I want to intervene for one person already in hell.

[Sue D.]

@ KingJ -- it's true that in the Old Testament David was a man 'after God's heart" however -- God used David In Spite Of David's affair with Bathsheba -- putting her husband on the front lines of battle so he'd probably die -- and taking Bathsheba as his wife because she was available as a widow -- their baby is born but God takes him shortly after birth. Nathan , the prophet, approaches David and David repents. The lesson in all of 'this' Is that God can still use a person In Spite Of the big messes in our lives.

God does not see us as 'good' or 'bad' people. Yes, there Is Abraham's bosom -- hating or not hating wickedness is the the 'issue'. A person can hate wickedness, but still Not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Those who've died without accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior will remain in the 'sheol' side -- people in torment until judgement day comes and they are then put into the lake of fire and brimstone for eternity. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He went to hell and back up For us, in our place. But while 'there' , He took back with Him, those who Had accepted Him previously and They have been with Him ever since. Now -- do I understand how all of that happened? No, I simply accept by faith, that it Did.

Faith comes by hearing, hearing the Word of God. For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God. Not of works, lest any one should boast. A gift does need to be accepted by an individual in order to be their personal gift.

Upon re-reading your post -- I'm basically saying the same thing , but in a slightly different way.

Most important -- back then and TODAY -- Now / Today is the 'day' for a person to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Salvation is available for 'everyone' // 'you' and 'me' individually.

 

[KingJ]

Actually -- does God really Need our defending Him?! We Are to proclaim Him as Almighty God -- Creator of All. His omniscience means He has All Knowledge. Why would He need to limit His knowledge. We are the one's with limited knowledge. His ways are Not our ways nor His thoughts , our thoughts.

God IS Holy -- we are Not.

He does. It is why we are here. We are His ambassadors. He is a Groom wanting a bride. We need to think of ourselves as a good friend of God who represent Him properly to a potential bride. Proper representation of God is so important.

 

[KingJ]

God does not see us as 'good' or 'bad' people.

He does Rom 12:9. Good people hate what is wicked. Bad people love what is wicked. That is why they reject the light / Jesus. That is the verdict in John 3:19.

Yes, there Is Abraham's bosom -- hating or not hating wickedness is the the 'issue'. A person can hate wickedness, but still Not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

Not true. If a person truly hates what is wicked they will repent truthfully. Anyone who repents truthfully of sins will be accepted Psalm 51:17. You are speaking to people who say they hate what is wicked with their lips.

Those who've died without accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior will remain in the 'sheol' side -- people in torment until judgement day comes and they are then put into the lake of fire and brimstone for eternity. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He went to hell and back up For us, in our place. But while 'there' , He took back with Him, those who Had accepted Him previously and They have been with Him ever since. Now -- do I understand how all of that happened? No, I simply accept by faith, that it Did.

I think it is very safe to assume He collected all those in Abrahams Bosom. Those that were there would be those that truly repented. Truly hated what is wicked.

Faith comes by hearing, hearing the Word of God. For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God. Not of works, lest any one should boast. A gift does need to be accepted by an individual in order to be their personal gift.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you proposing God chooses people at random? Faith in Jesus is given, agreed. The sacrifice of Jesus is a gift, agreed. But it is a free gift given to the whomsoever will repent of their wickedness. In the OT doing such got you to AB. In the NT, you meet Jesus and are born again. Become a new creation. Nobody can say they have truly repented and not met Jesus!

Upon re-reading your post -- I'm basically saying the same thing , but in a slightly different way.

Yes I think we are. I am probably a little pedantic. But with false teachers all around us, we do need to think on our every word. The devil wants a blur of ''partiality'' to remain over discussions on Jesus. It completely nullifies the love of God shown on the cross.

I don't know how Calvinists like @povawiqe think they have good news to share.

 

[imsoconfused]

I like that you answered with compassion. There are so many deceiving routes of lies out here. It’s tough in this world. It’s very very hard to prove God to someone else. It’s easy to prove it to yourself, but when it’s comparable to believing that the world is a simulation. I cannot prove it to anyone else. I can actually see why they don’t believe me too. The simulation theory, I can’t disprove that either. There are many different things that people believe and it seems that there are no ways of changing a persons mind once they believe in something. I do like what you mean about David hating sin even though he still does it. So God sees us as Guiltless? And the guilt that we feel, is that just to get us to repent?

 

[Sue D.]

@ KingJ Actually -- no , we're Not saying the same thing.

The Good news is the Gospel unto salvation. A person believes in their heart and confesses with their mouth.

God is the only One who Does know who will accept or reject His gift of salvation. God has All knowledge.

Okay -- Christmas is almost here. So we present a gift to another person -- but until the other person takes the gift in their hands, they can't claim it's benefits -- I might be handing them a million dollars -- they remain 'broke' until they willingly accept that million dollars. If that person doesn't acknowledge that gift and accept it as theirs, it does them no good.

I can truly 'hate' the fact that thousands of people in 3rd world countries are dying of starvation, but I'm not necessarily going to send any funds to any organizations to help that situation.

You quoted Romans 12:9 A great verse "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil, cling to what is good. " And so is the John 3 passage.

Your post #82 -- God leaves us here in this world to share Christ's Gospel unto salvation with other that they , Too might come to Christ. As believers, we Do become the Bride of Christ and we'll be united with Him in heaven. We -- as a believer / son or daughter of God Are to be living a life that Does attract unbelivers to Himself. But it seems that you're trying to portray Him as 'someone' who really wants a Bride -- has a dowry ready for us kind of like a suitor nowdays. A guy wants to have a bride -- so he does everything he can to persuade her to join him. That's putting everyone on the same level. But we're talking about Almighty God.


@imsoconfused - - In John 14:6 Jesus is telling us that "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by/ through Me." A person needs to acknowledge their need For salvation because there are lots of people who don't feel that they Need salvation. They feel that they are living good enough lives to get to heaven by their good works their own good intentions. So -- a person Does need to realize their personal Need for salvation in order to get to heaven.

Then -- believe that God's way is the Only way -- through Jesus dying on the cross -shedding His blood on the cross -- dying For us / in our place -- and going to hell in our place and coming back to life on the 3rd day. He Did rise from the dead For us. He was the Son of God -- that's why He Could die on the cross / in our place/ taking care of our sins / and rise from the dead.

We Can share the Gospel unto salvation with others -- we're supposed to -- but it's Their decision as to accepting or rejecting Christ. We can Share -- but the Other person either believes or they don't. It's not really our job to convince anyone that God exists. Either a person accepts evidence OF God or they Don't.

And, yes, there Are lots of theories 'out there' as to how this world came to be -- but God's Word / book of Genesis tells us exactly how God did it. We simply need to trust in God's word to be 'the truth'.

Well -- through Christ's blood -- when a person Does accept Christ as personal Savior -- God Does see us as righteous -- justified by His blood -- just as if we'd never sinned.

The Holy Spirit will 'tug' at our heart to let us know that we've sinned and need His forgiveness. He's 'convicting' us of our sinfulness. So we will want to repent. And we Need to repent -- be sorry for our sinfulness and ask Him to forgive us. And He will give 'us' a real inner peace in our hearts when that has taken place.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@povawiqe

Paper money is indeed the mark of the beast, because of the fraud committed through it. It represents a false quantity, which is forbidden in the Torah.

The Messiah himself said,

So therefore every one of you who does not give up all that he himself possesses, is not able to be My disciple. (Luke 14:33)

Yeshuah answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:21 [MODIFIED-NIV])

When Yeshuah heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:22)

Looking at the man, Yeshuah felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Mark 10:21)

Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. (Luke 12:33)

Which is what the believers did by the word of the apostles,

They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need. (Acts 2:45)

that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. (Acts 4:34-35)

This hasn't changed. If you do this, you will save yourself the heartache of disobeying God by using mark of the beast.

Our Lord also said "If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

Now you can rationalize one verse over another, but what is the cost that you are willing to give for your Christ is really what is being asked. If Christ is not first in ones life, then He is not anything in your life. Still, the nuances that come into play here do exist and cannot be ignored no matter how you quote the Torah or couple singular verses together.

To give you point of reference. Who are the Apostles today that someone should sell all that they have and lay it at their feet as you have suggested Member Imsoconfused do? Without any point of reference to the times we live in by say your own personal testimony on how you applied these very same verses to your life, leaves anyone reading it as seeing the Scriptural truth, but lacking the "how to" necessary in applying it.

The times we live in are much different in many ways from the early church. Not in the personal characteristics of man, for they have always been with or without Christ Jesus in their lives. Rather, the learning/skills taught of what is required to live day to day are surely missing for most. The days of hunter/gatherer are not what they were. Even for the believer.

So, while Scripture is helpful to digest and apply to ones life. Direction on how this is done by one who is more learned would be of even greater benefit to one who is seeking to find their way in His Word. This method we can see is done with a love found in the very communications we find in Scripture between one brother to another.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[povawiqe]

@povawiqe





Our Lord also said "If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

Now you can rationalize one verse over another, but what is the cost that you are willing to give for your Christ is really what is being asked. If Christ is not first in ones life, then He is not anything in your life. Still, the nuances that come into play here do exist and cannot be ignored no matter how you quote the Torah or couple singular verses together.

To give you point of reference. Who are the Apostles today that someone should sell all that they have and lay it at their feet as you have suggested Member Imsoconfused do? Without any point of reference to the times we live in by say your own personal testimony on how you applied these very same verses to your life, leaves anyone reading it as seeing the Scriptural truth, but lacking the "how to" necessary in applying it.

The times we live in are much different in many ways from the early church. Not in the personal characteristics of man, for they have always been with or without Christ Jesus in their lives. Rather, the learning/skills taught of what is required to live day to day are surely missing for most. The days of hunter/gatherer are not what they were. Even for the believer.

So, while Scripture is helpful to digest and apply to ones life. Direction on how this is done by one who is more learned would be of even greater benefit to one who is seeking to find their way in His Word. This method we can see is done with a love found in the very communications we find in Scripture between one brother to another.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

If you wanted to know how I've done it you could've just asked, rather than discard the scriptures that say to do it. This is what I teach, which I've also done, when I chose to move to Colombia early this year after I sold my possessions,

Sell your possessions and all your properties, keeping only necessities, and choose to rent, as Paul did.
Acquire gold, which is the money the assemblies used at that time after they sold their possessions to cover needs.
Burn whatever paper money is left.

There are around less than 8 years away for the second coming of the Messiah. So its not a long time to endure this way of life in preparation for his coming.

After doing these things, and being in complete obedience to the Torah, and beginning to do good works by giving to the poor, then you may receive the airflow of God, which will free you from sin. These are the steps of deliverance, in practical terms to today.

 

[Sue D.]

@povawiqe -- for one thing -- Scripture tells us that no one knows when Christ will return -- Only God does and we're Not supposed to be setting dates. Maybe I shouldn't be asking this -- but-- upon What do you base your comment that the 2nd coming of the Lord is less than 8 years away.

You are Also doing a works based salvation which is Not Scriptural. Being in complete obedience to the Torah -- just isn't possible. The reason 'we' were given the Law was to show us how impossible it is To keep the entire law all the time, because just One mistake and we're guilty of all of it. That's why Jesus Christ came -- to be the Final blood sacrifice for our sins. He became the Perfect Lamb of God.

If a person chooses to sell their possessions except for the necessities, fine.

As long as a person is able to support themselves -- not becoming a pan-handler -- fine.

Acquiring gold -- some people Do. However, what form of money is going to be used to Pay your rent -- buy / possibly grow your food.

Granted -- a person's geographical location would determine how practical your ideas are.

You've moved to Columbia -- South America? That is your choice.

Burning paper money?! Well -- in some locations people don't use money --maybe using a bartering system.

And what do you mean by 'receiving the airflow of God' -- you've never explained that.

 

[Sue D.]

And there's nothing in Scripture to indicate that paper money is the mark of the beast.

 

[povawiqe]

@povawiqe -- for one thing -- Scripture tells us that no one knows when Christ will return -- Only God does and we're Not supposed to be setting dates. Maybe I shouldn't be asking this -- but-- upon What do you base your comment that the 2nd coming of the Lord is less than 8 years away.

You are Also doing a works based salvation which is Not Scriptural. Being in complete obedience to the Torah -- just isn't possible. The reason 'we' were given the Law was to show us how impossible it is To keep the entire law all the time, because just One mistake and we're guilty of all of it. That's why Jesus Christ came -- to be the Final blood sacrifice for our sins. He became the Perfect Lamb of God.

If a person chooses to sell their possessions except for the necessities, fine.

As long as a person is able to support themselves -- not becoming a pan-handler -- fine.

Acquiring gold -- some people Do. However, what form of money is going to be used to Pay your rent -- buy / possibly grow your food.

Granted -- a person's geographical location would determine how practical your ideas are.

You've moved to Columbia -- South America? That is your choice.

Burning paper money?! Well -- in some locations people don't use money --maybe using a bartering system.

And what do you mean by 'receiving the airflow of God' -- you've never explained that.

I base the coming of the Messiah in around less than 8 years because it is the latest he would come, because that will be the Year 6000 YB, "Year from the Beginning". The night only has so many hours, and if the Master told his servants he was coming in the evening, in the beginning of the night the servants do not know at what exact hour he'll come, but let us say 9pm has passed, now the servants know the Master was not going to come in the first quarter of the night, then comes midnight, now the servants know the Master was not going to come in the first half of the night, then comes 5am, now the servants know the Master is coming within the hour, because that is the latest the Master would come in the evening, that is us now. The reason the rulership of Yeshuah is for one thousand years is because it is a millennial Shabbat that is foreshadowed by the weekly Shabbat of the Torah, to thus fulfill a total of 7,000 years appointed for the existence of this heaven and earth, which is foreshadowed by God creating in 6 days then resting on the 7th day. Read more about this and why 2026 AD is the Year 6000 YB in my study, which adds all the genealogies and timelines of the scriptures to now, also correlating the times with the Shabbat and Jubilee years of the Torah What Year the Second Coming Will Be, the Millennial Shabbat of the Year 6000 YB, Jubilees, and the 1290+1335 Days of Daniel | Wisdom of God .

Next, deliverance is never works based, because all things are predestined by God, not because works are not necessary. Meaning God has already predestined who he will deliver from before the foundation of the earth, which is why it is not of works that we are delivered, it is merely by having been chosen by God that anyone is appointed to be delivered, and in the case of those who are indeed chosen, it is evident with good works, because someone who is chosen would've been drawn to God, lowered himself, repented, and begun to perform good works.

Complete obedience to the Torah is indeed possible, even without being freed from sin, which is why Noah was called perfect in his generations, and even Paul called himself perfect in accordance to the Torah. Even David was considered perfect according to Torah, except in 2 instances in his entire life where he sinned. These were men that were righteous, which puts to shame many people today who call themselves believers of Yeshuah yet are full of lawlessness, and excuse their lawlessness by saying, "well its impossible for us to stop sinning, so God will continue forgiving us". That is not true, unless you stop sinning completely, you cannot be delivered.

Next, gold can buy supplies and pay rent, if you've clever enough to persuade people to accept your gold. Be gentle as doves, but wise as serpents. I'd also recommend paying rent for months in advance if you're able to, by the year, and in that way, make receiving your gold as payment more attractive to landlords. Its also meant to be difficult, to test our endurance as believers who are obedient to the commandments of God in his Torah, so don't expect many people to accept your gold.

And yes, you must burn whatever paper money is left after you've lowered yourself and acquired gold and made necessary preparations to live off your gold and also from whatever provisions God will indeed provide through belief should needs arise. You must also destroy debit cards and credit cards. You must walk away from the financial system completely. Walk away from all debts as well, mortgages, credit cards, autoloans. We are in a Shabbat year, your debts are forgiven, walk away.

Receiving the airflow of God means receiving an angel of God that has transformed into the form of airflow, and enters the body through the airflow of the nostrils, to inhabit your body, free you from sin, guide you, comfort you, and thus be the guarantee of your deliverance, the seal of God. If you do not receive the airflow of God, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[povawiqe]

And there's nothing in Scripture to indicate that paper money is the mark of the beast.

Let me explain something to you so you can open your eyes,

Fiat currency is the mark of the beast, because in its two primary forms, paper money, which is the "name of the beast", and digital money, which is the "number of the name", constitute the biggest fraud that has ever happened in the history of humanity, because through fiat currency is how bankers cause inflation, because fiat currency has no intrinsic value of its own, except what the bankers say its value is, because it is paper and mere numbers on a computer, which is not how the ancients traded before, using real currency, gold and silver, which have intrinsic value of their own. And through the inflation the bankers cause, the inhabitants of the earth become poorer as their money becomes worth less day by day and their incomes lag behind inflation, causing them to need to borrow to acquire the same things men 100 years acquired easily without debt, thus causing the inhabitants of the earth to become enslaved to the bankers, through debt, "receive a mark on their forehead", which symbolizes being owned by the one issuing the fiat currency, the banks. This whole entire system is prohibited in the Torah, through the commands of not using false weights and quantities, which are all an abomination to God. And because of the evil that exists in the system, those who use this currency deserve the curse written in the book of Revelation of those who use it, because they are just as guilty as the bankers who issue it, because fiat currencies also only function by the mutual consent of the people who is it.

 

[Sue D.]

Your very last sentence in post 90 is totally Not Scriptural. Don't know where you get that -- but it's Not Biblical. About the 'airflow' thing.

Apparently you're some sort of Jewishness.

And your basis for the coming of the Messiah -- No.

I'm going to bow out of the conversation.

Merry Christmas.

 

[povawiqe]

Your very last sentence in post 90 is totally Not Scriptural. Don't know where you get that -- but it's Not Biblical. About the 'airflow' thing.

Apparently you're some sort of Jewishness.

And your basis for the coming of the Messiah -- No.

I'm going to bow out of the conversation.

Merry Christmas.

That's because you have been deceived by the man I have identified as the antichrist, the Roman pope. Not only is his paper money issued through his system of banks false, but his teachings concerning the trinity are also false. You reject my words to your own demise, because I am telling you the truth. But so be it. Many are called, few are chosen.

 

[Sue D.]

The Biblical trinity --- God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I'm Not Roman Catholic. I'm conservative Baptist.

Jesus Christ tells us in John 14:6 "I am the way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father, but by Me." Jesus Christ is talking.

Your comment concerning the 'air flow' is Not Biblical -- so there fore You are in error.

 

[povawiqe]

The Biblical trinity --- God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I'm Not Roman Catholic. I'm conservative Baptist.

Jesus Christ tells us in John 14:6 "I am the way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father, but by Me." Jesus Christ is talking.

Your comment concerning the 'air flow' is Not Biblical -- so there fore You are in error.

The Greek word "pneuma" means airflow, as well as the Hebrew word "ruach". It is the airflow of life that gave life to man, and it is through airflow that we are given life to a new body, this is why there is a Psalm that reads, "he makes his angels into airflows", for the body of airflow of an angel is then set apart from ordinary airflows that are not alive, "set-apart airflow", which is translated as holy spirit in English. And once the set-apart airflow enters the body, he sets apart the body, and frees it from sin. If you do not receive the set-apart airflow, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Sue D.]

When God created Adam -- He breathed into him the breath of life and Adam became a living soul.

There are 150 Psalms -- to which one are you referring.

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as personal Savior -- the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person and stays with him/ her until the person is with Jesus Christ. The blood of Jesus Christ sets a person free from sin. There's a song that says "What can wash away my sins, nothing but the blood of Jesus" "What can make me whole again, nothing but the blood of Jesus."

Angels are angels -- they're not made into anything.

 

[Sue D.]

You have just enough Scripture correct to make your beliefs sound plausible. But you have some errors / misconceptions mixed in. And your referring to the trinity as untruthful is simply Not Scriptural. So therefore.

 

[KingJ]

I like that you answered with compassion. There are so many deceiving routes of lies out here. It’s tough in this world. It’s very very hard to prove God to someone else. It’s easy to prove it to yourself, but when it’s comparable to believing that the world is a simulation. I cannot prove it to anyone else. I can actually see why they don’t believe me too. The simulation theory, I can’t disprove that either.

Yes agreed. I believe the natural mind cannot fully grasp the truthfulness of true free will. They take God as all knowing and all powerful and then assume they are either lucky for heaven or unlucky for hell. They grasp they have freedom right now to move around. But further thought convinces them that it is fake freedom.

We need to meditate on Acts 10:34 Of a truth I perceive, God is no respecter of persons. This is Peter speaking. The only disciple who had enough faith to walk on water. He grasped something he did previously not grasp.

Earth is not a simulation. There is true randomness in our decisions and true free will for all. It requires a better understanding of God to grasp this. For me the million dollar phrase is ''God is as good as He is great''. He is incapable of evil. No free will is evil. So, the creation of an intelligent creation by a good God can only be accompanied with true free will. Angels and humans have it. The devil is evidence of true free will.

There are many different things that people believe and it seems that there are no ways of changing a persons mind once they believe in something.

We have to try. As Christians we have ''one'' job. That is to properly represent God to others. We better pray for help on this. We do not want to be guilty of miss-representing Him.

I do like what you mean about David hating sin even though he still does it.

Paul speaks of this in Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

So God sees us as Guiltless? And the guilt that we feel, is that just to get us to repent?

Guilt we feel is evidence of a 'working brain / our intelligence level'. Mankind is accountable for their sin because of this. God does not see any of us a guiltless. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

He only sees a difference between the person that hates what is evil and the person that does not.

 

[KingJ]

““Yeah but i mean come on now ... this is also what the Torah says. Deuteromy 21:10-13 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God hands them over to you and you take some of them prisoner, and if you see a beautiful woman among the captives, desire her, and want to take her as your wife, you are to bring her into your house. She must shave her head, trim her nails, remove the clothes she was wearing when she was taken prisoner, live in your house, and mourn for her father and mother a full month. After that, you may have sexual relations with her and be her husband, and she will be your wife.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:10-13

I have to respond to this as this passage is one of the most common passages quoted on God bashing sites. It clearly highlights the risk of cherry picking.

Capital punishment was enforced on many sexual crimes. The context of this verse is to take them in and look after them. If you want to be with them, marry them. Jewish marriage entails both parties accepting. Deut speaks of any slave being able to leave at any time and the new master being punished if he reports it.

If there was ''rape'' that person would be stoned to death. The people around the Jews did not enforce capital punishment on rape of Jewish prisoners!

The Jews were the only society to not rape and pillage.

 

[KingJ]

@ KingJ Actually -- no , we're Not saying the same thing.
The Good news is the Gospel unto salvation. A person believes in their heart and confesses with their mouth.

You have the cart before the horse.

Confessing Jesus as Lord is only possible if we speaking with the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

It is a revelation given to us by God. As it was to Peter Matt 16:16-17. Give only after we have been judged Jer 17:9-10.

We only pass judgement if our heart is after God's. Like Him, also desirous of hating what is wicked James 4:8. Note how Rom 12:9 starts with 'genuine love' is to hate what is evil.

So John 3:16, can only be a reality for us if we have been judged and given the faith to believe Jesus is Lord, via the Holy Spirit.

We can believe in our heart and mind all we want. Many believe they believe in Jesus. Many confess He is Lord with their mouths. But God would say of them 'I do not know you' Matt 7:22. We can brainwash ourselves. We can say we believe Jesus is Lord, but not actually believe He is Lord. We can say our heart is sincere and believe Jesus in our hearts / believe God talks to us. But reality can be something else. This is why Paul's teaching is full of warnings and instructions on harsh self judgement.

I have explained the technicalities here. In a gospel message we don't need to do this. We can and should just preach John 3:16. That is where I can agree with you.

Okay -- Christmas is almost here. So we present a gift to another person -- but until the other person takes the gift in their hands, they can't claim it's benefits -- I might be handing them a million dollars -- they remain 'broke' until they willingly accept that million dollars. If that person doesn't acknowledge that gift and accept it as theirs, it does them no good.

This explains an aspect of salvation. It is not an all encompassing truth.

Rev 3:20 says Jesus is knocking at the door. You are making the point that we either open or don't. Agreed. But I re-iterate, Jesus is knocking at the door. Not Santa Claus. Santa Claus gives you a gift and leaves. Jesus, does not come in unless you give Him the keys to your house. In order to do this you have to want Him to have the keys to your house. You have to want to hate what is evil.

A side note. Paul, Moses, Abraham all could have rejected Jesus just as Pharaoh did. Many say well if God appeared to me I would serve Him. No. That is not true.