the pulpit continue to appease itching ears, it cost them money if they really preach God. Oh God didn't do this to you. Then who's wrath came down from heaven? Because of our own wickedness and unrighteousness He sends His wrath upon us.

God desires that none parish. How many little warnings will God send before that great and terrible day of the Lord comes back in vengeance and wrath?

They didn't listen to Noah either; eight people were saved by the water. EIGHT!

This time He will send FIRE. God is going to cleanse this earth again. And bodies lay dead so thick that the fowls of the air will feast upon rotting flesh.

Thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me...

Do you know Him?
He has not changed.
And since God has not changed, well we better be looking in the mirror at self. Be Christ like; He will show you the Way, the Truth and the Life, also.

Jeses did not fight back; He knew He had come into the world to be SALVATION unto as many as called upon His name and believe.

God bless us all.
Have mercy upon me Lord, a sinner. Forgive me for running away for awhile Lord. I know my life is not my own, it belongs to You. In Jesus name I pray thee. Thank you Lord for hearing me. Amen

It is true that traditional theology argues God is wholly immutable. But is that really biblical? In point of fact, there are about 100 biblical passages that speak of God as changing, for example, Gen. 6:6, Hosea 11: 8, Malachi 3:5-7. IN point of actual fact, the notion of a wholly immutable God entered into Christendom through the influx of Hellenic metaphysics, which enshrined the immune and the immutable. In recent times, alternative models of God have been presented which allow one to better appreciate that God is a synthesis of both consistency and also change. Indeed, a wholly immutable God is a totally indifferent God. Nevertheless, the church became so imbued in Hellenic standards of perfection that many Christians yet today state, without blinking an eye, that God does not change in any way.

 

[rag4aCrown]

It is true that traditional theology argues God is wholly immutable. But is that really biblical? In point of fact, there are about 100 biblical passages that speak of God as changing, for example, Gen. 6:6, Hosea 11: 8, Malachi 3:5-7. IN point of actual fact, the notion of a wholly immutable God entered into Christendom through the influx of Hellenic metaphysics, which enshrined the immune and the immutable. In recent times, alternative models of God have been presented which allow one to better appreciate that God is a synthesis of both consistency and also change. Indeed, a wholly immutable God is a totally indifferent God. Nevertheless, the church became so imbued in Hellenic standards of perfection that many Christians yet today state, without blinking an eye, that God does not change in any way.

As in Jonah 3:10, God also changed His mind and repented of the evil, that He had said that He would do unto them; and He did it not.

Why? God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way.

People are unstable and double minded, wavering to and fro; not God. But if the people will repent and turn to God...God will repent of the vengeance and wrath He said will come upon all the earth.

What works have we did that God will have mercy upon us?

Is He being exalted in your chatter? What do you seek? What do you hope to accomplish?

May the grace and tender mercies of God fall upon you and be about you. In Jesus name I pray. Thank you Lord for hearing me. Amen

 

[amadeus2]

It is true that traditional theology argues God is wholly immutable. But is that really biblical? In point of fact, there are about 100 biblical passages that speak of God as changing, for example, Gen. 6:6, Hosea 11: 8, Malachi 3:5-7. IN point of actual fact, the notion of a wholly immutable God entered into Christendom through the influx of Hellenic metaphysics, which enshrined the immune and the immutable. In recent times, alternative models of God have been presented which allow one to better appreciate that God is a synthesis of both consistency and also change. Indeed, a wholly immutable God is a totally indifferent God. Nevertheless, the church became so imbued in Hellenic standards of perfection that many Christians yet today state, without blinking an eye, that God does not change in any way.

It is not really God that changes. God spoke His Word that we have for us only once. That set the standard for men. In that standard there are blessings and curses determined by what men do or do not do.

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11

Men are blessed or cursed or both according to them because God's Word is already in place for every situation, for every decision that any man can make, be a good choice or an evil one.

 

[Bendito]

Wow! Please understand here, people, that it is not my intent to offend anyone nor is it my intent to insult anyone...I am totally blown away by all the spiritual nonsense written in this thread...Does no one believe the Word? It was given to MAN to have dominion in the Earth.
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

That creep Satan is under our authority....
Jesus gave His authority to His disciples...That's you, disciple! Each and every one of you on TJ.. You are a disciple of Jesus, meaning you are learning to be like Him....
Matthew 28:18-20 (CJB)
18 Yeshua came and talked with them. He said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son and the Ruach HaKodesh, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age.” Do you see it? Jesus said "Go and do" There the authority is given.
If bad things happen in the Earth, millions of babies sacrificed to Moloch every year (abortion) sickness and accidents, and wars etc...Is it Gods fault? Is it God punishing His kids? Is God responsible? NO! We are! We allow it with our self righteous prattle about how God is sovereign in the Earth when He gave it to us to care for....
I really wonder how God feels to have us blame Him for what we allow Satan to do to His planet Earth and it's inhabitants....
Its past time we woke up and started taking responsibility for what we are given to do...
Psalm 115:16Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
16 Heaven belongs to Adonai,
but the earth he has given to humankind.
Dominion is the right to make decisions and to rule. Dominion does not necessarily mean ownership but rulership.

That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.
That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.

God honors the choices made by people. By that I mean He allows us to have a free will and to make choices. We are not puppets or robots. Each one of us makes choices and then we must live with the result of our choices.

A question often asked by many is "Why does God allow bad things to happen on earth?" What they need to realize is that humanity allows it. God gave us dominion and with that came responsibility.

God does not change His mind.

ROMANS 11:29 GWN 29 God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.

PSALM 8:4-6 NKJ 4 What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him? 5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor. 6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,

Some teach that God makes all the decisions concerning life and death for humans, but God clearly says we are the ones who must make the choices.

That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.

God honors the choices made by people. By that I mean He allows us to have a free will and to make choices. We are not puppets or robots. Each one of us makes choices and then we must live with the result of our choices.

A question often asked by many is "Why does God allow bad things to happen on earth?" What they need to realize is that humanity allows it. God gave us dominion and with that came responsibility.

God does not change His mind.

ROMANS 11:29 GWN 29 God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.

PSALM 8:4-6 NKJ 4 What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him? 5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor. 6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,

Some teach that God makes all the decisions concerning life and death for humans, but God clearly says we are the ones who must make the choices.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (CJB)
19 “I call on heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have presented you with life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore, choose life, so that you will live, you and your descendants,

If you don't understand what Adam and Eve had, then you cannot clearly understand what you have. God never goes back on His Word. We still have the dominion God gave them because we are their descendants.

 

[Bendito]

Wow! Please understand here, people, that it is not my intent to offend anyone nor is it my intent to insult anyone...I am totally blown away by all the spiritual nonsense written in this thread...Does no one believe the Word? It was given to MAN to have dominion in the Earth.
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

That creep Satan is under our authority....
Jesus gave His authority to His disciples...That's you, disciple! Each and every one of you on TJ.. You are a disciple of Jesus, meaning you are learning to be like Him....
Matthew 28:18-20 (CJB)
18 Yeshua came and talked with them. He said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son and the Ruach HaKodesh, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age.” Do you see it? Jesus said "Go and do" There the authority is given.
If bad things happen in the Earth, millions of babies sacrificed to Moloch every year (abortion) sickness and accidents, and wars etc...Is it Gods fault? Is it God punishing His kids? Is God responsible? NO! We are! We allow it with our self righteous prattle about how God is sovereign in the Earth when He gave it to us to care for....
I really wonder how God feels to have us blame Him for what we allow Satan to do to His planet Earth and it's inhabitants....
Its past time we woke up and started taking responsibility for what we are given to do...
Psalm 115:16Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
16 Heaven belongs to Adonai,
but the earth he has given to humankind.
Dominion is the right to make decisions and to rule. Dominion does not necessarily mean ownership but rulership.

That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.
That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.

God honors the choices made by people. By that I mean He allows us to have a free will and to make choices. We are not puppets or robots. Each one of us makes choices and then we must live with the result of our choices.

A question often asked by many is "Why does God allow bad things to happen on earth?" What they need to realize is that humanity allows it. God gave us dominion and with that came responsibility.

God does not change His mind.

ROMANS 11:29 GWN 29 God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.

PSALM 8:4-6 NKJ 4 What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him? 5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor. 6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,

Some teach that God makes all the decisions concerning life and death for humans, but God clearly says we are the ones who must make the choices.

That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.

God honors the choices made by people. By that I mean He allows us to have a free will and to make choices. We are not puppets or robots. Each one of us makes choices and then we must live with the result of our choices.

A question often asked by many is "Why does God allow bad things to happen on earth?" What they need to realize is that humanity allows it. God gave us dominion and with that came responsibility.

God does not change His mind.

ROMANS 11:29 GWN 29 God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.

PSALM 8:4-6 NKJ 4 What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him? 5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor. 6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,

Some teach that God makes all the decisions concerning life and death for humans, but God clearly says we are the ones who must make the choices.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (CJB)
19 “I call on heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have presented you with life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore, choose life, so that you will live, you and your descendants,

If you don't understand what Adam and Eve had, then you cannot clearly understand what you have. God never goes back on His Word. We still have the dominion God gave them because we are their descendants.

I sure repeated myself a lot there LOL

 

[rag4aCrown]

Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Disobedience to God.

 

[hoghead]

As in Jonah 3:10, God also changed His mind and repented of the evil, that He had said that He would do unto them; and He did it not.

Why? God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way.

People are unstable and double minded, wavering to and fro; not God. But if the people will repent and turn to God...God will repent of the vengeance and wrath He said will come upon all the earth.

What works have we did that God will have mercy upon us?

Is He being exalted in your chatter? What do you seek? What do you hope to accomplish?

May the grace and tender mercies of God fall upon you and be about you. In Jesus name I pray. Thank you Lord for hearing me. Amen

My goal is to awaken people to the fact that God is sensitive, responsive, a synthesis of consistency and change. God has mercy on all our works, because God enjoys an unsurpassable direct and immediate empathic response to any and all creaturely feeling. God is the Most Moved Mover, not the Unmoved Mover of classical or traditional Christian thought.

 

[Bendito]

Wow! Please understand here, people, that it is not my intent to offend anyone nor is it my intent to insult anyone...I am totally blown away by all the spiritual nonsense written in this thread...Does no one believe the Word? It was given to MAN to have dominion in the Earth.
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

That creep Satan is under our authority....
Jesus gave His authority to His disciples...That's you, disciple! Each and every one of you on TJ.. You are a disciple of Jesus, meaning you are learning to be like Him....
Matthew 28:18-20 (CJB)
18 Yeshua came and talked with them. He said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son and the Ruach HaKodesh, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age.” Do you see it? Jesus said "Go and do" There the authority is given.
If bad things happen in the Earth, millions of babies sacrificed to Moloch every year (abortion) sickness and accidents, and wars etc...Is it Gods fault? Is it God punishing His kids? Is God responsible? NO! We are! We allow it with our self righteous prattle about how God is sovereign in the Earth when He gave it to us to care for....
I really wonder how God feels to have us blame Him for what we allow Satan to do to His planet Earth and it's inhabitants....
Its past time we woke up and started taking responsibility for what we are given to do...
Psalm 115:16Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
16 Heaven belongs to Adonai,
but the earth he has given to humankind.
Dominion is the right to make decisions and to rule. Dominion does not necessarily mean ownership but rulership.

That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.
That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.

God honors the choices made by people. By that I mean He allows us to have a free will and to make choices. We are not puppets or robots. Each one of us makes choices and then we must live with the result of our choices.

A question often asked by many is "Why does God allow bad things to happen on earth?" What they need to realize is that humanity allows it. God gave us dominion and with that came responsibility.

God does not change His mind.

ROMANS 11:29 GWN 29 God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.

PSALM 8:4-6 NKJ 4 What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him? 5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor. 6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,

Some teach that God makes all the decisions concerning life and death for humans, but God clearly says we are the ones who must make the choices.

That means what happens on earth is determined by mankind, not by God. Otherwise, God lied in saying that man has dominion.

God honors the choices made by people. By that I mean He allows us to have a free will and to make choices. We are not puppets or robots. Each one of us makes choices and then we must live with the result of our choices.

A question often asked by many is "Why does God allow bad things to happen on earth?" What they need to realize is that humanity allows it. God gave us dominion and with that came responsibility.

God does not change His mind.

ROMANS 11:29 GWN 29 God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.

PSALM 8:4-6 NKJ 4 What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him? 5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor. 6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,

Some teach that God makes all the decisions concerning life and death for humans, but God clearly says we are the ones who must make the choices.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (CJB)
19 “I call on heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have presented you with life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore, choose life, so that you will live, you and your descendants,

If you don't understand what Adam and Eve had, then you cannot clearly understand what you have. God never goes back on His Word. We still have the dominion God gave them because we are their descendants.

Psalm 8:5-7 (CJB)
5 (4) what are mere mortals, that you concern yourself with them;
humans, that you watch over them with such care?

6 (5) You made him but little lower than the angels,
you crowned him with glory and honor,
7 (6) you had him rule what your hands made,
you put everything under his feet —

 

[hoghead]

Psalm 8:5-7 (CJB)
5 (4) what are mere mortals, that you concern yourself with them;
humans, that you watch over them with such care?

6 (5) You made him but little lower than the angels,
you crowned him with glory and honor,
7 (6) you had him rule what your hands made,
you put everything under his feet —

I'm not here to post spiritual "nonsense," as you falsely call it. If you can't be respectful of what I and others have to say, you shouldn't be here.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Spirit do you confess Jesus Christ came in the flesh?

"Spiritual nonsense"?

Yeah, don't go there please.
God is Spirit.

Your lingo @hoghead is some foreign lingo that does not line up with the Word of God. There is nothing new under the Sun. Many have tried to derail our faith. Negative, ghost rider, you can not convert us to your babble. We believe in God. We have been through things for His name sake. We are led of the Holy Spirit. We have been kind to you, now your agenda is clear.

May you come to accept Jesus before great destruction befall you.

All praise glory and honor be unto God Amen

 

[Bendito]

I'm not here to post spiritual "nonsense," as you falsely call it. If you can't be respectful of what I and others have to say, you shouldn't be here.

Why are you taking offense? I said at the start that my intent was not to offend but to share my opinion.
Colossians 2:8 (CJB)
8 Watch out, so that no one will take you captive by means of philosophy and empty deceit, following human tradition which accords with the elemental spirits of the world but does not accord with the Messiah.


John 4:23-24 (CJB)
23 But the time is coming — indeed, it’s here now — when the true worshippers will worship the Father spiritually and truly, for these are the kind of people the Father wants worshipping him. 24 God is spirit; and worshippers must worship him spiritually and truly.”

You really need to go by the Word and the Word alone.

 

[hoghead]

Spirit do you confess Jesus Christ came in the flesh?

"Spiritual nonsense"?

Yeah, don't go there please.
God is Spirit.

Your lingo @hoghead is some foreign lingo that does not line up with the Word of God. There is nothing new under the Sun. Many have tried to derail our faith. Negative, ghost rider, you can not convert us to your babble. We believe in God. We have been through things for His name sake. We are led of the Holy Spirit. We have been kind to you, now your agenda is clear.

May you come to accept Jesus before great destruction befall you.

All praise glory and honor be unto God Amen

I don't use "lingo." If what I have to say seems foreign to you, then maybe that's because you haven't studied much in theology, church history, or biblical studies. Also, I don't put up with personal attacks such as this. If you object to something I have to say, you should provide a solid, rational rebuttal. Resorting to casting aspersion on my character or the character of you any of your opponents is a definite no-no in any intelligent Christian dialogue. It simply comes across as saying you really have no solid defense for your position and want to win by cheating and casting aspersion on the character of your opponent.

 

[rag4aCrown]

I don't use "lingo." If what I have to say seems foreign to you, then maybe that's because you haven't studied much in theology, church history, or biblical studies. Also, I don't put up with personal attacks such as this. If you object to something I have to say, you should provide a solid, rational rebuttal. Resorting to casting aspersion on my character or the character of you any of your opponents is a definite no-no in any intelligent Christian dialogue. It simply comes across as saying you really have no solid defense for your position and want to win by cheating and casting aspersion on the character of your opponent.

You didn't answer my question; spirit confess did Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

 

[hoghead]

You didn't answer my question; spirit confess did Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

It is not really God that changes. God spoke His Word that we have for us only once. That set the standard for men. In that standard there are blessings and curses determined by what men do or do not do.

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11

Men are blessed or cursed or both according to them because God's Word is already in place for every situation, for every decision that any man can make, be a good choice or an evil one.

Yes, it is really a matter of God changing. If God is sensitive, responsive to an ever-changing world, and ours us, then God is ever-changing. To be more exact, God is a synthesis of both consistency and change, as is any true personality. That' why about 100 biblical passages speak of God as changing. Malachi 3:5-7 is major example here. It states off by saying, "I, the Lord, change not." Many readers see only that statement and then conclude the Bible is professing a wholly immutable Deity, But this is not the case. We must read on. What the passage is saying is that God enjoys a fixity of will or purpose, and in that fixity, does not vary. However, rather than denying change in God, such a fixity of purpose demands a change. So we read, "Return to me, that I might return to you." That means if we change in such-and-such a way, then God will change accordingly.

 

[hoghead]

You didn't answer my question; spirit confess did Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

This is a wholly different question than the issue I was addressing. I was responding to the classical Christian dogma of a wholly immutable God. Maybe this is all foreign lingo to you, but this issue is a central one in the dogmatic teachings of Christendom and the Christian understanding of God.
Now, you have brought up he question of the Trinity. Is Christ Deity? The Trinity is rooted or strongly implied in the Bible. However, as the Bible is not a book of metaphysics, the Trinity is not spelled out or worked out in any real detail. That is the job of teh later Trinitarian formulas and great debates. The question of divine immutability, however, the issue I was addressing, is also central here. Is teh Divine that rules in heaven identical with teh Divine that makes its presence felt on earth? The anti-Trinitarians, relying essentially on Scripture, argued that Christ could not be God. Why? The Bible says that Christ suffered and changed. However, by the tenets of classical theism, a Christianized version of Hellenic standards of perfection, God was said to be wholly immutable and therefore incapable of suffering. Hence, to the Arians, Christ could not be God. Interestingly enough, the Trinitarians also were major classical theists as well and therefore shared the same view of God as he is in his own nature. Their solution was teh doctrine of the two natures of Christ, which is a fundamental dogma in classical Christologies. Accordingly, Christ consisted of two wholly separate, independent natures: a human nature, which was capable of suffering and change; a God part or divine nature, which was wholly impassible, that is, incapable of changing and feeling, hence, incapable of suffering or experiencing any emotion. However, this doctrine does create many problems, more so than solutions. One problem is that that bot the human and divine natures seem to be but parts of a larger, all-inclusive whole, which includes them both and transcends them. At rock bottom is the problem that the fathers used substance metaphysics. Accordingly, God was defined as a wholly simple, immaterial, immutable, nonrelational being, a monad. Then the fathers introduced the highly complex, relational machinery into this monad. The result was contradiction. I and other contemporary theologians have dropped substance metaphysics in favor of a relational metaphysic, which I feel provides a far more coherent doctrine of the Trinity. In short, if teh Incarnation is truly a revelation of God, then it reveals God's general MO with creation. I view the Incarnation as a powerful revelation or raising into consciousness of the fact that God is incarnate throughout the universe, which is best thought of, then, as the body of God. Now, I am more than willing to go more into detail here. However, if you are going to continually send me any more inflammatory posts complaining about my lingo, etc., forget it. I'm just going to assume you are not ready for a serious discussion here and simply ignore your posts.

 

[rag4aCrown]

This is a wholly different question than the issue I was addressing. I was responding to the classical Christian dogma of a wholly immutable God. Maybe this is all foreign lingo to you, but this issue is a central one in the dogmatic teachings of Christendom and the Christian understanding of God.
Now, you have brought up he question of the Trinity. Is Christ Deity? The Trinity is rooted or strongly implied in the Bible. However, as the Bible is not a book of metaphysics, the Trinity is not spelled out or worked out in any real detail. That is the job of teh later Trinitarian formulas and great debates. The question of divine immutability, however, the issue I was addressing, is also central here. Is teh Divine that rules in heaven identical with teh Divine that makes its presence felt on earth? The anti-Trinitarians, relying essentially on Scripture, argued that Christ could not be God. Why? The Bible says that Christ suffered and changed. However, by the tenets of classical theism, a Christianized version of Hellenic standards of perfection, God was said to be wholly immutable and therefore incapable of suffering. Hence, to the Arians, Christ could not be God. Interestingly enough, the Trinitarians also were major classical theists as well and therefore shared the same view of God as he is in his own nature. Their solution was teh doctrine of the two natures of Christ, which is a fundamental dogma in classical Christologies. Accordingly, Christ consisted of two wholly separate, independent natures: a human nature, which was capable of suffering and change; a God part or divine nature, which was wholly impassible, that is, incapable of changing and feeling, hence, incapable of suffering or experiencing any emotion. However, this doctrine does create many problems, more so than solutions. One problem is that that bot the human and divine natures seem to be but parts of a larger, all-inclusive whole, which includes them both and transcends them. At rock bottom is the problem that the fathers used substance metaphysics. Accordingly, God was defined as a wholly simple, immaterial, immutable, nonrelational being, a monad. Then the fathers introduced the highly complex, relational machinery into this monad. The result was contradiction. I and other contemporary theologians have dropped substance metaphysics in favor of a relational metaphysic, which I feel provides a far more coherent doctrine of the Trinity. In short, if teh Incarnation is truly a revelation of God, then it reveals God's general MO with creation. I view the Incarnation as a powerful revelation or raising into consciousness of the fact that God is incarnate throughout the universe, which is best thought of, then, as the body of God. Now, I am more than willing to go more into detail here. However, if you are going to continually send me any more inflammatory posts complaining about my lingo, etc., forget it. I'm just going to assume you are not ready for a serious discussion here and simply ignore your posts.

Writing another short story for some self exaltion, that I didn't even read, will not get you a response or a debate or a new convert. The thread is totally derail which is sad and you have not and I perceive will not answer my question.

Again; spirit do you confess Jesus Christ came in the flesh?

 

[amadeus2]

Yes, it is really a matter of God changing. If God is sensitive, responsive to an ever-changing world, and ours us, then God is ever-changing. To be more exact, God is a synthesis of both consistency and change, as is any true personality. That' why about 100 biblical passages speak of God as changing. Malachi 3:5-7 is major example here. It states off by saying, "I, the Lord, change not." Many readers see only that statement and then conclude the Bible is professing a wholly immutable Deity, But this is not the case. We must read on. What the passage is saying is that God enjoys a fixity of will or purpose, and in that fixity, does not vary. However, rather than denying change in God, such a fixity of purpose demands a change. So we read, "Return to me, that I might return to you." That means if we change in such-and-such a way, then God will change accordingly.

All of the so called changes are really, as I see it, God being what He says that He is to me or to you or to another person as a result of what we are and what we have chosen to be.

If in one human situation I curse Him while you in seemingly the same human situation bless Him He is one thing to you and another to me. This may be viewed as change and many will call it that, but the change is in the man, not in God.

"If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;

And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:

Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.

And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.

But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD." Lev 26:40-45

 

[hoghead]

Writing another short story for some self exaltion, that I didn't even read, will not get you a response or a debate or a new convert. The thread is totally derail which is sad and you have not and I perceive will not answer my question.

Again; spirit do you confess Jesus Christ came in the flesh?

Thanks for telling me you aren't interested in reading what I post. I know now not to address any more of your posts.

 

[rag4aCrown]

You have the spirit of antichrist.

You deny God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Yes I speak to the unclean spirit; get behind me devil, in the name of Jesus, you are under my feet. Amen.

God sends spirits like you so we "little children" can practice what God has commanded us to do. Praise the Lord God for it.

All praise glory and honor be unto God Amen

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

All this useless debate.
God changed judgment after seeing genuine repenting hearts.

What happened to the OP?
Man I have not been here in a while and decided to check out a email alert and I go to One thread and all I see is bickering and accusing one another and certain repeated posters dogging every one and exalting self.

Man I thought I missed this place. Wrong again.

@Bendito miss talking with you brother. Will be praying for you. Lol I think your gonna need it.
Blessings to you and @rag4aCrown and several which names escape me at the moment.

May you some how find a way to exalt His name and get some truth in deaf ears.
God Bless
Jim