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If God is all powerful and loving, why is there suffering in the world?

Discussion in 'Seeking Jesus' started by Chad, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. There may be some things we have not yet considered.

    When the disciples of Jesus asked him why a man was born blind they assumed there could only be two possible answers.
    They asked was it because of his sin or his parents sin.

    John 9:3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

    John 10:8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.

    The nature of God may not have been correctly perceived or represented by those who came before Jesus.
    Jesus hung between two thieves so perhaps those after him may not have a full understanding of the nature of God.
    The old testament claims God gave the the commandments but the new testament says it was given by angels.

    Jesus is the truth and the truth has revealed that God is love.
    God does not change because he is eternal.
    Eternal means "no beginning and no end,always was and always will be".

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    Jesus often referred to himself as the son of man and even though he was standing before them he claimed he was in heaven.
    That does not make any sense in time and space but it makes perfect eternal sense.
    Since there can be no change in eternity he could not have left.
    So what is more real,that which never changes or that which is here today and gone tomorrow.

    Luke 8:52 Meanwhile everyone was weeping and mourning for her. But Jesus said, "Stop weeping; she is not dead but asleep."
    Matthew 8:22 But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

    Jesus saw those we would say are living but he called them dead and those dead had their own dead.
    He saw the girl that we would call dead and claimed she was not dead but asleep.
    he was obviously in tune with a reality that we don't grasp.

    Romans 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    If Jesus said the blind man did not sin then Jesus must not have considered the blind man to be a body.

    Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

    We died and were raised up with him 2000 years ago.
    Jesus is the Lamb of God who was slain before the foundation of the world and that is reality.
    Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
    Love can see past the illusion of time and space to truth.

    2 Corinthians 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.
    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

    Jesus did not recognize the blind man in the flesh but in the glory of God.
    rag4aCrown likes this.
  2. Brother hello,
    This reply is all over the board and makes very little sense at all. You seem to have put scriptures together that do not fit to say something they dont. If I have totally missed what you were saying then please forgive me and show me. :)

    For example you wrote....
    (((Luke 8:52 Meanwhile everyone was weeping and mourning for her. But Jesus said, "Stop weeping; she is not dead but asleep."
    Matthew 8:22 But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

    Jesus saw those we would say are living but he called them dead and those dead had their own dead.
    He saw the girl that we would call dead and claimed she was not dead but asleep.
    he was obviously in tune with a reality that we don't grasp. )))

    Now then these two scriptures are dealing with two Completely different Senerials.
    One jesus is speaking By or With or Through Faith saying the girl is only sleeping.
    Then Jesus sent all those with unbelief and doubt away. Took who with Him ? Did what ?

    Then you compare let the dead bury their own dead with the other and Jesus was saying here...Follow me. Dont turn back and dont look back, Let the unsaved bury their dead and YOU follow me.
    Now then you claim Jesus was intune with a reality that we dont grasp....Yea it is called FAITH. Faith in Gods Most Holy Written Word to us.

    When we were born again we became citizens of Heaven. Our citizenship is in heaven. We are no longer from this world or of this world for we have been deployed here to share the love of GOD. God said to come to His thrown room of grace Bodly. So as we do our spirits are in heaven Just as Jesus spoke.

    God Bless my friend
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  3. It does not make worldly sense I agree,not much in the book does.
    I chose scripture that does not make worldly sense.

    We know all men have sinned but jesus said that neither the blind man or his parents sinned.
    Is it possible that he did not see a man when looking at that blind man?
    You could say that Jesus was referring to the condition of his blindness not being caused by sin but he did not say that.
    He could have said sin did not cause this condition but he said neither this man nor his parents sinned.
    Leaving us to wonder if he meant whether they ever sinned.
    Is it possible that he saw them as perfect and blameless?
    Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
    Is it possible he saw them through the sight/lens of love?

    How about when jesus said no man has seen the Father but you see him.
    Does that make sense?
    Is it possible he was telling them they were no longer men?

    2 Corinthians 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh;
    What do you suppose this means?
    How should we recognize them?

    Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

    rag4aCrown likes this.
  4. Super late, but it is fine. It's meant for both of us, and a "refresh" would be nice.
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  5. I do kind of get it. What about the things that seem so horrid?if God claims us as his children, yet we do stray, what is the point of breaking a person's "legs"? It'll just make them run further away.
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    Ellie likes this.
  6. Isn't God Amazing. Hang on He is gonna give you more.
    I love my Lord so much.
    God is Spirit; we have been made one in Him. I do not see the flesh standing before me, but hear the spirit that is speaking. Amen. It is an eternal thing. His heights and depths and.... have no end. God taking you to some deep spiritual revelation. Praise God, brother. I am so excited for you. Amen. All praise, glory and honor be unto God.
  7. I've been hanging on ever since God derailed my little logic choo-choo and sent it careening of a cliff.
    You know the journey,off the edge of the map where it's marked "there be dragons".
    The dragons are there because there is the meat.
    There are no dragons in the land of milk and honey,only lizards.

    The things Jesus said are so far from any kind of human understanding that we can't approach them with a carnal mind at all.

    Scripture has it that all things are new and all things are of God.
    All things work together for good to those who love God.

    Now if all things work together for good and all things are of God then that means nothing evil can be done to me without it
    working for my good.So that which seems evil to my natural mind can only be a temporary vehicle for experiencing the and glory of God.
    My job is to believe on the one whom God sent.How can I see any evil in my own life if I am believing on the one whom God sent accomplished that which he was sent for.he was sent that we would all be restored to the father that we would all be one.

    As for the appearance of evil in others that's up to me to decide.
    John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
    If their sins are remitted then healing begins.
    Luke 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
    Neither we or God created and maintain evil,but God has given us the power to heal the world.

    What created evil? That liar who pretended to be our best friend and told us he was looking out for us.
    The ego who fooled us into trading our true glory for death, caused us to our own power to create a convincing lie to imprison the sons of the living God.
    Now jesus has exposed him and the scales are falling away from our eyes and we will soon say."all this happened so that we might see the works of God".Then we will all wake up and say to the Father,"wow,I just had the craziest dream".
    rag4aCrown likes this.
  8. What exactly are you talking about here? Breaking a persons legs?
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  10. "Jesus Never said neither he or his parents did not sin. NO sir Jesus it is NOT
    BECAUSE of or his blindness is not caused by their sins."

    I am not focusing on the sin but why Jesus saw the tragedy as an opportunity to see the glory of God at work.I am trying to get in sync with his thought process.What was his judgement of this man,how did he view him.

    Is it possible he saw the man through the sight/lens of love?
    rag4aCrown likes this.
  11. Yes, my brother, all things are of God; and all good things come from God. Now, in the carnal, we look at a tragedy as bad or evil, but is it? Well, in the carnal it is; but did God not use that tragedy to bring more to their (spiritual) knees and CRY OUT ABBA FATHER. The goodness of God brings a soul to repentance. Amen. When one is crying out "Abba Father" things are not so good in our carnal life; tragedy has happened,
    Jesus uses carnal examples and blazed a trail for the enlightenment of spiritual manifestations.
    Hear with our heart, the spirit that speaks forth. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
    All praise, glory and honor be unto God. Amen
    Thiscrosshurts likes this.
  12. Not literally break a person's legs, but an event that is so traumatic that it permanently "scars" the person mentally. Why would God not intervene in that?
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    Ellie likes this.
  13. God will intervene in a situation like that - God wants to intervene in a situation like that. It is man who wont allow Him to. If you want God active in your life then you must live by Gods ways. It is as simple as that.

    Look back to God said YOU choose His way or any other way. If you choose His way then you will have to live His way. You can be born again and not crave His change in you and miss out on a lot. God decided a long time ago He would do things in this manner. So He spoke them into being. It will stay that way until He calls it done.

    It not only takes knowing His word but doing His word. There are a lot of things that hinder things even in the kingdom of God.
    God wants to be very active in our lives - He has set forth His laws or ways of doing things. If we refuse to do things in some area's then we limit Him other wise we could all get born again and live and say what ever we please and God would dive right in like a ssuper hero and save the day. Some times you have to simply learn to trust Him and praise Him in the storm. The victory will come.
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  14. Sister, PreciousQueen, all that has ever come before Him has been broken and damaged by this world, or people in it. God will heal, if we will open our heart to Him and allow Him too. It is our choice. May God bless this situation speedily. Amen
  15. It is necessary to break bones to build the frame anew and properly when it has healed in the wrong manner. Mankind forgot what happened in Eden or he never knew or understood. He healed in the wrong way [which was not a healing at all, was it?] even as a person with a broken leg healed without first having had it properly set.

    Notice that it was prophesied that the bones of Jesus would not be broken and when we see him on the cross they are not. His framework, his pattern, his understanding of God's plan was flawless. Ours, in every case of every other person, is not flawless, but very flawed. Each time we are changed for the better, something has been killed or broken in order to allow a proper growth toward God.

    The Baptist said it this way:

    "He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

    To increase in us, God must do away with our old ways of thinking and doing things. Paul spoke of putting off the old man's way and putting on those of the new man:

    If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
    That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
    And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
    And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." Eph 4:21-24

    The old man might be that bone structure that needs to be broken whereas the new man has a whole set of bones, bones like those of Jesus which when properly set should never be broken.

    Why do people have to suffer? Why do they need to change and how is it that God will change them?

    People suffer because from the start they chose to suffer. Even the innocent in the current situation suffer because too many people have been so selfish that they did whatever made them feel good in the present moment with no cares about who was hurt by it. Have parents caused their own natural children to suffer because of the parents neglect? Have the children of parents striving to do it right suffered because so many other people in the world simply did not care enough beyond their own personal comfort zone to do anything about it?

    Then the big picture: This natural world of ours is not the final thing. Scripture speaks of time for men with 70 or 80 years or even with 120 years, but what is even 120 years or the 969 years of Methuselah to Life with an end? If we cannot see beyond our short stay here in this corruptible flesh, we have missed the most important thing. Consider the case of Martha and Mary:

    "But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

    And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

    But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her." Luke 10:40-42
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  16. I love you, my brother, my elder; I praise God for you; may His Spirit continually be upon you. Amen
  17. @rag4aCrown Simply give God the glory! All of the good that we have and express come from Him. All of the evil that we have and express come from our own twisted ways.

    With God's help the evil should be decreasing and the good increasing:

    "...there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18
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  18. Luke 11:28 But He said, Yea rather, Blessed Are Those That Hear the Word of God, AND Keep It.
    Here we read Jesus telling us or rather showing us who are Blessed - They are the ones who hear and do.
    Hearing in scripture is far more then hearing with your natural ears. Any one can do this. No ! Hearing is hearing with your spiritual ears and then keeping Gods word or ways is simply applying them to your Daily Life.
    .......God is NOT looking for perfection - He is already perfect. God is looking for a willing to be willing heart. Obedience does not mean getting it correct all the time or doing it with out missing it. No not in Christ. All through out scripture you will find God speaking about willingness.
    ......if you study kings you will find that there were two kings that God had told to do something.
    1 king had a willing heart and messed it up But God gave him credit for it
    1 king did not have a willing heart but did it any way and did it all correctly and God gave hin no credit for it.
    ..........Please think on this........chew on it........pray about it.........

    Now read through Luke 6:27-45
    Then circle verses 46-49 and read them and think on them - see Jesus is referring to 27-45 in verse 46
    Now lets look at something.....

    46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

    47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

    48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

    49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

    Jesus is showing us that those who Hear His words and put them forth into practice stand strong BUT those who do not fall or get crushed or washed away. Who is behind the the fall or crushed etc ? God? NO WAY! It is the devil our enemy.
    Read the gospels especially Mark and Luke about the praable of the sower
    ......God is showing us that satan comes right now to steel, kill or destroy the word for the words sake. The devil is behind all persecution and temptations and so forth......

    Look at John 16:33
    These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
    1 we see in Jesus we have Peace
    2 we see in this world we have tribulation

    Think about it........Jesus is telling us that as long as we are in this world - we will have tribulations or trials and persecution and testing and so forth.
    God is not the one who brings these things nor does God sit around and decide what He will allow and not allow. NO! All these things come from the god of this world or better said god of this world system.

    Now then Jesus said in Him we have Peace and tells us to be of good cheer for He has already over come this world. So when we strive to be as Jesus is and strive to dwell in this earth according to Gods written word then we to shall be over comers.
    look at 1 Corinthians 2:9-16
    We have the mind of Christ - However it needs to be PERFECTED more and more each and every day in the things of God through His written word.

    Let me ask you this............In times of Distress and trouble, What Will Your Mind Do ? Stand on the Word ? OR Fall into unbelief and fear or even rebellion?

    We know Gods will for each of us is the same for it is His written Word. To fulfill His will for our lives we must learn how to dwell according to His written word. THIS CAN NOT BE DONE.....With Out a RENEWED MIND unto the ways of God and His word.
    Galations 5:16 AND Romans 12:2 AND 2 Corinthians 10:4-5

    Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God..........again Hearing is done with our Spiritual ears and we can NOThear His word with out applying His word for hearing with out doing is worthlessness and a slow death to your Christian walk.
    I will add this too....Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things Hoped for but not yet seen. Hope is not wishing or simply believing as we view belieivng in the english language. NO ! Biblical Believing is KNOWING IN YOUR SPIRIT and nothing can shake you from this knowing. Not the devil nor a doctors report or a collection bill etc. Any time you read the word Heart in Gods written word He is talking about your core being wich is your spirit man.

    I will end this for now but there is more to be said and shown AND now I am going to explain protical or Biblical conditions for that is what we have just been reading above.

    Yes Gods word tells us we have "Inherited" the promises of God and much more.
    The problem most beleivers make that cause them to fail is they do not grasp some truth here
    Gods word say His people perish from lack of Knowledge or wisdom or understanding ( Of His Ways )
    These promises and such do NOT simply go into effect just because you got your self born again. NO! There are conditions that must be met or kingdom protical or another words walking according to Kingdom law which is His word and ways. Gods way of doing things and not ours.

    Look at this simple example...........
    There is an old man who is preparing to go home to be with the Lord. He has made a will unto the young man that works for Him. The old man has left everything to the young man and the old man is worth trillions.

    Now then you can say this young man is rich for he shall inherit this wealth.
    Now it is useless to the young man until the old man dies and the will goes into effect. So then one day the old man dies and the will goes into effect. Yippie the young man is now rich and has anything he wants, Or does he ?

    Well it just happens that there are some conditions in the old mans will. See he was a God fearing man and knew that if this young man just got it all right now then it would not benifit him all that much. So this God fearing man has set forth conditions that had to be met. Now then the old man has died and the will went into effect and the young man gets trillions - but this money does nothing for him at this time and if the conditions are not met then it will not ever do him any good.

    It is the same with The promises of God.
    We must not only hear but do what is written in His word. We must strive to walk in His ways and be willing to change and do things His way even when they do not see to make sense. Remember it is not perfection that God is looking for but a willingness to obey and do.

    Things as simple as Mark 11:25 when ye stand praying - FORGIVE - IF YOU HAVE OUGHT AGAINST ANY - so your Father which is in Heaven - MAY forgive you your trespasses. This is not a sugestion or something we can chose to do or not do. NO! This is a direct command and when we do not obey this simple command then it is sin in our lives and we have become way side to this part of Hs word.

    Now all disobedience has consequences that we will have to deal with. Now for example unforgivness can and does hinder our prayer life and our faith and it ties the hand of God in moving in your behalf ot through you in this situation and others.
    So I hear, man James if you knew what they did to me then you would not ask me to forgive them - I am not but God is commanding us to and when we do it pleases Him and pleasing God is a GOOD thing.

    AGAIN God is not looking for perfection but a willing heart. So if you forgive them and then 10 minutes later you find your self mad and chewing on what they did - then RUN to His grace and repent and ask Him to forgive you.
    I had a guard at job I onced worked at. She was mean and dishonest and caused problems for many and got many fired. She thought she had me gone many times but God had a different plan there. Any way when it came to forgiving her - oh yea no problem and yet every time I saw her or her car or a thought arose it was anger and here come the words.

    Then I learned how important or vital walking in forgiveness really was and I got my heart right real fast and I was willing. Now then at first I might have had to run to Grace and go to God and say I did it again and I would repent and ask Him to forgive me and I was full of peace and then PRAY FOR THOSE WHO PERSECUTE YOU OR USE YOU. Ok but remember this is not a prayer like God make them change or make them come to me and apologise and so forth. NO! it is praying for them with blessing and love on your mind and in your heart.

    Now then at first this would happen 50 times a day and every single time I know that I know God was pleased and filled me with peace and was working behind the scenes and I had no idea. Over time it got less and less and less. Buying her a coffee or jumping in to give her a hand became second nature.
    Eveentually since she refused to change God moved in her co - workers and they stood up for me and in the end it cost them the contract and a new security company was hired.

    I said all that to let you know I have been there. I have proven it to be truth in my life and I know it works and when we live in such a way - God will move a mountain if He has to in order to bless you in the situation.

    Walking in Love is a command - you can not get offended and walk in love at the same time. You can not walk in unforgivness and love at the same time.
    I have ONLT touched a couple of area's that reflect on why some seem more favored the others and so forth and I did so for a reason. I hope and pray that some who are eager to learn how to turn things around in their lives will read this and look things up and pray about these things and meditate on them and water them and so forth.

    Every SINGLE BORN AGAIN BELIEVER CAN be walking victory to victory - you just have to learn how. As this thread goes on I will be posting TRUTHS found in His word dealing with just that. No I am not perfect nor have I myself arived there but I can say with no problem I am a whole lot further along now then I was a year ago in this.

    Lord God in Jesus name I pray that my brothers and sister in here will have ears to hear your truth and I pray that you would fill them with peace and joy and Love and usher them into a deeper understanding of your word. I thank you that you are not a respector of persons and that you can do more with little then any of us can with a lot. In Jesus name I pray......Amen
    God Bless
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  19. Romans 1:18,19
    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the Truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shown it unto them.

    Does God desire His wrath to come upon us?
    NO! His wrath is indeed come down from heaven; why? Because we still have not believed on the only begotten Son of God.

    Lets go check out Jonah for a moment. Jonah was a chosen vessel by God, for God. Now, God sent Jonah to preach against it; for their wickedness had come before Him. And Jonah ran from God. Not only was Jonah in (grave) danger, but the entire ship. Jonah was thrown overboard and swallowed up by a fish and spit out on the shore.
    Jonah cried against the city (Nineveh) and the people believed God, and the king believed. And every creature in the city fasted and prayed and repented of their wickedness.

    Here it comes (Jonah 3:10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and GOD REPENTED OF THE EVIL, THAT HE HAD SAID THAT HE WOULD DO UNTO THEM; AND DID IT NOT.

    Now, Jonah journey continues...
    Does God bring forth wrath, death and destruction. Yes He does, Yes He will... Because of our own rebellion against Him; we must repent and believe on the only begotten Son of God.

    Now, lets see what is going on in the world around us. Sinkholes swallowing people up fast asleep in bed, hurrican Katrina in New Orleans (yeah, there is no wickedness there). The entire city flooded, except for one little mound. Did the city repent? No, they built it again, and carry themselves to a greater destruction. And those who say they know God is building it back right beside them.
    Japan (the giant wave)
    Indonesia (the great wave)
    Chili (massive earthquakes)
    San Francisco (massive quake)
    Mudslides engulfing and entire city.
    New York and D.C. buried in snow (yeah, there is no wickedness in those places either). Right...

    The lies are being exposed.
    Wait we haven't done anything! Exactly, nothing.

    Preachers at the pulpit continue to appease itching ears, it cost them money if they really preach God. Oh God didn't do this to you. Then who's wrath came down from heaven? Because of our own wickedness and unrighteousness He sends His wrath upon us.

    God desires that none parish. How many little warnings will God send before that great and terrible day of the Lord comes back in vengeance and wrath?

    They didn't listen to Noah either; eight people were saved by the water. EIGHT!

    This time He will send FIRE. God is going to cleanse this earth again. And bodies lay dead so thick that the fowls of the air will feast upon rotting flesh.

    Thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me...

    Do you know Him?
    He has not changed.
    And since God has not changed, well we better be looking in the mirror at self. Be Christ like; He will show you the Way, the Truth and the Life, also.

    Jeses did not fight back; He knew He had come into the world to be SALVATION unto as many as called upon His name and believe.

    God bless us all.
    Have mercy upon me Lord, a sinner. Forgive me for running away for awhile Lord. I know my life is not my own, it belongs to You. In Jesus name I pray thee. Thank you Lord for hearing me. Amen
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  20. HI, Chad,
    Traditional or classical Christian theology certainly doe have in mind a God who is in compete and total control of absolutely everything that happens in the universe. This is especially true in the Augustinian-Calvinistic tradition. However, some definite problems emerge here. First, it is not truly biblical to assume that God has predetermined everything. A very basic biblical theme is that things have not at all gone the way God wanted them to. Another problem here is that of freedom. If we have some real degree of genuine freedom, then it is up to us to decide, God cannot decide it for us. Hence, we are not puppets and God cannot fully control everything that is happening. That doesn't mean God sits back and just allows freedom. God's goal is aesthetic, to maximize beauty. Now beauty means complexity, and complexity means freedom, things can be some other way. Hence, unless, God crated a wholly simple universe, one in which you couldn't even have a rubber fork or build a simple campfire, there is always the possibility of evil. That doesn't mean evil has to happen, jus that it is always possible. The same fire that warms you can destroy you if you mishandle it.

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